Introduction:
I would not consider this a primer yet, but seek to present a variant of the conventional UW midrange deck that we all know of by introducing a 3rd color, black. Nevertheless, I do hope that moving forward I can have support from you guys, the forum community to help to improve this thread into a primer for this deck type
Hence, this is my latest construction of an Esper Midrange deck for the Modern format. For your constructive discussions and recommendations for any genuine improvements. Thank you.
History and References:
UW Midrange as we all know does not have a very long history, well afterall Modern is still a rather new format, but neither is UW Midrange the new kid on the block or a fluke. It as well as its recent Raka variant has certainly proven themselves as competitive in the format.
With regards to UW midrange, we have had a thread discussing about it for sometime, as referred here.
Recently, a primer was created for UW Midrange, as referred here. Since the owner of the primer has expressed his wish for his primer to stay close to specifically UW, I respect his wishes and present this separate thread to discuss mainly about the Esper variant.
Why Esper? Why add Black?
Because blue is too restrained in modern, and has lost much of its original power that would otherwise have existed in Legacy or even certain periods of Standard.
Throughout the history of MTG, Blue magic has been well known or perhaps even notorious for many reasons, some of which that stands out is its draw spells and countermagic.
But in Modern...
Draw Spells: Brainstorm is irrelevant. Ponder and even Preordain are banned, leaving many of us left to take up subpar draw spells like serum visions etc.
Countermagic: Where is the good old plain and simple Counterspell? Honestly, what is Mana Leak or even Remand compared to it? Counterspell was just plain simple and effective. just counter target spell, no buts, no more, no less.
To compensate for Blue's lost of power, other colors may need to come in to overcome this problem. Some said Red, and thus it has been proven the competitiveness of Raka (WUR) Restoration Midrange. But I say "Black", because:
- Discard is better than countermagic in Modern (feel free to disagree, this is just my opinion), and Jund in its own ways proved it. If countermagic is not good enough, I mind as well see your hand, get information on your game plan, and pluck away from your hand what I don't like.
- Lighting Bolt/Lightning Helix does not suffice to remove Tarmogoyf, Kitchen Fink, Raging Ravine, Deceiver Exarch, Restoration Angel Etc. Dismember does, but you wouldn't want to always pay 4 life to cast each of it. And Smother kills many things even the famous and pricey Tarmogoyf.
- Creeping Tar Pit is effective, but much cheaper in mana cost than Celestial Colonade. And I just like it cheap and good, don't we?
Why play this over UW Midrange?
Well, there is no why, it's really all up to you man. You may feel Blue and White is good enough for you, carry on. You may feel that you want to use the flames of Red magic and chuck those bolts of fire at your opponent's face, by all means, continue. But...
But if like me, you feel that Blue is just not enough to complement White, and Red just ain't good enough to take out many of your opponent's beaters, and thus you decide to turn to the forces of darkness, seek to take control the powers of the Black arts and fuse it with your blue and white magic, then Esper Midrange it is...
(What about Green? I shall leave that for someone else to talk about.)
Why Play this deck?
- You want to play a midrange deck, but you don't have 4 tarmogoyf and 4 Dark Confidant, and hmph pardon me but neither do you wish to sell your butt for them. Or you do not believe that in Modern, "midrange=Jund", "midrange=Jund", "midrange=Jund", "midrange=OH SHUT UPPPP!!!" and you wish you have another option for the midrange path.
- You like to have the vesatility to disrupt your opponents on 3 fronts by using discard, countermagic and removal, instead of the usual 2 ways of removal + countermagic or removal + discard.
- You still like to play at the end of your opponents' turn or anytime during his/her turn at instant speed, while you also like sorceries that let you look at your opponent's hand, take a note and write down his cards, and choose the one that you dislike and bin it.
- You hate your opponent having creatures on board, and enjoy destroying or removing them.
- You like some of your creatures to be able to strike from the sky or are even unblockable.
- you like reusing instants and sorceries from your graveyard.
Why not play this deck?
- You like to combo and hmph play with yourself. You don't like interaction and you believe that your opponent across the table should just be a statue.
- You like to drop an Emrakul on the board.
- You like copying things infinite times.
- You like a rigid, linear and specificly clear-defined strategy.
- You like playing unfair decks.
- You like to flood the board with creatures and play pure, straightfoward aggro.
- You are a pure control-freak, and just like to play very long games whereby you just sit staring at your opponent do things and you are do nothing else except denying everything that he/she does, until he/she just scoops and walks away with feeling so rejected.
Card Choices:
Creatures:
Restoration Angel:
She is the star of this deck, her blink effect has synergy with most of our other creatures (ie. Snapcaster mage, Blade Splicer, Vendilion Clique, and even a combat trick with Geist of Saint Traft). And unless if future cards from MTG either replace or invalidates her usefulness, she shall unquestionably remain a staple in this deck type.
Snapcaster Mage:
The deck obviously lacks draw spells, but Tiago allows us the recursion that still provides us another form of card advantage (reusing binned cards, while not needing to use that from your hand). Likewise a staple.
Geist of Saint Traft:
Often a finisher. It is not unusual for you to win games by sitting and swinging with one Geist of Saint Traft while clearing his path with removal. He is one of the main reasons for the high removal count in this deck which is not unusual since decks like Raka Delver played a high count for their burn/removal package too, our reason like theirs is simply just to clear the path for him.
Hexproof has proven itself a pain to many, and it seems like WOTC is recognising this and thus at the time of this thread's creation, designed hexproof "hate" cards (ie. Glaring Spotlight from Gatecrash). Therefore, moving forward, I am not sure if he may be relatively weaken to a state of being invalid, but that is an issue for then and there, for now his is considered a staple.
Blade Splicer:
It's simple, One spell, two bodies, one of them with 1st strike, that's good value. But both bodies are still within Lightning bolt range. An advantageous card, but not entirely broken. Blinking it with Restoration Angel is just awesome, way to go, first strike golem army. The colorless golem also helps to block Etched Champion of Robots/Affinity.
Kitchen Finks:
I like this guy, he is resilient to destruction type effects. Blink it with Restoration Angel to gain more life and to remove the "persisted" status. I prefer this over Blade Splicer against decks that play burn or destruction based removal like Jund and RDW, but I prefer Blade Splicer against decks that play Path to Exile.
Vendilion Clique:
More hand information and disruption, flash and playing on our opponent's turns is what we like to do. Blink it with Restoration Angel for another time of hand disruption.
Tidehollow Sculler: W+B, and you get to see your opponent's hand and sit on a non-land. He is partial hand disruption on legs. Some argue that eventhough you don't really discard the chosen card, but you delay it's usage and waste a removal/burn from your opponent. Some did rather clear-cut discard that bins the chosen spell. What do you think?
Instants and Sorceries:
Path to Exile:
Takes out Kitchen Finks, and huge creatures. Well it helps to "ramp" the opponent's lands, but one of the ideas of this deck is "What's the point of your opponent having so many lands, if he/she is out of resources."
Dismember:
Particularly for Tarmogoyf since it averages out as a 4/5 or 5/6. It kills a 4/5 goyf, and oh let me block your 5/6 goyf with my Geist of Saint Traft, oh yes I am shrinking your goyf to a 0/1 And as we are playing black mana producing lands, we do not always have to suffer 4 damage from casting each of these, unlike our UW/UWR counterparts.
Smother:
Formats like Legacy and Modern having a large card pool is mainly represented with decks with low mana curves. We all want spells that are cheap and good. And for such creatures, smother takes them out, no matter how big they can become (ie. Da Goyfffff).
Mana Leak:
It's most effective early game but probably ineffective late game. But what other choice do we have, Remand? Hmm I don't think our strategy is dedicated to tempo play. I don't like manaleak, I wish it was a Counterspell, but what can I say, I still need some form of countermagic, it does help to say no to casting planeswalkers, etched champion, equipment, artifacts etc, and sometimes it protects your killing strike. Let's hope for some new countermagic to replace it in future, but for now it's more or less a necessary evil.
Spell snare:
No doubt a lot of good spells in Modern cost 2 mana, but the restriction is still significantly narrow. I'd rather use the space for removal and discard that have better flexibility.
Devour Flesh
At the time of writing, this new card was being released. So the new "Edict" "Swords". 2 casting cost is acceptable, instant speed is right for this deck, the sacrificial effect helps deal with opposing Geist of Saint Traft, but the life gain is questionable, what do you think?
Gonna give this a try.
Inquisition of Kozilek/Thoughtseize:
Discard is awesome in modern, and decks like Jund proved it. But why only 4 of them in total? Because we did not get a WB Scar's Land (WOTC PLEASE GIVE US A WB SCARLAND...). You want to cast this very very early game, hopefully turn 1, while it's less effective later in the game, but not getting black source on turn one hurts it. You all may say we have Darkslick Shores, but we have given up a lot of our UB land space to Creeping Tarpit.
This is however not a problem and you can up the discard spell count, if you are playing Celestial Colonade as your manland of choice, and can therefore pack in a set Darkslick Shores.
