A combo deck goes off reliably on T5 and sometimes earlier, offers tons of protection and counters, and has a viable alternate win condition. You can build this very cheaply or more powerfully. Frank Lepore did a series of videos in July of 2014.
FAQ Q: How does this work? A: The combo is mindcrank and the new duskmantle guildmage. Get both on the board, activate the guildmage's first ability, then deal any damage to your opponent or put any card in their graveyard. Once either the ability triggers, each card triggers back and forth, mill a card, deal a damage, mill a card, deal a damage, etc. Doesn't matter if they have infinite life or they're playing a Battle of Wits deck - the combo will deck them or kill them, whichever happens first.
Q: How do you get the combo pieces? A: We're B/U so we can tutor our pieces with transmute. We run both Dimir Infiltrator and Muddle the Mixture to tutor whatever we need. But they're not dead cards if we don't want to transmute, Muddle can protect the Guildmage and Infiltrator works as part of our alternate win condition.
Q: How do you protect your combo? A: The deck runs gobs of removal and counters. They also help prevent opponents from resolving some of the problematic stuff above. They also help with the tempo if you're swinging with a piked delver or whatever.
I think that should be good now. What? You want to know why we picked the stuff we did? Here’s a card-by-card guide:
Permanents
Creatures
Combo Creature Duskmantle Guildmage: His first ability is our primary wincon. With mindcrank on the field, any damage to an opponent or anything to hit the our opponent's graveyard, and they're done. Since they're tutorable, I run 3.
Evasive Creatures Dimir Infiltrator: It tutors for either combo pieces - Mindcrank or the Guildmage, but it also tutors Runechanter's Pike, and makes a pretty good target to equip the pike. I run 3.
Delver of Secrets: Delver's power level is pretty well known. We run ~25 cards that will flip him, so he's going to be a threat. Obviously a great target for the Pike, and at worst he eats removal in G1 to protect your combo. I run 4.
Vendillion Clique: Card disruption and an evasive flier for 3, great target for the pike. As a 3-drop, it can conflict with transmuting into the combo, and more creatures mean a weaker pike & fewer delver flips, but a solid option nonetheless. I don't run any right now.
Other Goodstuff Dark Confidant: It'd be hard to justify not mentioning the best card draw engine in modern. It'll help you get your combo pieces, draw into removal and counters. The top CMC spell in the deck is 3, an nearly everything is 1-2 CMC, so no worries about killing yourself with a Sun Titan or something. I don't have any, but I'd run them if I did.
Snapcaster Mage: Recurring removal or counters is pretty good. They've tested pretty well.
Maralen of the Mornsong: Not a bad option because it lets you tutor pieces in time for T4. I'm leery of giving my opponent this ability first, but might be worth running in a version with 4x Aether vials so you can flash it in at your opponent's endstep.
Phantasmal Image: respectable sideboard card to get rid of Geists, Eldrazi, Melira, Thalia, or just copy something big. Phyrexian Metamorph will do the same thing, I don't run any.
Geist of Saint Traft: You can splash white for this, white removal, and some sideboard hate. Works great with a pike, wins games. I don't run any.
Noncreature Permanents
Artifacts Mindcrank: a silly do-nothing card that would never kill anyone except with Duskmantle Mage. They're tutorable with transmute, but in case one gets destroyed I run 2.
Runechanter's Pike: Makes the deck work as a tempo deck too. Tutorable with transmute, and a dead draw if you're trying to combo out, so I run 1.
Aether Vial: Enables nut hands like this: drop Vial T1, Mindcrank T2. Vial in guildmage at your T3, activate the 1st ability, and combo out with gut shot or ghost quarter or whatever. Does make Delver & Pike weaker, so I don't run any, but if you're going Delverless, Vial is awesome.
Isochron Scepter: Putting remand, mana leak, smother, or dimir charm on a stick is never a bad thing, and it will draw some of the artifact hate otherwise destined for mindcrank. However, getting 2-for-1'd and losing relevant removal/counter when it does get destroyed isn't great. Casting it with mana up for activation makes it a 4 drop, and probably too slow to do much work.
Dimir Signet: Or Talisman of Dominance, these will accelerate you to the 5 mana you need to cast & activate the guildmage. If you're playing "all in" version, these are fine.
Enchantments Bloodchief Ascension: With all the shocklands everyone plays, this isn't a bad T1-drop. If you have Geth's Verdict or Gut Shot, you can get a counter off a fetchland too. With delver this is a good T2 drop, if you can flip the delver. Once you've got 3 counters, it replaces the guildmage, and modern has a lot less enchantment hate than creature hate. Even without Mindcrank, if you can get 3 counters, with all the removal/counterspells, it'll put opponents in range of a pike kill or stall until you can find a Mindcrank.
Lands
Utility Lands Ghost Quarter: Hurts Tron, can slows down opponents, kill manlands, and is a free trigger for our combo. Does hurt mana fixing some, I run 3 in B/U version, just 2 in esper version.
Academy Ruins: Also only makes colorless mana, so you need to be careful not to run too many with ghost quarter. It will recur mindcrank after it gets hit with ancient grudge or krosan grip or whatever. I've tested with 2 in an "all combo" version along with a few Tolaria Wests to get them when needed.
Creeping Tar Pit: Solid body, dodges sweepers and sorcery speed removal, can't be countered, and mana fixes. Not an ideal target for pike, since it'll keep falling off our elemental creature, but worth running. I use 2.
Celestial Colonnade: If you're running the esper version, maybe. It does have a big body and flies, but if you get to a point with 6 lands on the board with this deck, you've probably already lost. I don't run any.
Mana Fixing: This won't surprise anyone, just throw a bunch of shocks/fetchs together, and you're fine. Cryptic Command & Geth's Verdict are the hardest spells to cast, and they've never given me a problem.
If you're doing B/U, fetches & shocks aren't even necessary. Our cantrips can't use the shuffle, and 2 colors in modern is dead easy to manafix. So you can manafix for cheap. Darkslick Shores, Drowned Catacomb, or even Underground River if you must. Very cheap.
If you're splashing white, you'll need fetches & shocks. Marsh Flats, Watery Grave, Hallowed Fountain, and some fastlands will make it fine to play Cryptic Command, Geist of Saint Traft, and Geth's Verdict in the same deck.
Nonpermanents
Removal
Make sure you don't die before the combo goes off, disrupt creature combos. Puts cards in our opponent's graveyard once we have our combo in place. Many of these are also tutorable with transmute, if you really need them. Run 9-10.
Dismember: Not much to say here. Big enough to kill Tarmogoyfs or combo creatures, cheap enough to drop T1. Since we have black, you don't have to pay 4 life, but you probably will. I run 3.
