Right now in standard, mana fixing is so strong there are plenty of decks that don't use basics (or have 2-3 of them at max). This, plus cards like restoration angel and thragtusk, have resulted in A LOT of midrange decks. Those decks DO NOT work when casting thragtusk only nets you one life because you had to pay for it with mostly non-basics.
This will, by its mere existence, push decks towards more basics and completely shift mana bases and it will see all kinds of standard play
Right now in standard, mana fixing is so strong there are plenty of decks that don't use basics (or have 2-3 of them at max). This, plus cards like restoration angel and thragtusk, have resulted in A LOT of midrange decks. Those decks DO NOT work when casting thragtusk only nets you one life because you had to pay for it with mostly non-basics.
This will, by its mere existence, push decks towards more basics and completely shift mana bases and it will see all kinds of standard play
Or everyone just packs a bunch of enchantment removal into their side board.
It will be hard to gauge how much play this card actually sees. It will depend a lot on whether or not Mono Red (or Boros/Gruul) is played enough for people to actually be concerned about the card.
It's hard to make a judgement on this. It's a crossbreed of Manabarbs and Primal Order, but not strictly better or worse than either. Primal Order offers guaranteed damage, but comes in an awkward color (though IMO, the correct one for nonbasic hate). Manabarbs can't be built around as much, but it does leave your opponent with potential outs when they are low on life.
It could see play out of mono-red sideboards, but even there it's a bit expensive. I feel that every deck that truly wants this effect will value their splash more than potentially shooting themselves in the foot with this.
This is great design, let's hope we get some more nonbasic punishing cards. Innistrad gave us all sorts of anti-graveyard tools, why didn't Ravnica give us the same answers to multicolor madness?
I can assure that this card will see Tier 1 play. It seems like a good way for mono-red to assure its victory against slower tri-colored decks, there are times where your creatures aren't enough, and this seems like a consistent damage dealer against heavy decks. Also bi-colored decks using red would use it (I will personally add 2 for my Izzet sideboard. I mean, I'll use it against tri-colored decks with ~18 non-basic lands, I carry 10 but they will be totally punished with this.)
Decks like Jund have no way to deal with this at the moment, and if they use something like Bramblecrush, it will still be punishing. Even for Junk Rites, have to play Angel of Serenity, either from hand or with Unburial Rites, means you're losing a considerable amount of life to get rid of it.
By other hand, a simple Sundering Growth isn't that hurting, but they are barely seen nowadays.
How much I would like this card to be better... Costing 2R would have been solid and not broken, but 4-mana "do nothing" enchantments have it rough.
Still, looking at the PT DGM's results, the two best performing decks were bant and esper control, both abusing Sphinx's Revelation and Aetherling, cards against which Burning Earth is very good.
I just don't see which deck would bother having it in the sideboard. When aggressive red decks play 4-mana cards, they better be good ones that apply strong pressure, not an enchantment that doesn't increase board presence and can be played around. And outside of monored, I don't see which decks would be willing to go through the drawback of being pinged for their nonbasic lands too.
How much I would like this card to be better... Costing 2R would have been solid and not broken, but 4-mana "do nothing" enchantments have it rough.
Still, looking at the PT DGM's results, the two best performing decks were bant and esper control, both abusing Sphinx's Revelation and Aetherling, cards against which Burning Earth is very good.
I just don't see which deck would bother having it in the sideboard. When aggressive red decks play 4-mana cards, they better be good ones that apply strong pressure, not an enchantment that doesn't increase board presence and can be played around. And outside of monored, I don't see which decks would be willing to go through the drawback of being pinged for their nonbasic lands too.
But the card changes the life states when you play it. If your opponent isn't countering it, then he/she will have to pay some life to get rid of it (in case he/she has an answer). Usually, RDW fails when the opponent is starting up to make field presence and gaining life, either with Thragtusk, Sphinx's Revelation, or so. This card converts the tusk a 5/3 blocker that does something when leaving, but the life gain is not there anymore (almost all the time), and playing Revelation makes them lose ~2-3 life.
This gives aggro decks the chance to finish them off with the resources they have left, or can get. They usually fail when wipe board comes, but this card still prevails. They are losing life on the wipeboard, and then when they, either make board presence, or get rid of the enchantment. I'm sure it places them on the dangerous burn area, where you only need a pair of Searing Spear to win, in a meh scenario.
