Box Mapping Thread - GTC Gatecrash Edition

SynthesisB · 01-25-2013, 02:48 AM

The MTGS Rules no longer allow for creating box maps. We felt that there was too much potential for abuse and we didn't want to support a practice that a lot of people use to rip off others. Learning about and understanding that box mapping is a thing can be important, but that can be done without actually creating the tools needed to filter through packs. We understand that a fair number of people map boxes for completely legitimate reasons, but there are enough that we are not comfortable allowing our site to be used for this practice. Thank you.
-Galspanic

Hey guys, I'm fairly new to the forums, but I figure with pre-release coming this weekend, I should go ahead and create a Box Mapping thread for Gatecrash. In keeping with tradition, here is a quote from Mr. Smiley who normally starts these threads:

"This is not a brag thread, or a "fishing for trades" thread; we're all happy for you that you opened high value cards--but if you cant give us a list of the entire box, in order, it doesn't help us decode the rare map.

The same goes for "I opened a box but didn't keep track of the order, and got..."--again, doesn't help, spams the thread."

For anyone new to mapping, Ross Edwards deserves some recognition for writing a rather in-depth review of Box Mapping. While some of the basic principles of his mapping technique remain the same, WotC have implemented a new algorithm for the sorting of rares. As far as I have surmised, all the rares and mythic rares come from two sheets of 11x11 cards. If we use the same sorting algorithm from Innistrad, Avacyn Restored, and Return to Ravinca, the 11 x 11 sheets are cut into 4 tracks. These are represented by Tracks A-D. The tracks are then distributed in booster packs in the following order:

A B D A B D D A A B C A C D C C B D C B D C

or

D B C C D A D C A B C C B B D D A A D B C A

or

C A D B C C A D B C A D B C A D D B C A D B

or

C B A D D C B A D B C A D D C B A D C C B A
(Thanks mtggo)

Each track has a few characteristics that we can use to determine which cards will be in each Track. Track A usually contains two copies of 15 mythic rares with 4 copies of 6 different rares and 1 copy of a rare in Track B (usually a land or artifact). Track B contains 13 rares appearing 4 times with 3 of the remaining copies of the rare found in track A. Track C and D contain 16 rares appearing 4 times, in each, with two copies of one rare in each. As such, Track A and B both have 55 cards total while C and D have 66 cards total. If this explanation is confusing, here is an example from Innistrad:

Track A: 15 Mythics appearing twice + 6 rares appearing 4 times + 1 Kessig Wolf Run = 55 Cards
Track B: 13 Rares appearing 4 times + other 3 Kessig Wolf Run = 55 Cards
Track C: 16 Rares appearing 4 times + 2 Evil Twin = 66 Cards
Track D: 16 Rares appearing 4 times + 2 Evil Twin = 66 Cards

Additionally, each box undergoes double displacement of rows. This usually occurs on the 1st and 7th row (often two rows, say 3 and 10, are removed and placed on top and in the 7th row). This would change the order of cards from 1-12 to 3, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 10, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12. If you are attempting to map the box, it's relatively safe to assume that rows 4-6 and 11-12 are in the correct location (though not always).

Before you begin mapping your box, watch this video by Vinzito describing how to put your cards in order.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh1Q3WLe_iE

When you list your boxes, indicate the guild pictured on the front of the pack or the last digit on the barcode. (If you don't have the pack's number, that's fine, but it will help speed up the mapping process.)
The numbers that are associated with each image are as follows:
Boros Guildmage: 15049807000001
Vizkopa Guildmage: 15049807000002
Prime Speaker Zegana: 15049807000003
Skarrg Guildmage: 15049807000004
Duskmantle Guildmage: 15049807000005

In an effort to develop some standardization for inputting cards, please follow the format below that includes mythic rares in red and foils in parentheses(As a disclaimer, remember that bold red posts are reserved for moderators). The numbers in parentheses represent the guild or last digit of the bar code discussed above.

