Some people say that Obzedat, Ghost Council is a rather bland general compared to his predecessor and underpowered as well in EDH. Obzedat might not be the most exciting new general ability wise (although I do think his blink ability is cool), but weak the council is definitely not. Obzedat is a great control finisher - cheap to cast, gains you life and is resilient. His blink ability has subtle synergies with multiple cards in the list. This is a control deck at heart, and if you like those (especially those without blue), you might very well like this one as well.
I will now try to expound on some of the interactions in the deck below.
Obzedat can only be eliminated on your turn if you choose to exile it every time. This means he evades sorcery speed removal, most clone and theft effects and mass removal. Righteous War means he is also not targetable by black or white spells, which are the premier removal colors. Bouncing the council is generally not worth it for the opponent and the red instant spells that can destroy it are few and far between. In general however, he does not have the biggest target placed on his head, as he is just a beater. You can use his life drain politically as well, by threatening to drain the person who killed it the next time you recast it.
Gain 2 life, target opponent loses two life, may not seem like much, but in a control deck it forms an effective win condition. The lifegain is very useful in a color combination that generally inflicts a lot of damage on itself.
The return to play trigger in your upkeep synergizes very well with a number of cards as well.
Placing the trigger of The Abyss or Call to Grave after the return trigger of Obzedat on the stack will allow you to have a 5/5 haste in play every turn without having to sacrifice it. Your opponents will have to continue sacrificing creatures however, making this a powerful way to control the board. It also evades Meekstone this way, which in its turn synergizes very well with Blind Obedience . Sun Titan and Elesh Norn , your reserve finishers have vigilance and thus also avoid Meekstone. Instant speed wraths, of which there are sadly very few, are also quite effective as you can cast them in response to the trigger. Rout and Planar Collapse are very powerful for this reason.
Sanguine Bond and Exquisite Blood go infinite together; all you need is a trigger to start the loop. Obzedat can also provide the trigger you need to set it off, a useful fact when your opponents will all start to gang up on you before one of them loses life. Either of these singularly is not bad with Obzedat, making it a useful combo. Bloodchief Ascension , Blind Obedience and Exsanguinate give you further opportunities to drain your opponents, making this a legitimate win condition in the long game.
Sun Titan can recur a large number of permanents and fetches, the most common being continuous removal every turn with Seal of Doom or Aura of Silence , protection from everything without the upkeep step with Solitary Confinement or any of your other value permanents. Additional recursion is supplied by Crucible of Worlds , Yawgmoth’s Will and Replenish .
Draw power is provided by Phyrexian Arena , Necropotence , Night’s Whisper , Underworld Connections , Dark Tutelage and Dark Confidant . The average cmc of the deck is 1.85, which means they are quite powerful. Once you have Obzedat out, the life loss isn’t a problem anyway. Land Tax , Tithe and Gift of Estates provide a continous stream of land drops, which are essential in this deck.
Cursed Totem , Torpor Orb , Stony Silence and Humility hate on various decks and are your best bet against combo decks, as most are dealt with by one of these cards. Solitary Confinement can help you against a lot of infinite combo’s as well.
The rest of the deck just fills out this shell by providing tutor effects, helping to stall until you can set up any of your engines. One last note on High Priest of Penance , so far I have found him to be very strong in dissuading opponents from attacking you, similar to Norn’s Annex and No Mercy . People generally don’t want to attack you if have him out and focus on easier targets. The land base is pretty standard for BW. Vault of the Archangel is pretty good with any of your creatures out, as deathtouch is great on offense and it can provide pretty big life swings with the council. Wasteland is the obligatory land destruction spell and Cavern of Souls helps you resolve Obzedat against counterspells, which are one of the best ways to answer him. High Market and Phyrexian Tower can sacrifice Academy Rector as well as stop Obzedat from getting tucked. Finally Bujoka Bog is the easiest way to slot in graveyard hate I could find that didn’t hinder your own recursion, stop Bloodchief Ascension or get stopped by Stony Silence .
Some other options I looked at are listed below. Most of these still require testing.
Perhaps not because of the mana curve, but Decree of Pain can be cycled... good with Humility out. Also Sphere of Safety... you have enough enchantments to make it better than the Annex.
Nice job taking a seemingly subpar general and coming up with a nice control list. The Abyss interaction is very neat.
Decree of pain is powerful, but eight mana is a lot for confidant and the cycling alone isn't worth it, I think. I will probably add sphere of safety instead of Gideon, who has not been impressive so far. Norn's annex is very good though, because it speeds up your clock and for most decks it is harder to pay life than pay manain the late game.
Forgot to add Kor Haven as well. I will cut tainted field for it.
Right, forgot about Bob and Dark Tutelage.... that could suck.
