Honestly Goblin Lackey is legal! Hey, people always say the red deck won!
With Lackey legal im sure everyone knows he usually equals brokeness in the turns to come. How this for a somewhat broad list to start from...
That is a appoxamite base for a Gobbo deck. The next part is the supporting spells. There are so many choices i know ill miss something. You can add black for Disruption(therapy and duress) and reanimation (death and bidding). or you can go for a more speed mana acceleration approach with cards like chrome mox and/or aether vial and some random stuff like seething song. i only know a few playable goblin from the sets before the mother of goblin sets (onslaught) came out. What other goblins could make an appearance Cadet?
Black splash > White splash, but he's an idiot because he's not playing Living Death.
And I don't know why you'd play Siege-Gang over Goon.
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Quote from The Missing Link »
ever looked on http://www.wizards.com it gives u lots of info on magic amd cards so if u havnt looked hav a look and it will tell u allmost anything about magic the gathering
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
Except that Siege-Gang really doesn't get you out of frog-lock, because the turn after you play it, Squee will recur, they'll Survival for an FTK, and blow Siege-Gang up. That is why Living Death is useful.
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ever looked on http://www.wizards.com it gives u lots of info on magic amd cards so if u havnt looked hav a look and it will tell u allmost anything about magic the gathering
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
Besides: SGC > Goon. Thats a rule. It supports the deck better and is never a dead card on the field. The black splash isnt bad but could easily be helped via a beter SB and Burning Wishes in the main. They are legal in this format...
Edit: Just took a second look at that list. Can you have the builder maybe comment on the lack of the good removal goblins in favor of burn? aka Incinerator? SHARPSHOOTER??? thats what got me the most, no SS? thats crazy.
Currently Running Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
well it is in the decks to beat thread and yet there is no thread about it in the competitive forum. I was wondering what your decklists look like and i will post mine later. What i need is a sideboard. Maybe you guys could help me with that.
thanks a lot.
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Quote from Kijin »
It's funny because innocent people that were trying to pay the bills for their families were brutally murdered.
you will most likely have some questions but please don't flame me this is my first attempt at the 1.5 goblins.
considering I had to take you off ignore to see this I am going to give some advice
-4 sparksmith...they just stink in 1.5
-4 goblin cohort... you would be better off playing jackal pup or goblin cadets
-3 goblin king...do I even have to say it?
-3 umezawa's jitte
+2 seige gang commander... its this or goblin goon
+4 goblin piledriver...this is a must
+4 chain lightning...who doesnt like more burn?
+4 puppy or cadets
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Asking people to remove quotes in their signatures is tyranny! If I can't say something just because someone's feelings are hurt then no one would ever be able to say anything! Political correctness is stupid.
i would think that deck wants more burn spells or to be made into Food Chain Goblins or to add black for duress or cabal therepy.
The Akki Rockspeaker seems to be the weak link.
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Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
10 mountain
4 wooded foothills
4 bloodstained mire
2 badlands
SB:
4 REB
4 Duress
3 Patriarchs Bidding
4 smother
I am currently going to start testing a deck like this. I think goblins has a good chance in the legacy world and would like to try some serious legacy goblin playing.
i doubt you'll need that many matrons or incinerators. you might wanna consider tossing in a pyromancer perhaps. i also advice you maindeck a couple of living deaths and sb a couple of pbs.
He's a goblin. Goblin King is now a goblin. And at 3 mana (or 2 with atleast one Warchief), I am wondering if he deserves a spot in a good Legacy goblin deck. At first glance I say "yes!", but I believe we should be discussing this in detail. And if so, can this be the thing that finally puts Goblins into bonafide deck to beat territory?
This comes from Qwerty's "Decks of Legacy" Primer page. Where do you stick another goblin into a list so tight as to only run 3 warchiefs like this? I am personally of the opinion that, in order to do so, we would have to scrap the list in favor of something closer to the Vial Goblins list like this:
This is also taken from Qwerty's "Decks of Legacy" Primer page. With the converted mana cost of Goblin King at 3, it seems a natural fit. The question in my mind is "Is this good enough to warrant a '4 of' or just 1 or 2 as a toolbox piece?"
Considering how many decks run mountains in the form of Taiga or Volcanic Island and the fact that the +1/+1 bonus stacks, I would say the King will be good enough to be a 4 of. I especially like the fact that it is essentially a foil to Engineered Plague, as that is a popular anti-goblin card in my local meta.
Where to cut: Well, that IS the hard part, isn't it...