Slaughter Pact: This is primarily useful to trigger the combo for free, but in a pinch this isn't terrible removal to stop an alpha strike.
Dimir Charm: Pretty much does everything you want. Removes most jund beaters, forces discard, counters a few things. I run 3.
Smother: Hits everything you want to hit in jund and pretty much everything else. Unlike Dismember, you can pick this up with transmute, but I run Dimir Charm instead.
Gut Shot: Yeah 1 damage isn't much and it only hits a few creatures we care about. But it is free and 1 to the face will trigger the combo. Bonus: it builds pike. I run 3.
Geth's Verdict: Gets Geist of Saint Traft and anything else hexproof. Devour Flesh is another option, since our combo doesn't care about life, but our alternate wincon does care about life. I don't run any now, but I'm testing them.
Disfigure: Decent removal, but unnecessary with Smother & Dismember. Also, Gut Shot hits a lot of the stuff that Disfigure can do. I don't run any.
Vapor Snag: Bounce isn't terrible here, and making our opponent lose 1 life does trigger the combo, like Geth's Verdict or Gut Shot. I don't run any.
Far // Away: Again decent removal, I just find the sac/bounce effects a little too pricey, even if they do offer options and bouncing the guildmage is a good way to blank removal. I don't run any.
Devour Flesh: Yet more cheap removal. Easier to cast than Geth's Verdict and the combo doesn't care about lifegain, but it does undermine the alternate win condition. I don't run any.
Disruption
Disrupts other decks, protects our combo, and also puts cards in our opponent's graveyard. You should run at least 4, probably more.
Inquisition of Kozilek: What isn't to like? Disrupts other combos, fishes out counterspells, artifact hate, or removal and gives you a peek at your opponent. And, like all our removal, it makes pike bigger. Run 4.
Thoughtseize: See above. So far, the 2 life has been relevant, and IoK hits what I want, so I like IoK better. So I don't run any, running with IoK wouldn't be bad.
Duress: Since we mostly care about combos, removal, artifact hate, and counters, this is typically fine. IoK is almost always better, but Duress is dirt cheap. I don't run any.
Counters
I've found not many deck run a lot of counters in modern, so no one expects them and they're more effective than they should be, which is great. Protect our combo pieces, stop other combos or beaters from hitting play, and again puts cards in the yard for our combo. Run 8ish.
Muddle the Mixture: Yeah it isn't a great counterspell. But it transmutes into either combo piece, pike, and some of our removal. And, in a pinch, it'll protect our combo. I run 3.
Pact of Negation: Solid way to end the game once your guildmage & mind crank hit the field. It'll protect them and trigger the mill/damage cycle. Not super useful before that, but worth considering.
Cryptic Command: Counter spells, draws cards, bounces creatures, and fogs - what's not to like? And with just 2 colors, it is easy to cast. I run 2.
Remand: Practically a timewalk early in the game. They're cheap, easy to cast, and draws you a card. No downside. I run 4x.
Spell Snare: Also cheap and hits a ton of stuff we don't like. They have tested well, though not as well as remand, but I don't actually own any.
Spell Pierce: More counterspells that hit most of what we care about. I run 3.
Mana Leak: Yep, counters just about anything against nearly anyone not running storm or tron for just CMC 2. I don't run any.
Negate: Also a solid counterspell, but we've got enough already.
Cantrips
Some kind of card draw or cantrips are a must for combo decks. We've got transmute to tutor stuff, but the earlier we get our pieces, the better. I run cryptic command, and 4 cantrips.
Serum Visions: Just about the only usable cantrip left in modern. Won't flip delver until the next turn, so it is weak, but filtering bad draws isn't terrible. I run 4.
Thought Scour: Instant speed draw, also puts cards in your opponent's yard for the combo. Not a bad choice either. I've swapped them in & out for Serum Visions, they're about as good. Visions is slightly better to flip delver, but it isn't great at that, and thought scour actually triggers the combo.
Esper Charm: If you're running white, drawing 2 cards is good. It is a 3-drop, so interferes with transmute and Geist, but the utility is nice.
Gitaxian Probe: I guess this could be OK if you're trying to figure out what to counter, and it is free, but I don't run any.
Sleight of Hand: A weak cantrip in our deck, but does reach a bit further to draw than Serum Visions or Thought Scour. I don't run any.
Thirst for Knowledge: Only worth using if you're all in on combo running a full set of Mindcranks and Aether vials. Drawing three at instant speed is pretty solid.
Sideboard Hate
One of the best aspects of this deck is sideboarding. Because we have 2-drop tutoring through transmute built in already, we can run 1 or 2 ofs in our sideboard, and still see them reliably. It makes sideboarding much more effective.
Blind Obedience: For Twin/Kiki Exarch/Mite combo decks, and RDW. Extort + bloodchief ascension could be good, but I haven't played with it enough. Tutorable.
Ratchet Bomb: Solid removal against BW tokens, affinity, and a few tribal decks. Tutorable.
Relic of Progenitus or Nihil Spellbomb: Solid ways to wipe a graveyard and doesn't have card disadvantage built in, like Tormod's Crypt. I like relic a bit better because it can eat a card at a time.
Threads of Disloyalty: The only thing better than killing bob or goyf, is stealing them. Stealing Melira is good hijinks too. I sideboard 2.
Hurkyl's Recall: Yes affinity is fast, and can re-cast everything in a turn or two. But this is instant speed, can protect your Mindcrank, and buys you at least another turn. Tutors with transmute.
Phyrexian Revoker: Force pod decks to spend artifact removal on this guy, rather than our mindcrank, guildmage, or pike. Plenty of other uses too. Tutorable.
Torpor Orb: Kind of a weak way to stop pod decks. Like Revoker above, it works, except they've got gobs of artifact destruction, so this sets them back a turn at most.
Aven Mindcensor: Great against pod & tron decks, if you've got an esper list.
Disenchant: Solid in the esper version against pod decks, tutorable.
Spellskite: great sideboard card against infect, bogle/auras, and to protect delver/guildmage against UWR decks. Tutorable, though transmute is too slow against infect.
Criminy, that was a lot. Just want some decklists? Here's 4, a normal list, a budget list, an esper list, and an all in combo list.
Deck Lists
B/U Version: This list is what I've been playing with.
Esper Mindcrank: White is only an OK splash in game 1, because the good white removal, like Path to Exile, Oblivion Ring or Oust doesn't trigger the combo. But it does give us access to a much stronger sideboard.