You could run Black Sun's Zenith as that would only hit you for two and is another wrath that doesn't care about indestructible.
I rarely see Terminus miracle-cast, so Hallowed Burial would cost less and sting less.
Null Rod as another Stony Silence perhaps. I tend to run both in a deck that hates on mana rocks and doesn't run them.
Tried Vizkopa Guildmage in my Vish Kal deck as another Sanguine Bond... it's pretty good, nice low CMC, and will give lifelink to the few creatures you have. Lifelink on Sun Titan or Obzedat seems good.
In case it's something you'd like, see Souls of the Faultless as a good rattlesnake in a lifegain based deck. Sun Titan target.
As far as what to cut for any of this, I might ditch Solitary Confinement, even with all the extra draw cards.
I'd second Grand Abolisher, but with a general that avoids sorcery speed removal, Grand Abolisher doesn't, so he might just be cannon fodder.
Uba Mask could be good once you're ready to lock things up.
Merciless Eviction vs. Austere Command depends on the meta. Against a Sharuum deck? I'll take Merciless thank you. Against Avacyn or Eldrazi? Merciless Eviction. They played Boros Charm? Merciless Eviction. Exile is key.
I was luck enough to pull one of these and wanted to make an edh with white in it so it was inspiring enough. I made a more budget friendly variety but need to cut a few more and was wondering if you had any suggestions?
any suggestions for a few to cut (3 to be exact)or switch to get to 36 lands would be amazing. theres a few obvious choices but i dont prefer to spends over 15$ on a single card let alone 100+.
Right, forgot about Bob and Dark Tutelage.... that could suck.
You could run Black Sun's Zenith as that would only hit you for two and is another wrath that doesn't care about indestructible.
I rarely see Terminus miracle-cast, so Hallowed Burial would cost less and sting less.
Null Rod as another Stony Silence perhaps. I tend to run both in a deck that hates on mana rocks and doesn't run them.
Tried Vizkopa Guildmage in my Vish Kal deck as another Sanguine Bond... it's pretty good, nice low CMC, and will give lifelink to the few creatures you have. Lifelink on Sun Titan or Obzedat seems good.
In case it's something you'd like, see Souls of the Faultless as a good rattlesnake in a lifegain based deck. Sun Titan target.
As far as what to cut for any of this, I might ditch Solitary Confinement, even with all the extra draw cards.
Black sun's zenith will replace elesh norn, which seems to be targeted by a lot of removal and the change will lower the curve substantially. Zenith also allows you to wrath and then rinse off the counters when you exile Obzedat.
I actually tutor for terminus with vampiric tutor quite often, so I think that opportunity makes it worth it over hallowed burial.
Null rod is a solid choice but I am unsure if I prefer it over cursed totem . I am afraid of drawing doubles of hate cards. I guess it depends mostly on how often you want to see the effect. I am happy with just the one now.
Vizkopa guildmage is pretty strong, but with so few creatures would often get killed. She also does not work under Humility, which is a pretty big strike against her for the combo route. Souls of the faultless suffers from the same problem, while good you can't afford to have your creatures to die without having any effect. Wall of omens replaces itself, making it more worthwhile as an early drop.
Solitary confinement is by far your best bet against combo decks - easy to tutor for, difficult to destroy and most combos can't win through it. It also works really with sun Titan.
Thanks. I've considered grand abolisher, but dying to all the removal you avoid with Obzedat makes it not worthwhile as Krause noted. Uba mask I had not thought about; I'm not sure if the amount of draw extra cards would make it counterproductive in this deck. I will try this one out sometime, nice suggestion.
I personally think merciless eviction is better than command in this deck. Planeswalkers are difficult to deal with for this deck, and I have found that in this deck I barely ever want to take out enchantments/ artifacts. Exiling is also pretty relevant, in my opinion. I think this really comes down to personal preference and meta.
Isn't Ghostly Prison immediately better than the annex, and lingering souls seems a little weak, but maybe not?
Lingering souls is just a value card. You are never unhappy to draw it. It can stop a couple of attacks, attack in the air a couple of times and the tokens are useful with humility. I can imagine cutting it, as it is never stellar, but it is always solid. Ghostly prison is easily paid for by most decks. In a deck that often wins through life drainage, Norn's Annex can easily hinder more attacks in the mid to late game as ghostly prison. Prison also doesn't stop your opponents from attacking planeswalkers.
I was luck enough to pull one of these and wanted to make an edh with white in it so it was inspiring enough. I made a more budget friendly variety but need to cut a few more and was wondering if you had any suggestions.
any suggestions for a few to cut (3 to be exact)or switch to get to 36 lands would be amazing. theres a few obvious choices but i dont prefer to spends over 15$ on a single card let alone 100+.