Planeswalker: Liliana of the Veil:
Yes she can come in here, and helps against the mirror match against opposing geists, but since we lack card draw, I am a little worried about her +1. What do you guys think?
Lands: Creeping Tar Pit:
UW midrange used Celestial Colonade, but I prefer this guy due to the lower activation cost and it being unblockable.
Tectonic Edge/Moorland Haunt???
Adding them to our mana base as a 3 color deck can be rather risky. But if you find that risk acceptable and worth taking, then please by all means add them in.
Vs Jund:
"Even"
This game usually plays out with a lot of 1-for-1 trades and ends up with an empty board on both sides and a topdecking game, this is where if you cannot answer a Bloodbraid Elf, they would be miles ahead of you and you are in big trouble. (IMO WOTC, pleaseeee ban that cheater, Bloodbraid Elf!!! But that's just IMO).
Unless if they have Maelstrom Pulse ready, the Blade Splicer + Restoration Angel shenanigans gives them quite a headache. If you can deny Liliana of the Veil from resolving (that accompanied with our high removal count to clear the way), or waste Liliana of the Veil -2 ability (by perhaps flashing another creature to be sac) there's nothing much they can do about Geist of Saint Traft.
(Note: Bloodbraid Elf is to be banned with effect Feb 2013, this section is pending updates)
VS GW Hatebears
"Even" to "Slightly Favourable"
A deck filled with hate that walk on legs, and for things that walk on legs we have a deck packed with 10 spot removals waiting to meet them. The only problem as usual is that the walkers that are being swarmed out outpaces our removal/disruption, and the classic way they achieve this is by the old Aether Vial (I call it Aether "Vile", oh free creature spells that can be "flashed" in ain't fair, pal...).
Postboard Disenchant or some artifact hate to deal with the "Vile" will help slow them down, Board wipes on the other hand punishes them for overextending.
Vs Affinity/Robots
Game 1 "Slightly not in our favor", Postboard "favorable"
They are fast, very fast, and they swarm like ants, spot removal may not be enough to kill them all one at a time. Galvanic blast and shrapnel blast each packs a bigger punch than the usual lightning bolt. Etched Champion is a pain, but fortunately we have the colorless golem token from Blade Splicer to block it. Postboard bring in your board wipes, stony silence and even Disenchant, and hope you have any of these in your hand and you have the mana available to cast them.
Vs Zoo
"Slight Favorable" to "Even"
So they lost Wild Nacatl, but are they really dead??? I don't think so, perhaps back then they seen too much play then they should and these days they are seeing too little play than they really deserve. They are still fast and very aggressive. Their blue splash gives them access to Geist of Saint Traft and Snapcaster Mage, so what? So with all five colors lands, Tribal Flames + Snapcaster Mage flashback Tribal Flames means 10 damage using a total of only 6 mana, doesn't that scare you???
Our high removal count helps to deal with their creatures, except Geist of Saint Traft, but Inquisition of Korzilek and Geist's Legend Rule helps us against it. They are aggro and very often you are control. The problem as usual is that they spam out creatures in quantities that our spot removal cannot keep up with. Post sideboard sweepers will definitely help, since they lack card draw and therefore are unlikely to recover from a blow out from overextending.
Vs Delver Tempo
"Favorable"
We pack 10 removal spells that deals with everyone of their creatures except Geist of Saint Traft, but we have Geist of Saint Traft too and can "legend rule' to get rid of theirs. Though not listed above in the decklist, playing black also allow us to play Liliana of the Veil (some of you may prefer to have her in your deck, I like her too, but I am worried that this deck does not play any card draw to overcome the loss from her +1) which is a bane to the lonely spirit swordsman. Our discard also hurts them a lot since their curve usually tops at 3, so Inquisition of Korzilek is free to target all their non-land spells. Their burn does not work on all of our creatures and Restoration Angel adds on to this problem for them, but be careful not to let your life total drop too low, or the burn spells can take you out, so be careful not to pay too much life for your black spells and fetch and shock lands.
Vs Tron.
Game 1 "Slightly not in our favor", Postboard "favorable"
I have not tried dueling against UW Tron yet, so that is pending. Against RG Tron, unlike our UW predecessors, we do not maindeck tectonic edge (you can try, but I find that risky for our landbase since we play 3 colors). Game 1 we just have to go on the offense and try to kill them before they assemble the tron lands and bring out their bombs. Game 2, lock them down! Aven mindcensor stops them from searching for their pieces, stony silence locks their artifacts and mindslavers, then give them the beatdown.
Vs Twin Combo
"Favorable"
We mainboard 10 removal spells so creature-based decks, even creature-based combo decks can be like a walk in the park for us, shoot their combo pieces while beating them down. Discard also helps you pluck off their countermagic.
Vs Pod Decks
Pending. Open for you all to share your experience in this matchup.
Vs Storm
Game 1 "Not in our favor", Postboard "favorable" if you have graveyard hate and hard counters ready
Non-interactive at all. Do not let the game drag out too long, on a side note I noticed that good storm players wouldn't try to combo off asap, they would rather take their time to build up many lands and then combo off when they are confident they can end the game or they are pressurized and compelled to take a chance to go off before you kill them off, the reason is that a developed manabase allows them to play around manaleak and remand, and even if they are stopped in their combo, they hope to have enough mana to recover and resume the combo. Game one you can only try to kill them asap or hope their combo fizzle. Game two use graveyard hate to shut down their Past In Flames engine to slow them down and on top of that you must, I repeat you musttt beat them down and keep that pressure on them.
(Note: Seething Song is to be banned with effect Feb 2013, this section is pending updates)
Vs Infect:
"Unfavorable" to "Even"
They are like affinity, very fast and even more explosive. Their "weapons", the pump spells come mainly in the form of instants and sorceries, except for Rancor, and all weapons need a weapon bearer, the body, the creature to be armed with it. Thus, focus your removal and most of disruption on the creatures, and try not to let them have more than one weapon bearer on the board, because "what is the point of the swords when they have no one to wield them". The 1st four to five turns are critical, survive that and you would have enough mana for a postboard board wipe. So again, deny them of their weapon bearers, keep the beatdown on them to win.
Vs eggs.
Pending. Open for you all to share your experience in this matchup.But I fear that it's like storm, but we need artifact hate to lock down this omelette.
Vs RDW/Red Burn:
"Slightly Unfavorable" to "Even"
At the time of writing , RDW has taken a new incarnation with R not being "Red" but is now "Rakdos". Their black splash was to allow them to assimilate the new star, Deathrite Shaman and other black spells that support their game plan like Bump in the Night. The roles in this matchup is obvious, they are aggro, and we are often controlling. They are fast and can kill without attacking with their creatures. Deathrite Shaman is far more deadly here than most of the other archetypes, because his black mana effect further supports RDW's burning plan. All that player burn can quickly bring you down to dangerous levels of life totals, when Deathrite Shaman acts as a repeatable burn that seeks to finish the game. Hence Deathrite Shaman is even more so a higher priority target to kill on sight here than most other decks, yes it's priority is perhaps even higher than Grim Lavamancer. With our high removal count and Blade Splicer wall, we are often not worried allowing Vexing Devil to resolve as a beater on the board.
Game 1 try to deny them card draw from Dark Confidant, be careful of your shocks and fetches in order to do your best to preserve your life points at comfortable levels, hold up and hopefully before they can bring your life total down to the red zone, they have runned out of steam. Blade Splicer two body effect can sometimes be used as a decoy to waste their player/creature burn. Geist of Saint Traft is certainly a fast clock they almost cannot do anything about, Restoration Angel evades their blockers and often takes more than 1 burn spell to take out.
Vs UW/UWR Midrange
I don't wanna start an arguement on which variant of UW Midrange is better, for this matter I respect the player's own choice. The focus here is strictly on the matchup only.
That being said, the key advantages this deck against them that you should bear in mind are:
- "Flash" decks have their "headquarters" in their hand rather than the board. Inquisition of Korzilek, Thoughtseize and discard really hurts that. At the very least, paying 1 black mana for the spell that forces your opponent to pay at least around 2 mana to counter is not a bad deal after all.
- These matchups are often about who can resolve Geist of Saint Traft and protect him (especially from combat). UW and UWR will find it very difficult to deal with yours onboard (aside from the legend rule), at least you have a Liliana of the Veil to deal with theirs.
- Creeping Tar Pit goes online faster and uses less mana than Celestial Colonade, sometimes being faster is all you need to take the game.
Vs Bant Eternal Gifts Control
"Slightly Favorable"
This deck is hardly seeing much play, but still it is a very solid control deck that should probably deserve more play. Life totals really don't matter much in this matchup, having open mana matters more and even more so it's really about who is able to establish the inevitable board presence that takes over the game. Therefore, play very patiently and carefully, because one mistake and you may have lost your silver bullet to winning. Hand information cards like Inquisition of Korzilek, Thoughtseize, Duress are all-stars in this matchup, because this opponent plays a lot of countermagic, with the known hand info you can try to play around the countermagic and resolving a Geist of Saint Traft is a huge advantage against them.