I've played at least one match against most of the established decks in modern, but one match isn't much of a sample and I'm still definitely playtesting to get a better sense of how this plays against various decks.
Jund Pre-board: Favorable
Jund isn't fast enough to race the combo and we've got enough disruption & counters to protect our hand & combo. Our removal hits all their creatures except bloodbraid (only dismember hits bloodbraid), but we typically have counters at hand by the time bloodbraid hits. Since we have tutors, if they IoK/TS a combo piece, it isn't a big deal, we can get another.
Pod Combo Pre-board: Very unfavorable
This is a tough matchup. They are resistent to our disruption and can pod into answers - Qasali Pridemage, Harmonic Sliver, Linvala, Glen Elendra, Thrun, and others. We don't have artifact removal. They combo off as fast or faster, and more reliably. Sideboard in Mindcensors if playing esper, always kill the mana dorks. Sideboarding torpor orb or phyrexian revoker delays them a turn or so.
Twin/Kiki Exarch/Pestermite Pre-board: Even
This is just a race to combo. We've got more counters, so if you play smart you can win this, but they've got more combo pieces. Esper list could try the new Blind Obedience.
UW Tempo/Midrange Pre-board: Even
The deck is very similar to ours, but does more of everything, except it can't combo out. We're fine as long as we hit our land drops, and keep counters to make sure combo peices go through. We combo out about the time their midgame power shows up. The esper version is better midgame here because of Geist.
RG Tron Pre-board: Favorable
Keep counters up for land fetches, sweepers, and bombs; ghost quarter the key lands; and combo out before they can resolve Emrakul.
UR Storm Pre-board: Even
Another race to combo out in G1. Counter spells can delay them a turn, but it isn't huge. Siding in graveyard hate, surgical extraction, or ethersworn canonist really helps.
RDW/Burn Pre-board: Even
The speed can be problematic, but burning anything we can stick a pike on is worse. Combo isn't much affected because the can't burn out guildmage, so long as we have 3 mana up or their burn will deck them. The esper list plays much better because of Geist. Sideboard helps with esper if you're playing blind obedience or disenchant, but doesn't help B/U much, and gives them artifact hate for mindcrank.
Affinity Pre-board: Favorable
Counter cranial plating, and you're ok. The burn version with Shrapnel Blast and Galvanic Blast is fine, if we can activate our Guildmage, their burn will deck them. Sideboarding 1x Hurkyl's Recall is typically enough, though transmute makes Recall a bit slow. Esper version has Kataki, War's Wage, which is much better against affinity.
Hatebears Pre-board: Very unfavorable
Hatebears neuters transmute with Mindcensors and Leonin Arbiters, Thalia demands a response, and all the flash/vial/flicker tricks really make it hard kill their creatures and hard to win with the tempo pike + evasive creature plan.
Conclusion:
I've played this for a while in a number of different shells. It isn't a competitive deck because both combo pieces are bad by themselves. I often take G1 by surprise, but after that it is just too hard to protect both a do-nothing artifact and a do-nothing creature and keep 3 mana up. The guildmage is essentially a 5-drop, since you have to activate his ability immediately after dropping him or he eats removal. And mindcrank is essentially a 4-drop, if you want to keep mana up to counter removal. So it is a bit slow.
Having both a creature & artifact - and decks mainboard/sideboard hate for both - means your opponent needs only to answer one or the other. And the combo pieces provide no value until they go off, so it is very different than pod combos or tron, where you can get something out of pod & tron lands even if it gets destroyed right away. In fact, mindcrank may help your opponent.
Protecting the combo is extra hard because the removal is cheaper than the protection. Your opponent can drop their own creature and path to exile the duskmantle guildmage or shattering spree your mindcrank. If you leave mana up and don't get a counter in, you don't have many instants, and you've wasted your turn. So you fall behind in board presence for the first several turns by leaving mana to protect your combo while your opponent can cast stuff and attack combo pieces.
Both pod and tron decks have combo pieces that do something useful even if you don't get your combo up - pod fetches answers, pod creatures can attack and have ETB effects, tron lands can cast karn or mindslaver, etc. Those decks also have cheaper tutors - transmute is 3cc, whereas birthing pod tutors for 2 life, Sylvan Scrying & Expedition Map are cheaper or the costs can be spread across turns. Plus their combo pieces are harder to hate - they can drop pod T3 & activate it for a combo piece before you can shatter it, lands are harder to destroy than creatures/artifacts.
Going all-in combo isn't great because you end up with duplicate dead cards in your hand. So you put it in a control/tempo shell. But the combo pieces are still lousy, so you end up cutting more and more of them for more tempo/control pieces, relying on transmute for the combo, until you just end up with a bad delver/tempo/control deck with an alternate win condition.
I've had a lot of fun with the deck, and it has performed reasonably at modern nights. But in the end, I'm forced to conclude it is a good casual deck and a weak competitive deck.
Yeah, thoughtscour is in the list for cantrips. It is pretty good - a tossup between that and serum visions. Sure wish preordain or ponder was legal, but I guess that'd help storm and some others more than this.
This can win on T4 and typically wins on T5 if not disrupted. T1: IoK/Cantrip, T2: Guildmage/Mindcrank, T3: Guildmage/Mindcrank or Transmute, T4: Win or drop what you transmuted for and win T5.
Can't really go any earlier unless you're running vials. I'm sure I could come up with some kind of ramped nut draw that goes off on T2, but that'd really hurt the deck's reliability. So, while it is a bit slow, it is packed with disruption & removal, and I've generally had plenty of time.
Decklist I just threw together, abusing vial is fun. Have to playtest some more as I could only find opponents with random brews on Cockatrice.
Didn't think about sideboard yet. Probably Infest, some counters, some other good stuff. Idk, will probably cheat and look at other esper lists for ideas.
I did think about the sideboard just as I was fixing the formatting. I am however rather inexperienced with sideboards and any help is greatly appreciated!
EDIT:
Posted this in an old thread linked to me from somewhere, figured I should post it here too. The main difference about my list is that instead of splashing white, ít is my main colour. I am liking the idea of turning down the number of combo pieces and adding infiltrators. Also the quest is an interesting win con, seeing as I have a ton of fliers that should be able to trigger it.
Now as to your actual primer. There's definitely some cards an inexperienced Modern player like me will overlook, so I think I have me some changing around to do!
I like the combo. Honestly I feel like you should go all in with the combo just to try for the early win. 8 transmute effects to get the win conditions for sure. Remand and any cantrips that are one mana or the like to get your hand sculpted. I'd run the vial so you could just get the counter to two and suprise your opponent with the guildmage and also get it past any counters.
And Dark Confident if you don't get your pieces he'll find them quickly.
