The release of Gatecrash introduces a new Martyr of Sands strategy thanks to Vizkopa Guildmage. Suddenly, Martyr of Sands revealing seven cards is actually lethal. This is, without a doubt, my favorite recent deck to come out of Magic Online. The deck absolutely crushes anything trying to play fair and the sideboard could be adapted to play more discard to help in the combo matchups. Squadron Hawk helps the deck always have a fistful of white cards to reveal for Martyr of Sands and Ranger of Eos keeps your life total healthy or ends the game quickly with a few gigantic Serra Ascendants. Expect this deck to pick up some steam in the coming weeks. This is what I'd be playing if I were to venture off to a Modern tournament this coming weekend.
What are your thoughts on this deck and card choices? Seems interesting to me, but I do not have much experience with this type of build.
I was checking the decklists earlier today, I really like it but I don't agree on the windbrisk heights too much... most of the times the 4 cards are going to be either cheap ones or card you probably need right in a specific moment, which can cause issues.What if I don't want to attack with 3 creatures now for some reasons?
It's really strong but also really annoying sometimes.Also when you get 4 cards with 1cmc and the other deck has no discard(which is the whole point of the hideaway, you save important cards from discard effects) you have to pay it 2 basically...I guess it's a good trade but still...I like the card generally but I don't know if I want to bring it in a WB build.
I really can't like the orzhov charm, but I can see the uses now after a few more tests, still...I wish I just liked it since most people think is the best thing ever, but whatever, it runs nicely.
Persecution is a nice card, basically a board cleaner against DRS/birds/everything that has 1 constitution, and +1/+1 on all our cards.Wish I had seen it earlier =P
edit: I wonder, opinion on dark confidant in this deck? I still feel it's great, we usually have enough life to be above 30, and bob just makes it easier (darw more, get 8-9 cards in hand, pop martyr, bob paid itself more than enough), maybe there's a reason I'm not getting? Our cmc is also decent, a bit higher on some cards but what are the odds of a martyr based deck having life issues in most matchups?
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Vintage nostalgic, WUB Fish control/aggro addicted.
Legacy:RUG Temur Delver
Modern: ??? undecided.
I am going to cut a couple and see if that works better.
Bob is a good card, but I am not sure if it deserves a spot in this deck. Keep in mind all of the cards are white to allow the most life gain from Martyr of Sands. Also, cards like Proclamation of Rebirth, Orzhov Charm, and Ranger of Eos shine with the low cost/power creatures currently in this list. Vizkopa Guildmage and Ranger of Eos fill specific roles, and I am not sure if it is worth adding another non-white card that does not work well with the other cards.
Yeah, vault is kinda nice because it makes all the 1/1 threats with deathtouch, and when you're in topdeck mode rarely you need all your mana in mid-to-late game.Atleast with mono white martyr proc...and from my experience.
I still think bob can get a place there, it would be the only black card, and he will draw us more white ones unless you get the other 3 dark confidants, we don't mind the lifeloss in most situations, he isn't synergistic for his 2 CMC but he's also a prime target for removal.
Basically pros/cons would be:
pros:
-Draws us more, which is kinda a problem of the deck when it goes into topdeck mode
-Prime target for removal means that people have to choose to remove one of our attacking threats like the ascendant OR kill bob to stop our draws.This is quite a big one since every removal that isn't going to our threats to me is a huge plus.
Cons:
-We pay the draws with life which in SOME cases will bring us below 30, but in my tests(around 10-15 games but had also a red splash) it's really rare if we play it right.When it happens it's half bad but we have ways to deal with
-He's non-white so can't be pithced on martyr, but he really pays himself off by giving us +1 draw per turn which is probably going to be a white card(we don't run that many lands)
I can't think of more, but I'd still try him, the real question is what we could cut to have him.
As for windbrisk replacement... flagstones of trokair? Emeria, the sky ruin? More basics? Can't think of something really impactful besides emeria which is, in my opinion, a nice 1 or 2x since if it comes online, it's a prime target for removal and if they can't, we will get a recursion engine online pretty easily.
Flagstones can be used to tap, play another, fetch 2 plains, get 3 mana, do something, but meh...
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Vintage nostalgic, WUB Fish control/aggro addicted.
Legacy:RUG Temur Delver
Modern: ??? undecided.
I saw this list last night and thought it was awfully interesting. I'm on BW tokens at the moment, but it wouldn't take many cards to switch over to a build like this.