Postboard Liliana and Smothers are not too important here. Replace them with Negate to help against their countermagic and Aven Mindcensor to shut down Gifts Ungiven.
Moving Foward and Hopes for this Thread:
Thank you for your time in reading this thread and for providing any constructive discussions or recommendations I do hope to get some support from you guys, the forum community. And that hopefully moving forward this thread can evolve into a solid primer for Esper Midrange.
I am also in need for help to design a nice banner for this thread, please let me know if you would like to help
That being said, thank you all once again, and hope you all enjoy the Modern format. Cheers
Really similar to my sig deck in mb and sb. I started with 4 kitchen finks, but I switched to squad hawk, I dont think kitchen finks is good right now. Creeping tar pit is super good, hand disruption is hot right now, this deck should do good. You should try rest in peace vs jund, it turns off souls, goyf and drs, it might help you to have a favorable match.
Thanks Indeed Rest in Peace would help against some of Jund's creatures. I guess it helps against their Kitchen Finks too. Thanks, I shall incorporate this point into the Matchups section. Nonetheless, I still do find their Bloodbraid Elf a more disturbing problem.
I just realized the announcement that Bloodbraid Elf will be banned with effect Feb 2013. This is wonderful news from Wizards I will be making updates to the thread, especially for the Jund Matchup.
This is currently the list I'm testing for the upcoming Modern PTQ.
Deathrite Shamans are all-stars in this deck, whether it is for enabling a T2 Geist or removing reanimation/Snappie targets, or even just being Sword-bearers. Lingering Souls provides that much needed board presence in a deck with not many creatures. The spirit tokens can also carry Swords which is a plus.
For the sideboard, Aura of Silence is traditional Artifact/Enchantment hate, but I' hoping it's fast enough to slow Affinity/Robots down (haven't tested much against them yet).
^
Hi Pand3m0nia thanks for coming by to support this thread and for sharing your decklist. It's been quite quiet here other than my updates and I was starting to worry if this thread may have been in any way unappealing to the audience.
Let's begin by me saying that I can tell that you have put in quite an amount of insight and effort formulating and playtesting your presented decklist. Before I start sharing my thoughts, I must disclaim that I am not really in any position to give you any answers because this is your deck after all, but I would present some questions to try to help out in your thought process in your quest to enhance this decklist, I may also present some of the decisions that I would make if in my position, but they are just my preferences and thus reasonably debatable if you should prefer otherwise
On the Mainboard,
Indeed Deathrite Shaman is truly such a efficient creature that I have questioned myself if I should include, well since this deck already includes Black, why not splash in a little green and voila this shaman comes in. And he is by itself just that versatile and effective. But I have started this thread as a variant that adds black to the conventional UW Midrange and have yet to go so far to explore the 4th color splash yet, nonetheless I do welcome you all to share a 4C variant, and yours truly is interesting, and I should certainly playtest it to understand the finer details.
Overall, having gone without Restoration Angel, Thundermaw Hellkite, Baneslayer Angel etc, I can understand the lower curve, and I must say cheap and good spells are excellent. And that must have been a significant factor justifying your lower land counts as compared to more traditional versions. Just a question, has 22 Lands been sufficiently comfortable for you?
I have always felt that one of the biggest reasons why Lingering Souls was so good in Legacy Esper Stoneblade was because they could wield an Umezza's Jitte, weapons work splendidly with the soul tokens, and I see your fair share of swords incorporated into your main. Jund Midrange was one of the biggest of users of Abrupt Decay, the biggest bane of the swords and some say perhaps the reason for the recent falling popularity of the swords, but Jund recently lost Bloodbraid Elf and their influence in the meta is now shrouded with many questions, but BUG is still strong and Junk may see an uprising and if they significantly play Abrupt Decay, I am quite concern for your swords. Thus, would you be expecting to see Abrupt Decay being heavily played in your upcoming PTQ meta? If so, would you be able to accept your swords being blown up? If yes, way to go, you can fight fearlessly. If not, what can you do either to prevent or recover from it (ie. possible to use Academy Ruins to "repair" the swords)?
About the swords, have you tried out Mutavault, a cheap activation manland capable of bearing a sword makes an opponent with mana leaks in his/her hands scream in his/her head lol.
On the discard spells, how was your experience with Duress? Would it be better for you if they were Thoughtseize? Granted that I understand that Thoughtseize is an expensive card (in terms of money), would you then not prefer just a full set of 4 Inquisition of Korzilek instead. I don't know about your experience with Modern, but I always felt that Duress is better than Inquisition of Korzilek in Legacy, while Inquisition of Korzilek is better than Duress in Modern. The reason being that the Modern format seems more dominated by creature spells (particularly exhibited by creature-based combo decks like Twin, Pod, Infect), and cheap spells we all like in such a non-rotating format.
How has Remand been working out for you? The debate of Remand vs Mana Leak is one that is common in Modern, Correct if I am wrong but I read that some people say that Remand fits in better to a tempo deck, do you agree? And if so, would you think that your plan for this deck is heavily focus on tempo plays? And more interestingly, what are your thoughts on any countermagic alternatives?
How has Spell Pierce and Spell Snare been coming along for you? Personally, as I have explained about the restrictions of Blue Magic in my thread, I would prefer to use more discard or removal in place of soft or narrow countermagic in Modern
That being said, since your deck is splashing in Green, would it be to mana-greedy to consider replacing Spell Pierce and Spell Snare with spells like Abrupt Decay and/Or Maelstrom Pulse. If Spell Pierce and Spell Snare helps to prevent non-land non-creature threats (which creature removal could otherwise not have dealt with) from resolving, wouldn't Abrupt Decay and/Or Maelstrom Pulse be hard (destruction) and less narrow answers to non-land cards inclusive of both creatures and non-creatures.
Shizo, Death's Storehouse is very interesting and one that I have not thought of, could you please share with us on how effective it has been for you?
On the Sideboard,
Aura of Silence: Yes indeed, speed is the biggest question if you get it and could cast it out before Affinity builds their board presence. I would also consider Artifact hate to also help us against the Tron Matchup, against artifacts like Expedition Map and Mindslaver, and I don't know about you but I felt taxing to pay extra mana didn't really help to deter them, neither does a spot destruction on an artifact since they play Academy Ruins. Thus I have personally preferred to lock them down and therefore concluded on Stony Silence as my artifact hate of choice
Hurkyl's Recall: Against Affinity, my apologies but I find Hurkyl's Recall questionable. Affinity is very fast, and they can play things like Memnites, Ornithopters and Mox Opal for free. Ever since their Legacy days till now in Modern, they are notorious for that with a god hand, they can drop their entire hand or reasonably around 75% of their hand out in just 1 turn, therefore I question the effectiveness of returning artifacts back to hand. Afterall, you wouldn't want to bounce all the Affinity's toys back to his/her hand and have him/her drop in all down before you in one turn.
Leyline of Sanctity is a good call, I guess it would also help protect you against Grapeshot (if storm is not killed off by the lost of Seething Song)
GY Hate: Indeed Relic of Progenitus as is Tormod's Crypt is classic GY hate, hmm but when you think about it. could your opponents try to play around it to bait you to blow them out early. This is the risk of these artifacts, but since you play Deathrite Shaman and Snapcaster Mage, I understand your difficulties in trying to include GY hate that are a little bit more thorough And practically speaking, Deathrite Shaman is already a MB GY hate card
Pithing Needle: I thought about it, but passed it for other SB cards (afterall 15 cards isn't too much of a space ) Just like to find out from you, which are the matchups the needle helped you against?
All in all, I can appreciate and praise your efforts in assembling this deck and your playtesting I wish you all the best for your upcoming Modern PTQ. Cheers
Overall, having gone without Restoration Angel, Thundermaw Hellkite, Baneslayer Angel etc, I can understand the lower curve, and I must say cheap and good spells are excellent. And that must have been a significant factor justifying your lower land counts as compared to more traditional versions. Just a question, has 22 Lands been sufficiently comfortable for you?
22 lands has actually been more than enough, and I'm frequently tempted to cut it down to 21 lands, although one of the guys I test with has advised against it.
I have always felt that one of the biggest reasons why Lingering Souls was so good in Legacy Esper Stoneblade was because they could wield an Umezza's Jitte, weapons work splendidly with the soul tokens, and I see your fair share of swords incorporated into your main. Jund Midrange was one of the biggest of users of Abrupt Decay, the biggest bane of the swords and some say perhaps the reason for the recent falling popularity of the swords, but Jund recently lost Bloodbraid Elf and their influence in the meta is now shrouded with many questions, but BUG is still strong and Junk may see an uprising and if they significantly play Abrupt Decay, I am quite concern for your swords. Thus, would you be expecting to see Abrupt Decay being heavily played in your upcoming PTQ meta? If so, would you be able to accept your swords being blown up? If yes, way to go, you can fight fearlessly. If not, what can you do either to prevent or recover from it (ie. possible to use Academy Ruins to "repair" the swords)?