I would cut tangle wire, braids and smokestack. Your list doesn't really contain any of the token producers or recursive creatures that break the symmetry of these effects. I think they will often hinder you more than your opponents.
Thanks for all the suggestions and comments so far!
I would cut tangle wire, braids and smokestack. Your list doesn't really contain any of the token producers or recursive creatures that break the symmetry of these effects. I think they will often hinder you more than your opponents.
Thanks for all the suggestions and comments so far!
ya i definently would hate to set myself back. how do you feel about the two gideons?
ya i definently would hate to set myself back. how do you feel about the two gideons?
I think the original is pretty good. He stalls well and can kill tapped creatures. That said, he is one of the cards on the chopping block in my own list because he doesn't work with Norns annex, no mercy, etc. Oftentimes he is just an overpriced fog. The only reason he is still in the list is because he is a great win condition under Humility and with wraths, although Batterskull could fulfill that same role.
I don't think the new Gideon is very good in this type of deck because you don't have enough creatures to protect him. Getting to 15 counters seems difficult, and even then the payoff isn't even that great. I would stay away from the new one.
ya i was mainly considering tossing them in as potential win cons but i have in batterskull as the lifelink is always welcome and vigilance helps with meekstone. id love another way to solidify victory but im not into infinite combos with my playgroup such as the sanguine bond loop or autowins like felidar sovereign.
ya i was mainly considering tossing them in as potential win cons but i have in batterskull as the lifelink is always welcome and vigilance helps with meekstone. id love another way to solidify victory but im not into infinite combos with my playgroup such as the sanguine bond loop or autowins like felidar sovereign.
Since your list doesn't play Elspeth, Knight Errant I would strongly recommend adding her if you want another win condition. She also works really well with both meekstone and humility.
so i wanted to keep the stax with the pillowforting and came up with a more sac-oriented build. also cracked and decided to get some more expensive cards (as im concerned). without further ado...,
So i was thinking something along these lines maybe minus an austere/merciless as i dont wanna harm myself too much. Im almost wondering if a different general might be a bit more efficient..?
List looks solid. Teysa is good for token themes, although she lends herself best to a combo build. Obzedat is a really good general for a stax deck, though, as he protects himself quite handily from a lot of removal and the lifedrain is effective in keeping you alive.
Splashing another color into BW you can have Zur, which is probably the strongest general for stax there is.
List looks solid. Teysa is good for token themes, although she lends herself best to a combo build. Obzedat is a really good general for a stax deck, though, as he protects himself quite handily from a lot of removal and the lifedrain is effective in keeping you alive.
Splashing another color into BW you can have Zur, which is probably the strongest general for stax there is.
thanks, the only thing im worried is having enough tokens/creatures early enough but i suppose all the draw and tutor will help that. ive considered zur but i have enough trouble cutting for two colors and ive thought of vish kal but id hate for him to be a waste if i dont net enough tokens and i figured i should give obzedat a fair try first seeing as i pulled it anyways.
i also have taken some notes off your ruhan deck and am making a slightly cheaper version for mtgo that ill probably post up later.
unfortunately i never got to make mine (even though i still have my obzedat =\) but if i had used my second listing i developed and got humility out my next move would probably try to assume a creature advantage(maybe a sweeper or planeswalker) to be able to get through and get out batterskull to push the damage up quicker. not entirely sure how easy that would have been though.
Also curious how you would win under a resolved Humility?
The deck generally wins under Humility either via planeswalkers / Bitterblossom or the Sanguine Bond / Exquisite Blood combo. That said I wanted a more tutorable win condition under Humility so I added in Opalescence for Gideon Jura . Gideon was pretty good, but often just destroyed one creature before dying. As a win condition he was solid, but Opalescence is much better in that role. Opalescence is also easier to tutor, so that makes the cut.
I am also looking at adding in Helm of Obedience and Leyline of the Void as another win condition and as a good way to deal with graveyard shenanigans. Any thoughts on this?
Wouldn't you be afraid that Opalesence would make your enchantments vulnerable to board wipes?
It's just me, but I'm not a fan of leyling/helm combo, simply because helm is a subpar card in this deck that doesn't necessary do anything effective in the deck. Leyline is ok, but still kind of meh compared to other graveyard removal cards.
What do you think of Flashbag Marauder over Innocent Blood? It ensures you don't have to sac something else for the ability and it's pretty broken with Sun Titan.
Wouldn't you be afraid that Opalesence would make your enchantments vulnerable to board wipes?
What do you think of Flashbag Marauder over Innocent Blood? It ensures you don't have to sac something else for the ability and it's pretty broken with Sun Titan.