There were a lot of card choices in the "if I had I would run" section..
Could you post an "ideal" list. I was expecting a deck like this with a tempo shell and the combo as "oops I win". I'm kind of surprised by the reliance on tutors, but it protects you from discard and the deck isn't all in combo so i'll take your word for it.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
There were a lot of card choices in the "if I had I would run" section..
Could you post an "ideal" list. I was expecting a deck like this with a tempo shell and the combo as "oops I win". I'm kind of surprised by the reliance on tutors, but it protects you from discard and the deck isn't all in combo so i'll take your word for it.
My first few iterations was goldfishing with 4x mindcrank, 4x duskmantle guildmage, 4x vials and more cantrips. It worked fine until I played real decks. You're exactly right that I had problems with disruption - a T1 IoK/TS could ruin the combo - and with randomness, drawing into three guildmages while digging for a mindcrank.
I added transmute to ensure I get what I needed. But then found opponent's sideboarding something like rest in peace or slaughter games or chalice, and I just had to scoop. I had so many spells, I tried pike, since I could transmute for that too. And since a second guildmage or mindcrank was a dead draw, I cut back on the combo pieces for more counters/removal or and evasive creatures, to rely on transmute.
So that's how I got here. Transmute is pretty good in modern because no one runs trickbind or voidslime, and stifle isn't legal, so it is never countered. And because it plays so well with the sideboard, I've even sided out my combo pieces in G2 before and just played tempo to throw off my opponent. They play cautiously, waiting to pounce on a combo piece while Delver or Geist brings the beatdown.
I think the esper list is the list I'm working towards. Testing it on cockatrice, it was as quick with the combo, thanks to bob, and dramatically stronger otherwise. So that's pretty close to an ideal list. But I'm still figuring out what ideal looks like, and will update as I learn.
Bloodchief is not easy to trigger, but the Shamans seem a nice addition to make it possible. All other decks seem lose to Slaughter Games right on the spot.
This list seems really solid, despite the lack of redundancy. Apostle Blessing and Spellskite both cost 2 and are great with the transmutters.
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Trophyless guy.
Thought of the Month: I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
Why not use Thoughtseize and pay the same costs as you would with iok but have more wiggle-room? If your goal is to combo out asap the 2 life isn't that much of a diff right?
If your goal is to combo out asap then your enemy wont get to cast CMC 3+ !
But in all reality, the main arguments are the budget argument, and the life argument. Both work for me since I run the combo in an Esper control shell.
EDIT: Forgot to mention that your point is correct. I agree.
How about combining this combo deck with another one? Similar to the Thopter Depths deck in Extended a few years ago, if you put two combos in the deck, your opponents' resources will be strained. They will have trouble sideboarding, and you can select which combo you want to win with in any given matchup.
I'm going to try something like this at my next Modern tournament:
Splashing red for 3rd color is interesting, but the deck doesn't have any fetch this way, so I'm not sure it'd be reliable enough and sufficiently resilient to disruption. I would suggest a pod shell, but then you're just better off going kiki/twin and resto/pester/exarch, and not doubling up on non-interchangeable combo pieces. Also, no way to get mindcrank.
Basically you win by either mindcrank combo/pure milling/pushing with Wight and or Phantasms. Inquisition and Extirpate is quite obvious.
Sample hand I just rolled:
Watery Grave
3x Archive Trap ( tho unlikely, I mostly get 2 )
Phantasm
Inquisition
Visions of Beyond
T1: Grave + Phantasm
T2: Often it's Archive Trap when they fetch ( 39 cards milled )
T3: Visions ( draw 3 ), play land, Inquisition, hit with Phantasm.
That's quite a SAMPLE hand you have there. Not at all looking like a unlikely start. Considering you started with 3 of your 4 traps and you assume they fetch. Sorry that's just the kinda of God hand that someone wants to meantion to get thier deck pushed forward.
Not meaning to imply that you wouldn't get such a great start. Just the chances of having three of your needed mill in your oppening and you lead with a 1/1 flier, unprotected, baffle me.
Sorry I wanted to read up on the thread and that glaring instance was something I should have let go but I didn't.
I just wanted to say how the deck doesn't need to run a single mill spell to be effective. You just need to get teh two combo pieces out and ready and once a card is about to hit the yard you active it and win.
Would the deck benefit from moving to a more control aspect with the combo still being the focus of teh deck? You can still transmute for things but the combo itself would be stronger with back of Remand, Leak and Command I feel
Would the deck benefit from moving to a more control aspect with the combo still being the focus of teh deck? You can still transmute for things but the combo itself would be stronger with back of Remand, Leak and Command I feel
Yep, the decklist I posted that I've been playing with has 4x remand, 2x cryptic command. I like mana leak, but between muddle the mixture & remand already, plus dimir charm, I felt like mana leak was too many 2-drop counters, so I added spell pierce. Now that storm isn't a thing anymore, spell pierce may not be ideal. It is nice on the play to have up against disruption, but most other viable combo decks are creature combos, so I don't know. Force spike seems pretty weak, spell snare maybe better, since it snags melira, snapcaster, thalia, & most of the problematic jund creatures. I'll have to test.
Also, dimir charm has been just OK. The counter is pretty much useless, the mill is unnecessary, and smother is a cheaper way to kill off creatures. So I'm thinking about pulling it for smother. Also not enamored with serum visions as a cantrip. It doesn't flip delver of secrets reliably, and the filtering isn't super important given the deck has fetch. So I'm looking for a useful 1-cost noncreature spell to stick in that slot, a shame there isn't anything that works better with delver.
I am liking dimir charm over smother. The mill option, while unideal, can still help you dig for that last combo piece and is not irrelevant. I am liking it as a 1 or 2 of.
Im thinking about putting 2 Surgical Extraction in main to use with Dimir Charm, you can use mill option on the enemy, give him the worst draw and extract the best card, against combo it can be very usefull.
What i like from hedron crab and Deathrite shaman is that their ability is cheap or free and can start the damage combo.
Any thought, i'm pretty sure this could be a good deck, the combo can easily start on turn 4.
The way I see it, for a perfect draw in a perfect world:
T1: Aether vial
T2: Vial into Crab or deathrite, put mind crank
T3: Vial into Duskmantle mage, kepp 3 Land, activate ability on opponent turn for the kill (if he's putting a card into GY).
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I'm french canadian, english is not my mother tongue, please forgive any mistakes.
BRW
''Know thy self, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories.''
i just registerd here, because german-forums nearly no answers.
I want to go for more win-options not just mindcrank + mage. One Option should be Jace's Phantasm. with glimpse and archive trap it will get a 5/5 flyer.