Jund is reasonably popular deck in my meta, but especially after the banning of BBE I don't know if there will still be that many Jund decks. But yes, even though Abrupt Decay blows up Swords, your opponent still has to draw it while you have a Sword out and before their face is bashed in, which may mean mainboarding the SoFaF in place of one of the other Swords. I like the idea of Academy Ruins, except the manabase is rather tight, so I need to see if I can fit 1 in.
About the swords, have you tried out Mutavault, a cheap activation manland capable of bearing a sword makes an opponent with mana leaks in his/her hands scream in his/her head lol.
I haven't actually tried Mutavault since I don't possess the card and it seems a bit narrow, and I much rather prefer Celestial Collonade and Creeping Tar Pit; especially the fact that Creeping Tar Pit is unblockable
On the discard spells, how was your experience with Duress? Would it be better for you if they were Thoughtseize? Granted that I understand that Thoughtseize is an expensive card (in terms of money), would you then not prefer just a full set of 4 Inquisition of Korzilek instead. I don't know about your experience with Modern, but I always felt that Duress is better than Inquisition of Korzilek in Legacy, while Inquisition of Korzilek is better than Duress in Modern. The reason being that the Modern format seems more dominated by creature spells (particularly exhibited by creature-based combo decks like Twin, Pod, Infect), and cheap spells we all like in such a non-rotating format.
So far Duress has proven to be quite effective. Thoughtseize would be the ideal replacement (if I possessed them), but Duress hits combo pieces, counters, as well as 4cc removal such as Supreme Verdict which Inquisition does not. I'm still trying to decide if I want the full set of Inquisitions or not.
How has Remand been working out for you? The debate of Remand vs Mana Leak is one that is common in Modern, Correct if I am wrong but I read that some people say that Remand fits in better to a tempo deck, do you agree? And if so, would you think that your plan for this deck is heavily focus on tempo plays? And more interestingly, what are your thoughts on any countermagic alternatives?
Ah, the Remand vs Mana Leak debate :P. I agree that Remand is usually found in more tempo-based decks, and even though this deck is more mid-rangy I'm still a Tempo player at heart and that's why Remand is still there. I may end up testing with Mana Leaks though, but the draw effect is just so powerful.
How has Spell Pierce and Spell Snare been coming along for you? Personally, as I have explained about the restrictions of Blue Magic in my thread, I would prefer to use more discard or removal in place of soft or narrow countermagic in Modern
That being said, since your deck is splashing in Green, would it be to mana-greedy to consider replacing Spell Pierce and Spell Snare with spells like Abrupt Decay and/Or Maelstrom Pulse. If Spell Pierce and Spell Snare helps to prevent non-land non-creature threats (which creature removal could otherwise not have dealt with) from resolving, wouldn't Abrupt Decay and/Or Maelstrom Pulse be hard (destruction) and less narrow answers to non-land cards inclusive of both creatures and non-creatures.
Spell Pierce and Spell Snare are personal favourites, Spell Pierce for it's ability to stop most removal as well as Planeswalkers, particularly Lili; while Spell Snare stops a lot of relevant things in Modern, Snapcaster, Goyf, and Bob. Currently, the only splash for Green is for Deathrite's ability once in a while. I don't think making the deck 4 colours is quite what we want to be doing at the moment. Although the mention of Maelstrom Pulse did make me consider the possibility of Detention Sphere.
Shizo, Death's Storehouse is very interesting and one that I have not thought of, could you please share with us on how effective it has been for you?
Most of the times Shizo is just a swamp, but once in a while it makes Geist basically unblockable, virtually guaranteeing 6 points of damage. It basically fulfils a similar purpose to what Eiganjo Castle does/did in American Delver lists.
Aura of Silence: Yes indeed, speed is the biggest question if you get it and could cast it out before Affinity builds their board presence. I would also consider Artifact hate to also help us against the Tron Matchup, against artifacts like Expedition Map and Mindslaver, and I don't know about you but I felt taxing to pay extra mana didn't really help to deter them, neither does a spot destruction on an artifact since they play Academy Ruins. Thus I have personally preferred to lock them down and therefore concluded on Stony Silence as my artifact hate of choice
Hurkyl's Recall: Against Affinity, my apologies but I find Hurkyl's Recall questionable. Affinity is very fast, and they can play things like Memnites, Ornithopters and Mox Opal for free. Ever since their Legacy days till now in Modern, they are notorious for that with a god hand, they can drop their entire hand or reasonably around 75% of their hand out in just 1 turn, therefore I question the effectiveness of returning artifacts back to hand. Afterall, you wouldn't want to bounce all the Affinity's toys back to his/her hand and have him/her drop in all down before you in one turn.
You may be right there, I haven't had much chance to test against Affinity, I'm still trying to decide the best way of sideboarding for them, but I think you underestimate Hurkyl's Recall; you slow them down a turn, you also have the potential to counter relevant spells (Spell Snare stops Cranial Plating as well). And sometimes that extra turn or 2 is all you need.
Pithing Needle: I thought about it, but passed it for other SB cards (afterall 15 cards isn't too much of a space ) Just like to find out from you, which are the matchups the needle helped you against?
It's useful vs Eggs, Tron (you can name Karn), Jund (naming Treetop Village, since naming Liliana hurts us too), Affinity (naming Cranial Plating)
Another thing, what are your thoughts on Esper Charm and Mortify sideboard, or maybe even mainboard?
22 lands has actually been more than enough, and I'm frequently tempted to cut it down to 21 lands, although one of the guys I test with has advised against it.
Glad to know you feel that way, less lands means more business spells. Nice.
I haven't actually tried Mutavault since I don't possess the card and it seems a bit narrow, and I much rather prefer Celestial Collonade and Creeping Tar Pit; especially the fact that Creeping Tar Pit is unblockable
Certainly I favour Tar Pit a lot too :). But the reason why I suggested Mutavault was that it was cheaper to activate it into a man and probably you will often find enough mana to equip it with a sword and perhaps even have open mana left. This is a very advantageous position to be in when you and your opponent are playing a topdecking game But I do notice that putting anymore colorless mana source may hurt your land base too. So for that reason, Mutavaults may be a little too risky indeed.
Ah, the Remand vs Mana Leak debate :P. I agree that Remand is usually found in more tempo-based decks, and even though this deck is more mid-rangy I'm still a Tempo player at heart and that's why Remand is still there. I may end up testing with Mana Leaks though, but the draw effect is just so powerful.
Certainly, the fact that Remand replaces itself is helpful, and our decks (including the conventional UW Midrange) have willingly sacrificed away card draw for more game-impacting cards. Nonetheless, I still hope WOTC releases a better countermagic in future for the Modern format hehe.
Although the mention of Maelstrom Pulse did make me consider the possibility of Detention Sphere.
Haha, indeed I am thinking about the sphere too, but yet again and for this based on my experience from Standard, I am cautious about Abrupt Decay, and the breaking of a sphere is very bad, since the threat returns (unless if they were tokens) it can be very much a game changer that puts us into dire situations. Nonetheless, still worth playtesting with
Most of the times Shizo is just a swamp, but once in a while it makes Geist basically unblockable, virtually guaranteeing 6 points of damage. It basically fulfils a similar purpose to what Eiganjo Castle does/did in American Delver lists.
Interesting, I should try it out
You may be right there, I haven't had much chance to test against Affinity, I'm still trying to decide the best way of sideboarding for them, but I think you underestimate Hurkyl's Recall; you slow them down a turn, you also have the potential to counter relevant spells (Spell Snare stops Cranial Plating as well). And sometimes that extra turn or 2 is all you need.
Haha perhaps, sometimes a turn or 2 is indeed all you need, but sometimes it may not be I'd rather not take any chances. But I guess for your deck you may prefer to destroy artifacts or send them into the GY, making those artifact creatures lunch for your DRS haha. But I have heard that Affinity has been less popular recently, an interesting question, would you envision it coming back up in popularity again? And would you expect to see a significant number of them in your upcoming PTQ?
Another thing, what are your thoughts on Esper Charm and Mortify sideboard, or maybe even mainboard?
I did thought about them, but I prefer to keep my instants/sorcery at most at 2 casting cost, so that it wouldn't be much inconvenience in flashing back them with Tiago.
They both do target enchantments as well. Thus far, I have not struggled much with enchantments. Does your meta have any enchantment heavy decks or have you faced any enchantment that has been heavily played against you and have been giving you headaches?
While looking through some Modern Daily decklists I found this list by Draccon136 who went 3-1 (Modern Daily #4910670 on 01/23/2013)
Deck
Creatures (19)
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Meddling Mage
3 Snapcaster Mage
I think lilliana is must have in this deck. She destroys uw control if you can get her out early, she also is good vs auras, and most other decks, the -2 is really good right now with all the Gost running around.
I think lilliana is must have in this deck. She destroys uw control if you can get her out early, she also is good vs auras, and most other decks, the -2 is really good right now with all the Gost running around.
Given the current meta and the popularity of geist decks, I am incline to agree. Hmm but would you suggest playing as a 4-of and what would you suggest I take out to add her in?