You always have Replenish in case you do run into a board wipe. That said, you won't drop Opalescence until you have 20+ power on the board of enchantments, which is quite common. In this phase of the game you can just one shot people at that point.
I think Innocent Blood is better for curve reasons. Sun Titan recursion isn't really a relevant argument as there are a lot of good cards in the list to bring back with Sun Titan. Marauder also doesn't work under humility. But I wouldn't fault anyone for switching these two, it is more personal preference than anything. Even just adding in marauder as an additional edict is viable.
Any black/white edh deck wth bitterblossom or some type of sac outlet should use Circle of Despair.
Sorry, haven't checked the thread in a while. Although it is quite a cool card which I didn't know before, you need more creatures for it to be effective. It is useless without a token producer, and even then with only one sacrifice a turn it seems more narrow than something like story circle.
And two new possible additions for the deck.
Blood Baron of Vizkopa 3BW
Creature - Vampire
Lifelink, protection from white and from black.
As long as you have 30 or more life and an opponent has 10 or less life, Blood Baron of Vizkopa gets +6/+6 and has flying.
4/4
Obzedat's Aid - 3BW
Sorcery
Return target permanent card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
The Baron is quite the win condition and has very relevant protections. Lifelink also starts up the sanguine bond/exquisite blood combo. Obzedat's Aid being able to return planeswalkers / artifacts as well as the other permanent types make it a great utility card.
This is a straight upgrade (I had already substituted it in my paper list), thanks for pointing it out. Trying out the Blood Baron over Elesh Norn, as the -2/-2 wasn't as necessary and the baron can survive the abyss.
Some people say that Obzedat, Ghost Council is a rather bland general compared to his predecessor and underpowered as well in EDH. Obzedat might not be the most exciting new general ability wise (although I do think his blink ability is cool), but weak the council is definitely not. Obzedat is a great control finisher - cheap to cast, gains you life and is resilient. His blink ability has subtle synergies with multiple cards in the list. This is a control deck at heart, and if you like those (especially those without blue), you might very well like this one as well.
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
Lands -36
2 Scrubland
3 Godless Shrine
4 Bloodstained Mire
5 Marsh Flats
6 Arid Mesa
7 Flooded Strand
8 Polluted Delta
9 Windswept Heath
10 Verdant Catacombs
11 Tainted Field
12 Caves of Koilos
13 Fetid Heath
14 Command Tower
15 City of Brass
16 Isolated Chapel
17 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
18 Ancient Tomb
19 High Market
20 Phyrexian Tower
21 Vault of the Archangel
22 Wasteland
23 Cavern of Souls
24 Bujoka Bog
25 Plains
26 Plains
27 Plains
28 Plains
29 Plains
30 Plains
31 Swamp
32 Swamp
33 Swamp
34 Swamp
35 Swamp
36 Swamp
37 Swamp
38 Bloodchief Ascension
39 Land Tax
40 Meekstone
41 Bitterblossom
42 Blind Obedience
43 Cursed Totem
44 Dark Confidant
45 High Priest of Penance
46 Knight of the White Orchid
47 Luminarch Ascension
48 Planar Collapse
49 Stony Silence
50 Torpor Orb
51 Wall of Omens
52 Aura of Silence
53 Crucible of Worlds
54 Dark Tutelage
55 Karmic Justice
56 Liliana of the Veil
57 Necropotence
58 Norn’s Annex
59 Oblivion Ring
60 Phyrexian Arena
61 Righteous War
62 Seal of Doom
63 Solitary Confinement
64 Underworld Connections
65 Academy Rector
66 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
67 Humility
68 No Mercy
69 Opalescence
70 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
71 The Abyss
73 Call to the Grave
74 Exquisite Blood
75 Sanguine Bond
76 Sun Titan
Instants/Sorceries- 24 (7/5/5/3/4)
77 Dismember
78 Enlightened Tutor
79 Innocent Blood
80 Path to Exile
81 Swords to Plowshares
82 Tithe
83 Vampiric Tutor
84 Demonic Tutor
85 Gift of Estates
86 Go for the Throat
87 Night’s Whisper
88 Victim of the Night
89 Idyllic Tutor
90 Lingering Souls
91 Mortify
92 Vindicate
93 Yawgmoth’s Will
94 Damnation
95 Replenish
96 Wrath of God
97 Debt to the Deathless
98 Merciless Eviction
99 Rout
100 Terminus
1 Aura of Silence
2 Call to the Grave
3 Cursed Totem
4 Damnation
5 Dismember
6 Go for the Throat
7 Innocent Blood
8 Liliana of the Veil
9 Merciless Eviction
10 Mortify
11 Oblivion Ring
12 Path to Exile
13 Planar Collapse
14 Rout
15 Seal of Doom
16 Stony Silence
17 Swords to Plowshares
18 Terminus
19 The Abyss
20 Torpor Orb
21 Victim of the Night
22 Vindicate
23 Wrath of God
24 Bitterblossom
25 Blind Obedience
26 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
27 Gideon Jura
28 High Priest of Penance
29 Humility
30 Karmic Justice
31 Lingering Souls
32 Luminarch Ascension
33 Meekstone
34 No Mercy
35 Norn’s Annex
36 Righteous War
37 Solitary Confinement
38 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
39 Wall of Omens
Draw/Tutor/Mana - 16
40 Academy Rector
41 Crucible of Worlds
42 Dark Confidant
43 Dark Tutelage
44 Demonic Tutor
45 Enlightened Tutor
46 Gift of Estates
47 Idyllic Tutor
48 Knight of the White Orchid
49 Land Tax
50 Necropotence
51 Night’s Whisper
52 Phyrexian Arena
53 Tithe
54 Underworld Connections
55 Vampiric Tutor
56 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
57 Bloodchief Ascension
58 Exquisite Blood
59 Exsanguinate
60 Replenish
61 Sanguine Bond
62 Sun Titan
63 Yawgmoth’s Will
Game play
Average cmc – 1.85
I will now try to expound on some of the interactions in the deck below.