A combo deck goes off reliably on T5 and sometimes earlier, offers tons of protection and counters, and has a viable alternate win condition. You can build this very cheaply or more powerfully. Frank Lepore did a series of videos in July of 2014.
FAQ
Q: How does this work?
A: The combo is mindcrank and the new duskmantle guildmage. Get both on the board, activate the guildmage's first ability, then deal any damage to your opponent or put any card in their graveyard. Once either the ability triggers, each card triggers back and forth, mill a card, deal a damage, mill a card, deal a damage, etc. Doesn't matter if they have infinite life or they're playing a Battle of Wits deck - the combo will deck them or kill them, whichever happens first.
Q: How do you get the combo pieces?
A: We're B/U so we can tutor our pieces with transmute. We run both Dimir Infiltrator and Muddle the Mixture to tutor whatever we need. But they're not dead cards if we don't want to transmute, Muddle can protect the Guildmage and Infiltrator works as part of our alternate win condition.
Q: Ok, so what's the alternate wincon?
A: Runechanter's Pike + creature with evasion. Transmute can tutor the pike, and we've got several creatures with evasion, Dimir Infiltrator, Creeping Tar Pit, and lots of other great options. That way the deck doesn't just fold to a resolved Rest in Peace or something naming a combo piece like Pithing Needle, Meddling Mage, Slaughter Games or the like.
Q: How do you protect your combo?
A: The deck runs gobs of removal and counters. They also help prevent opponents from resolving some of the problematic stuff above. They also help with the tempo if you're swinging with a piked delver or whatever.
I think that should be good now. What? You want to know why we picked the stuff we did? Here’s a card-by-card guide:
Permanents
Duskmantle Guildmage: His first ability is our primary wincon. With mindcrank on the field, any damage to an opponent or anything to hit the our opponent's graveyard, and they're done. Since they're tutorable, I run 3.
Evasive Creatures
Dimir Infiltrator: It tutors for either combo pieces - Mindcrank or the Guildmage, but it also tutors Runechanter's Pike, and makes a pretty good target to equip the pike. I run 3.
Delver of Secrets: Delver's power level is pretty well known. We run ~25 cards that will flip him, so he's going to be a threat. Obviously a great target for the Pike, and at worst he eats removal in G1 to protect your combo. I run 4.
Vendillion Clique: Card disruption and an evasive flier for 3, great target for the pike. As a 3-drop, it can conflict with transmuting into the combo, and more creatures mean a weaker pike & fewer delver flips, but a solid option nonetheless. I don't run any right now.
Other Goodstuff
Dark Confidant: It'd be hard to justify not mentioning the best card draw engine in modern. It'll help you get your combo pieces, draw into removal and counters. The top CMC spell in the deck is 3, an nearly everything is 1-2 CMC, so no worries about killing yourself with a Sun Titan or something. I don't have any, but I'd run them if I did.
Snapcaster Mage: Recurring removal or counters is pretty good. They've tested pretty well.
Maralen of the Mornsong: Not a bad option because it lets you tutor pieces in time for T4. I'm leery of giving my opponent this ability first, but might be worth running in a version with 4x Aether vials so you can flash it in at your opponent's endstep.
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner: Protects combo pieces or your pike target. 2 in the sideboard.
Phantasmal Image: respectable sideboard card to get rid of Geists, Eldrazi, Melira, Thalia, or just copy something big. Phyrexian Metamorph will do the same thing, I don't run any.
Geist of Saint Traft: You can splash white for this, white removal, and some sideboard hate. Works great with a pike, wins games. I don't run any.
Mindcrank: a silly do-nothing card that would never kill anyone except with Duskmantle Mage. They're tutorable with transmute, but in case one gets destroyed I run 2.
Runechanter's Pike: Makes the deck work as a tempo deck too. Tutorable with transmute, and a dead draw if you're trying to combo out, so I run 1.
Aether Vial: Enables nut hands like this: drop Vial T1, Mindcrank T2. Vial in guildmage at your T3, activate the 1st ability, and combo out with gut shot or ghost quarter or whatever. Does make Delver & Pike weaker, so I don't run any, but if you're going Delverless, Vial is awesome.
Isochron Scepter: Putting remand, mana leak, smother, or dimir charm on a stick is never a bad thing, and it will draw some of the artifact hate otherwise destined for mindcrank. However, getting 2-for-1'd and losing relevant removal/counter when it does get destroyed isn't great. Casting it with mana up for activation makes it a 4 drop, and probably too slow to do much work.
Dimir Signet: Or Talisman of Dominance, these will accelerate you to the 5 mana you need to cast & activate the guildmage. If you're playing "all in" version, these are fine.
Enchantments
Bloodchief Ascension: With all the shocklands everyone plays, this isn't a bad T1-drop. If you have Geth's Verdict or Gut Shot, you can get a counter off a fetchland too. With delver this is a good T2 drop, if you can flip the delver. Once you've got 3 counters, it replaces the guildmage, and modern has a lot less enchantment hate than creature hate. Even without Mindcrank, if you can get 3 counters, with all the removal/counterspells, it'll put opponents in range of a pike kill or stall until you can find a Mindcrank.
Ghost Quarter: Hurts Tron, can slows down opponents, kill manlands, and is a free trigger for our combo. Does hurt mana fixing some, I run 3 in B/U version, just 2 in esper version.
Academy Ruins: Also only makes colorless mana, so you need to be careful not to run too many with ghost quarter. It will recur mindcrank after it gets hit with ancient grudge or krosan grip or whatever. I've tested with 2 in an "all combo" version along with a few Tolaria Wests to get them when needed.
Creeping Tar Pit: Solid body, dodges sweepers and sorcery speed removal, can't be countered, and mana fixes. Not an ideal target for pike, since it'll keep falling off our elemental creature, but worth running. I use 2.
Celestial Colonnade: If you're running the esper version, maybe. It does have a big body and flies, but if you get to a point with 6 lands on the board with this deck, you've probably already lost. I don't run any.
Mana Fixing: This won't surprise anyone, just throw a bunch of shocks/fetchs together, and you're fine. Cryptic Command & Geth's Verdict are the hardest spells to cast, and they've never given me a problem.
If you're doing B/U, fetches & shocks aren't even necessary. Our cantrips can't use the shuffle, and 2 colors in modern is dead easy to manafix. So you can manafix for cheap. Darkslick Shores, Drowned Catacomb, or even Underground River if you must. Very cheap.
If you're splashing white, you'll need fetches & shocks. Marsh Flats, Watery Grave, Hallowed Fountain, and some fastlands will make it fine to play Cryptic Command, Geist of Saint Traft, and Geth's Verdict in the same deck.