Left Column:
(1) Clan Defiance
(4) Borborygmos Enraged
(2) Sepulchral Primordial
(5) Rubblehulk
(3) Fathom Mage (Bomber Corps)
(1) Merciless Eviction
(4) Rubblebelt Raiders
(2) Mind Grind
(5) Crypt Ghast
(3) Treasury Thrull
(1) Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
(4) Luminate Primordial

Center Column:
(5) Hellkite Tyrant (Ground Assault)
(3) Sacred Foundry (Enter the Infinite)
(1) Ooze Flux
(4) Whispering Madness
(2) Simic Manipulator
(5) Nightveil Specter
(3) Realmwright
(1) Ogre Slumlord (Island #258)
(4) Wrecking Ogre
(2) Gruul Ragebeast
(5) Biovisionary
(3) Molten Primordial

Right Column:
(4) Stolen Identity
(2) Stomping Ground
(5) Alms Beast (Skyblinder Staff)
(3) Frontline Medic
(1)Sylvan Primordial
(4) Gideon, Champion of Justice
(2) Obzedat, Ghost Council
(5) Legion Loyalist (Gateway Shade)
(3) Thespian’s Stage
(1) Godless Shrine
(4) Boros Reckoner (Forced Adaptation)
(2) Watery Grave

These are listed Top to Bottom for each Row.
Remember to provide the Country and Language that the box was printed in (Usually, Belgium or U.S.A.)
Finally, double check your Spelling for card names. The more accurate your spelling, the faster we can produce the map.

Furthermore if you have cases, please list them as described by Mr. Smiley in the RTR thread:
"If you're giving a full case list (yay!), the boxes are most times loaded in the case bottom-side up, for ease of barcode scanning; let us know if your case is not loaded that way. The 6-4-2-5-3-1 Ross refers to is--I think--the order the boxes are loaded in the case; with the front of the boxes facing right, the machines load boxes into cases in this order: bottom right(1), top right(2), bottom middle(3), top middle(4), bottom left(5), top left(6). If you're giving a full case list, please number your boxes so our database crunchers can attempt to use the multi-box data."

I realize that writing down each rare that comes out of a pack in order is a bit of a pain. However, each box we get brings us closer to developing an accurate map.

In closing, have fun in the upcoming pre-release festivities. I'm sure you already have a guild or two picked out, and once you finish extorting your friends into the ground, don't forget to post your unboxings on the thread.

All the Tracks have been solved and can be found below. Thanks mtggo and Vinzito for your help in compiling the Tracks.
Track Information:

Track A: 15 Mythics appearing twice + 6 rares appearing 4 times + 1 Stolen Identity = 55 Cards
Track B: 13 Rares appearing 4 times + other 3 Stolen Identity = 55 Cards
Track C: 16 Rares appearing 4 times + 2 Spark Trooper = 66 Cards
Track D: 16 Rares appearing 4 times + 2 Spark Trooper = 66 Cards

Track A:

Spoiler:

Track B:

Spoiler:

Track C:

Spoiler:

Track D:

Spoiler:

It would seem that there is an open discussion on the ethics surrounding box mapping. At the moment, it appears that we may not be able to discuss this topic come Dragon's Maze. For the time being, I am waiting for the thread to unlock. Once it does, I will provide a link. Until then, I suggest that we keep this thread centered on solving the map and leave the ethical issues for other threads.

Edits:
1-31-13 Added a data file provided by CanadianGreenBeret. Thanks, again, for contributing this.
2-1-13: Added the second track provided by mtggo, changed the example to a Gatecrash box. Added the Partial Track Information.
2-2-13: Found another Sequence of Tracks. Updated the Track list.
2-3-13: Compiled my list and mtggo's list to form 4 nearly completed Tracks. Track C is currently a train wreck.
2-6-13: Fixed Track C. All Tracks should be accurate now. Thanks, mtggo and Vinzito for contributing your maps as well as everyone that contributed box data.

Yalpe · 01-25-2013, 05:57 AM

Hello.