1. I would say to cut the Pyromancer. I have been beaten by a Pyromancer on more than a few occasions, but in addition to the King duplicating the effect of the Pyromancer to a limited degree, he is also subtly different in strategy. You probably do not want to drop the King after blockers usually, since the bonus is less and the mountainwalk is useless. Of course, this means that the Piledriver gets further bonus - oh and he will possibly be unblockable. And that, my friends, is huge. It's not quite a wash as far as benefits are concerned, but something to consider.
2. I want to cut atleast 1 Ringleader. Sure they are big time card advantage, but awful when your opening hand is full of them. You can still search for them with Matrons. This may cause more game strategy changes, such as not going for the kill piece so much as the card advantage piece (depending on how many you cut), but is also a consideration.
3. Drop a Sharpshooter. Yes they have game, but not quite as much without Skirk Prospectors or Goblin Grenades. The deck is already down to 2, so dropping to 1 just makes it a toolbox-only card.
Let me insert an anti-flame disclaimer here. I am not a Goblin player these days, and have never tried them with a vial. My experience comes from the other side of the table. After all, I think Goblin Legionnaire is peachy keen with Plateaus. What do I know?
Also, I am wondering if this new designation as goblin will be in effect when the Legacy tournaments occur this season. Will it?
It does seem like it could have some power, especially with Blood Moon, but on the whole I think it's just a little too slow and clogs up the mana space where you want to draw Warchiefs instead. If anything, it's just an answer to Plage Spitter/Engineered Plague/Goblin Sharpshooter. It could be really strong in the RG Survival matchup if they don't have Survival on the board or FTK in hand. I'm going to reserve judgment though, because I could easily be proven wrong.
I know the land section needs work...should I add in some fetchalnds to help thin out the deck?
As for the creatures, I know not many people use 4x Sharpshooter, but I find them to be very helpful in clearing potential blockers out of the way so that my Lackeys and Piledrivers can always deal damage directly to the other player.
Run 2 sharpshooters, 4 is way too many, especially with all of the direct damage you already have. Same thing applies to your grenades. Also get rid of goblin vandal, his time has come and gone. Save any artifact hate you would want for a sb. You may want to consider adding in some fetch lands, and up your land count in the process. It seems pretty easy to run into mana screw, and having the ability to thin out your land count once you feel comfertable with your lands is invaluable. Goblin sligh is a pretty quick versitile deck all round, but in 1.5 Goblin Death is the deck you want to run.
I don't play any version of this deck myself but i find the R/w build to be very successful. White is splashed for disenchant and swords. Disenchant helps against the nevy's disk and survival decks. It can also get rid of worship and CoP: Red, Chill. Swords works to get rid of pro-red creatures as well as creatures too big to burn (sundering titan, darksteel colossus). This also opens up the sideboard for serenity against enchantress.
Goblins need some splash to win consistently and white is the most useful. when worship resolves in a ww match against a mono-red goblins player they have no choice but to scoop (ww plays pro-red creatures). what do you do against cop: red? what about engineered plague naming goblins? Most builds of any survival decks have ways to take care of goblins too. There are alot of artifacts and enchantments that hose mono-red goblins. I even saw a sligh deck that ran aether flash for them. White would greatly increase its ability to not get hosed. thats all i'm saying.
Duress/Therapy is a good idea but merely a mediocre solution to hosers unless you do it every turn. Its more likely that you will draw/keep a disenchant in hand to respond to an enchantment than it is that you will duress and therapy away all the bad enchantments. they could easily top deck worship, humility or aether flash then its almost an auto-loss for your deck especially if they have some pro-red creature. your deck also falls over to solitary confinement and pernicious deeds. There are a lot of anti-red and anti-tribal cards that decks pack just for such an occasion. White has artifact, enchantment, land, and creature removal... no other color can boast that. Although I've never seen this and not sure if its a good idea but you could armegeddon after you have a good hold on the game to slow the opponent to defend. I've seen white weenie run over goblins with one pro-red creature and empyrial armor/umezawa's jitte/sword of fire and ice. You can't stop your opponent from top decking and all your discard is sorcery-speed so disenchant is a much better response to enchantments in my opinion.
Late game Gempalm Incinerator might be able to kill a sundering titan but you will be waiting quite a while to deal 13 damage to a krosan cloudscraper. (THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE). I know its not played in any decks now. I'm just saying for one mana swords to plowshares gets rid of it permanently.
Aether vial is best suited for mono red goblin builds. As for Living Death vs Bidding, Living death takes the cake. I've seen this argument on enough forums. While bidding is favorable against affinity, it scoops to tribal decks and usually nets your opponent a couple creatures regardless. So far every time living death has sucessfully resolved I've won, it has the power to turn a seemingly hopeless game upside down.