Dismember: Not much to say here. Big enough to kill Tarmogoyfs or combo creatures, cheap enough to drop T1. Since we have black, you don't have to pay 4 life, but you probably will. I run 3.
Slaughter Pact: This is primarily useful to trigger the combo for free, but in a pinch this isn't terrible removal to stop an alpha strike.
Dimir Charm: Pretty much does everything you want. Removes most jund beaters, forces discard, counters a few things. I run 3.
Smother: Hits everything you want to hit in jund and pretty much everything else. Unlike Dismember, you can pick this up with transmute, but I run Dimir Charm instead.
Gut Shot: Yeah 1 damage isn't much and it only hits a few creatures we care about. But it is free and 1 to the face will trigger the combo. Bonus: it builds pike. I run 3.
Geth's Verdict: Gets Geist of Saint Traft and anything else hexproof. Devour Flesh is another option, since our combo doesn't care about life, but our alternate wincon does care about life. I don't run any now, but I'm testing them.
Disfigure: Decent removal, but unnecessary with Smother & Dismember. Also, Gut Shot hits a lot of the stuff that Disfigure can do. I don't run any.
Vapor Snag: Bounce isn't terrible here, and making our opponent lose 1 life does trigger the combo, like Geth's Verdict or Gut Shot. I don't run any.
Far // Away: Again decent removal, I just find the sac/bounce effects a little too pricey, even if they do offer options and bouncing the guildmage is a good way to blank removal. I don't run any.
Devour Flesh: Yet more cheap removal. Easier to cast than Geth's Verdict and the combo doesn't care about lifegain, but it does undermine the alternate win condition. I don't run any.
Inquisition of Kozilek: What isn't to like? Disrupts other combos, fishes out counterspells, artifact hate, or removal and gives you a peek at your opponent. And, like all our removal, it makes pike bigger. Run 4.
Thoughtseize: See above. So far, the 2 life has been relevant, and IoK hits what I want, so I like IoK better. So I don't run any, running with IoK wouldn't be bad.
Duress: Since we mostly care about combos, removal, artifact hate, and counters, this is typically fine. IoK is almost always better, but Duress is dirt cheap. I don't run any.
Muddle the Mixture: Yeah it isn't a great counterspell. But it transmutes into either combo piece, pike, and some of our removal. And, in a pinch, it'll protect our combo. I run 3.
Pact of Negation: Solid way to end the game once your guildmage & mind crank hit the field. It'll protect them and trigger the mill/damage cycle. Not super useful before that, but worth considering.
Cryptic Command: Counter spells, draws cards, bounces creatures, and fogs - what's not to like? And with just 2 colors, it is easy to cast. I run 2.
Remand: Practically a timewalk early in the game. They're cheap, easy to cast, and draws you a card. No downside. I run 4x.
Spell Snare: Also cheap and hits a ton of stuff we don't like. They have tested well, though not as well as remand, but I don't actually own any.
Spell Pierce: More counterspells that hit most of what we care about. I run 3.
Mana Leak: Yep, counters just about anything against nearly anyone not running storm or tron for just CMC 2. I don't run any.
Negate: Also a solid counterspell, but we've got enough already.
Serum Visions: Just about the only usable cantrip left in modern. Won't flip delver until the next turn, so it is weak, but filtering bad draws isn't terrible. I run 4.
Thought Scour: Instant speed draw, also puts cards in your opponent's yard for the combo. Not a bad choice either. I've swapped them in & out for Serum Visions, they're about as good. Visions is slightly better to flip delver, but it isn't great at that, and thought scour actually triggers the combo.
Esper Charm: If you're running white, drawing 2 cards is good. It is a 3-drop, so interferes with transmute and Geist, but the utility is nice.
Gitaxian Probe: I guess this could be OK if you're trying to figure out what to counter, and it is free, but I don't run any.
Sleight of Hand: A weak cantrip in our deck, but does reach a bit further to draw than Serum Visions or Thought Scour. I don't run any.
Thirst for Knowledge: Only worth using if you're all in on combo running a full set of Mindcranks and Aether vials. Drawing three at instant speed is pretty solid.
Blind Obedience: For Twin/Kiki Exarch/Mite combo decks, and RDW. Extort + bloodchief ascension could be good, but I haven't played with it enough. Tutorable.
Ratchet Bomb: Solid removal against BW tokens, affinity, and a few tribal decks. Tutorable.
Relic of Progenitus or Nihil Spellbomb: Solid ways to wipe a graveyard and doesn't have card disadvantage built in, like Tormod's Crypt. I like relic a bit better because it can eat a card at a time.
Threads of Disloyalty: The only thing better than killing bob or goyf, is stealing them. Stealing Melira is good hijinks too. I sideboard 2.
Hurkyl's Recall: Yes affinity is fast, and can re-cast everything in a turn or two. But this is instant speed, can protect your Mindcrank, and buys you at least another turn. Tutors with transmute.
Phyrexian Revoker: Force pod decks to spend artifact removal on this guy, rather than our mindcrank, guildmage, or pike. Plenty of other uses too. Tutorable.
Torpor Orb: Kind of a weak way to stop pod decks. Like Revoker above, it works, except they've got gobs of artifact destruction, so this sets them back a turn at most.
Kataki, War's Wage: Affinity hoser for the esper list. Tutorable.
Aven Mindcensor: Great against pod & tron decks, if you've got an esper list.
Disenchant: Solid in the esper version against pod decks, tutorable.
Spellskite: great sideboard card against infect, bogle/auras, and to protect delver/guildmage against UWR decks. Tutorable, though transmute is too slow against infect.
Deck Lists
B/U Version: This list is what I've been playing with.
3 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Watery Grave
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Island
2 Swamp
Creatures
2 Duskmantle Guildmage
2 Dimir Infiltrator
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Mindcrank
1 Runechanter's Pike
Instants/Sorceries
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
2 Muddle the Mixture
3 Spell Pierce
2 Cryptic Command
3 Dismember
2 Dimir Charm
4 Remand
2 Spell Snare
1 Throughseize
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Vendillion Clique
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Spellskite
Budget B/U Version: The budget version is cheap to build and very reliable. The only downside is that the alternate wincon is a bit weaker.