Given the the popularity of removal/burn, I am rather hesitant to play Dark Confidant and Meddling Mage. Disfigure helps against most of the smaller creatures and it has a low mana cost, worth testing with, but if given a choice I'd prefer a more versatile removal. I am not that keen on Zealous Persecution, what do you think about it? Without any equipment to wield, I am less keen on Lingering Souls. Countersquall is an interesting idea, I may want to try it, would you think a 1 to 2-of is even viable mainboard?
Given the the popularity of removal/burn, I am rather hesitant to play Dark Confidant and Meddling Mage. Disfigure helps against most of the smaller creatures and it has a low mana cost, worth testing with, but if given a choice I'd prefer a more versatile removal. I am not that keen on Zealous Persecution, what do you think about it? Without any equipment to wield, I am less keen on Lingering Souls. Countersquall is an interesting idea, I may want to try it, would you think a 1 to 2-of is even viable mainboard?
Even though there is a lot of removal and burn I still think running 4 Deathrite Shamans is a good idea since their versatility is unrivalled. I'm also not completely sold on Disfigure (due to its narrowness) or Zealous Persecution, yes it has some nifty combat tricks and such, but I don't think it is good enough to be Mainboard IMO.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Decklist:
10 Creatures:
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Vendilion Clique
17 Instants
4 Path to Exile
3 Mana Leak
4 Disfigure
2 Go for the throat
2 Geth's Verdict
2 Smother
9 Sorcery
4 Lingering Souls
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
24 Lands:
4 Marsh Flats
4 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Celestial Colonade
1 Vault of the Archangels
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
2 Watery Grave
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Darkslick Shores
2 Seachrome coast
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Negates
2 Stony Silence
2 Celestial Purge
2 Torpor Orb
3 Timely Reinforcements
MB:
18 Creatures:
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Planeswalker
3 Liliana of the Veil
12 Instants
4 Path to Exile
2 Mana Leak
3 Disfigure
2 Go for the throat
1 Smother
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
23 Lands:
4 Marsh Flats
4 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Celestial Colonade
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Watery Grave
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Darkslick Shores
2 Seachrome coast
Introduction:
I would not consider this a primer yet, but seek to present a variant of the conventional UW midrange deck that we all know of by introducing a 3rd color, black. Nevertheless, I do hope that moving forward I can have support from you guys, the forum community to help to improve this thread into a primer for this deck type
Hence, this is my latest construction of an Esper Midrange deck for the Modern format. For your constructive discussions and recommendations for any genuine improvements. Thank you.
History and References:
UW Midrange as we all know does not have a very long history, well afterall Modern is still a rather new format, but neither is UW Midrange the new kid on the block or a fluke. It as well as its recent Raka variant has certainly proven themselves as competitive in the format.
With regards to UW midrange, we have had a thread discussing about it for sometime, as referred here.
Recently, a primer was created for UW Midrange, as referred here. Since the owner of the primer has expressed his wish for his primer to stay close to specifically UW, I respect his wishes and present this separate thread to discuss mainly about the Esper variant.
Why Esper? Why add Black?
Because blue is too restrained in modern, and has lost much of its original power that would otherwise have existed in Legacy or even certain periods of Standard.
Throughout the history of MTG, Blue magic has been well known or perhaps even notorious for many reasons, some of which that stands out is its draw spells and countermagic.
But in Modern...
Draw Spells: Brainstorm is irrelevant. Ponder and even Preordain are banned, leaving many of us left to take up subpar draw spells like serum visions etc.
Countermagic: Where is the good old plain and simple Counterspell? Honestly, what is Mana Leak or even Remand compared to it? Counterspell was just plain simple and effective. just counter target spell, no buts, no more, no less.
To compensate for Blue's lost of power, other colors may need to come in to overcome this problem. Some said Red, and thus it has been proven the competitiveness of Raka (WUR) Restoration Midrange. But I say "Black", because:
- Discard is better than countermagic in Modern (feel free to disagree, this is just my opinion), and Jund in its own ways proved it. If countermagic is not good enough, I mind as well see your hand, get information on your game plan, and pluck away from your hand what I don't like.
- Lighting Bolt/Lightning Helix does not suffice to remove Tarmogoyf, Kitchen Fink, Raging Ravine, Deceiver Exarch, Restoration Angel Etc. Dismember does, but you wouldn't want to always pay 4 life to cast each of it. And Smother kills many things even the famous and pricey Tarmogoyf.
- Creeping Tar Pit is effective, but much cheaper in mana cost than Celestial Colonade. And I just like it cheap and good, don't we?
Modern Esper Midrange
EDH Jenara ETB
Well, there is no why, it's really all up to you man. You may feel Blue and White is good enough for you, carry on. You may feel that you want to use the flames of Red magic and chuck those bolts of fire at your opponent's face, by all means, continue. But...
But if like me, you feel that Blue is just not enough to complement White, and Red just ain't good enough to take out many of your opponent's beaters, and thus you decide to turn to the forces of darkness, seek to take control the powers of the Black arts and fuse it with your blue and white magic, then Esper Midrange it is...
(What about Green? I shall leave that for someone else to talk about.)
Why Play this deck?
- You want to play a midrange deck, but you don't have 4 tarmogoyf and 4 Dark Confidant, and hmph pardon me but neither do you wish to sell your butt for them. Or you do not believe that in Modern, "midrange=Jund", "midrange=Jund", "midrange=Jund", "midrange=OH SHUT UPPPP!!!" and you wish you have another option for the midrange path.
- You like to have the vesatility to disrupt your opponents on 3 fronts by using discard, countermagic and removal, instead of the usual 2 ways of removal + countermagic or removal + discard.
- You still like to play at the end of your opponents' turn or anytime during his/her turn at instant speed, while you also like sorceries that let you look at your opponent's hand, take a note and write down his cards, and choose the one that you dislike and bin it.
- You hate your opponent having creatures on board, and enjoy destroying or removing them.
- You like some of your creatures to be able to strike from the sky or are even unblockable.
- you like reusing instants and sorceries from your graveyard.
Why not play this deck?
- You like to combo and hmph play with yourself. You don't like interaction and you believe that your opponent across the table should just be a statue.
- You like to drop an Emrakul on the board.
- You like copying things infinite times.
- You like a rigid, linear and specificly clear-defined strategy.
- You like playing unfair decks.
- You like to flood the board with creatures and play pure, straightfoward aggro.
- You are a pure control-freak, and just like to play very long games whereby you just sit staring at your opponent do things and you are do nothing else except denying everything that he/she does, until he/she just scoops and walks away with feeling so rejected.
Card Choices:
Creatures:
Restoration Angel:
She is the star of this deck, her blink effect has synergy with most of our other creatures (ie. Snapcaster mage, Blade Splicer, Vendilion Clique, and even a combat trick with Geist of Saint Traft). And unless if future cards from MTG either replace or invalidates her usefulness, she shall unquestionably remain a staple in this deck type.
Snapcaster Mage:
The deck obviously lacks draw spells, but Tiago allows us the recursion that still provides us another form of card advantage (reusing binned cards, while not needing to use that from your hand). Likewise a staple.
Geist of Saint Traft:
Often a finisher. It is not unusual for you to win games by sitting and swinging with one Geist of Saint Traft while clearing his path with removal. He is one of the main reasons for the high removal count in this deck which is not unusual since decks like Raka Delver played a high count for their burn/removal package too, our reason like theirs is simply just to clear the path for him.
Hexproof has proven itself a pain to many, and it seems like WOTC is recognising this and thus at the time of this thread's creation, designed hexproof "hate" cards (ie. Glaring Spotlight from Gatecrash). Therefore, moving forward, I am not sure if he may be relatively weaken to a state of being invalid, but that is an issue for then and there, for now his is considered a staple.
Blade Splicer:
It's simple, One spell, two bodies, one of them with 1st strike, that's good value. But both bodies are still within Lightning bolt range. An advantageous card, but not entirely broken. Blinking it with Restoration Angel is just awesome, way to go, first strike golem army. The colorless golem also helps to block Etched Champion of Robots/Affinity.
Kitchen Finks:
I like this guy, he is resilient to destruction type effects. Blink it with Restoration Angel to gain more life and to remove the "persisted" status. I prefer this over Blade Splicer against decks that play burn or destruction based removal like Jund and RDW, but I prefer Blade Splicer against decks that play Path to Exile.
Vendilion Clique:
More hand information and disruption, flash and playing on our opponent's turns is what we like to do. Blink it with Restoration Angel for another time of hand disruption.
Tidehollow Sculler: W+B, and you get to see your opponent's hand and sit on a non-land. He is partial hand disruption on legs. Some argue that eventhough you don't really discard the chosen card, but you delay it's usage and waste a removal/burn from your opponent. Some did rather clear-cut discard that bins the chosen spell. What do you think?
Instants and Sorceries:
Path to Exile:
Takes out Kitchen Finks, and huge creatures. Well it helps to "ramp" the opponent's lands, but one of the ideas of this deck is "What's the point of your opponent having so many lands, if he/she is out of resources."