You folks have it all wrong. You need the black splash for the all powerful Marsh Goblins. You're going to need them to march past the blocking creatures in all those creature-heavy black builds running rampant t Legacy. OK, maybe not.
Goblins in no way requires a splash to be competitive. Anarchy is a far more powerful "out" against a Silver Knight+Worship/Pariah lock than Disenchant or Swords to Plowshares. It's like a Red Wrath against anyone playing WW or Angel Stompy.
How do you deal with engineered plague, aether flash, and pernicious deed? if your opponent drops a creature out of burn range (6+ toughness), how do you deal with that?
Quote from Finn »
You folks have it all wrong. You need the black splash for the all powerful Marsh Goblins. You're going to need them to march past the blocking creatures in all those creature-heavy black builds running rampant t Legacy. OK, maybe not.
Why the waste of time and space? I realize it was a joke but it was merely wasteful spam.
With Lackey legal im sure everyone knows he usually equals brokeness in the turns to come. How this for a somewhat broad list to start from...
4x Lackey
4x Warchief
4x Ringleader
4x Fanatic
4x Prospector
4x Flunky
3x Matron
3x Siege-Gang
4x Piledriver
That is a appoxamite base for a Gobbo deck. The next part is the supporting spells. There are so many choices i know ill miss something. You can add black for Disruption(therapy and duress) and reanimation (death and bidding). or you can go for a more speed mana acceleration approach with cards like chrome mox and/or aether vial and some random stuff like seething song. i only know a few playable goblin from the sets before the mother of goblin sets (onslaught) came out. What other goblins could make an appearance Cadet?
Also Remember there are Burnless Builds of Goblins and Goblins with burn.
And I don't know why you'd play Siege-Gang over Goon.
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
Edit: Just took a second look at that list. Can you have the builder maybe comment on the lack of the good removal goblins in favor of burn? aka Incinerator? SHARPSHOOTER??? thats what got me the most, no SS? thats crazy.
Currently Running
Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves
Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave
Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
thanks a lot.
my build is mono red but that might change.
4x goblin warchief
4x goblin grenade
4x incinerate
3x goblin king
4x lotus petal
4x sparksmith
4x mogg fanatic
2x siege-gang commander
4x lightning bolt
3x umezawa's jitte
4x goblin cohort
16x mountain
you will most likely have some questions but please don't flame me this is my first attempt at the 1.5 goblins.
considering I had to take you off ignore to see this I am going to give some advice
-4 sparksmith...they just stink in 1.5
-4 goblin cohort... you would be better off playing jackal pup or goblin cadets
-3 goblin king...do I even have to say it?
-3 umezawa's jitte
+2 seige gang commander... its this or goblin goon
+4 goblin piledriver...this is a must
+4 chain lightning...who doesnt like more burn?
+4 puppy or cadets
4 goblin piledriver
4 goblin warchief
3 goblin matron
3 goblin incerator
4 goblin ringleader
4 goblin grenade
4 aether vial
1 siege-gang commander
1 goblin sharpshooter
1 kiki
1 goblin goon
4 lightning bolt
4 incenerate
lands and sideboard to be determined
merged-Qwerty
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=532795
The Akki Rockspeaker seems to be the weak link.
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
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4 Cabal Therapy
1 Kiki-Jiki
1 Goblin SharpShooter
4 Gempalm incinerator
4 mogg fanatic
4 Goblin Matron
2 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Skirk Prospector
2 Siege gang commander
10 mountain
4 wooded foothills
4 bloodstained mire
2 badlands
SB:
4 REB
4 Duress
3 Patriarchs Bidding
4 smother
I am currently going to start testing a deck like this. I think goblins has a good chance in the legacy world and would like to try some serious legacy goblin playing.
He's a goblin. Goblin King is now a goblin. And at 3 mana (or 2 with atleast one Warchief), I am wondering if he deserves a spot in a good Legacy goblin deck. At first glance I say "yes!", but I believe we should be discussing this in detail. And if so, can this be the thing that finally puts Goblins into bonafide deck to beat territory?
Let me post this as reference
Creatures (23)
3 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Goblin Vandal
3 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Skirk Prospector
4 Goblin Lackey
Cranial Damage (19)
4 Incinerate
3 Fireblast
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt Mana (18)
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Plateau
11 Mountain
This comes from Qwerty's "Decks of Legacy" Primer page. Where do you stick another goblin into a list so tight as to only run 3 warchiefs like this? I am personally of the opinion that, in order to do so, we would have to scrap the list in favor of something closer to the Vial Goblins list like this:
Creatures (35)
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Mogg Fanatic
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Goblin Vandal
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Warchief
2 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Pyromancer
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker stuff (4)
4 Aether Vial
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Badlands
7 Mountain
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Smother / Terminate
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Fork
This is also taken from Qwerty's "Decks of Legacy" Primer page. With the converted mana cost of Goblin King at 3, it seems a natural fit. The question in my mind is "Is this good enough to warrant a '4 of' or just 1 or 2 as a toolbox piece?"
