I've seen a few of these builds floating around this forum, and i decided to make one myself. This is a deck that I want to be able to switch easily from burn to beatdown during a match. I haven't play tested yet, and it's still in its infancy:
Alright, some of these choices are obvious and some are not. The beatsticks are absolutely necessary, although I might switch out loxodon for watchwolf, simply because i want a low mana curve.
firemane angel - smashes face! gains me life for searing meditation. although, it's a dead card early game.
orzhov guildmage - the "gain 1 life" ability sets off searing meditation. and, it's a beatstick.
spirit link - I know this is a ***** card, but I think it works here. Gains me life early game so i don't get killed, and sets off the meditation/tamanoa machine.
Cards i'm considering:
watchwolf (see above) moldervine cloak - although it doesn't really help with the synergy of this deck, it's just too badass of a card not to consider.
Everything else should be pretty obvious. comments and criticisms would be greatly appreciated.
Okay, so orzhov guildmage has got to go. His ability is too much mana to be effective, and his 2 W mana cost is too mana intensive. These are the cards i'm considering for his replacement:
moldervine cloak - solid creature pump loxodon warhammer - deck synergy, creature pump. the downside is that it costs 6 to use. watchwolf - solid beatstick congregation at dawn - gets me fatties and tamanoa shock - okay removal, plus it sets off the burn machine ohran viper - draws into burn or the necessary pieces of the burn machine and has a 1/3 body.
or
+1 kird ape
+1 rumbling slum
+1 loxodon hierarch
I'm considering the latter, since rumbling slum is so dank in this build. having a 5/5 that drains life every turn is sweet considering all the life gain i've got going on.
Tamanoa negates the drawback of painlands and the painlands can set off searing meditation if tamanoa is out. I say replace the shocklands with painlands here.
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They call me Hadoken 'cause I'm down-right fierce.
Tamanoa negates the drawback of painlands and the painlands can set off searing meditation if tamanoa is out. I say replace the shocklands with painlands here.
so, i did some playtesting and lost consitently, in part because i was playing mostly against B/W control/aggro and in part because i just never drew searing meditation AND tamanoa, so i decided to add a little blue to the mix.
Blue is a very good idea for the deck as you do need to draw certain cards to "go off". But the main problem that I'm seeing is that your mana base (oddly absent from your list btw) will now be so dependent on duals it will almost make your deck auto scoop to blood moon. The best advice i can give you is to run congregation at dawn in the deck after dropping the blue and hope that you manage to draw a med.
Also your original list had a built in "man plan" that could take the game for you or at least hold your opponents creatures until you got set up. The list after your changes seems to be more of a one trick pony which is almost never a good thing (or at least when it is a very vunerable slow way of going off).
Don't get me wrong I do like the idea of the deck i actually have made a deck around tamanoa myself. I have not as of yet had chance to test it though because i have been more concerned with trying to find a deck that scrying sheets is most abusable in.
true that. i suppose i should at least add the only draw green has: ohran viper. I can easily see this guy being MVP for this deck. Congregation isn't a bad idea either, since stacking creatures gives me what i need, even if i don't have a meditation in play. new decklist:
Your current build seems like two decks smashed together, a Tamanoa/Med combo deck and a subpar version of Zoo. While there's no immediate problem with that, it does seem a bit unfocused.
I honestly think you should replace the duals with the pains, since they come into play untapped no matter what and with 'Noa out, not only are they painless, but they trigger Med. The duals will never do that.
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98% of the internet population has a Myspace. If you're part of the 2% that isn't an emo, copy and paste this into your sig.
Hey, you. Yes, you reading this sig. Get off your computer, go find a copy of Skies of Arcadia: Legends and play it. Trust me, you won't be disappointed.
Your current build seems like two decks smashed together, a Tamanoa/Med combo deck and a subpar version of Zoo. While there's no immediate problem with that, it does seem a bit unfocused.
Hmmm, then what should I do? I'm toying with the idea of making this more burn and control oriented, with a few fatties (loxodons and slums) to keep something on the board. Another problem with this is its high mana curve. I want to keep this deck kamigawaless, so maybe i'll run Wood Elves and Farseek to thin the deck a little and get a strong manabase. i'll try something like this tonight:
the biggest thing is that I have added Zur the Enchanter. I've noticed that no one else has added this card, but his ability lets you hunt for Searing Meditation as well as Moldervine Cloak (which complements your aggro build.) With Congregation at Dawn, I only see need for 1 Zur, but I've also included a small toolbox of creatures that can help you if you're in Burn or Aggro mode.