Dismember:
Particularly for Tarmogoyf since it averages out as a 4/5 or 5/6. It kills a 4/5 goyf, and oh let me block your 5/6 goyf with my Geist of Saint Traft, oh yes I am shrinking your goyf to a 0/1 And as we are playing black mana producing lands, we do not always have to suffer 4 damage from casting each of these, unlike our UW/UWR counterparts.
Smother:
Formats like Legacy and Modern having a large card pool is mainly represented with decks with low mana curves. We all want spells that are cheap and good. And for such creatures, smother takes them out, no matter how big they can become (ie. Da Goyfffff).
Mana Leak:
It's most effective early game but probably ineffective late game. But what other choice do we have, Remand? Hmm I don't think our strategy is dedicated to tempo play. I don't like manaleak, I wish it was a Counterspell, but what can I say, I still need some form of countermagic, it does help to say no to casting planeswalkers, etched champion, equipment, artifacts etc, and sometimes it protects your killing strike. Let's hope for some new countermagic to replace it in future, but for now it's more or less a necessary evil.
Spell snare:
No doubt a lot of good spells in Modern cost 2 mana, but the restriction is still significantly narrow. I'd rather use the space for removal and discard that have better flexibility.
Devour Flesh
At the time of writing, this new card was being released. So the new "Edict" "Swords". 2 casting cost is acceptable, instant speed is right for this deck, the sacrificial effect helps deal with opposing Geist of Saint Traft, but the life gain is questionable, what do you think?
Gonna give this a try.
Inquisition of Kozilek/Thoughtseize:
Discard is awesome in modern, and decks like Jund proved it. But why only 4 of them in total? Because we did not get a WB Scar's Land (WOTC PLEASE GIVE US A WB SCARLAND...). You want to cast this very very early game, hopefully turn 1, while it's less effective later in the game, but not getting black source on turn one hurts it. You all may say we have Darkslick Shores, but we have given up a lot of our UB land space to Creeping Tarpit.
This is however not a problem and you can up the discard spell count, if you are playing Celestial Colonade as your manland of choice, and can therefore pack in a set Darkslick Shores.
Planeswalker:
Liliana of the Veil:
Yes she can come in here, and helps against the mirror match against opposing geists, but since we lack card draw, I am a little worried about her +1. What do you guys think?
Lands:
Creeping Tar Pit:
UW midrange used Celestial Colonade, but I prefer this guy due to the lower activation cost and it being unblockable.
Fairie Conclave:
Another manland, somewhat resembles Jund's Treetop Village, but it's smaller and has evasion
Tectonic Edge/Moorland Haunt???
Adding them to our mana base as a 3 color deck can be rather risky. But if you find that risk acceptable and worth taking, then please by all means add them in.
Seachrome Coast:
Helps to give us early game UW mana. As mentioned earlier, You can replace them for DarkSlick Shores if you are playing Celestial Colonade.
Shock lands, Fetch lands and Basics:
Well, we all need them don't we.
Sideboard:
Supreme Verdict: vs "spam" aggro decks.
rest in peace: gy hate vs Storm's Past in Flames Engine, Loam, Reanimator, Vengevine etc.
Negate: Hard Counter to help vs Storm, Twin, Scapeshift etc.
Stony Silence: Artifact hate vs Tron, Eggs, Affinity/Roboots etc.
Celestial Purge: Vs RDW, Jund, Junk etc.
Disenchant: Post SB Enchantment hate
Aven MindCensor: Vs Tron, stops them from searching
Engineered Explosives: Something like a boardwipe, another choice rather than Supreme Verdict, but it's capable of handling non-creatures.
Matchups:
Vs Jund:
"Even"
This game usually plays out with a lot of 1-for-1 trades and ends up with an empty board on both sides and a topdecking game, this is where if you cannot answer a Bloodbraid Elf, they would be miles ahead of you and you are in big trouble. (IMO WOTC, pleaseeee ban that cheater, Bloodbraid Elf!!! But that's just IMO).
Unless if they have Maelstrom Pulse ready, the Blade Splicer + Restoration Angel shenanigans gives them quite a headache. If you can deny Liliana of the Veil from resolving (that accompanied with our high removal count to clear the way), or waste Liliana of the Veil -2 ability (by perhaps flashing another creature to be sac) there's nothing much they can do about Geist of Saint Traft.
Post Sideboard, Celestial Purge provides additional exile-type removal capable of disposing their Liliana of the Veil. Rest In Peace totally negates Deathrite Shaman. Shrinks Tarmogoyf into an ant, puts those Lingering Souls to rest, and if I am not wrong brings "despair" to Kitchen Finks.
(Note: Bloodbraid Elf is to be banned with effect Feb 2013, this section is pending updates)
VS GW Hatebears
"Even" to "Slightly Favourable"
A deck filled with hate that walk on legs, and for things that walk on legs we have a deck packed with 10 spot removals waiting to meet them. The only problem as usual is that the walkers that are being swarmed out outpaces our removal/disruption, and the classic way they achieve this is by the old Aether Vial (I call it Aether "Vile", oh free creature spells that can be "flashed" in ain't fair, pal...).
Postboard Disenchant or some artifact hate to deal with the "Vile" will help slow them down, Board wipes on the other hand punishes them for overextending.
Vs Affinity/Robots
Game 1 "Slightly not in our favor", Postboard "favorable"
They are fast, very fast, and they swarm like ants, spot removal may not be enough to kill them all one at a time. Galvanic blast and shrapnel blast each packs a bigger punch than the usual lightning bolt. Etched Champion is a pain, but fortunately we have the colorless golem token from Blade Splicer to block it. Postboard bring in your board wipes, stony silence and even Disenchant, and hope you have any of these in your hand and you have the mana available to cast them.
Vs Zoo
"Slight Favorable" to "Even"
So they lost Wild Nacatl, but are they really dead??? I don't think so, perhaps back then they seen too much play then they should and these days they are seeing too little play than they really deserve. They are still fast and very aggressive. Their blue splash gives them access to Geist of Saint Traft and Snapcaster Mage, so what? So with all five colors lands, Tribal Flames + Snapcaster Mage flashback Tribal Flames means 10 damage using a total of only 6 mana, doesn't that scare you???
Our high removal count helps to deal with their creatures, except Geist of Saint Traft, but Inquisition of Korzilek and Geist's Legend Rule helps us against it. They are aggro and very often you are control. The problem as usual is that they spam out creatures in quantities that our spot removal cannot keep up with. Post sideboard sweepers will definitely help, since they lack card draw and therefore are unlikely to recover from a blow out from overextending.
Vs Delver Tempo
"Favorable"
We pack 10 removal spells that deals with everyone of their creatures except Geist of Saint Traft, but we have Geist of Saint Traft too and can "legend rule' to get rid of theirs. Though not listed above in the decklist, playing black also allow us to play Liliana of the Veil (some of you may prefer to have her in your deck, I like her too, but I am worried that this deck does not play any card draw to overcome the loss from her +1) which is a bane to the lonely spirit swordsman. Our discard also hurts them a lot since their curve usually tops at 3, so Inquisition of Korzilek is free to target all their non-land spells. Their burn does not work on all of our creatures and Restoration Angel adds on to this problem for them, but be careful not to let your life total drop too low, or the burn spells can take you out, so be careful not to pay too much life for your black spells and fetch and shock lands.
Vs Tron.
Game 1 "Slightly not in our favor", Postboard "favorable"
I have not tried dueling against UW Tron yet, so that is pending. Against RG Tron, unlike our UW predecessors, we do not maindeck tectonic edge (you can try, but I find that risky for our landbase since we play 3 colors). Game 1 we just have to go on the offense and try to kill them before they assemble the tron lands and bring out their bombs. Game 2, lock them down! Aven mindcensor stops them from searching for their pieces, stony silence locks their artifacts and mindslavers, then give them the beatdown.
Vs Twin Combo
"Favorable"
We mainboard 10 removal spells so creature-based decks, even creature-based combo decks can be like a walk in the park for us, shoot their combo pieces while beating them down. Discard also helps you pluck off their countermagic.
Vs Pod Decks
Pending. Open for you all to share your experience in this matchup.
Vs Storm
Game 1 "Not in our favor", Postboard "favorable" if you have graveyard hate and hard counters ready
Non-interactive at all. Do not let the game drag out too long, on a side note I noticed that good storm players wouldn't try to combo off asap, they would rather take their time to build up many lands and then combo off when they are confident they can end the game or they are pressurized and compelled to take a chance to go off before you kill them off, the reason is that a developed manabase allows them to play around manaleak and remand, and even if they are stopped in their combo, they hope to have enough mana to recover and resume the combo. Game one you can only try to kill them asap or hope their combo fizzle. Game two use graveyard hate to shut down their Past In Flames engine to slow them down and on top of that you must, I repeat you musttt beat them down and keep that pressure on them.