During the RTR period I have learned about this technique and wanted to contribute. I wrote a program that might be useful to those who do the mapping by hand. My goal was to have it solve the map automatically but I am not there yet (open for suggestions, just pm me). Here is a sample of the results I got from the RTR xlsl file :

(ok or !ok) <card name>-<followed by>:<#occurances>

( ok) Blood Crypt-Search the City:183
( ok) Supreme Verdict-Cyclonic Rift:77
( ok) Chaos Imps-Palisade Giant:71
( ok) Underworld Connections-Blood Crypt:66
( ok) Loxodon Smiter-Ash Zealot:65
( ok) Collective Blessing-Growing Ranks:65
( ok) Hallowed Fountain-Precinct Captain:62
( ok) Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius-Carnival Hellsteed:61
(!ok) Abrupt Decay-Volatile Rig:61
( ok) Wayfaring Temple-Collective Blessing:59
(!ok) Volatile Rig-Counterflux:58
( ok) Chaos Imps-Collective Blessing:54
( ok) Palisade Giant-Loxodon Smiter:54
( ok) Growing Ranks-Chaos Imps:54
( ok) Loxodon Smiter-Chaos Imps:53

These are the top results. Obviously it is not the whole map but most of it is accurate if you compare it to the real map. This was extracted from 97 boxes of data using a rudimentary technique. It takes no assumption based on the tracks or the sequences so it should be improvable. Again if you have suggestions I'm open to try them.

One last point, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE pay attention to the syntax when writing cards to a document. It needs to be the exact name on gatherer otherwise it makes it quite hard for the program to figure out what the cards are and I will usually reject the boxes/fix the data manually (sucks).

Let's do this

Vinzito · 01-25-2013, 07:57 AM

These are the track lists I came up with if anyone is interested.
I only used boxes with sleeve data.

Track A:

Spoiler:

Track B:

Spoiler:

Track C:

Spoiler:

Track D:

Spoiler:

SynthesisB · 01-25-2013, 12:48 PM

Great news! I'm glad to see computer science taking the guess work out of mapping. Just out of curiosity, will the program solve the tracks in the event they switch the order of the tracks? Additionally, have you considered going through the old sets and determining the foil distribution algorithm?

Yalpe · 01-25-2013, 01:46 PM

That was the idea at first. I tried to figure out the tracks without inputting the sequence or any relevant assumptions based on the current print technology. However it does not seem simple as row inversion introduces a lot of noise.

Maybe Vinzito figured it out. I know I haven't yet

thatsnailguy · 01-27-2013, 03:01 AM

Okay guys first box towards the mapping project.
Vinzito, any chance you are willing to release your mapping method?

Illusionist's Bracers
Sacred Foundry
Stomping Ground
Alms Beast
Godless Shrine
Realmwright (Orzhov Charm)
Watery Grave
Soul Ransom
Legion Loyalist
Duskmantle Seer
Thespian's Stage
Molten Primordial

Rubblehulk
Molten Primordial
Clan Defiance
Consuming Aberration
Sylvan Primordial (Forest #270)
Deathpact Angel
Treasury Thrull (Plains #280)
Nightveil Specter
Fathom Mage
Aurelia, the Warleader
Boros Reckoner
Breeding Pool

Ooze Flux
Unexpected Results (Whispering Madness)
Aurelia's Fury
Sepulchral Primordial
Biovisionary
Simic Manipulator
Stolen Identity
Biomass Mutation (Cloudfin Raptor)
Rubblebelt Raiders
Crypt Ghast
Stolen Identity
Gruul Ragebeast

Vinzito · 01-27-2013, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatsnailguy

Okay guys first box towards the mapping project.
Vinzito, any chance you are willing to release your mapping method?

The program that solves the box maps? It's just a whole mess of code. It factors in all of the things we know about row shifting, pack removals and same-track card swapping.

Right now I have it locked in to our old track sequence to save time, but it can find a new one if need be with any number of tracks.

Thanks for getting us started. I've been home programming all day Saturday while the wife was out doing the prerelease event.