Obzedat can only be eliminated on your turn if you choose to exile it every time. This means he evades sorcery speed removal, most clone and theft effects and mass removal. Righteous War means he is also not targetable by black or white spells, which are the premier removal colors. Bouncing the council is generally not worth it for the opponent and the red instant spells that can destroy it are few and far between. In general however, he does not have the biggest target placed on his head, as he is just a beater. You can use his life drain politically as well, by threatening to drain the person who killed it the next time you recast it.
Gain 2 life, target opponent loses two life, may not seem like much, but in a control deck it forms an effective win condition. The lifegain is very useful in a color combination that generally inflicts a lot of damage on itself.
The return to play trigger in your upkeep synergizes very well with a number of cards as well.
Placing the trigger of The Abyss or Call to Grave after the return trigger of Obzedat on the stack will allow you to have a 5/5 haste in play every turn without having to sacrifice it. Your opponents will have to continue sacrificing creatures however, making this a powerful way to control the board. It also evades Meekstone this way, which in its turn synergizes very well with Blind Obedience . Sun Titan and Elesh Norn , your reserve finishers have vigilance and thus also avoid Meekstone. Instant speed wraths, of which there are sadly very few, are also quite effective as you can cast them in response to the trigger. Rout and Planar Collapse are very powerful for this reason.
Sanguine Bond and Exquisite Blood go infinite together; all you need is a trigger to start the loop. Obzedat can also provide the trigger you need to set it off, a useful fact when your opponents will all start to gang up on you before one of them loses life. Either of these singularly is not bad with Obzedat, making it a useful combo. Bloodchief Ascension , Blind Obedience and Exsanguinate give you further opportunities to drain your opponents, making this a legitimate win condition in the long game.
Sun Titan can recur a large number of permanents and fetches, the most common being continuous removal every turn with Seal of Doom or Aura of Silence , protection from everything without the upkeep step with Solitary Confinement or any of your other value permanents. Additional recursion is supplied by Crucible of Worlds , Yawgmoth’s Will and Replenish .
Draw power is provided by Phyrexian Arena , Necropotence , Night’s Whisper , Underworld Connections , Dark Tutelage and Dark Confidant . The average cmc of the deck is 1.85, which means they are quite powerful. Once you have Obzedat out, the life loss isn’t a problem anyway. Land Tax , Tithe and Gift of Estates provide a continous stream of land drops, which are essential in this deck.
Cursed Totem , Torpor Orb , Stony Silence and Humility hate on various decks and are your best bet against combo decks, as most are dealt with by one of these cards. Solitary Confinement can help you against a lot of infinite combo’s as well.
The rest of the deck just fills out this shell by providing tutor effects, helping to stall until you can set up any of your engines. One last note on High Priest of Penance , so far I have found him to be very strong in dissuading opponents from attacking you, similar to Norn’s Annex and No Mercy . People generally don’t want to attack you if have him out and focus on easier targets. The land base is pretty standard for BW. Vault of the Archangel is pretty good with any of your creatures out, as deathtouch is great on offense and it can provide pretty big life swings with the council. Wasteland is the obligatory land destruction spell and Cavern of Souls helps you resolve Obzedat against counterspells, which are one of the best ways to answer him. High Market and Phyrexian Tower can sacrifice Academy Rector as well as stop Obzedat from getting tucked. Finally Bujoka Bog is the easiest way to slot in graveyard hate I could find that didn’t hinder your own recursion, stop Bloodchief Ascension or get stopped by Stony Silence .