(Note: Seething Song is to be banned with effect Feb 2013, this section is pending updates)
Vs Infect:
"Unfavorable" to "Even"
They are like affinity, very fast and even more explosive. Their "weapons", the pump spells come mainly in the form of instants and sorceries, except for Rancor, and all weapons need a weapon bearer, the body, the creature to be armed with it. Thus, focus your removal and most of disruption on the creatures, and try not to let them have more than one weapon bearer on the board, because "what is the point of the swords when they have no one to wield them". The 1st four to five turns are critical, survive that and you would have enough mana for a postboard board wipe. So again, deny them of their weapon bearers, keep the beatdown on them to win.
Vs eggs.
Pending. Open for you all to share your experience in this matchup.But I fear that it's like storm, but we need artifact hate to lock down this omelette.
Vs RDW/Red Burn:
"Slightly Unfavorable" to "Even"
At the time of writing , RDW has taken a new incarnation with R not being "Red" but is now "Rakdos". Their black splash was to allow them to assimilate the new star, Deathrite Shaman and other black spells that support their game plan like Bump in the Night. The roles in this matchup is obvious, they are aggro, and we are often controlling. They are fast and can kill without attacking with their creatures. Deathrite Shaman is far more deadly here than most of the other archetypes, because his black mana effect further supports RDW's burning plan. All that player burn can quickly bring you down to dangerous levels of life totals, when
Deathrite Shaman acts as a repeatable burn that seeks to finish the game. Hence Deathrite Shaman is even more so a higher priority target to kill on sight here than most other decks, yes it's priority is perhaps even higher than Grim Lavamancer. With our high removal count and Blade Splicer wall, we are often not worried allowing Vexing Devil to resolve as a beater on the board.
Game 1 try to deny them card draw from Dark Confidant, be careful of your shocks and fetches in order to do your best to preserve your life points at comfortable levels, hold up and hopefully before they can bring your life total down to the red zone, they have runned out of steam. Blade Splicer two body effect can sometimes be used as a decoy to waste their player/creature burn. Geist of Saint Traft is certainly a fast clock they almost cannot do anything about, Restoration Angel evades their blockers and often takes more than 1 burn spell to take out.
Game 2 onwards, Rest in Peace trumps Deathrite Shaman and Bump in the Night, Celestial Purge provides additional removal or may be used to replace a few Dismember for you to still have a effective removal while not paying life for it.
Vs UW/UWR Midrange
I don't wanna start an arguement on which variant of UW Midrange is better, for this matter I respect the player's own choice. The focus here is strictly on the matchup only.
That being said, the key advantages this deck against them that you should bear in mind are:
- "Flash" decks have their "headquarters" in their hand rather than the board. Inquisition of Korzilek, Thoughtseize and discard really hurts that. At the very least, paying 1 black mana for the spell that forces your opponent to pay at least around 2 mana to counter is not a bad deal after all.
- These matchups are often about who can resolve Geist of Saint Traft and protect him (especially from combat). UW and UWR will find it very difficult to deal with yours onboard (aside from the legend rule), at least you have a Liliana of the Veil to deal with theirs.
- Creeping Tar Pit goes online faster and uses less mana than Celestial Colonade, sometimes being faster is all you need to take the game.
Vs Bant Eternal Gifts Control
"Slightly Favorable"
This deck is hardly seeing much play, but still it is a very solid control deck that should probably deserve more play. Life totals really don't matter much in this matchup, having open mana matters more and even more so it's really about who is able to establish the inevitable board presence that takes over the game. Therefore, play very patiently and carefully, because one mistake and you may have lost your silver bullet to winning. Hand information cards like Inquisition of Korzilek, Thoughtseize, Duress are all-stars in this matchup, because this opponent plays a lot of countermagic, with the known hand info you can try to play around the countermagic and resolving a Geist of Saint Traft is a huge advantage against them.
Postboard Liliana and Smothers are not too important here. Replace them with Negate to help against their countermagic and Aven Mindcensor to shut down Gifts Ungiven.
Moving Foward and Hopes for this Thread:
Thank you for your time in reading this thread and for providing any constructive discussions or recommendations I do hope to get some support from you guys, the forum community. And that hopefully moving forward this thread can evolve into a solid primer for Esper Midrange.
I am also in need for help to design a nice banner for this thread, please let me know if you would like to help
That being said, thank you all once again, and hope you all enjoy the Modern format. Cheers
Modern Esper Midrange
EDH Jenara ETB
Modern Esper Midrange
EDH Jenara ETB
Modern Esper Midrange
EDH Jenara ETB
Modern Esper Midrange
EDH Jenara ETB
Modern Esper Midrange
EDH Jenara ETB
Modern Esper Midrange
EDH Jenara ETB
Modern Esper Midrange
EDH Jenara ETB
Modern Esper Midrange
EDH Jenara ETB
4 Liliana of the Veil
Creatures (11)
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Deathrite Shaman
Artifacts (2)
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Instants (12)
2 Smother
3 Path to Exile
3 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
Sorceries (9)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Duress
4 Lingering Souls
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Marsh Flats
2 Watery Grave
2 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Celestial Colonnade
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Breeding Pool
2 Aura of Silence
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Pithing Needle
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Relic of Progenitus
This is currently the list I'm testing for the upcoming Modern PTQ.
Deathrite Shamans are all-stars in this deck, whether it is for enabling a T2 Geist or removing reanimation/Snappie targets, or even just being Sword-bearers. Lingering Souls provides that much needed board presence in a deck with not many creatures. The spirit tokens can also carry Swords which is a plus.
Other cards that are being considered/were in previous builds include: Cryptic Command, Meddling Mage and Restoration Angel.
For the sideboard, Aura of Silence is traditional Artifact/Enchantment hate, but I' hoping it's fast enough to slow Affinity/Robots down (haven't tested much against them yet).
Leyline of Sanctity is for RDW, Eggs, Scapeshift, even Jund.
Pithing Needle is for Swords as well as Planeswalkers.
Supreme Verdict is board wipe vs aggro, tokens, Affinity
The Sword of Fest and Famine is mainly for Jund, although it helps vs Maverick, Hatebears, Elves.
Hurkyl's Recall is meant for Affinity.
Relic of Progenitus is tradional graveyard hate, although Tormod's Crypt is also a possibility.
So far this deck has proven to be rather resilient, and it can beat UWR Midrange, Tron and Scapeshift.
Your thoughts?
Hi Pand3m0nia thanks for coming by to support this thread and for sharing your decklist. It's been quite quiet here other than my updates and I was starting to worry if this thread may have been in any way unappealing to the audience.
Let's begin by me saying that I can tell that you have put in quite an amount of insight and effort formulating and playtesting your presented decklist. Before I start sharing my thoughts, I must disclaim that I am not really in any position to give you any answers because this is your deck after all, but I would present some questions to try to help out in your thought process in your quest to enhance this decklist, I may also present some of the decisions that I would make if in my position, but they are just my preferences and thus reasonably debatable if you should prefer otherwise
On the Mainboard,
Indeed Deathrite Shaman is truly such a efficient creature that I have questioned myself if I should include, well since this deck already includes Black, why not splash in a little green and voila this shaman comes in. And he is by itself just that versatile and effective. But I have started this thread as a variant that adds black to the conventional UW Midrange and have yet to go so far to explore the 4th color splash yet, nonetheless I do welcome you all to share a 4C variant, and yours truly is interesting, and I should certainly playtest it to understand the finer details.
I like the 4 Liliana of the Veils, the rise of UW variants mainboarding Geist of Saint Traft will certainly reward your Lilianas as a good meta call.
Overall, having gone without Restoration Angel, Thundermaw Hellkite, Baneslayer Angel etc, I can understand the lower curve, and I must say cheap and good spells are excellent. And that must have been a significant factor justifying your lower land counts as compared to more traditional versions. Just a question, has 22 Lands been sufficiently comfortable for you?
I have always felt that one of the biggest reasons why Lingering Souls was so good in Legacy Esper Stoneblade was because they could wield an Umezza's Jitte, weapons work splendidly with the soul tokens, and I see your fair share of swords incorporated into your main. Jund Midrange was one of the biggest of users of Abrupt Decay, the biggest bane of the swords and some say perhaps the reason for the recent falling popularity of the swords, but Jund recently lost Bloodbraid Elf and their influence in the meta is now shrouded with many questions, but BUG is still strong and Junk may see an uprising and if they significantly play Abrupt Decay, I am quite concern for your swords. Thus, would you be expecting to see Abrupt Decay being heavily played in your upcoming PTQ meta? If so, would you be able to accept your swords being blown up? If yes, way to go, you can fight fearlessly. If not, what can you do either to prevent or recover from it (ie. possible to use Academy Ruins to "repair" the swords)?
About the swords, have you tried out Mutavault, a cheap activation manland capable of bearing a sword makes an opponent with mana leaks in his/her hands scream in his/her head lol.
On the discard spells, how was your experience with Duress? Would it be better for you if they were Thoughtseize? Granted that I understand that Thoughtseize is an expensive card (in terms of money), would you then not prefer just a full set of 4 Inquisition of Korzilek instead. I don't know about your experience with Modern, but I always felt that Duress is better than Inquisition of Korzilek in Legacy, while Inquisition of Korzilek is better than Duress in Modern. The reason being that the Modern format seems more dominated by creature spells (particularly exhibited by creature-based combo decks like Twin, Pod, Infect), and cheap spells we all like in such a non-rotating format.