I think Windbrisk Heights is fine in the deck, it's not a problem on the mana-base in BW tokens. In that deck it's one of the only sources of CA, and it's almost a freebie. I could see not playing 4 (having them always etb tapped is a little bit of a pain), but 2 or 3 should still be reasonable. Same with Vault of the Archangel, it's probably fine as a 1-of, but 2 might not be necessary. I'm sort of surprised there aren't more copies of Godless Shrine.
I'm guessing Dark Confidant is missing since he isn't white, but it could be worth trying. Might just be that CML didn't have access to them.
I might try Spectral Procession over Lingering Souls? 1 mana/dude seems like a better deal than 1.25 mana/dude, even if souls gets you 4 bodies in the end.
Based on my experience with tokens, I do wonder if making some room in the board for a couple edict effects might be worth it. It's a nice way of trying to deal with Geist of Saint Traft and Infect/Auras.
Is this just now becoming a thing? This super hot chick at my LGS was foaming at the mouth when Vizkopa Guildmage got spoiled and has ran it w/ black support since GTC released. It wins a lot of MU's pretty handily (minus infect nutdraws, of course). The Kami of False Hope softlock sounds hilarious against Infect if you can live that long.
Auriok Champion is good sb tech against RDW and variants, but you'll face a lot more Kiki-Pod and/or Splinter Twin, and Suture Priest makes them cry (not so much with KJ and Resto Angel).
Edit- Dark Confidant flipping a Spectral Procession T3 with no soul ladies out would suuuuuck in a lot of matchups.
I saw this list last night and thought it was awfully interesting. I'm on BW tokens at the moment, but it wouldn't take many cards to switch over to a build like this.
I think Windbrisk Heights is fine in the deck, it's not a problem on the mana-base in BW tokens. In that deck it's one of the only sources of CA, and it's almost a freebie. I could see not playing 4 (having them always etb tapped is a little bit of a pain), but 2 or 3 should still be reasonable. Same with Vault of the Archangel, it's probably fine as a 1-of, but 2 might not be necessary. I'm sort of surprised there aren't more copies of Godless Shrine.
I'm guessing Dark Confidant is missing since he isn't white, but it could be worth trying. Might just be that CML didn't have access to them.
I might try Spectral Procession over Lingering Souls? 1 mana/dude seems like a better deal than 1.25 mana/dude, even if souls gets you 4 bodies in the end.
Based on my experience with tokens, I do wonder if making some room in the board for a couple edict effects might be worth it. It's a nice way of trying to deal with Geist of Saint Traft and Infect/Auras.
I guess that a 2 of windbrisk is definitely better as a choice if you want to run it.I have tried a few games with 2 and a few games with 4(10 games with each iteration) and while not statistically accurate, since it's kinda hard if not impossible to get real statistical data, having 4 feels a lot clunkier than needed.
Spectral is a nice card BUT, the WWW cost in a splashed deck is a huge pain in some cases, I do like it ten times more than lingering, but the flexible mana cost is the deal of the card.I can see spec procession working better in a monoW but maybe if you could remove it with windbrisk a few times it would prove to be stronger....
The issue of auriok champion is that you can't tutor him with eos/recur him with emeria or proclamation, since she has a 2 cmc.The effect is definitely strong if you have issues with red decks mostly, I've found that people LOVE to bolt our creatures as soon as they enter, but they usually don't target the martyr(you can sac in response) and they don't really care about our 1/1 creatures unless it's an unpowered ascendant...
I feel it is a bit redundant and well...it goes more into a soul sisters oriented deck, where it could replace a couple sisters for more black/red hate in cases you'd need it(which I don't know how often is needed)
By the way I have only experience with the mono W but usually geist is a easy thing to deal with, he's a 2/2 body that hits for 6 due to the token, but most players will not attack once we have 2-3 creatures in play since we either don't care about blocking him or his 6 damage isn't even nearly enough to threaten us.In this build the zealous persecution makes him a 1/1 which dies by anything(and at the same time our blocker gets +1/+1) so it should be fine...
Also I was thinking that maybe we have too many lands, if we change a couple windbrisk with NON-etb cards, 24 mana sources feels hardcore, our top 1 weakness is to go into topdeck mode I feel, since we usually don't draw that well, and we go into flood quite easily(atleast I do...but maybe it's a shuffler issue?) think we could run 22-23 and get 1-2 slots for more power...What you guys think?
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Vintage nostalgic, WUB Fish control/aggro addicted.