YES! MY PRICE OF PROGRESS DREAM CAME TRUE!!!!!!!
it's similar, but it makes decks with lots of fixing butthurt. thank you WOtC for granting me this wish.
Manabarbs was an option against control decks for a very long time and did pretty much squat.
Why would one that doesn't necessarily hit them on every land possibly matter?
Because those control decks sat back with enchantments and planeswalkers that could take over the game. Our current control decks are pretty hosed if they can't tap out to gain 7 and draw 7.
How much I would like this card to be better... Costing 2R would have been solid and not broken, but 4-mana "do nothing" enchantments have it rough.
Maybe not technically broken, but way too powerful at 3 mana, especially in Modern where typical manabases put you too close to burn range already. I like the idea of having this effect at 3 mana, just don't think it would be balanced enough.
Manabarbs was an option against control decks for a very long time and did pretty much squat.
Why would one that doesn't necessarily hit them on every land possibly matter?
Really? Every time I sideboarded Manabarbs in against control, I won. Even when people could play Wurmcoil Engine, they couldn't tap 6 to take 6, because then they'd be in burn range. It usually locks them out of the game.
Worse than Manabarbs or decent LD. Still should be played in a few mono-red standard sideboards because there is no Manabarbs.. The fact that it's a potentially one-sided effect doesn't really matter but the fact your opponent can play around it after it resolves makes it a real downgrade from good ol' 'barbs. You're not going to sideboard this in against any deck that can race you so not losing life for playing straight Mountains means very little. Consider me disappointed.
This is a very interesting card. I hope it goes places, but that's dependent on red doing good work, since it would be hard to play it in multicolored decks..
It's definitely a great piece of non-basic land hate and should see a decent amount of sideboard play in mono red decks (a one sided Mana Barbs is pretty painful to deal with). I'm not sure if it'll be enough to push those mono red decks into competitive playability but with most of the common decks at the moment being tri coloured and often having barely any basic lands it just might stand a chance as some sort of anti-meta solution.
I like it and definitely expect to see it in every aggro deck in standard. Heck, in mono-red I would even maindeck it. A few thoughts:
- My first impression was that I wished it cost 3 cmc. But...at 4 cmc it does have the distinct upside of being immune to Abrupt Decay. I think that is actually a very meaningful upside that will matter in Standard going forward. This also means that it brings some hidden value to the table for aggro, as it forces control to diversify its removal suite to account for this. Instead of stacking the cheapest creature removal they are going to have to pack answers for this too, probably looking at stuff like Detention Sphere in UW control, or Acidic Slime in Jund. Either way if you are playing a turn 4 aggro deck you love the control deck having to play the slower removal, making it that much tougher for them to handle your fast starts.
- There just isn't much downside to this against control: Best case for them is that they spend life and a card/turn to kill it...which is fine for the aggro deck. Worst case for them is that they don't have an answer in hand and most likely lose.
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Burning Earth - 3R
Rare
Enchantment
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land for mana, Burning Earth deals 1 damage to that player.
I'd say this is a very decent way to address non-basic hate without going into LD
Also could prove to be very relevant in the late game: "will you pay the life to use the mana? You'll be within burn range if you do!"
Love it
EDIT: realized I might have jumped the gun. This thread might be more appropriate in baseless spec for the time being I guess
If you're playing mono-red, in most scenarios this is a manabarbs that only effects your opponent!
This will, by its mere existence, push decks towards more basics and completely shift mana bases and it will see all kinds of standard play
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
Or everyone just packs a bunch of enchantment removal into their side board.
LET THE WORLD BURN. SO CHEAP. SO EASY TO CAST. I love it, so much.
Oh, this will be fun in an EDH game, with lots of punishing cards. Who cares about constructed burn if this can shut down 100 dollar duals?
:symr::symb: I hate your deck(Kaervek the Merciless)
Wait, how do I even hide it as a name title?
Kemba, Kostume
Ka...Oh god that's not a good alliteration.Wait, how do I even hide it as a name title?