Considering how many decks run mountains in the form of Taiga or Volcanic Island and the fact that the +1/+1 bonus stacks, I would say the King will be good enough to be a 4 of. I especially like the fact that it is essentially a foil to Engineered Plague, as that is a popular anti-goblin card in my local meta.
Where to cut: Well, that IS the hard part, isn't it...
1. I would say to cut the Pyromancer. I have been beaten by a Pyromancer on more than a few occasions, but in addition to the King duplicating the effect of the Pyromancer to a limited degree, he is also subtly different in strategy. You probably do not want to drop the King after blockers usually, since the bonus is less and the mountainwalk is useless. Of course, this means that the Piledriver gets further bonus - oh and he will possibly be unblockable. And that, my friends, is huge. It's not quite a wash as far as benefits are concerned, but something to consider.
2. I want to cut atleast 1 Ringleader. Sure they are big time card advantage, but awful when your opening hand is full of them. You can still search for them with Matrons. This may cause more game strategy changes, such as not going for the kill piece so much as the card advantage piece (depending on how many you cut), but is also a consideration.
3. Drop a Sharpshooter. Yes they have game, but not quite as much without Skirk Prospectors or Goblin Grenades. The deck is already down to 2, so dropping to 1 just makes it a toolbox-only card.
Let me insert an anti-flame disclaimer here. I am not a Goblin player these days, and have never tried them with a vial. My experience comes from the other side of the table. After all, I think Goblin Legionnaire is peachy keen with Plateaus. What do I know?
Also, I am wondering if this new designation as goblin will be in effect when the Legacy tournaments occur this season. Will it?
-Finn
Threads merged-Qwerty
Land
18x Mountain
Artifact
4x AEther Vial
Spells
2x Incinerate
2x Fireblast
4x Chain Lightning
4x Goblin Grenade
4x Lightning Bolt
Creatures
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Warchief
4x Goblin Sharpshooter
4x Mogg Fanatic
2x Goblin Vandal
I know the land section needs work...should I add in some fetchalnds to help thin out the deck?
As for the creatures, I know not many people use 4x Sharpshooter, but I find them to be very helpful in clearing potential blockers out of the way so that my Lackeys and Piledrivers can always deal damage directly to the other player.
thanks
Legacy: Stax / Black Tendrils / Pox / FEB
I wrote this post a long time ago. It was the dopest post I ever wrote... in 94.
Legacy: Stax / Black Tendrils / Pox / FEB
I wrote this post a long time ago. It was the dopest post I ever wrote... in 94.
//NAME: Goblin Death
2 Swamp
10 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Badlands
1 Goblin Pyromancer
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Clickslither
1 Sparksmith
2 Mogg Maniac
2 Living Death
2 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Goblin Matron
2 Skirk Prospector
2 Goblin Sledder
2 Goblin Goon
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Mogg Fanatic
SB: 1 Goblin King
SB: 2 Patriarch's Bidding
SB: 2 Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 2 Perish
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 4 Pithing Needle
I think the sb could be a bit better. I would love to run Dralnu's crusade if only it was any good.
1. Is the general concensus around here that Living Death is better than Patriarch's Bidding in this deck?
2. The Sparksmith should go, I think. The Clickslither I am uncertain about with Living Death, but Sparksmith must go. Ignore the fact that Goblin Sharpshooter is just better, he is also cheaper- yes cheaper. Wait a moment. Why isn't Aether Vial in your build? Are you nuts? That card is insane in Goblins!
-Finn
Late game Gempalm Incinerator might be able to kill a sundering titan but you will be waiting quite a while to deal 13 damage to a krosan cloudscraper. (THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE). I know its not played in any decks now. I'm just saying for one mana swords to plowshares gets rid of it permanently.
Legacy: Stax / Black Tendrils / Pox / FEB
I wrote this post a long time ago. It was the dopest post I ever wrote... in 94.
How do you deal with engineered plague, aether flash, and pernicious deed? if your opponent drops a creature out of burn range (6+ toughness), how do you deal with that?
Why the waste of time and space? I realize it was a joke but it was merely wasteful spam.
Legacy: Stax / Black Tendrils / Pox / FEB
I wrote this post a long time ago. It was the dopest post I ever wrote... in 94.