Legacy:RUG Temur Delver
Modern: ??? undecided.
The WWW on Spectral Procession is rarely a problem in BW tokens, and that deck has even more Black cards in the deck. Worst case it can always be a turn 4 play at 2WW.
In any case, since you aren't running anthems in this deck, which would make Procession a bit lower impact, I could see where the additional body from Lingering Souls might make it a bit better.
CML is...Chris Morris Lent? He use to write for star city games and tcgplayer before that.
Another thing to note.
_Bantitinha_ (or however it's spelled) placed 18th I believe with the deck running kami of false hope and sun Titan md. I don't believe he ran orzhov charm and I haven't looked to see if results from yesterday's ptq are up yet.
I agree with running a full 4 heights. You don't need a t1 play and they give you card advantage. They're sometimes a good combat trick and other times a way to stay ahead on board. I wouldn't run less than 3, but preferably 4.
Dark Confidant flipping a Spectral Procession T3 with no soul ladies out would suuuuuck in a lot of matchups.
Why would you run proc over L. souls...? there's not enough room to play both and you should always pick L. souls over proc if you have the colors to do it.
Bob seems like an obvious choice, the CA it provides at such a low life payment is too good to pass up. a resolved Bob will give you the gas to push into mid-late game, and since the deck already has a very favorable matchup against aggro, Bob just adds insult to injury.
Another thing to note.
_Bantitinha_ (or however it's spelled) placed 18th I believe with the deck running kami of false hope and sun Titan md. I don't believe he ran orzhov charm and I haven't looked to see if results from yesterday's ptq are up yet.
Yes he was playing orzhov charm. He played against Andrew Cuneo in a pretty sweet match:
Why would you run proc over L. souls...? there's not enough room to play both and you should always pick L. souls over proc if you have the colors to do it.
Bob seems like an obvious choice, the CA it provides at such a low life payment is too good to pass up. a resolved Bob will give you the gas to push into mid-late game, and since the deck already has a very favorable matchup against aggro, Bob just adds insult to injury.
Guess I'm still stuck in my mono-white lifegain aggro ways. If added to the list in the OP, it'd be a little nerve-racking running so many 4cmc cards, but that small risk aside, it's definitely at home.
As this deck does not rely solely on attacking with creatures and tokens and utilizes other ways to win, I definitely would choose Lingering Souls for this particular deck.
So, not the same deck variant, but since this thread is devoted to Orzhov variants, I thought I should post here. Thoughts on a more aggro build (no Vizkopa Guildmage/Martyr of Sands combo) that's basically just a black splash for more card advantage?
No sideboard designed yet. I've been able to get Serra Ascendant active surprisingly often despite Dark Confidant and the life-hungry mana base, mainly because Confidant gives me more creatures for the Sisters to begin with. But it seems like this build could be more optimal. Not sure how.
this is not an aggro deck (except vs combo)
cipt lands are therefore minimally awkward
the deck is inconsistent, but not for modern. in particular in this die-roll format martyr is decent enough on the draw (compare with living end, which goes from sweet on the play to terrible on the draw)
playing less than 4 windbrisk is crazy, with ranger / windbrisk / hawk / mistveil / spectral we have one of the strongest CA engines in the format, certainly far stronger than any fair blue deck; it's outclassed by bob for sure but it's also more resilient
souls is 1000x better than procession all the time in every way, just play with it and you'll see
vault is great and i think 2's the right number, give it a try too
guildmage is there to race combo or grind out control (i.e. when you want games to go very short or very long), it's an absolute necessity in paper magic where you need to kill them at some point but on modo you can cut it and just be an f6 hero (if you're not an f6 hero, you gotta become one or play a different deck!)
i coulda bobbed (i've bobbed in martyr before!) but i didn't want to make the deck even worse against 1-toughness sweepers and i thought it would worsen the aggro matchups unacceptably. bob + wrath also isn't the greatest (sculler + wrath isn't either). i'm trying phyrexian arenas in the board, though, as the rare long games you lose, you lose because you flood.
this deck is pretty tough to play. especially live, when you have to look at the clock and tap your mana correctly and keep track of a million things that aren't right in front of you like they are on modo. my playgroup is composed mainly of people whose playskill exceeds mine and NONE of them have been able to play this deck well. i often make inaccurate plays, and i've been playing both martyr and modern since the format's inception.