The life loss from the 17 shock lands really isn't that big a deal when you look at the mana curve, life gain, inclusion of Birds of Paradise and Farseek. Howeever, to offer some multicolored support and keep the life gain from killing you, I've also included 4 Pillars of the Paruns which helps you cast all the most important spells in the deck. of the 36 spells in the deck, only 13 can't be cast using the pillars, and I think that is a fair number.
if anyone is testing any of these builds, I suggest you try my build. It's just my initial attempt, but I think it would work well.
oooh, that's an interesting build! However, with 5 colors i think the manabase should be a bit more delicate. I'm going to try this build, only with these revisions:
-1 rumbling slum
+1 simic sky swallower
-4 moldervine cloak
+1 Zur the Enchanter
+3 Char/Remand/Electrolyze/Savage Twister/Pyroclasm
I would drop the cloaks simply because this build would die in aggro mode. I added SSS because it's a great win condition, and while expensive to cast, it's hard to get off the board. Also, losing one life per turn because of slum can wreck my game (if i lose any life gain).
oooh, that's an interesting build! However, with 5 colors i think the manabase should be a bit more delicate. I'm going to try this build, only with these revisions:
-1 rumbling slum
+1 simic sky swallower
-4 moldervine cloak
+1 Zur the Enchanter
+3 Char/Remand/Electrolyze/Savage Twister/Pyroclasm
I would drop the cloaks simply because this build would die in aggro mode. I added SSS because it's a great win condition, and while expensive to cast, it's hard to get off the board. Also, losing one life per turn because of slum can wreck my game (if i lose any life gain).
It's not really 5 colors. Zur is the only U and/or B card in the deck. Between Farseek, Pillar, and Birds I'm not really worried about playing him. The Cloaks are still good though because they go well with the aggro swuite and zur can even fetch them if you need him too. plus they always come back to help your guys.
I wanted to also say that Burning-Tree is a very good choice, because it's undercosted fat and its damage, while not helping with Tamanoa, also doesn't affect you because all your effects are triggered.
dude i like the deck but i cant see zur the enchanter being good here. Yes, he can be a tutor for your win condition. However, there is a risk of playing his mana cost becaue of the black and blue. More importantly, say you do get him in play- your opponent will have both the end of your turn and his turn to kill zur. In this deck, since you play no counters- except maybe remand?? anyways, it seems bad to play include mana fixing to play a tutor that must wait a whole turn and has no protection from removal?? However. what about chord of calling? i think with convoke this spell could happen quickly, and it would allow a zur at the end of an opponetns turn.
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4 stomping ground
4 temple garden
4 sacred foundry
3 forest
3 plains
2 mountain
4 birds of paradise
3 kird ape
3 burning-tree shaman
2 loxodon hierarch
3 rumbling slum
BURN MACHINE
4 searing meditation
4 Tamanoa
2 Firemane Angel
3 Orzhov Guildmage
4 Spirit Link
BURN
4 Lightning Helix
4 Char
Alright, some of these choices are obvious and some are not. The beatsticks are absolutely necessary, although I might switch out loxodon for watchwolf, simply because i want a low mana curve.
firemane angel - smashes face! gains me life for searing meditation. although, it's a dead card early game.
orzhov guildmage - the "gain 1 life" ability sets off searing meditation. and, it's a beatstick.
spirit link - I know this is a ***** card, but I think it works here. Gains me life early game so i don't get killed, and sets off the meditation/tamanoa machine.
Cards i'm considering:
watchwolf (see above)
moldervine cloak - although it doesn't really help with the synergy of this deck, it's just too badass of a card not to consider.
Everything else should be pretty obvious. comments and criticisms would be greatly appreciated.
:mad1:Apprentice of Lavamancy:mad1:
playing in standard:
Mono Black Control
(from hell):evil:
moldervine cloak - solid creature pump
loxodon warhammer - deck synergy, creature pump. the downside is that it costs 6 to use.
watchwolf - solid beatstick
congregation at dawn - gets me fatties and tamanoa
shock - okay removal, plus it sets off the burn machine
ohran viper - draws into burn or the necessary pieces of the burn machine and has a 1/3 body.
or
+1 kird ape
+1 rumbling slum
+1 loxodon hierarch
I'm considering the latter, since rumbling slum is so dank in this build. having a 5/5 that drains life every turn is sweet considering all the life gain i've got going on.