How has Remand been working out for you? The debate of Remand vs Mana Leak is one that is common in Modern, Correct if I am wrong but I read that some people say that Remand fits in better to a tempo deck, do you agree? And if so, would you think that your plan for this deck is heavily focus on tempo plays? And more interestingly, what are your thoughts on any countermagic alternatives?
How has Spell Pierce and Spell Snare been coming along for you? Personally, as I have explained about the restrictions of Blue Magic in my thread, I would prefer to use more discard or removal in place of soft or narrow countermagic in Modern
That being said, since your deck is splashing in Green, would it be to mana-greedy to consider replacing Spell Pierce and Spell Snare with spells like Abrupt Decay and/Or Maelstrom Pulse. If Spell Pierce and Spell Snare helps to prevent non-land non-creature threats (which creature removal could otherwise not have dealt with) from resolving, wouldn't Abrupt Decay and/Or Maelstrom Pulse be hard (destruction) and less narrow answers to non-land cards inclusive of both creatures and non-creatures.
Shizo, Death's Storehouse is very interesting and one that I have not thought of, could you please share with us on how effective it has been for you?
On the Sideboard,
Aura of Silence: Yes indeed, speed is the biggest question if you get it and could cast it out before Affinity builds their board presence. I would also consider Artifact hate to also help us against the Tron Matchup, against artifacts like Expedition Map and Mindslaver, and I don't know about you but I felt taxing to pay extra mana didn't really help to deter them, neither does a spot destruction on an artifact since they play Academy Ruins. Thus I have personally preferred to lock them down and therefore concluded on Stony Silence as my artifact hate of choice
Hurkyl's Recall: Against Affinity, my apologies but I find Hurkyl's Recall questionable. Affinity is very fast, and they can play things like Memnites, Ornithopters and Mox Opal for free. Ever since their Legacy days till now in Modern, they are notorious for that with a god hand, they can drop their entire hand or reasonably around 75% of their hand out in just 1 turn, therefore I question the effectiveness of returning artifacts back to hand. Afterall, you wouldn't want to bounce all the Affinity's toys back to his/her hand and have him/her drop in all down before you in one turn.
Leyline of Sanctity is a good call, I guess it would also help protect you against Grapeshot (if storm is not killed off by the lost of Seething Song)
GY Hate: Indeed Relic of Progenitus as is Tormod's Crypt is classic GY hate, hmm but when you think about it. could your opponents try to play around it to bait you to blow them out early. This is the risk of these artifacts, but since you play Deathrite Shaman and Snapcaster Mage, I understand your difficulties in trying to include GY hate that are a little bit more thorough And practically speaking, Deathrite Shaman is already a MB GY hate card
Pithing Needle: I thought about it, but passed it for other SB cards (afterall 15 cards isn't too much of a space ) Just like to find out from you, which are the matchups the needle helped you against?
All in all, I can appreciate and praise your efforts in assembling this deck and your playtesting I wish you all the best for your upcoming Modern PTQ. Cheers
Modern Esper Midrange
EDH Jenara ETB
22 lands has actually been more than enough, and I'm frequently tempted to cut it down to 21 lands, although one of the guys I test with has advised against it.
Jund is reasonably popular deck in my meta, but especially after the banning of BBE I don't know if there will still be that many Jund decks. But yes, even though Abrupt Decay blows up Swords, your opponent still has to draw it while you have a Sword out and before their face is bashed in, which may mean mainboarding the SoFaF in place of one of the other Swords. I like the idea of Academy Ruins, except the manabase is rather tight, so I need to see if I can fit 1 in.
I haven't actually tried Mutavault since I don't possess the card and it seems a bit narrow, and I much rather prefer Celestial Collonade and Creeping Tar Pit; especially the fact that Creeping Tar Pit is unblockable
So far Duress has proven to be quite effective. Thoughtseize would be the ideal replacement (if I possessed them), but Duress hits combo pieces, counters, as well as 4cc removal such as Supreme Verdict which Inquisition does not. I'm still trying to decide if I want the full set of Inquisitions or not.
Ah, the Remand vs Mana Leak debate :P. I agree that Remand is usually found in more tempo-based decks, and even though this deck is more mid-rangy I'm still a Tempo player at heart and that's why Remand is still there. I may end up testing with Mana Leaks though, but the draw effect is just so powerful.
Spell Pierce and Spell Snare are personal favourites, Spell Pierce for it's ability to stop most removal as well as Planeswalkers, particularly Lili; while Spell Snare stops a lot of relevant things in Modern, Snapcaster, Goyf, and Bob. Currently, the only splash for Green is for Deathrite's ability once in a while. I don't think making the deck 4 colours is quite what we want to be doing at the moment. Although the mention of Maelstrom Pulse did make me consider the possibility of Detention Sphere.
Most of the times Shizo is just a swamp, but once in a while it makes Geist basically unblockable, virtually guaranteeing 6 points of damage. It basically fulfils a similar purpose to what Eiganjo Castle does/did in American Delver lists.
You may be right there, I haven't had much chance to test against Affinity, I'm still trying to decide the best way of sideboarding for them, but I think you underestimate Hurkyl's Recall; you slow them down a turn, you also have the potential to counter relevant spells (Spell Snare stops Cranial Plating as well). And sometimes that extra turn or 2 is all you need.
It's useful vs Eggs, Tron (you can name Karn), Jund (naming Treetop Village, since naming Liliana hurts us too), Affinity (naming Cranial Plating)
Another thing, what are your thoughts on Esper Charm and Mortify sideboard, or maybe even mainboard?
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Meddling Mage
3 Snapcaster Mage
Enchantments (1)
1 Detention Sphere
Instants (8)
2 Disfigure
4 Path to Exile
2 Zealous Persecution
Sorceries (9)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
2 Celestial Colonnade
4 Darkslick Shores
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
4 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
1 Watery Grave
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Batterskull
2 Countersquall
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Zealous Persecution
This is fundamentally Esper Midrange as well.
Comments/thoughts?
Glad to know you feel that way, less lands means more business spells. Nice.
Certainly I favour Tar Pit a lot too :). But the reason why I suggested Mutavault was that it was cheaper to activate it into a man and probably you will often find enough mana to equip it with a sword and perhaps even have open mana left. This is a very advantageous position to be in when you and your opponent are playing a topdecking game But I do notice that putting anymore colorless mana source may hurt your land base too. So for that reason, Mutavaults may be a little too risky indeed.
Certainly, the fact that Remand replaces itself is helpful, and our decks (including the conventional UW Midrange) have willingly sacrificed away card draw for more game-impacting cards. Nonetheless, I still hope WOTC releases a better countermagic in future for the Modern format hehe.
Haha, indeed I am thinking about the sphere too, but yet again and for this based on my experience from Standard, I am cautious about Abrupt Decay, and the breaking of a sphere is very bad, since the threat returns (unless if they were tokens) it can be very much a game changer that puts us into dire situations. Nonetheless, still worth playtesting with
Interesting, I should try it out
Haha perhaps, sometimes a turn or 2 is indeed all you need, but sometimes it may not be I'd rather not take any chances. But I guess for your deck you may prefer to destroy artifacts or send them into the GY, making those artifact creatures lunch for your DRS haha. But I have heard that Affinity has been less popular recently, an interesting question, would you envision it coming back up in popularity again? And would you expect to see a significant number of them in your upcoming PTQ?
I did thought about them, but I prefer to keep my instants/sorcery at most at 2 casting cost, so that it wouldn't be much inconvenience in flashing back them with Tiago.
They both do target enchantments as well. Thus far, I have not struggled much with enchantments. Does your meta have any enchantment heavy decks or have you faced any enchantment that has been heavily played against you and have been giving you headaches?
I have to check this out, shall get back to you soon on this.
Modern Esper Midrange
EDH Jenara ETB
Given the current meta and the popularity of geist decks, I am incline to agree. Hmm but would you suggest playing as a 4-of and what would you suggest I take out to add her in?
Modern Esper Midrange
EDH Jenara ETB
Given the the popularity of removal/burn, I am rather hesitant to play Dark Confidant and Meddling Mage. Disfigure helps against most of the smaller creatures and it has a low mana cost, worth testing with, but if given a choice I'd prefer a more versatile removal. I am not that keen on Zealous Persecution, what do you think about it? Without any equipment to wield, I am less keen on Lingering Souls. Countersquall is an interesting idea, I may want to try it, would you think a 1 to 2-of is even viable mainboard?
Modern Esper Midrange
EDH Jenara ETB
Modern Esper Midrange
EDH Jenara ETB
Even though there is a lot of removal and burn I still think running 4 Deathrite Shamans is a good idea since their versatility is unrivalled. I'm also not completely sold on Disfigure (due to its narrowness) or Zealous Persecution, yes it has some nifty combat tricks and such, but I don't think it is good enough to be Mainboard IMO.