my main tip is to hold cards in hand vs. the fair decks. imagine what kind of advantage you can get with a spell in hand before casting it. always play around all counterspells when you could resolve a hawk. souls gives us a lot of leeway to play into counters. heights and souls can force them to tap out, at which point we can resolve a ranger and just win the game. we have a terrific long game.
at the ptq's i played on consecutive weekends (2-2 drop / 6-1-1 for 9th in paper, then 8-1 3rd / 4-2 drop on modo) i felt like i had the strongest deck in the room. i was fortunate to face good matchups all day in the modo tourney, and of course i ran good to get 3rd but i was unfortunate not to take it home once i got to that point. you still mull to five sometimes ...
cards that are bad for us: sowap, solas, surgical
tested cards that are confirmed bad: any one-drop (WW, Student, Figure); ghostly prison; soul warden; spectral procession; honor of the pure; sorin; necrotic sliver
possible cards: bob, solas, sowap, phyrexian arena, disenchant, hide//seek, jotun grunt, batwing brume
any questions are very welcome! i dislike playing mtg unless i make my own decks, and this is my finest deck to date, but in order to brew i netdeck way more than the average fnm helot.
CML, after playing in 4 ptq's, any planned changes to the 75?
Also, how did Sun Titan off the board work out for you? Which matchups did it come in against?
Oh hey CML, awesome to see a post from you, was tempted to forward the discussion in pm to bring it to your attention, I just came back from a local tourny(don't be fooled, pretty much super competitive, we just had most of our strong roster qualify in top 4 in a couple ptq's missing wins just by some slight issues which are being refined)
I must say I had a super fun time, but I think I'm either too bad for the deck or that I've had some questions in mind which would explain a few things for me:
I'll recap my tourny at best of my memory
game 1 UWR lost 2-1
Game one was my first real UWR game, never had a chance to try it out, I kept a decent hand which then went into killing me since it wasn't that decent...can't remember details but I lost 1, won second, almost won third but we ended at turns and well...when turns almost ended he killed me with a geist...but only barely, I did misplay a couple since I was unsure on how to play against UWR yet.
Seconda game uwr won 1-0
Again another super slow control, I won easily game one, albeit we dragged a bit since he tried to find answers and he didn't knew my deck had better counter-answers(wrath into proclamation into 80 life into gg), game 2 I was dominating but got stalled and ended at turns, still a win for me.I did love the 15 damage overkill of vizkopa in one game =P
Game 3 gruul aggro 2-0 for me
First game went superscary since he got a double rancored 4/4 with trample, I managed to find answers and win by a couple good topdecks.Game 2 he sided but didn't get that many answers and a turn 2 blind obedience into a wrath when he kinda forgot I had one in hand won me the game.Was the easiest
Game 4 mono U tron...0-2 for me
I knew I was going to get paired with my friend that got me back into magic since we always joked about it.We had to play it since we were both barely entering top 8, and well...I was at 6 points he was at 4, we could've tried some shenanigans but well didn't go as planned.Now tron I feel is THE matchup in my meta I just can't win in any way....
game 1 mindslave combo comes online, he draws a wrath from my topdeck, clears the board and in any case I was locked just the salt in the wound and even if I had a good presence, I just couldn't do anything to stop him since he had a godly hand anyway.Game 2 I sided some hate and aggressively mulliganed for it, got a turn 2 stony silence into play, and the game dragged, I couldn't break 30 life since I didn't draw martyrs, and when I had ways he had a recurring counterspell(something with buyback3) and with urza online...well.He did kill me with a flying 5/5 and wurmcoil engine and since I have to wake up early, I didn't go on and see how the tourney kept going...
Now if you are still reading this: it might be my meta, or I might just be bad but...Here atleast 2-3 players mainboard or sideboard blood moons, I couldn't have done much with all the non basic lands if I was paired with them game 1, and windbrisk...I understand the point but I never had 3 creatures on board to activate it and when I had I was either winning, or was just desperate...Thing is people here are fairly aggressive and tend to kill souls tokens and hawks and since they are 1/1 they easily go down to electrolyze, bolts and such(even thundermaw hellkite which is quite easy to see) so I can't really use them, most of the times they were dead draws.
Mistveils also where just never used since I was always too constrained with mana to activate them, or people just had enough ways to remove my cards, when they didn't I just didn't have anything worth reshuffling at 2 mana cost(tap to activate and tap the mistveil), they also came in tapped which in a couple of the pre-tourney tests just weren't bringing enough worth.I can see the lands potential but in my meta, they're almost surely dead draws.