SynthesisB · 01-27-2013, 04:07 PM

I saw your video Vinzito on M13. Good stuff. I'm glad you took the time to program an app for the sets. Have you put any thought into how the foils are currently being placed into boxes? I was thinking of going back through RTR and seeing if I could find patterns in the cases. They apparently come from sheets similar to the foils. Maybe they run different tracks for Common/Uncommon/Rare&Mythic rares.

Actually, now that I think about it, I'm going to check the cases to see if they follow the pattern of any of the rare tracks.

demonz666 · 01-27-2013, 05:27 PM

pre-order boxes will come 1st of feb , here in our area.

will post list ASAP

thatsnailguy · 01-27-2013, 07:03 PM

So, is it odd that two mythics were next to each other on the same row?

Ace5301 · 01-27-2013, 07:08 PM

I don't personally do box mapping, but I find it fascinating how this all works. I'll try and post my box next week when I open it to help the cause

Coffee4am · 01-27-2013, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinzito

The program that solves the box maps? It's just a whole mess of code. It factors in all of the things we know about row shifting, pack removals and same-track card swapping.

Right now I have it locked in to our old track sequence to save time, but it can find a new one if need be with any number of tracks.

Thanks for getting us started. I've been home programming all day Saturday while the wife was out doing the prerelease event.

Just watched your vid, that is very impressive... will def buying the GTC app from you once its released!

nethermage · 01-27-2013, 08:36 PM

just watched your video as i'm interested in this box mapping and was very impressed with what i saw if i owned a phone that could use apps your box mapping apps would be the first ones i'd add. great service and looking forward to gtc edition

thatsnailguy · 01-27-2013, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinzito

The program that solves the box maps? It's just a whole mess of code. It factors in all of the things we know about row shifting, pack removals and same-track card swapping.

Right now I have it locked in to our old track sequence to save time, but it can find a new one if need be with any number of tracks.

Thanks for getting us started. I've been home programming all day Saturday while the wife was out doing the prerelease event.

I was just thinking, would it be too difficult/not rewarding enough to develop this into your apps, in order to have a DYNAMIC path to opening the fewest packs to having the complete box mapped.
Also, is the data consistent enough to add support for opening cases?

Target Player · 01-27-2013, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace5301

I don't personally do box mapping, but I find it fascinating how this all works. I'll try and post my box next week when I open it to help the cause

I agree. I always go to these threads. I love attempting to see the patterns involved. I will also try to post mine next weekend.

Here's hoping I do much better than I did than with my last box I cracked back for Innistrad. I had the worst one imaginable.

01-25-2013, 07:57 AM	#3
Vinzito Experienced Mage Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 68	These are the track lists I came up with if anyone is interested. I only used boxes with sleeve data. Track A: Spoiler: Track B: Spoiler: Track C: Spoiler: Track D: Spoiler: __________________ Box Mapping Apps - RTR AVR INN M13 GTC DKA Last edited by Vinzito; 02-05-2013 at 09:18 AM.
0

01-27-2013, 07:08 PM	#11
Ace5301 Archmage Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Did you check your closet? Posts: 965	I don't personally do box mapping, but I find it fascinating how this all works. I'll try and post my box next week when I open it to help the cause __________________ Signature and avatar by me at Ace of Spades Studio! Feel free to stop by and request! My decks Spoiler: I'm on a quest to build a bunch of unusual tribal EDH decks. So far I've got Giants and Birds. If you have an unusual tribal that you would like to suggest, PM me! "The only real control we have is over ourselves." -We Came as Romans
0