It also negates the drawback on Char...
the new build (which i'll be testing tonight):
4 tamanoa
4 searing meditation
COUNTER/DRAW/CONTROL
3 Remand
3 Mana Leak
4 Supply // Demand
3 Faith's Fetters
4 Court Hussar
4 Birds of paradise
BURN
4 char
4 lightning helix
3 electrolyze
Also your original list had a built in "man plan" that could take the game for you or at least hold your opponents creatures until you got set up. The list after your changes seems to be more of a one trick pony which is almost never a good thing (or at least when it is a very vunerable slow way of going off).
Don't get me wrong I do like the idea of the deck i actually have made a deck around tamanoa myself. I have not as of yet had chance to test it though because i have been more concerned with trying to find a deck that scrying sheets is most abusable in.
LAND
2 stomping ground
2 Karsuplan Forest
2 temple garden
2 Brushland
2 sacred foundry
2 Battlefield Forge
3 forest
3 plains
2 mountain
CRITTERS/BEATSTICKS
4 birds of paradise
3 kird ape
3 burning-tree shaman
2 loxodon hierarch
3 rumbling slum
3 Ohran Viper
BURN MACHINE
4 searing meditation
4 Tamanoa
MACHINE AID
3 Congregation at Dawn
3 Spirit Link
BURN
4 Lightning Helix
4 Char
3 Shock
I honestly think you should replace the duals with the pains, since they come into play untapped no matter what and with 'Noa out, not only are they painless, but they trigger Med. The duals will never do that.
Hey, you. Yes, you reading this sig. Get off your computer, go find a copy of Skies of Arcadia: Legends and play it. Trust me, you won't be disappointed.
Hmmm, then what should I do? I'm toying with the idea of making this more burn and control oriented, with a few fatties (loxodons and slums) to keep something on the board. Another problem with this is its high mana curve. I want to keep this deck kamigawaless, so maybe i'll run Wood Elves and Farseek to thin the deck a little and get a strong manabase. i'll try something like this tonight:
LAND
4 Karsuplan Forest
4 Brushland
4 Battlefield Forge
3 forest
3 plains
2 mountain
CRITTERS
4 birds of paradise
4 loxodon hierarch
3 Ohran Viper
MANA FETCH
3 wood elves
3 Farseek
BURN MACHINE/Fetch
4 searing meditation
4 Tamanoa
3 congregation at dawn
BURN
4 Lightning Helix
4 Char
4 Pyroclasm
I really want to run Priviledged Position as well, to keep my crap on the board. maybe run some faith's fetters and wrath of god as well.
4 Burning-Tree Shaman
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Rumbling Slum
4 Tamanoa
1 Zur the Enchanter
4 Lightning Helix
4 Congregation at Dawn
4 Farseek
4 Moldervine Cloak
4 Searing Meditation
1 Blood Crypt
6 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Pillar of the Paruns
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple Garden
the biggest thing is that I have added Zur the Enchanter. I've noticed that no one else has added this card, but his ability lets you hunt for Searing Meditation as well as Moldervine Cloak (which complements your aggro build.) With Congregation at Dawn, I only see need for 1 Zur, but I've also included a small toolbox of creatures that can help you if you're in Burn or Aggro mode.
The life loss from the 17 shock lands really isn't that big a deal when you look at the mana curve, life gain, inclusion of Birds of Paradise and Farseek. Howeever, to offer some multicolored support and keep the life gain from killing you, I've also included 4 Pillars of the Paruns which helps you cast all the most important spells in the deck. of the 36 spells in the deck, only 13 can't be cast using the pillars, and I think that is a fair number.
if anyone is testing any of these builds, I suggest you try my build. It's just my initial attempt, but I think it would work well.
-1 rumbling slum
+1 simic sky swallower
-4 moldervine cloak
+1 Zur the Enchanter
+3 Char/Remand/Electrolyze/Savage Twister/Pyroclasm
I would drop the cloaks simply because this build would die in aggro mode. I added SSS because it's a great win condition, and while expensive to cast, it's hard to get off the board. Also, losing one life per turn because of slum can wreck my game (if i lose any life gain).
It's not really 5 colors. Zur is the only U and/or B card in the deck. Between Farseek, Pillar, and Birds I'm not really worried about playing him. The Cloaks are still good though because they go well with the aggro swuite and zur can even fetch them if you need him too. plus they always come back to help your guys.
I wanted to also say that Burning-Tree is a very good choice, because it's undercosted fat and its damage, while not helping with Tamanoa, also doesn't affect you because all your effects are triggered.