I understand your point on the lands but I have found them huge issues in my games...I think I'm going to personally try and change the deck for my meta here and bring a couple more basics to avoid the blood moon(most games I didn't draw a fetch/basic so I would've lost there if they had), and probably I'm considering some hate against tron, I'm not sure we can support tectonic edge or quarter though...manabase felt either too short, or just flooding(second uwr game of the swiss I had 12 lands in play starting with a 1 land hand...ok we went to time and turns but damn..)
I'm also unsure on bob, I think it would've changed the dynamics, in control games they couldn't kill my creatures AND kill me, so it would've been a fantastic bait, and if he enters I'm just getting free draws.Against other decks excluding maybe the gruul I think he's ok and could be even sided in some cases.I'm not sure if I'm ok with the mainboard, I guess you know better and won't change it, but surely I have big issues with the mana base...it's just not working here <.<
edit: forgot,I'm also considering emeria as a 1x or 2x, seems nice in longer games, also...surgical extraction on a martyr was the play of the night in the first 2-1 swiss round, definitely was GG there, i kept playing but lost there...ideas how to not fold to that in game 2 or 3? Feels an almost auto-win...
CML's Orzhov Lifegain
Modern – Top 8, Magic Online PTQ, March 10
2 Godless Shrine
3 Isolated Chapel
4 Marsh Flats
2 Mistveil Plains
4 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Vault of the Archangel
4 Windbrisk Heights
24 lands
4 Martyr of Sands
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Serra Ascendant
4 Squadron Hawk
3 Vizkopa Guildmage
19 creatures
3 Orzhov Charm
3 Path to Exile
2 Proclamation of Rebirth
3 Wrath of God
2 Zealous Persecution
17 other spells
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Blind Obedience
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Stony Silence
1 Sun Titan
1 Zealous Persecution
15 sideboard cards
Quote from Jacob Van Lunen:
What are your thoughts on this deck and card choices? Seems interesting to me, but I do not have much experience with this type of build.
Sales Thread!
It's really strong but also really annoying sometimes.Also when you get 4 cards with 1cmc and the other deck has no discard(which is the whole point of the hideaway, you save important cards from discard effects) you have to pay it 2 basically...I guess it's a good trade but still...I like the card generally but I don't know if I want to bring it in a WB build.
I really can't like the orzhov charm, but I can see the uses now after a few more tests, still...I wish I just liked it since most people think is the best thing ever, but whatever, it runs nicely.
Persecution is a nice card, basically a board cleaner against DRS/birds/everything that has 1 constitution, and +1/+1 on all our cards.Wish I had seen it earlier =P
edit: I wonder, opinion on dark confidant in this deck? I still feel it's great, we usually have enough life to be above 30, and bob just makes it easier (darw more, get 8-9 cards in hand, pop martyr, bob paid itself more than enough), maybe there's a reason I'm not getting? Our cmc is also decent, a bit higher on some cards but what are the odds of a martyr based deck having life issues in most matchups?
Legacy:RUG Temur Delver
Modern: ??? undecided.
I am going to cut a couple and see if that works better.
Bob is a good card, but I am not sure if it deserves a spot in this deck. Keep in mind all of the cards are white to allow the most life gain from Martyr of Sands. Also, cards like Proclamation of Rebirth, Orzhov Charm, and Ranger of Eos shine with the low cost/power creatures currently in this list. Vizkopa Guildmage and Ranger of Eos fill specific roles, and I am not sure if it is worth adding another non-white card that does not work well with the other cards.
Sales Thread!
I still think bob can get a place there, it would be the only black card, and he will draw us more white ones unless you get the other 3 dark confidants, we don't mind the lifeloss in most situations, he isn't synergistic for his 2 CMC but he's also a prime target for removal.
Basically pros/cons would be:
pros:
-Draws us more, which is kinda a problem of the deck when it goes into topdeck mode
-Prime target for removal means that people have to choose to remove one of our attacking threats like the ascendant OR kill bob to stop our draws.This is quite a big one since every removal that isn't going to our threats to me is a huge plus.
Cons:
-We pay the draws with life which in SOME cases will bring us below 30, but in my tests(around 10-15 games but had also a red splash) it's really rare if we play it right.When it happens it's half bad but we have ways to deal with
-He's non-white so can't be pithced on martyr, but he really pays himself off by giving us +1 draw per turn which is probably going to be a white card(we don't run that many lands)
I can't think of more, but I'd still try him, the real question is what we could cut to have him.