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Island
3 Swamp
2 Underground River
Creatures
3 Duskmantle Guildmage
3 Dimir Infiltrator
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Mindcrank
1 Runechanter's Pike
Instants/Sorceries
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thought Scour
3 Muddle the Mixture
3 Spell Pierce
2 Duress
3 Dismember
3 Smother
3 Gut Shot
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Torpor Orb
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Devour Flesh
3 Relic of Progenitus
Esper Mindcrank: White is only an OK splash in game 1, because the good white removal, like Path to Exile, Oblivion Ring or Oust doesn't trigger the combo. But it does give us access to a much stronger sideboard.
4 Marsh Flats
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
3 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Duskmantle Guildmage
2 Dimir Infiltrator
1 Mindcrank
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
Instants/Sorceries
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
4 Serum Visions
3 Muddle the Mixture
4 Remand
2 Cryptic Command
3 Dismember
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Disenchant
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Spellskite
4 Aven Mindcensor
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Blind Obedience
1 Torpor Orb
All-in Combo Version: This has no alternate wincon to speak of, but is more resilient to spot removal because of the redundancy.
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Island
3 Swamp
1 Academy Ruins
3 Tolaria West
4 Duskmantle Guildmage
3 Dark Confidant
2 Dimir Infiltrator
Artifacts
4 Mindcrank
4 Aether vial
4 Dimir Signet
4 Thoughtseize
4 Serum Visions
2 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Muddle the Mixture
3 Remand
2 Dismember
2 Smother
Match-ups
Jund
Pre-board: Favorable
Jund isn't fast enough to race the combo and we've got enough disruption & counters to protect our hand & combo. Our removal hits all their creatures except bloodbraid (only dismember hits bloodbraid), but we typically have counters at hand by the time bloodbraid hits. Since we have tutors, if they IoK/TS a combo piece, it isn't a big deal, we can get another.
Pod Combo
Pre-board: Very unfavorable
This is a tough matchup. They are resistent to our disruption and can pod into answers - Qasali Pridemage, Harmonic Sliver, Linvala, Glen Elendra, Thrun, and others. We don't have artifact removal. They combo off as fast or faster, and more reliably. Sideboard in Mindcensors if playing esper, always kill the mana dorks. Sideboarding torpor orb or phyrexian revoker delays them a turn or so.
Twin/Kiki Exarch/Pestermite
Pre-board: Even
This is just a race to combo. We've got more counters, so if you play smart you can win this, but they've got more combo pieces. Esper list could try the new Blind Obedience.
UW Tempo/Midrange
Pre-board: Even
The deck is very similar to ours, but does more of everything, except it can't combo out. We're fine as long as we hit our land drops, and keep counters to make sure combo peices go through. We combo out about the time their midgame power shows up. The esper version is better midgame here because of Geist.
RG Tron
Pre-board: Favorable
Keep counters up for land fetches, sweepers, and bombs; ghost quarter the key lands; and combo out before they can resolve Emrakul.
UR Storm
Pre-board: Even
Another race to combo out in G1. Counter spells can delay them a turn, but it isn't huge. Siding in graveyard hate, surgical extraction, or ethersworn canonist really helps.
RDW/Burn
Pre-board: Even
The speed can be problematic, but burning anything we can stick a pike on is worse. Combo isn't much affected because the can't burn out guildmage, so long as we have 3 mana up or their burn will deck them. The esper list plays much better because of Geist. Sideboard helps with esper if you're playing blind obedience or disenchant, but doesn't help B/U much, and gives them artifact hate for mindcrank.
Affinity
Pre-board: Favorable
Counter cranial plating, and you're ok. The burn version with Shrapnel Blast and Galvanic Blast is fine, if we can activate our Guildmage, their burn will deck them. Sideboarding 1x Hurkyl's Recall is typically enough, though transmute makes Recall a bit slow. Esper version has Kataki, War's Wage, which is much better against affinity.
Hatebears
Pre-board: Very unfavorable
Hatebears neuters transmute with Mindcensors and Leonin Arbiters, Thalia demands a response, and all the flash/vial/flicker tricks really make it hard kill their creatures and hard to win with the tempo pike + evasive creature plan.
Conclusion:
Having both a creature & artifact - and decks mainboard/sideboard hate for both - means your opponent needs only to answer one or the other. And the combo pieces provide no value until they go off, so it is very different than pod combos or tron, where you can get something out of pod & tron lands even if it gets destroyed right away. In fact, mindcrank may help your opponent.
Protecting the combo is extra hard because the removal is cheaper than the protection. Your opponent can drop their own creature and path to exile the duskmantle guildmage or shattering spree your mindcrank. If you leave mana up and don't get a counter in, you don't have many instants, and you've wasted your turn. So you fall behind in board presence for the first several turns by leaving mana to protect your combo while your opponent can cast stuff and attack combo pieces.
Both pod and tron decks have combo pieces that do something useful even if you don't get your combo up - pod fetches answers, pod creatures can attack and have ETB effects, tron lands can cast karn or mindslaver, etc. Those decks also have cheaper tutors - transmute is 3cc, whereas birthing pod tutors for 2 life, Sylvan Scrying & Expedition Map are cheaper or the costs can be spread across turns. Plus their combo pieces are harder to hate - they can drop pod T3 & activate it for a combo piece before you can shatter it, lands are harder to destroy than creatures/artifacts.
Going all-in combo isn't great because you end up with duplicate dead cards in your hand. So you put it in a control/tempo shell. But the combo pieces are still lousy, so you end up cutting more and more of them for more tempo/control pieces, relying on transmute for the combo, until you just end up with a bad delver/tempo/control deck with an alternate win condition.
I've had a lot of fun with the deck, and it has performed reasonably at modern nights. But in the end, I'm forced to conclude it is a good casual deck and a weak competitive deck.
What about thought scour? (at least for the budget version, which is more combo focused)
This can win on T4 and typically wins on T5 if not disrupted. T1: IoK/Cantrip, T2: Guildmage/Mindcrank, T3: Guildmage/Mindcrank or Transmute, T4: Win or drop what you transmuted for and win T5.
Can't really go any earlier unless you're running vials. I'm sure I could come up with some kind of ramped nut draw that goes off on T2, but that'd really hurt the deck's reliability. So, while it is a bit slow, it is packed with disruption & removal, and I've generally had plenty of time.
2 Plains
1 Tolaria West
1 Underground River
1 Fetid Heath
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Mystic Gate
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Watery Grave
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Godless Shrine
1 Academy Ruins
4 Maralen of the Mornsong
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Aven Mindcensor
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Flickerwisp
2 Dark Confidant
3 Duskmantle Guildmage
Spells: 8
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Rebuff the Wicked
3 Path to Exile
Artifacts: 7
3 Mindcrank
4 Æther Vial
3 Infest
1 Path to Exile
2 Pact of Negation
2 Rebuff the Wicked
2 Mana Leak
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tidehollow Sculler
Decklist I just threw together, abusing vial is fun. Have to playtest some more as I could only find opponents with random brews on Cockatrice.