Some other options I looked at are listed below. Most of these still require testing.
1 Porphyry Nodes
2 Serra Ascendant
3 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Animate Dead
5 Island Sanctuary
6 Null Rod
7 Seal of Cleansing
8 Crackdown
9 Fleshbag Marauder
10 Ghostly Prison
11 Underworld Dreams
12 Kismet
13 Night of Soul’s Betrayal
14 Pursuit of Knowledge
15 Vedalken Orrery
16 Well of Lost Dreams
17 Felidar Sovereign
18 Treasury Thrull
19 Entomb
20 Faith’s Shield
21 Orim’s Chant
22 Tragic Slip
23 Rebuff the Wicked
24 Chainer’s Edict
25 Honor the Fallen
26 Imp’s Mischief
27 Plunge into Darkness
28 Shelter
29 Tainted Pact
30 Withering Boon
31 Sudden Death
32 Survival Cache
33 Unmake
34 Wing Shards
35 Balancing Act
36 Black Sun’s Zenith
37 Consuming Vapors
38 Day of Judgement
39 Insidious Dreams
40 Slaughter
41 Snuff Out
42 Ad Nauseam
43 Austere Command
44 Entreat the Angels
45 Moonlight Bargain
46 Necrologia
47 Promise of Power
Finally, thanks for reading and if you have any suggestions I would very much like to hear them. Detail is much appreciated!
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Nice job taking a seemingly subpar general and coming up with a nice control list. The Abyss interaction is very neat.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Forgot to add Kor Haven as well. I will cut tainted field for it.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
You could run Black Sun's Zenith as that would only hit you for two and is another wrath that doesn't care about indestructible.
I rarely see Terminus miracle-cast, so Hallowed Burial would cost less and sting less.
Null Rod as another Stony Silence perhaps. I tend to run both in a deck that hates on mana rocks and doesn't run them.
Tried Vizkopa Guildmage in my Vish Kal deck as another Sanguine Bond... it's pretty good, nice low CMC, and will give lifelink to the few creatures you have. Lifelink on Sun Titan or Obzedat seems good.
In case it's something you'd like, see Souls of the Faultless as a good rattlesnake in a lifegain based deck. Sun Titan target.
As far as what to cut for any of this, I might ditch Solitary Confinement, even with all the extra draw cards.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Have you considered Grand abolisher or Uba Mask? These can protect Obzedat from instant speed removal and have other benefits as well.
EDIT: I'm pretty sure Austere Command is better than Merciless Eviction
Arahbo, Kitty Kat Beatdown Decklist
Mizzix of the Izmagnus Decklist
Breya, Etherium Shaper
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Decklist
My Current Set Cube Lists:
Kamigawa Re-Experience
Ravnica, City of Guilds Re-Experience
Alara Re-Experience
Uba Mask could be good once you're ready to lock things up.
Merciless Eviction vs. Austere Command depends on the meta. Against a Sharuum deck? I'll take Merciless thank you. Against Avacyn or Eldrazi? Merciless Eviction. They played Boros Charm? Merciless Eviction. Exile is key.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Isn't Ghostly Prison immediately better than the annex, and lingering souls seems a little weak, but maybe not?
Arahbo, Kitty Kat Beatdown Decklist
Mizzix of the Izmagnus Decklist
Breya, Etherium Shaper
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Decklist
My Current Set Cube Lists:
Kamigawa Re-Experience
Ravnica, City of Guilds Re-Experience
Alara Re-Experience
any suggestions for a few to cut (3 to be exact)or switch to get to 36 lands would be amazing. theres a few obvious choices but i dont prefer to spends over 15$ on a single card let alone 100+.
EDH:
:symgu:Momir Vig:symug:, :symgw::symug::symwu:Jenara:symwu::symug::symwg:
current paper:
EDH:
:symub:Grim-grin tribal:symbu:, :symrb:olivia ramp and double:symbr:, :azorius::boros::izzet:zedruu's ideal:azorius::boros::izzet:
Black sun's zenith will replace elesh norn, which seems to be targeted by a lot of removal and the change will lower the curve substantially. Zenith also allows you to wrath and then rinse off the counters when you exile Obzedat.
I actually tutor for terminus with vampiric tutor quite often, so I think that opportunity makes it worth it over hallowed burial.
Null rod is a solid choice but I am unsure if I prefer it over cursed totem . I am afraid of drawing doubles of hate cards. I guess it depends mostly on how often you want to see the effect. I am happy with just the one now.