As for windbrisk replacement... flagstones of trokair? Emeria, the sky ruin? More basics? Can't think of something really impactful besides emeria which is, in my opinion, a nice 1 or 2x since if it comes online, it's a prime target for removal and if they can't, we will get a recursion engine online pretty easily.
Flagstones can be used to tap, play another, fetch 2 plains, get 3 mana, do something, but meh...
Legacy:RUG Temur Delver
Modern: ??? undecided.
I think Windbrisk Heights is fine in the deck, it's not a problem on the mana-base in BW tokens. In that deck it's one of the only sources of CA, and it's almost a freebie. I could see not playing 4 (having them always etb tapped is a little bit of a pain), but 2 or 3 should still be reasonable. Same with Vault of the Archangel, it's probably fine as a 1-of, but 2 might not be necessary. I'm sort of surprised there aren't more copies of Godless Shrine.
I'm guessing Dark Confidant is missing since he isn't white, but it could be worth trying. Might just be that CML didn't have access to them.
I might try Spectral Procession over Lingering Souls? 1 mana/dude seems like a better deal than 1.25 mana/dude, even if souls gets you 4 bodies in the end.
Having Squadron Hawk around makes me wonder if there's room for a couple Sword of War and Peace and/or Steelshaper's Gift. WaP seems pretty well positioned in the meta at the moment.
Based on my experience with tokens, I do wonder if making some room in the board for a couple edict effects might be worth it. It's a nice way of trying to deal with Geist of Saint Traft and Infect/Auras.
Does Auriok Champion have a place in here, or is it mostly redundant with Martyr of Sands around?
Auriok Champion is good sb tech against RDW and variants, but you'll face a lot more Kiki-Pod and/or Splinter Twin, and Suture Priest makes them cry (not so much with KJ and Resto Angel).
Edit- Dark Confidant flipping a Spectral Procession T3 with no soul ladies out would suuuuuck in a lot of matchups.
:symb::symr::symg: Living End
Delver
RDW
I don't think so, but not impossible. Would be a case of Small World if so
:symb::symr::symg: Living End
Delver
RDW
I guess that a 2 of windbrisk is definitely better as a choice if you want to run it.I have tried a few games with 2 and a few games with 4(10 games with each iteration) and while not statistically accurate, since it's kinda hard if not impossible to get real statistical data, having 4 feels a lot clunkier than needed.
Spectral is a nice card BUT, the WWW cost in a splashed deck is a huge pain in some cases, I do like it ten times more than lingering, but the flexible mana cost is the deal of the card.I can see spec procession working better in a monoW but maybe if you could remove it with windbrisk a few times it would prove to be stronger....
The issue of auriok champion is that you can't tutor him with eos/recur him with emeria or proclamation, since she has a 2 cmc.The effect is definitely strong if you have issues with red decks mostly, I've found that people LOVE to bolt our creatures as soon as they enter, but they usually don't target the martyr(you can sac in response) and they don't really care about our 1/1 creatures unless it's an unpowered ascendant...
I feel it is a bit redundant and well...it goes more into a soul sisters oriented deck, where it could replace a couple sisters for more black/red hate in cases you'd need it(which I don't know how often is needed)
By the way I have only experience with the mono W but usually geist is a easy thing to deal with, he's a 2/2 body that hits for 6 due to the token, but most players will not attack once we have 2-3 creatures in play since we either don't care about blocking him or his 6 damage isn't even nearly enough to threaten us.In this build the zealous persecution makes him a 1/1 which dies by anything(and at the same time our blocker gets +1/+1) so it should be fine...
Also I was thinking that maybe we have too many lands, if we change a couple windbrisk with NON-etb cards, 24 mana sources feels hardcore, our top 1 weakness is to go into topdeck mode I feel, since we usually don't draw that well, and we go into flood quite easily(atleast I do...but maybe it's a shuffler issue?) think we could run 22-23 and get 1-2 slots for more power...What you guys think?
Legacy:RUG Temur Delver
Modern: ??? undecided.
In any case, since you aren't running anthems in this deck, which would make Procession a bit lower impact, I could see where the additional body from Lingering Souls might make it a bit better.
Another thing to note.
_Bantitinha_ (or however it's spelled) placed 18th I believe with the deck running kami of false hope and sun Titan md. I don't believe he ran orzhov charm and I haven't looked to see if results from yesterday's ptq are up yet.