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
It could see play out of mono-red sideboards, but even there it's a bit expensive. I feel that every deck that truly wants this effect will value their splash more than potentially shooting themselves in the foot with this.
Cubetutor Link
Decks like Jund have no way to deal with this at the moment, and if they use something like Bramblecrush, it will still be punishing. Even for Junk Rites, have to play Angel of Serenity, either from hand or with Unburial Rites, means you're losing a considerable amount of life to get rid of it.
By other hand, a simple Sundering Growth isn't that hurting, but they are barely seen nowadays.
Weird Idea of the Month (Standard)
RGWNaya Token CommandoWGR
Rate/discuss my decks :D(almost all formats)
Standard
Orzhov Voltron Superheroes
Modern
Infectors
Legacy
UGBack to Square OneGU
EDH
GWURafiq of the Many Wins (1vs1)UWG
Jarad's Turbo Suicidal Squad (Multiplayer)
Pauper
Are you Afraid of Ghosts? You Better Be!
Still, looking at the PT DGM's results, the two best performing decks were bant and esper control, both abusing Sphinx's Revelation and Aetherling, cards against which Burning Earth is very good.
I just don't see which deck would bother having it in the sideboard. When aggressive red decks play 4-mana cards, they better be good ones that apply strong pressure, not an enchantment that doesn't increase board presence and can be played around. And outside of monored, I don't see which decks would be willing to go through the drawback of being pinged for their nonbasic lands too.
But the card changes the life states when you play it. If your opponent isn't countering it, then he/she will have to pay some life to get rid of it (in case he/she has an answer). Usually, RDW fails when the opponent is starting up to make field presence and gaining life, either with Thragtusk, Sphinx's Revelation, or so. This card converts the tusk a 5/3 blocker that does something when leaving, but the life gain is not there anymore (almost all the time), and playing Revelation makes them lose ~2-3 life.
This gives aggro decks the chance to finish them off with the resources they have left, or can get. They usually fail when wipe board comes, but this card still prevails. They are losing life on the wipeboard, and then when they, either make board presence, or get rid of the enchantment. I'm sure it places them on the dangerous burn area, where you only need a pair of Searing Spear to win, in a meh scenario.
Also, gruul midrange using this and Ruric Thar, the Unbowed would be... gg
Weird Idea of the Month (Standard)
RGWNaya Token CommandoWGR
Rate/discuss my decks :D(almost all formats)
Standard
Orzhov Voltron Superheroes
Modern
Infectors
Legacy
UGBack to Square OneGU
EDH
GWURafiq of the Many Wins (1vs1)UWG
Jarad's Turbo Suicidal Squad (Multiplayer)
Pauper
Are you Afraid of Ghosts? You Better Be!
Why would one that doesn't necessarily hit them on every land possibly matter?
[[b]B]DCI Level 2 Judge[/B][/b]it's similar, but it makes decks with lots of fixing butthurt. thank you WOtC for granting me this wish.
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
Because those control decks sat back with enchantments and planeswalkers that could take over the game. Our current control decks are pretty hosed if they can't tap out to gain 7 and draw 7.
Cubetutor Link
Maybe not technically broken, but way too powerful at 3 mana, especially in Modern where typical manabases put you too close to burn range already. I like the idea of having this effect at 3 mana, just don't think it would be balanced enough.
Really? Every time I sideboarded Manabarbs in against control, I won. Even when people could play Wurmcoil Engine, they couldn't tap 6 to take 6, because then they'd be in burn range. It usually locks them out of the game.
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- My first impression was that I wished it cost 3 cmc. But...at 4 cmc it does have the distinct upside of being immune to Abrupt Decay. I think that is actually a very meaningful upside that will matter in Standard going forward. This also means that it brings some hidden value to the table for aggro, as it forces control to diversify its removal suite to account for this. Instead of stacking the cheapest creature removal they are going to have to pack answers for this too, probably looking at stuff like Detention Sphere in UW control, or Acidic Slime in Jund. Either way if you are playing a turn 4 aggro deck you love the control deck having to play the slower removal, making it that much tougher for them to handle your fast starts.
- There just isn't much downside to this against control: Best case for them is that they spend life and a card/turn to kill it...which is fine for the aggro deck. Worst case for them is that they don't have an answer in hand and most likely lose.