Vizkopa guildmage is pretty strong, but with so few creatures would often get killed. She also does not work under Humility, which is a pretty big strike against her for the combo route. Souls of the faultless suffers from the same problem, while good you can't afford to have your creatures to die without having any effect. Wall of omens replaces itself, making it more worthwhile as an early drop.
Solitary confinement is by far your best bet against combo decks - easy to tutor for, difficult to destroy and most combos can't win through it. It also works really with sun Titan.
Thanks. I've considered grand abolisher, but dying to all the removal you avoid with Obzedat makes it not worthwhile as Krause noted. Uba mask I had not thought about; I'm not sure if the amount of draw extra cards would make it counterproductive in this deck. I will try this one out sometime, nice suggestion.
I personally think merciless eviction is better than command in this deck. Planeswalkers are difficult to deal with for this deck, and I have found that in this deck I barely ever want to take out enchantments/ artifacts. Exiling is also pretty relevant, in my opinion. I think this really comes down to personal preference and meta.
Lingering souls is just a value card. You are never unhappy to draw it. It can stop a couple of attacks, attack in the air a couple of times and the tokens are useful with humility. I can imagine cutting it, as it is never stellar, but it is always solid. Ghostly prison is easily paid for by most decks. In a deck that often wins through life drainage, Norn's Annex can easily hinder more attacks in the mid to late game as ghostly prison. Prison also doesn't stop your opponents from attacking planeswalkers.
I would cut tangle wire, braids and smokestack. Your list doesn't really contain any of the token producers or recursive creatures that break the symmetry of these effects. I think they will often hinder you more than your opponents.
Thanks for all the suggestions and comments so far!
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
ya i definently would hate to set myself back. how do you feel about the two gideons?
EDH:
:symgu:Momir Vig:symug:, :symgw::symug::symwu:Jenara:symwu::symug::symwg:
current paper:
EDH:
:symub:Grim-grin tribal:symbu:, :symrb:olivia ramp and double:symbr:, :azorius::boros::izzet:zedruu's ideal:azorius::boros::izzet:
I think the original is pretty good. He stalls well and can kill tapped creatures. That said, he is one of the cards on the chopping block in my own list because he doesn't work with Norns annex, no mercy, etc. Oftentimes he is just an overpriced fog. The only reason he is still in the list is because he is a great win condition under Humility and with wraths, although Batterskull could fulfill that same role.
I don't think the new Gideon is very good in this type of deck because you don't have enough creatures to protect him. Getting to 15 counters seems difficult, and even then the payoff isn't even that great. I would stay away from the new one.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
EDH:
:symgu:Momir Vig:symug:, :symgw::symug::symwu:Jenara:symwu::symug::symwg:
current paper:
EDH:
:symub:Grim-grin tribal:symbu:, :symrb:olivia ramp and double:symbr:, :azorius::boros::izzet:zedruu's ideal:azorius::boros::izzet:
Since your list doesn't play Elspeth, Knight Errant I would strongly recommend adding her if you want another win condition. She also works really well with both meekstone and humility.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
1 braids, cabal minion
1 humility
1 leyline of the void
1 karmic justice
1 smokestack
1 blind obedience
1 aura of silence
1 tangle wire
1 meekstone
1 mana web
1 defense grid
pillowfort:7
1 no mercy
1 sphere of safety
1 reverance
1 ensnaring bridge
1 norn's annex
1 ghostly prison
1 lightmine field
ramp: 8
1 solemn simulacrum
1 tithe
1 gift of estates
1 sol ring
1 chromatic lantern
1 orzhov signet
1 coldsteel heart
1 land tax
1 bloodghast
1 nether traitor
1 reassembling skeleton
1 luminarch ascension
1 mimic vat
1 sacred mesa
1 bitterblossom
1 martial coup
1 elspeth tirel
1 elspeth, knight errant
removal:8
1 black sun's zenith
1 day of judgement
1 dismember
1 unmake
1 merciless eviction
1 oblivion ring
1 austere command
1 planar collapse
draw/tutor: 8
1 necropotence
1 skullclamp
1 academy rector
1 sensei's divining top
1 phyrexian arena
1 underworld connection
1 vampiric tutor
1 demonic tutor
1 crucible of world's
1 replenish
1 sun titan
1 faith's reward
1 treasury thrull
utility: 7
1 trading post
1 batterskull
1 greater auramancy
1 leyline of sanctity
1 grand abolisher
1 solitary confinement
General:
1 Obzedat, ghost council
So i was thinking something along these lines maybe minus an austere/merciless as i dont wanna harm myself too much. Im almost wondering if a different general might be a bit more efficient..?