I agree with running a full 4 heights. You don't need a t1 play and they give you card advantage. They're sometimes a good combat trick and other times a way to stay ahead on board. I wouldn't run less than 3, but preferably 4.
Why would you run proc over L. souls...? there's not enough room to play both and you should always pick L. souls over proc if you have the colors to do it.
Bob seems like an obvious choice, the CA it provides at such a low life payment is too good to pass up. a resolved Bob will give you the gas to push into mid-late game, and since the deck already has a very favorable matchup against aggro, Bob just adds insult to injury.
Yes he was playing orzhov charm. He played against Andrew Cuneo in a pretty sweet match:
http://www.twitch.tv/andrewcuneo/b/378173064?t=316m
Guess I'm still stuck in my mono-white lifegain aggro ways. If added to the list in the OP, it'd be a little nerve-racking running so many 4cmc cards, but that small risk aside, it's definitely at home.
:symb::symr::symg: Living End
Delver
RDW
As this deck does not rely solely on attacking with creatures and tokens and utilizes other ways to win, I definitely would choose Lingering Souls for this particular deck.
Sales Thread!
I am going to build it soon and test it out, but my meta is more casual than yours may be.
I am trying to decide whether I like the normal Soul Sisters build, BW Tokens, or this one more.
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2x Martyr of Sands
4x Serra Ascendant
4x Soul's Attendant
4x Soul Warden
4x Ajani's Pridemate
4x Squadron Hawk
4x Dark Confidant
4x Path to Exile
2x Blind Obedience
3x Orzhov Charm
4x Lingering Souls
//Lands (21)
3x Ghost Quarter
4x Godless Shrine
4x Isolated Chapel
4x Marsh Flats
5x Plains
1x Swamp
No sideboard designed yet. I've been able to get Serra Ascendant active surprisingly often despite Dark Confidant and the life-hungry mana base, mainly because Confidant gives me more creatures for the Sisters to begin with. But it seems like this build could be more optimal. Not sure how.
a few quick clarifications:
this is not an aggro deck (except vs combo)
cipt lands are therefore minimally awkward
the deck is inconsistent, but not for modern. in particular in this die-roll format martyr is decent enough on the draw (compare with living end, which goes from sweet on the play to terrible on the draw)
playing less than 4 windbrisk is crazy, with ranger / windbrisk / hawk / mistveil / spectral we have one of the strongest CA engines in the format, certainly far stronger than any fair blue deck; it's outclassed by bob for sure but it's also more resilient
souls is 1000x better than procession all the time in every way, just play with it and you'll see
vault is great and i think 2's the right number, give it a try too
guildmage is there to race combo or grind out control (i.e. when you want games to go very short or very long), it's an absolute necessity in paper magic where you need to kill them at some point but on modo you can cut it and just be an f6 hero (if you're not an f6 hero, you gotta become one or play a different deck!)
i coulda bobbed (i've bobbed in martyr before!) but i didn't want to make the deck even worse against 1-toughness sweepers and i thought it would worsen the aggro matchups unacceptably. bob + wrath also isn't the greatest (sculler + wrath isn't either). i'm trying phyrexian arenas in the board, though, as the rare long games you lose, you lose because you flood.
this deck is pretty tough to play. especially live, when you have to look at the clock and tap your mana correctly and keep track of a million things that aren't right in front of you like they are on modo. my playgroup is composed mainly of people whose playskill exceeds mine and NONE of them have been able to play this deck well. i often make inaccurate plays, and i've been playing both martyr and modern since the format's inception.
my main tip is to hold cards in hand vs. the fair decks. imagine what kind of advantage you can get with a spell in hand before casting it. always play around all counterspells when you could resolve a hawk. souls gives us a lot of leeway to play into counters. heights and souls can force them to tap out, at which point we can resolve a ranger and just win the game. we have a terrific long game.
at the ptq's i played on consecutive weekends (2-2 drop / 6-1-1 for 9th in paper, then 8-1 3rd / 4-2 drop on modo) i felt like i had the strongest deck in the room. i was fortunate to face good matchups all day in the modo tourney, and of course i ran good to get 3rd but i was unfortunate not to take it home once i got to that point. you still mull to five sometimes ...
cards that are bad for us: sowap, solas, surgical
tested cards that are confirmed bad: any one-drop (WW, Student, Figure); ghostly prison; soul warden; spectral procession; honor of the pure; sorin; necrotic sliver
possible cards: bob, solas, sowap, phyrexian arena, disenchant, hide//seek, jotun grunt, batwing brume
any questions are very welcome! i dislike playing mtg unless i make my own decks, and this is my finest deck to date, but in order to brew i netdeck way more than the average fnm helot.