01-25-2013, 05:57 AM	#2
Yalpe Just Getting Started Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 8	Hello. During the RTR period I have learned about this technique and wanted to contribute. I wrote a program that might be useful to those who do the mapping by hand. My goal was to have it solve the map automatically but I am not there yet (open for suggestions, just pm me). Here is a sample of the results I got from the RTR xlsl file : (ok or !ok) <card name>-<followed by>:<#occurances> ( ok) Blood Crypt-Search the City:183 ( ok) Supreme Verdict-Cyclonic Rift:77 ( ok) Chaos Imps-Palisade Giant:71 ( ok) Underworld Connections-Blood Crypt:66 ( ok) Loxodon Smiter-Ash Zealot:65 ( ok) Collective Blessing-Growing Ranks:65 ( ok) Hallowed Fountain-Precinct Captain:62 ( ok) Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius-Carnival Hellsteed:61 (!ok) Abrupt Decay-Volatile Rig:61 ( ok) Wayfaring Temple-Collective Blessing:59 (!ok) Volatile Rig-Counterflux:58 ( ok) Chaos Imps-Collective Blessing:54 ( ok) Palisade Giant-Loxodon Smiter:54 ( ok) Growing Ranks-Chaos Imps:54 ( ok) Loxodon Smiter-Chaos Imps:53 These are the top results. Obviously it is not the whole map but most of it is accurate if you compare it to the real map. This was extracted from 97 boxes of data using a rudimentary technique. It takes no assumption based on the tracks or the sequences so it should be improvable. Again if you have suggestions I'm open to try them. One last point, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE pay attention to the syntax when writing cards to a document. It needs to be the exact name on gatherer otherwise it makes it quite hard for the program to figure out what the cards are and I will usually reject the boxes/fix the data manually (sucks). Let's do this
0

01-25-2013, 12:48 PM	#4
SynthesisB Common Mage Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 43	Great news! I'm glad to see computer science taking the guess work out of mapping. Just out of curiosity, will the program solve the tracks in the event they switch the order of the tracks? Additionally, have you considered going through the old sets and determining the foil distribution algorithm?
0

01-25-2013, 01:46 PM	#5
Yalpe Just Getting Started Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 8	That was the idea at first. I tried to figure out the tracks without inputting the sequence or any relevant assumptions based on the current print technology. However it does not seem simple as row inversion introduces a lot of noise. Maybe Vinzito figured it out. I know I haven't yet
0

01-27-2013, 03:01 AM	#6
thatsnailguy Just Getting Started Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 8	Okay guys first box towards the mapping project. Vinzito, any chance you are willing to release your mapping method? Illusionist's Bracers Sacred Foundry Stomping Ground Alms Beast Godless Shrine Realmwright (Orzhov Charm) Watery Grave Soul Ransom Legion Loyalist Duskmantle Seer Thespian's Stage Molten Primordial Rubblehulk Molten Primordial Clan Defiance Consuming Aberration Sylvan Primordial (Forest #270) Deathpact Angel Treasury Thrull (Plains #280) Nightveil Specter Fathom Mage Aurelia, the Warleader Boros Reckoner Breeding Pool Ooze Flux Unexpected Results (Whispering Madness) Aurelia's Fury Sepulchral Primordial Biovisionary Simic Manipulator Stolen Identity Biomass Mutation (Cloudfin Raptor) Rubblebelt Raiders Crypt Ghast Stolen Identity Gruul Ragebeast
0

01-27-2013, 04:07 PM	#8
SynthesisB Common Mage Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 43	I saw your video Vinzito on M13. Good stuff. I'm glad you took the time to program an app for the sets. Have you put any thought into how the foils are currently being placed into boxes? I was thinking of going back through RTR and seeing if I could find patterns in the cases. They apparently come from sheets similar to the foils. Maybe they run different tracks for Common/Uncommon/Rare&Mythic rares. Actually, now that I think about it, I'm going to check the cases to see if they follow the pattern of any of the rare tracks.
0

01-27-2013, 05:27 PM	#9
demonz666 Common Mage Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 49	pre-order boxes will come 1st of feb , here in our area. will post list ASAP
0

01-27-2013, 07:03 PM	#10
thatsnailguy Just Getting Started Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 8	So, is it odd that two mythics were next to each other on the same row?
0

01-27-2013, 08:36 PM	#13
nethermage Just Getting Started Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 27	just watched your video as i'm interested in this box mapping and was very impressed with what i saw if i owned a phone that could use apps your box mapping apps would be the first ones i'd add. great service and looking forward to gtc edition
0

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