I did think about the sideboard just as I was fixing the formatting. I am however rather inexperienced with sideboards and any help is greatly appreciated!
EDIT:
Posted this in an old thread linked to me from somewhere, figured I should post it here too. The main difference about my list is that instead of splashing white, ít is my main colour. I am liking the idea of turning down the number of combo pieces and adding infiltrators. Also the quest is an interesting win con, seeing as I have a ton of fliers that should be able to trigger it.
Now as to your actual primer. There's definitely some cards an inexperienced Modern player like me will overlook, so I think I have me some changing around to do!
And Dark Confident if you don't get your pieces he'll find them quickly.
Could you post an "ideal" list. I was expecting a deck like this with a tempo shell and the combo as "oops I win". I'm kind of surprised by the reliance on tutors, but it protects you from discard and the deck isn't all in combo so i'll take your word for it.
My first few iterations was goldfishing with 4x mindcrank, 4x duskmantle guildmage, 4x vials and more cantrips. It worked fine until I played real decks. You're exactly right that I had problems with disruption - a T1 IoK/TS could ruin the combo - and with randomness, drawing into three guildmages while digging for a mindcrank.
I added transmute to ensure I get what I needed. But then found opponent's sideboarding something like rest in peace or slaughter games or chalice, and I just had to scoop. I had so many spells, I tried pike, since I could transmute for that too. And since a second guildmage or mindcrank was a dead draw, I cut back on the combo pieces for more counters/removal or and evasive creatures, to rely on transmute.
So that's how I got here. Transmute is pretty good in modern because no one runs trickbind or voidslime, and stifle isn't legal, so it is never countered. And because it plays so well with the sideboard, I've even sided out my combo pieces in G2 before and just played tempo to throw off my opponent. They play cautiously, waiting to pounce on a combo piece while Delver or Geist brings the beatdown.
I think the esper list is the list I'm working towards. Testing it on cockatrice, it was as quick with the combo, thanks to bob, and dramatically stronger otherwise. So that's pretty close to an ideal list. But I'm still figuring out what ideal looks like, and will update as I learn.
4 Mindcrank
4 Duskmantle Guildmage
2 Bloodchief Ascension
Enablers
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Thought Scour
Dig
4 Serum Visions
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Thoughtseize
4 Remand
4 Dark Confidant
2 Duskmantle Seer
Land
2 Watery Grave
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Marsh Flats
4 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Island
3 Swamp
1 Overgrown Tomb
This list seems really solid, despite the lack of redundancy. Apostle Blessing and Spellskite both cost 2 and are great with the transmutters.
Thought of the Month:
I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
If you had the combo up, wouldn't he die when Simic Charm finishes resolving and goes to the graveyard?
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Island
4 Marsh Flats
2 River of Tears
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
// Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Duskmantle Guildmage
3 Spellskite
3 Dimir Charm
3 Mindcrank
4 Muddle the Mixture
4 Remand
4 Serum Visions
3 Sleight of Hand
4 Thoughtseize
If your goal is to combo out asap then your enemy wont get to cast CMC 3+ !
But in all reality, the main arguments are the budget argument, and the life argument. Both work for me since I run the combo in an Esper control shell.
EDIT: Forgot to mention that your point is correct. I agree.
I'm going to try something like this at my next Modern tournament:
3 Spellskite
4 Duskmantle Guildmage
4 Deceiver Exarch
Artifacts (4)
4 Mindcrank
Enchantments (4)
4 Splinter Twin
Spells (18)
4 Serum Visions
2 Mizzium Skin
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Izzet Charm
2 Apostle's Blessing
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Arid Mesa
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
2 Cascade Bluffs
3 Island
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
2 Dispel
2 Duress
4 Rakdos Charm
2 Echoing Truth
3 Pyroclasm
2 Combust
That's quite a SAMPLE hand you have there. Not at all looking like a unlikely start. Considering you started with 3 of your 4 traps and you assume they fetch. Sorry that's just the kinda of God hand that someone wants to meantion to get thier deck pushed forward.
Not meaning to imply that you wouldn't get such a great start. Just the chances of having three of your needed mill in your oppening and you lead with a 1/1 flier, unprotected, baffle me.
Sorry I wanted to read up on the thread and that glaring instance was something I should have let go but I didn't.
I just wanted to say how the deck doesn't need to run a single mill spell to be effective. You just need to get teh two combo pieces out and ready and once a card is about to hit the yard you active it and win.
Would the deck benefit from moving to a more control aspect with the combo still being the focus of teh deck? You can still transmute for things but the combo itself would be stronger with back of Remand, Leak and Command I feel
Yep, the decklist I posted that I've been playing with has 4x remand, 2x cryptic command. I like mana leak, but between muddle the mixture & remand already, plus dimir charm, I felt like mana leak was too many 2-drop counters, so I added spell pierce. Now that storm isn't a thing anymore, spell pierce may not be ideal. It is nice on the play to have up against disruption, but most other viable combo decks are creature combos, so I don't know. Force spike seems pretty weak, spell snare maybe better, since it snags melira, snapcaster, thalia, & most of the problematic jund creatures. I'll have to test.
Also, dimir charm has been just OK. The counter is pretty much useless, the mill is unnecessary, and smother is a cheaper way to kill off creatures. So I'm thinking about pulling it for smother. Also not enamored with serum visions as a cantrip. It doesn't flip delver of secrets reliably, and the filtering isn't super important given the deck has fetch. So I'm looking for a useful 1-cost noncreature spell to stick in that slot, a shame there isn't anything that works better with delver.
I think there is a thread already for it, but can,t find it.
Here is what i,m planning for the core:
Then, there is a lot of option and i'm not sure yet the way i want to take...
More control with cards like:
More aggro:
Could play more mill, but pretty sure this is not the way.
Still,there is:
Those are not expensive and a few of them could combine with Phantasm or extirpate.
Of course, bump in the night is an option, as aether vial is one.
What i like from hedron crab and Deathrite shaman is that their ability is cheap or free and can start the damage combo.
Any thought, i'm pretty sure this could be a good deck, the combo can easily start on turn 4.
The way I see it, for a perfect draw in a perfect world:
T1: Aether vial
T2: Vial into Crab or deathrite, put mind crank
T3: Vial into Duskmantle mage, kepp 3 Land, activate ability on opponent turn for the kill (if he's putting a card into GY).
If you play mill, try using extirpate or surgical extraction (or both) maindeck, it wins against combo and is nice in almost every matchup.