Also, how did Sun Titan off the board work out for you? Which matchups did it come in against?
I must say I had a super fun time, but I think I'm either too bad for the deck or that I've had some questions in mind which would explain a few things for me:
I'll recap my tourny at best of my memory
game 1 UWR lost 2-1
Game one was my first real UWR game, never had a chance to try it out, I kept a decent hand which then went into killing me since it wasn't that decent...can't remember details but I lost 1, won second, almost won third but we ended at turns and well...when turns almost ended he killed me with a geist...but only barely, I did misplay a couple since I was unsure on how to play against UWR yet.
Seconda game uwr won 1-0
Again another super slow control, I won easily game one, albeit we dragged a bit since he tried to find answers and he didn't knew my deck had better counter-answers(wrath into proclamation into 80 life into gg), game 2 I was dominating but got stalled and ended at turns, still a win for me.I did love the 15 damage overkill of vizkopa in one game =P
Game 3 gruul aggro 2-0 for me
First game went superscary since he got a double rancored 4/4 with trample, I managed to find answers and win by a couple good topdecks.Game 2 he sided but didn't get that many answers and a turn 2 blind obedience into a wrath when he kinda forgot I had one in hand won me the game.Was the easiest
Game 4 mono U tron...0-2 for me
I knew I was going to get paired with my friend that got me back into magic since we always joked about it.We had to play it since we were both barely entering top 8, and well...I was at 6 points he was at 4, we could've tried some shenanigans but well didn't go as planned.Now tron I feel is THE matchup in my meta I just can't win in any way....
game 1 mindslave combo comes online, he draws a wrath from my topdeck, clears the board and in any case I was locked just the salt in the wound and even if I had a good presence, I just couldn't do anything to stop him since he had a godly hand anyway.Game 2 I sided some hate and aggressively mulliganed for it, got a turn 2 stony silence into play, and the game dragged, I couldn't break 30 life since I didn't draw martyrs, and when I had ways he had a recurring counterspell(something with buyback3) and with urza online...well.He did kill me with a flying 5/5 and wurmcoil engine and since I have to wake up early, I didn't go on and see how the tourney kept going...
Now if you are still reading this: it might be my meta, or I might just be bad but...Here atleast 2-3 players mainboard or sideboard blood moons, I couldn't have done much with all the non basic lands if I was paired with them game 1, and windbrisk...I understand the point but I never had 3 creatures on board to activate it and when I had I was either winning, or was just desperate...Thing is people here are fairly aggressive and tend to kill souls tokens and hawks and since they are 1/1 they easily go down to electrolyze, bolts and such(even thundermaw hellkite which is quite easy to see) so I can't really use them, most of the times they were dead draws.
Mistveils also where just never used since I was always too constrained with mana to activate them, or people just had enough ways to remove my cards, when they didn't I just didn't have anything worth reshuffling at 2 mana cost(tap to activate and tap the mistveil), they also came in tapped which in a couple of the pre-tourney tests just weren't bringing enough worth.I can see the lands potential but in my meta, they're almost surely dead draws.
I understand your point on the lands but I have found them huge issues in my games...I think I'm going to personally try and change the deck for my meta here and bring a couple more basics to avoid the blood moon(most games I didn't draw a fetch/basic so I would've lost there if they had), and probably I'm considering some hate against tron, I'm not sure we can support tectonic edge or quarter though...manabase felt either too short, or just flooding(second uwr game of the swiss I had 12 lands in play starting with a 1 land hand...ok we went to time and turns but damn..)
I'm also unsure on bob, I think it would've changed the dynamics, in control games they couldn't kill my creatures AND kill me, so it would've been a fantastic bait, and if he enters I'm just getting free draws.Against other decks excluding maybe the gruul I think he's ok and could be even sided in some cases.I'm not sure if I'm ok with the mainboard, I guess you know better and won't change it, but surely I have big issues with the mana base...it's just not working here <.<
edit: forgot,I'm also considering emeria as a 1x or 2x, seems nice in longer games, also...surgical extraction on a martyr was the play of the night in the first 2-1 swiss round, definitely was GG there, i kept playing but lost there...ideas how to not fold to that in game 2 or 3? Feels an almost auto-win...
Legacy:RUG Temur Delver
Modern: ??? undecided.