EDH:
:symgu:Momir Vig:symug:, :symgw::symug::symwu:Jenara:symwu::symug::symwg:
current paper:
EDH:
:symub:Grim-grin tribal:symbu:, :symrb:olivia ramp and double:symbr:, :azorius::boros::izzet:zedruu's ideal:azorius::boros::izzet:
Splashing another color into BW you can have Zur, which is probably the strongest general for stax there is.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
thanks, the only thing im worried is having enough tokens/creatures early enough but i suppose all the draw and tutor will help that. ive considered zur but i have enough trouble cutting for two colors and ive thought of vish kal but id hate for him to be a waste if i dont net enough tokens and i figured i should give obzedat a fair try first seeing as i pulled it anyways.
i also have taken some notes off your ruhan deck and am making a slightly cheaper version for mtgo that ill probably post up later.
EDH:
:symgu:Momir Vig:symug:, :symgw::symug::symwu:Jenara:symwu::symug::symwg:
current paper:
EDH:
:symub:Grim-grin tribal:symbu:, :symrb:olivia ramp and double:symbr:, :azorius::boros::izzet:zedruu's ideal:azorius::boros::izzet:
Also curious how you would win under a resolved Humility?
Arahbo, Kitty Kat Beatdown Decklist
Mizzix of the Izmagnus Decklist
Breya, Etherium Shaper
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Decklist
My Current Set Cube Lists:
Kamigawa Re-Experience
Ravnica, City of Guilds Re-Experience
Alara Re-Experience
EDH:
:symgu:Momir Vig:symug:, :symgw::symug::symwu:Jenara:symwu::symug::symwg:
current paper:
EDH:
:symub:Grim-grin tribal:symbu:, :symrb:olivia ramp and double:symbr:, :azorius::boros::izzet:zedruu's ideal:azorius::boros::izzet:
The deck generally wins under Humility either via planeswalkers / Bitterblossom or the Sanguine Bond / Exquisite Blood combo. That said I wanted a more tutorable win condition under Humility so I added in Opalescence for Gideon Jura . Gideon was pretty good, but often just destroyed one creature before dying. As a win condition he was solid, but Opalescence is much better in that role. Opalescence is also easier to tutor, so that makes the cut.
I am also looking at adding in Helm of Obedience and Leyline of the Void as another win condition and as a good way to deal with graveyard shenanigans. Any thoughts on this?
Update:
+ 1 Opalescence
- 1 Gideon Jura
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
It's just me, but I'm not a fan of leyling/helm combo, simply because helm is a subpar card in this deck that doesn't necessary do anything effective in the deck. Leyline is ok, but still kind of meh compared to other graveyard removal cards.
What do you think of Flashbag Marauder over Innocent Blood? It ensures you don't have to sac something else for the ability and it's pretty broken with Sun Titan.
Arahbo, Kitty Kat Beatdown Decklist
Mizzix of the Izmagnus Decklist
Breya, Etherium Shaper
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Decklist
My Current Set Cube Lists:
Kamigawa Re-Experience
Ravnica, City of Guilds Re-Experience
Alara Re-Experience
You always have Replenish in case you do run into a board wipe. That said, you won't drop Opalescence until you have 20+ power on the board of enchantments, which is quite common. In this phase of the game you can just one shot people at that point.
I think Innocent Blood is better for curve reasons. Sun Titan recursion isn't really a relevant argument as there are a lot of good cards in the list to bring back with Sun Titan. Marauder also doesn't work under humility. But I wouldn't fault anyone for switching these two, it is more personal preference than anything. Even just adding in marauder as an additional edict is viable.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Sorry, haven't checked the thread in a while. Although it is quite a cool card which I didn't know before, you need more creatures for it to be effective. It is useless without a token producer, and even then with only one sacrifice a turn it seems more narrow than something like story circle.
And two new possible additions for the deck.
Blood Baron of Vizkopa 3BW
Creature - Vampire
Lifelink, protection from white and from black.
As long as you have 30 or more life and an opponent has 10 or less life, Blood Baron of Vizkopa gets +6/+6 and has flying.
4/4
Obzedat's Aid - 3BW
Sorcery
Return target permanent card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
The Baron is quite the win condition and has very relevant protections. Lifelink also starts up the sanguine bond/exquisite blood combo. Obzedat's Aid being able to return planeswalkers / artifacts as well as the other permanent types make it a great utility card.
Any thoughts?
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Arahbo, Kitty Kat Beatdown Decklist
Mizzix of the Izmagnus Decklist
Breya, Etherium Shaper
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Decklist
My Current Set Cube Lists:
Kamigawa Re-Experience
Ravnica, City of Guilds Re-Experience
Alara Re-Experience
This is a straight upgrade (I had already substituted it in my paper list), thanks for pointing it out. Trying out the Blood Baron over Elesh Norn, as the -2/-2 wasn't as necessary and the baron can survive the abyss.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC