Some choices I made:
1. A little heavier on the ramp than most builds.
I think it is very important to have ways to clear out the lands in your deck quickly and efficiently in this deck. That way you have higher chances of hitting your big fat fatties. Simple statistics. That is also why most of my ramp thins out my deck.
2. Slotting out protection
Because then I can just hard cast them. Not to mention usually mayael isn't the biggest target in my playgroup. I have a few combo players in my group.
3. Not many "cheats"
The problem I have with cheats is that they are dead cards if I have no fat in my hand. I will see elvish piper every once in awhile, and when I do, its either "Did you just turn 3 ulamog with lightning greaves and piper?" or "My piper is going to sit here. And wait. Yep." Its inconsistant for me. Piper still looks cool since I have the older one however. So I kept ONE cheat in.
4. No contested cliffs or top
---Contested Cliffs isn't that great. There. I said it. Its simply not worth all that beast stuff. Plus I'm probably going to take out Godsire soon. He is next on the chopping block. Hes also not that great.
---Top looks at your top 3. Mayael looks at your top 5. I don't care about my top 3 cards. I'd rather have a cooler utility than top.
Mycoid Shepherd - This card interacts well with greater good (as stalking vengeance does). Mass life gain is great to put yourself out of range. This is a highly underestimated card. Some people will hesitate to wrath your board when they realize you will get 25+ life out of it.
Hoard-Smelter Dragon - I like this far better than any of the other artifact blowing hellkites (even the new one). Maze of Ith is a thing. I don't like how the other one has to connect in order for its effect to trigger.
Regal Force - This card usually draws me at least 3-6 cards when it hits. Seems pretty straight forward but some people don't run this card.
Zhur-Taa Ancient - A lot of people probably won't like this choice, however its here to unclog fat that gets caught in your hand, which helps a lot. This card is either really great, or it smacks you in the face. Pairing it with Vorinclex or Seedborn Muse makes it worth it. The key to this card is knowing when to let it hit. (Like after a well placed board wipe).
Sun Titan - Gets back veteran explorer, knight of the reliquary, strip mine, even Mayael if you want to risk putting her in the yard. Vigilance is also great in multiplayer.
Knight of the Reliquary - Its my favorite magic card ever printed. Its in all of my GW decks. I have no actual argument other than it can grab my fetches.
Veteran Explorer - I want to be able to thin out my deck for cheap. If this lands turn one, someone else on the field will probably want to kill it for some mana too. This means I can not only play mayael faster, but I now have a better chance of hitting a fatty. And this is only for one mana. Yes it helps everyone else, but not everyone else is hoping that the top 5 of their deck is a specific sort of card every time they trigger their general.
Oblation - Answers most things. I like it better than chaos warp. Probably because one time a guy Chaos Warp'd my Mayael, then I flipped a Worldspine Wurm off of it and killed him with it next turn.
Duplicant is a definite possibility for a utility creature. Veteran Explorer is ok but it helps everyone where Sakura-Tribe Elder just helps you. Ruric Thar, the Unbowed also deserves a spot since you don't really have huge amounts of mid game spells (other than your game winners which it doesn't really matter if you take 6 at that point.).
I don't how how Duplicant would fit in this deck. I have both Veteran Explorer and Sakura-Tribe Elder in the deck. And I actually was thinking of putting Ruric in but I don't have one yet.
I'm curious why you run cards like Akroma's Vengeance and Terminus. Why would you want to wrath away your own board?
Because you need to deal with hordes of creatures? Mayael isn't very good at defending against a million 1/1s. I agree that wraths get a little worse due to the new legend rule (we run a lot of legendary creatures) but some commanders need to be tucked, too. Once we get to a certain point in the game, we don't need Mayael. We can just cast fatties all day.
Private Mod Note
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A mere ten days after the Mending, a young knight of Valeron and a young ranger of Eos made a discovery that would change Alara forever.
Because you need to deal with hordes of creatures? Mayael isn't very good at defending against a million 1/1s. I agree that wraths get a little worse due to the new legend rule (we run a lot of legendary creatures) but some commanders need to be tucked, too. Once we get to a certain point in the game, we don't need Mayael. We can just cast fatties all day.
What about something like Aether Flash to protect against tokens. I would say Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite but she only has 4 power. Would spot removal be better then a wrath? Chaos Warp and Oblation seem better then destroying all your creatures right? Just doing some naya research...
What about something like Aether Flash to protect against tokens. I would say Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite but she only has 4 power. Would spot removal be better then a wrath? Chaos Warp and Oblation seem better then destroying all your creatures right? Just doing some naya research...
Wraths are good. Especially with the new legend rule. Terminus and Akroma's Vengeance help me against decks that are faster and more beatface than mine is (like mono green). It is also there because I can recover from wraths quickly (I usually have some fat in my hand), whereas some decks fall flat on their face when they don't have a board presence. Slivers is a good example of deck that goes "whoops" when you wrath the board early.
Also. New legend rule. Terminus. How else do I deal with multiple Ulamog, the Infinite Gyres on the field? You can't tell me that isn't going to happen. I sort of forsee him getting banned...
The lack of Top is certainly defensible. It's a great card, but its main utility comes from use with the cheat engines -- Lurking Predators gets a much better probability of firing, no need to discard stuff from Oath of Druids (or use it to filter your deck!), and you get (again) much better chance of topdecking stuff for Elvish Piper or Quicksilver Amulet.
How often do you even win with Genesis Wave? It's hard to see Vorinclex even lasting a turn around the board, and you have nothing that can tutor up Mirari's Wake. edit: Nevermind, I missed Zur-Taa ancient. Still, the question remains.
The lack of Top is certainly defensible. It's a great card, but its main utility comes from use with the cheat engines -- Lurking Predators gets a much better probability of firing, no need to discard stuff from Oath of Druids (or use it to filter your deck!), and you get (again) much better chance of topdecking stuff for Elvish Piper or Quicksilver Amulet.
How often do you even win with Genesis Wave? It's hard to see Vorinclex even lasting a turn around the board, and you have nothing that can tutor up Mirari's Wake. edit: Nevermind, I missed Zur-Taa ancient. Still, the question remains.
From my point of view, I can have either cheat engines or I can swap it out for ramp and straight forward utility. At the end of the day me putting lands onto the battlefield is much more reliable than me trying to pull off shenanigans with cheat engines like Lurking Predators and Quicksilver Amulet. Not to mention just plain old mana ramp allows me to ramp up to my other spells like Genesis Wave. Which is why I don't undestand why I need a tutor for Mirari's Wake as you suggested. It is essentially just a 5 drop explosive ramp spell to me that bumps up my dudes a bit. I don't absolutely need it all the time, but its very nice when it comes up. Vorinclex and Zhur-Taa Ancient double my mana as well and they are easily tutorable. Not to mention I can usually set up an EOT Worldly Tutor for one of them and blow the table next turn with tons of mana. Also, Vorinclex stays on the table much longer than you'd think. I usually win with Genesis Wave 90% of the time I see the card. There have been a few times I whiffed when I had to cast it as a last resort for numbers less than 12.
Also: I slotted out Scourge some time ago. He wasn't doing enough for the deck. I think its just my meta he is just awkward in. Plus I never saw him... That card hated me.
Have you considered Scroll Rack? Seems like it would help get what you want on top of your library to the top of your library and some draw in exchange. Your "search library for land, then shuffle" ramp can also reset the top of your library afterward if you need to.
Personally I can't do without Top in Mayael, but that's because I have a zillion ways to shuffle. Even without it, Top is still good. You can peek at the top 3 to see if you have a fatty. If not, you're better off spending your mana on something else that turn.
Even if you don't have a million ways to shuffle, Scroll Rack is insane. I have an entire section in the primer about why you should be playing Rack/Top in this deck.
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A mere ten days after the Mending, a young knight of Valeron and a young ranger of Eos made a discovery that would change Alara forever.
I realize you are going to do what you want, and I always preface my suggestions saying I am approaching the deck from a general standpoint. I cannot account for pet cards and your meta, so you will get my thoughts based on if I were to play your deck in my meta.
Zhur-Taa Ancient is terrible. I realize you try and rationalize how he can be good, but 24 out of 25 times you hit this guy, he is going to help your opponents more than he will you. In multiplayer without top or rack- your chances of him not benefiting an opponent's mana base before he is able to fully benefit yours is low. You can add a better mana doubler like mana reflection by dropping stuff like veteran explorer (helps opponents needlessly) and adding another, better, fat body... like: Akroma (white), Godsire (no idea why you dropped him over stuff like this guy or Craterhoof), Woodfall Primus (more removal on big bodies the better), Baneslayer (meta call but flying, lifelink plus minor protection against popular creature types is worth a look) etc.
You can't drop him as a wincon, he's just a wincon enabler, which means when you drop him you also have to have a card to blow his load on that turn. Too narrow.
Mycoid Shepherd is just not good enough. No one is going to hesitate to wrath your board with a Sigarda, Kozilek and Balefire in play etc., regardless of what you gain in life. If you are going to play cards that gain you life, why not play ones that gain you life by doing what this deck is supposed to do? (attacking). I'd slot it out for Windbrisk Raptor or True Conviction. That way when Avacyn, Speakbreaker or Ulamog is out, you don't have a 5/3 durdle being useless or hoping you have Greater Good out. True Conviction can double as a win con and way to gain life far more easily than Shepherd, the turn you drop it. Windbrisk compliments your strategy, which should be ultimately swinging with giant evasive/impactful bodies.
You said you play vs combo, so why do you think they would care if you gained 30+ life once and then all your threats to their gameplan/clock are now gone?
Too much spell based removal/ramp. Warstorm Surge/Where the ancients tread are made for a deck like this, they give you ability to get even more value from cheating in your fatties, they can replace and be far more effective than a single StP or Path. Terrastadon becomes a 4 for 1, Woodfall (if he was there) would become a repeatable 2 for 1 etc.
You claimed you wanted many ramp spells to clean out your mana quicker, but you do realize that you are simply filling that efficiency space with more spells and less bodies, right? I'd drop at least half those single use ramp spells and put in more utility or at least more artifact based ramp like s signet, darksteel ingot or something of the like.
I realize KotR is your pet card, but it convinces you to play cards like Crucible, which are bulky and hard to effectively get online in most situations. But it's your choice and you know your opponents more than I do.
Regal Force almost never hits a good amount of draw and you don't even play green mana dorks to bolster him. Less than half your guys are green in this deck.
That's all I got for this work break. I'd love to hear your thoughts, though it seems like your opinion is going to really boil down to 'well it works for me in my playgroup(s)'-type rationalizations.
Good luck and glad to see another Mayael player in the fold!
Alright some answers:
Okay so I forgot Scroll Rack existed. I definitely need to grab me one of those guys and find something to take out. I've been playing this deck since... well it was my first EDH deck so I think like 2-3 years and it has come quite a long way. Been difficult to change it so many times.
As far as Cha Cha's comments:
1. Mana Reflection I slotted it out because I'm working on some other decks and they need the Mana Reflection more than Mayael does. Sadly, that Mana Reflection dissapeared and I have no idea where it is... I'm hoping it wasn't stolen by someone I lent a deck to. I found that really any old mana doubler usually works just fine in the deck like Mirari's Wake... which even looks cooler too.
2. Zhur-Taa Ancient. I know this card is probably not the best choice for a lot of people and I knew I'd get a bunch of "lol y u do this" but I have found it works great politically and it also usually benefits me more than the other players. I kill people with this card. I will usually EOT it before my turn with either Mayael or Winding Canyons and go off the next turn. Really it is a second Vorinclex for me without the "Oh God he just put a Vorinclex on the table target him!" stuff. It will probably be slotted out eventually when a better ramp power 5 creature is printed, but in my opinion it is the best right now other than Sylvan Primordial. Krosan Tusker wasn't doing it for me.
3. Bloom Tender is ineffective because it gets wrath'd after I create a board presence, which puts me down three mana. I'd rather spend four to play Skyshroud Claim and grab some duals.
4. I tried Windbrisk Raptor over Mycoid Shepherd and the shepherd performs much better, because I don't have to be aggressive in order to gain life. Being over-aggressive will make you a target quickly with this deck and you'll get ganged up on and shut out of the game. Not to mention some people will dislike playing with you if you are always slaughtering their faces.
5. I ran Warstorm Surge and Where the Ancients Tread and was extremely disappointed with both of them. They usually just clogged up my hand or got passed up while triggering Mayael. I only killed someone once with one of these cards and it was because I Warstorm Surge'd into a Blightsteel Colossus and because the colossus deals the damage with that card he died to infect. It caused everyone on the table to rage quit. I also had Lightning Greaves to kill another player. So really it only did something awesome with one of my cards, once, and it made everyone hate me. I cut the surge after that.
6. The Ramp Package - Ramp is highly effective. I do not sacrifice ramp for more bodies. I believe I run the ideal amount of fatties (24-26 seems like a good balance), and really the rest is up to me. Knight of the Reliquary fetches my fetches and thins my deck out, decreasing my whiff percentage, while my other ramp spells fix my mana and just plain ramp me. I am primarily a green deck, and I absolutely need 1-2 ramp spells in my opening hand. I don't run Crucible of Worlds because I have knight, I run it because I run Armageddon and Strip Mine.
7. Regal Force... People keep saying its bad and I'm beginning to think that the card just likes me. I haven't whiffed with it once. I think the least I draw off it is 3 and that is rare.
8. Natural Order. I haven't run across anyone who has one for trade and its not really on my priority list to grab one. Its a good card but I don't think I absolutely need it. Its quite a bit of trade fodder to shell out just to upgrade my tutor package.
9. Haunted Fengraf seems like a good suggestion I'll test it out.
I think what is important is that a deck have synergy. Raikou Riders Mayael deck looks good and I understand the stuff he does with the deck. His deck works because it can make fatties fast with his cheats and top deck manip's and stuff. I use different synergies in my deck, such as lots of deck thinning and fast ramp to have a consistent and reliable way to produce large creatures. I will probably add Mana Reflection back in when I get one again but really Vorinclex, Mirari's Wake, and Zhur-Taa Ancient have been working great for me and its not really a necessity.
4. I tried Windbrisk Raptor over Mycoid Shepherd and the shepherd performs much better, because I don't have to be aggressive in order to gain life. Being over-aggressive will make you a target quickly with this deck and you'll get ganged up on and shut out of the game. Not to mention some people will dislike playing with you if you are always slaughtering their faces.
You play Iona, Blightsteel and Bruna and then tell me that Windbrisk RAPTOR is the card that gets you hated out for 'slaughtering faces' and being overly aggressive?
I dunno what to say to you there.
If you are telling me that your Mayel activations don't whiff often with a million ramp/non-fat spells and essentially no top deck manip), and Zhur-Taa works well for you more often than not, and you are more worried about Bloom Tender being wrathed over the times she will be useful, I can see we simply operate with opposite mentalities.
You are just making justifications to play cards you want to play (which is fine by the way, play how you want). But if you are asking for a discussion about your choices- be ready to hear opinions that will oppose yours... and don't expect me to know 'well my meta has this' or 'my playgroup will rage quit over that'; things like this are not healthy for a forum discussion, because we can't know the minds of your playgroups and we can't help you with productive solutions that way.
Mayael is not a (typically) political deck. You are playing giant fatty aggro and everything you lay down will be need to have as much value and effect on the game state as possible, doesn't leave much room for being cute. Aggro has a tough time in multiplayer as it is. Sitting there behind your wall of fatties being 'political' just gives your opponents more time to dig up an answer to your board.
You play Iona, Blightsteel and Bruna and then tell me that Windbrisk RAPTOR is the card that gets you hated out for 'slaughtering faces' and being overly aggressive?
I dunno what to say to you there.
If you are telling me that your Mayel activations don't whiff often with a million ramp/non-fat spells and essentially no top deck manip), and Zhur-Taa works well for you more often than not, and you are more worried about Bloom Tender being wrathed over the times she will be useful, I can see we simply operate with opposite mentalities.
You are just making justifications to play cards you want to play (which is fine by the way, play how you want). But if you are asking for a discussion about your choices- be ready to hear opinions that will oppose yours... and don't expect me to know 'well my meta has this' or 'my playgroup will rage quit over that'; things like this are not healthy for a forum discussion, because we can't know the minds of your playgroups and we can't help you with productive solutions that way.
Mayael is not a (typically) political deck. You are playing giant fatty aggro and everything you lay down will be need to have as much value and effect on the game state as possible, doesn't leave much room for being cute. Aggro has a tough time in multiplayer as it is. Sitting there behind your wall of fatties being 'political' just gives your opponents more time to dig up an answer to your board.
First about Windbrisk Raptor, No that is not what I meant. I didn't say it gets me hated out of the game. If I attack every turn with all my beef I usually get hated out. If I play defensively and make sure I'm not the number one target in the game then thats different. There is a difference between being political and turning your cards sideways every turn. People usually gang up on the guy who has the scariest field, or has the scariest deck, or just the guy who has been bringing on the most hurt. You can't just swing wildly into a bunch of people with a bunch of fatties. The odds are completely against you no matter what you are playing.
Also, I don't whiff with Mayael because I have lots of ramp. Not the other way around. If I'm constantly fetching lands I'm constantly decreasing my whiff percentage, while simultaneously getting ahead of everyone else.
As far as your argument kritik... I am being as critical as possible here. I really have one pet card in here and it is Knight of the Reliquary. I ran him even when I ran a bunch of cheats in my deck back in the day. I have always had him in my deck. He is the only card I actually can't part with. I am completely open to suggestions, but keep in mind I have played this deck for awhile and this is the build that has worked the best and has been most consistent. - As far as the meta stuff I will put that up in the thread and I should have thought of that.
As far as Bloom Tender goes... Yes my board is going to get wrathed. I am not worried about my fatties getting wrathed, because usually I just pop more out. But what I always want on the field is a consistent, reliable mana sources. Playing cards like Bloom Tender mean that when I get wiped I am not only losing my fatties, but I'm going to be down three mana. That hurts a lot. Id rather Farseek up a dual land. Slow and steady wins the race.
Heres the thing with Multiplayer - If you are going to be aggressive, then you have to know that you have the game, otherwise everyone is going to come right back at you and put you down. There are plenty of times when I can be super-aggressive with this deck. The thing is I know when to be aggressive. Like when I have Armageddon in my hand along with a tutor.... Fetch Avacyn. Win. But lets say I don't have that in my hand, and and I came out pretty fast with my Mayael trigger. If I want to not become a target fast, then I have to slow down my gameplay so I don't get shut out of the game early, especially if there are some control heavy decks playing in the pod. You have to be the good guy in the game, not the bad guy. Thats not playing "politically", thats just playing smart.
My Meta
Rith, the Awakener
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Glissa Sunseeker
Prime Speaker Zegana
Rubinia Soulsinger
Karona, False God
And several others....
1 Mayael, the Anima
The Fat (25)
1 Angel of Serenity
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Blazing Archon
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Mycoid Shepherd
1 Regal Force
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Spearbreaker Behemoth
1 Stalking Vengeance
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Sun Titan
1 Terastodon
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Worldspine Wurm
1 Zhur-Taa Ancient
"I Win" Cards (2)
1 Genesis Wave
1 Praetor's Counsel
Ramp/Land Tutor (13)
1 Crop Rotation
1 Cultivate
1 Life from the Loam
1 Realms Uncharted
1 Farseek
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mana Reflection
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Sol Ring
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Veteran Explorer
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Armageddon
1 Austere Command
1 Krosan Grip
1 Oblation
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Terminus
Tutor/Draw (5)
1 Chord of Calling
1 Greater Good
1 Primal Command
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Worldly Tutor
Other Utility (8)
1 Elvish Piper
1 Eternal Witness
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Illusionist's Bracers
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Swiftfoot Boots
Land (39)
4 Forest
2 Plains
2 Mountain
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Savannah
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Stomping Ground
1 Taiga
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Raging Ravine
1 Plateau
1 Arid Mesa
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Command Tower
1 Jungle Shrine
1 Vesuva
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Slippery Karst
1 Spinerock Knoll
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Temple of the False God
1 Winding Canyons
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
Some choices I made:
1. A little heavier on the ramp than most builds.
I think it is very important to have ways to clear out the lands in your deck quickly and efficiently in this deck. That way you have higher chances of hitting your big fat fatties. Simple statistics. That is also why most of my ramp thins out my deck.
2. Slotting out protection
Because then I can just hard cast them. Not to mention usually mayael isn't the biggest target in my playgroup. I have a few combo players in my group.
3. Not many "cheats"
The problem I have with cheats is that they are dead cards if I have no fat in my hand. I will see elvish piper every once in awhile, and when I do, its either "Did you just turn 3 ulamog with lightning greaves and piper?" or "My piper is going to sit here. And wait. Yep." Its inconsistant for me. Piper still looks cool since I have the older one however. So I kept ONE cheat in.
4. No contested cliffs or top
---Contested Cliffs isn't that great. There. I said it. Its simply not worth all that beast stuff. Plus I'm probably going to take out Godsire soon. He is next on the chopping block. Hes also not that great.
---Top looks at your top 3. Mayael looks at your top 5. I don't care about my top 3 cards. I'd rather have a cooler utility than top.
Mycoid Shepherd - This card interacts well with greater good (as stalking vengeance does). Mass life gain is great to put yourself out of range. This is a highly underestimated card. Some people will hesitate to wrath your board when they realize you will get 25+ life out of it.
Hoard-Smelter Dragon - I like this far better than any of the other artifact blowing hellkites (even the new one). Maze of Ith is a thing. I don't like how the other one has to connect in order for its effect to trigger.
Regal Force - This card usually draws me at least 3-6 cards when it hits. Seems pretty straight forward but some people don't run this card.
Zhur-Taa Ancient - A lot of people probably won't like this choice, however its here to unclog fat that gets caught in your hand, which helps a lot. This card is either really great, or it smacks you in the face. Pairing it with Vorinclex or Seedborn Muse makes it worth it. The key to this card is knowing when to let it hit. (Like after a well placed board wipe).
Sun Titan - Gets back veteran explorer, knight of the reliquary, strip mine, even Mayael if you want to risk putting her in the yard. Vigilance is also great in multiplayer.
Knight of the Reliquary - Its my favorite magic card ever printed. Its in all of my GW decks. I have no actual argument other than it can grab my fetches.
Veteran Explorer - I want to be able to thin out my deck for cheap. If this lands turn one, someone else on the field will probably want to kill it for some mana too. This means I can not only play mayael faster, but I now have a better chance of hitting a fatty. And this is only for one mana. Yes it helps everyone else, but not everyone else is hoping that the top 5 of their deck is a specific sort of card every time they trigger their general.
Oblation - Answers most things. I like it better than chaos warp. Probably because one time a guy Chaos Warp'd my Mayael, then I flipped a Worldspine Wurm off of it and killed him with it next turn.
Breaking Down the Fat:
Angel of Serenity, Balefire Dragon, Hoard-Smelter Dragon, Steel Hellkite, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Terastodon
Ramp (2)
Sylvan Primordial, Zhur-Taa Ancient
Protection (6)
Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Blazing Archon, Mycoid Shepherd, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Spearbreaker Behemoth, Stalking Vengeance
Greif (3)
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
Beatsticks (5)
Avenger of Zendikar, Blightsteel Colossus, Craterhoof Behemoth, Worldspine Wurm, Godsire
CA (3)
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Regal Force, Sun Titan
Cards I'm Considering:
Garruk, Primal Hunter
Defense of the Heart
Change Log:
5/3/13
+Crucible of Worlds -Expedition Map
+Realms Uncharted -Eye of Ugin
+Ruric Thar, the Unbowed -Godsire
5/8/13
+Mana Reflection -Mirari's Wake
Deck is now retired... Final list
DECK]
General (1)
1 Mayael, the Anima
The Fat (26)
1 Angel of Serenity
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Blazing Archon
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Scourge of Kher Ridges
1 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Regal Force
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Spearbreaker Behemoth
1 Stalking Vengeance
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Sun Titan
1 Terastodon
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Worldspine Wurm
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
Ramp/Land Tutor (12)
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith
1 Life from the Loam
1 Bloom Tender
1 Exploration
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mana Reflection
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Sol Ring
1 Recross the Paths
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
Removal/Wipes (6)
1 Wrath of God
1 Austere Command
1 Krosan Grip
1 Oblation
1 Chaos Warp
1 Terminus
Tutor/Draw (7)
1 Chord of Calling
1 Greater Good
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Mirri's Guile
Other Utility (8)
1 Lurking Predators
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Eternal Witness
1 Illusionist's Bracers
1 Asceticism
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Privileged Position
Land (38)
4 Forest
2 Plains
2 Mountain
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Savannah
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Stomping Ground
1 Taiga
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Raging Ravine
1 Plateau
1 Arid Mesa
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Command Tower
1 Jungle Shrine
1 Vesuva
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Slippery Karst
1 Spinerock Knoll
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Temple of the False God
1 Winding Canyons
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
[/DECK]
Current
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
GWUPheldagriff Group HugGWU
RGRRuric Thar, the UnbowedGRG
UXBOona ControlUXB
Retired
RGWMayael, the AnimaRGW
XGXGlissa Sunseeker ComboXGX
R Ashling the Pilgrim [EDH]
GB Meren of Clan Nel Toth [EDH]
URG Animar, Soul of Elements [EDH]
BGW Doran, the Siege Tower [EDH]
GRW Marath of the Wild[EDH]
Current
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
GWUPheldagriff Group HugGWU
RGRRuric Thar, the UnbowedGRG
UXBOona ControlUXB
Retired
RGWMayael, the AnimaRGW
XGXGlissa Sunseeker ComboXGX
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
Because you need to deal with hordes of creatures? Mayael isn't very good at defending against a million 1/1s. I agree that wraths get a little worse due to the new legend rule (we run a lot of legendary creatures) but some commanders need to be tucked, too. Once we get to a certain point in the game, we don't need Mayael. We can just cast fatties all day.
Emille, Seven-Sting Dancer Shalin Nariya
What about something like Aether Flash to protect against tokens. I would say Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite but she only has 4 power. Would spot removal be better then a wrath? Chaos Warp and Oblation seem better then destroying all your creatures right? Just doing some naya research...
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
Wraths are good. Especially with the new legend rule. Terminus and Akroma's Vengeance help me against decks that are faster and more beatface than mine is (like mono green). It is also there because I can recover from wraths quickly (I usually have some fat in my hand), whereas some decks fall flat on their face when they don't have a board presence. Slivers is a good example of deck that goes "whoops" when you wrath the board early.
Also. New legend rule. Terminus. How else do I deal with multiple Ulamog, the Infinite Gyres on the field? You can't tell me that isn't going to happen. I sort of forsee him getting banned...
PS: Steel Hellkite and Balefire Dragon are my token killers. They never fail me.
Current
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
GWUPheldagriff Group HugGWU
RGRRuric Thar, the UnbowedGRG
UXBOona ControlUXB
Retired
RGWMayael, the AnimaRGW
XGXGlissa Sunseeker ComboXGX
The lack of Top is certainly defensible. It's a great card, but its main utility comes from use with the cheat engines -- Lurking Predators gets a much better probability of firing, no need to discard stuff from Oath of Druids (or use it to filter your deck!), and you get (again) much better chance of topdecking stuff for Elvish Piper or Quicksilver Amulet.
How often do you even win with Genesis Wave? It's hard to see Vorinclex even lasting a turn around the board, and you have nothing that can tutor up Mirari's Wake. edit: Nevermind, I missed Zur-Taa ancient. Still, the question remains.
GRW Mayael the Anima WRG
From my point of view, I can have either cheat engines or I can swap it out for ramp and straight forward utility. At the end of the day me putting lands onto the battlefield is much more reliable than me trying to pull off shenanigans with cheat engines like Lurking Predators and Quicksilver Amulet. Not to mention just plain old mana ramp allows me to ramp up to my other spells like Genesis Wave. Which is why I don't undestand why I need a tutor for Mirari's Wake as you suggested. It is essentially just a 5 drop explosive ramp spell to me that bumps up my dudes a bit. I don't absolutely need it all the time, but its very nice when it comes up. Vorinclex and Zhur-Taa Ancient double my mana as well and they are easily tutorable. Not to mention I can usually set up an EOT Worldly Tutor for one of them and blow the table next turn with tons of mana. Also, Vorinclex stays on the table much longer than you'd think. I usually win with Genesis Wave 90% of the time I see the card. There have been a few times I whiffed when I had to cast it as a last resort for numbers less than 12.
Also: I slotted out Scourge some time ago. He wasn't doing enough for the deck. I think its just my meta he is just awkward in. Plus I never saw him... That card hated me.
Current
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
GWUPheldagriff Group HugGWU
RGRRuric Thar, the UnbowedGRG
UXBOona ControlUXB
Retired
RGWMayael, the AnimaRGW
XGXGlissa Sunseeker ComboXGX
EDIT: Also Haunted Fengraf is good with Crucible
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Even if you don't have a million ways to shuffle, Scroll Rack is insane. I have an entire section in the primer about why you should be playing Rack/Top in this deck.
Emille, Seven-Sting Dancer Shalin Nariya
So random thoughts as I read your list:
Where is Bloom Tender, Natural Order and Mana Reflection?
Zhur-Taa Ancient is terrible. I realize you try and rationalize how he can be good, but 24 out of 25 times you hit this guy, he is going to help your opponents more than he will you. In multiplayer without top or rack- your chances of him not benefiting an opponent's mana base before he is able to fully benefit yours is low. You can add a better mana doubler like mana reflection by dropping stuff like veteran explorer (helps opponents needlessly) and adding another, better, fat body... like: Akroma (white), Godsire (no idea why you dropped him over stuff like this guy or Craterhoof), Woodfall Primus (more removal on big bodies the better), Baneslayer (meta call but flying, lifelink plus minor protection against popular creature types is worth a look) etc.
You can't drop him as a wincon, he's just a wincon enabler, which means when you drop him you also have to have a card to blow his load on that turn. Too narrow.
Mycoid Shepherd is just not good enough. No one is going to hesitate to wrath your board with a Sigarda, Kozilek and Balefire in play etc., regardless of what you gain in life. If you are going to play cards that gain you life, why not play ones that gain you life by doing what this deck is supposed to do? (attacking). I'd slot it out for Windbrisk Raptor or True Conviction. That way when Avacyn, Speakbreaker or Ulamog is out, you don't have a 5/3 durdle being useless or hoping you have Greater Good out. True Conviction can double as a win con and way to gain life far more easily than Shepherd, the turn you drop it. Windbrisk compliments your strategy, which should be ultimately swinging with giant evasive/impactful bodies.
You said you play vs combo, so why do you think they would care if you gained 30+ life once and then all your threats to their gameplan/clock are now gone?
Too much spell based removal/ramp. Warstorm Surge/Where the ancients tread are made for a deck like this, they give you ability to get even more value from cheating in your fatties, they can replace and be far more effective than a single StP or Path. Terrastadon becomes a 4 for 1, Woodfall (if he was there) would become a repeatable 2 for 1 etc.
You claimed you wanted many ramp spells to clean out your mana quicker, but you do realize that you are simply filling that efficiency space with more spells and less bodies, right? I'd drop at least half those single use ramp spells and put in more utility or at least more artifact based ramp like s signet, darksteel ingot or something of the like.
I realize KotR is your pet card, but it convinces you to play cards like Crucible, which are bulky and hard to effectively get online in most situations. But it's your choice and you know your opponents more than I do.
Regal Force almost never hits a good amount of draw and you don't even play green mana dorks to bolster him. Less than half your guys are green in this deck.
That's all I got for this work break. I'd love to hear your thoughts, though it seems like your opinion is going to really boil down to 'well it works for me in my playgroup(s)'-type rationalizations.
Good luck and glad to see another Mayael player in the fold!
:symu::symr::symw::symb::symg: Dream Halls :symu::symr::symw::symb::symg:
:symu::symw: U/W/x Landstill (now Miracles) :symu::symw:
:symu::symu: Merfolk :symu::symu:
contact me!
Okay so I forgot Scroll Rack existed. I definitely need to grab me one of those guys and find something to take out. I've been playing this deck since... well it was my first EDH deck so I think like 2-3 years and it has come quite a long way. Been difficult to change it so many times.
As far as Cha Cha's comments:
1. Mana Reflection I slotted it out because I'm working on some other decks and they need the Mana Reflection more than Mayael does. Sadly, that Mana Reflection dissapeared and I have no idea where it is... I'm hoping it wasn't stolen by someone I lent a deck to. I found that really any old mana doubler usually works just fine in the deck like Mirari's Wake... which even looks cooler too.
2. Zhur-Taa Ancient. I know this card is probably not the best choice for a lot of people and I knew I'd get a bunch of "lol y u do this" but I have found it works great politically and it also usually benefits me more than the other players. I kill people with this card. I will usually EOT it before my turn with either Mayael or Winding Canyons and go off the next turn. Really it is a second Vorinclex for me without the "Oh God he just put a Vorinclex on the table target him!" stuff. It will probably be slotted out eventually when a better ramp power 5 creature is printed, but in my opinion it is the best right now other than Sylvan Primordial. Krosan Tusker wasn't doing it for me.
3. Bloom Tender is ineffective because it gets wrath'd after I create a board presence, which puts me down three mana. I'd rather spend four to play Skyshroud Claim and grab some duals.
4. I tried Windbrisk Raptor over Mycoid Shepherd and the shepherd performs much better, because I don't have to be aggressive in order to gain life. Being over-aggressive will make you a target quickly with this deck and you'll get ganged up on and shut out of the game. Not to mention some people will dislike playing with you if you are always slaughtering their faces.
5. I ran Warstorm Surge and Where the Ancients Tread and was extremely disappointed with both of them. They usually just clogged up my hand or got passed up while triggering Mayael. I only killed someone once with one of these cards and it was because I Warstorm Surge'd into a Blightsteel Colossus and because the colossus deals the damage with that card he died to infect. It caused everyone on the table to rage quit. I also had Lightning Greaves to kill another player. So really it only did something awesome with one of my cards, once, and it made everyone hate me. I cut the surge after that.
6. The Ramp Package - Ramp is highly effective. I do not sacrifice ramp for more bodies. I believe I run the ideal amount of fatties (24-26 seems like a good balance), and really the rest is up to me. Knight of the Reliquary fetches my fetches and thins my deck out, decreasing my whiff percentage, while my other ramp spells fix my mana and just plain ramp me. I am primarily a green deck, and I absolutely need 1-2 ramp spells in my opening hand. I don't run Crucible of Worlds because I have knight, I run it because I run Armageddon and Strip Mine.
7. Regal Force... People keep saying its bad and I'm beginning to think that the card just likes me. I haven't whiffed with it once. I think the least I draw off it is 3 and that is rare.
8. Natural Order. I haven't run across anyone who has one for trade and its not really on my priority list to grab one. Its a good card but I don't think I absolutely need it. Its quite a bit of trade fodder to shell out just to upgrade my tutor package.
9. Haunted Fengraf seems like a good suggestion I'll test it out.
I think what is important is that a deck have synergy. Raikou Riders Mayael deck looks good and I understand the stuff he does with the deck. His deck works because it can make fatties fast with his cheats and top deck manip's and stuff. I use different synergies in my deck, such as lots of deck thinning and fast ramp to have a consistent and reliable way to produce large creatures. I will probably add Mana Reflection back in when I get one again but really Vorinclex, Mirari's Wake, and Zhur-Taa Ancient have been working great for me and its not really a necessity.
Current
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
GWUPheldagriff Group HugGWU
RGRRuric Thar, the UnbowedGRG
UXBOona ControlUXB
Retired
RGWMayael, the AnimaRGW
XGXGlissa Sunseeker ComboXGX
You play Iona, Blightsteel and Bruna and then tell me that Windbrisk RAPTOR is the card that gets you hated out for 'slaughtering faces' and being overly aggressive?
I dunno what to say to you there.
If you are telling me that your Mayel activations don't whiff often with a million ramp/non-fat spells and essentially no top deck manip), and Zhur-Taa works well for you more often than not, and you are more worried about Bloom Tender being wrathed over the times she will be useful, I can see we simply operate with opposite mentalities.
You are just making justifications to play cards you want to play (which is fine by the way, play how you want). But if you are asking for a discussion about your choices- be ready to hear opinions that will oppose yours... and don't expect me to know 'well my meta has this' or 'my playgroup will rage quit over that'; things like this are not healthy for a forum discussion, because we can't know the minds of your playgroups and we can't help you with productive solutions that way.
Mayael is not a (typically) political deck. You are playing giant fatty aggro and everything you lay down will be need to have as much value and effect on the game state as possible, doesn't leave much room for being cute. Aggro has a tough time in multiplayer as it is. Sitting there behind your wall of fatties being 'political' just gives your opponents more time to dig up an answer to your board.
:symu::symr::symw::symb::symg: Dream Halls :symu::symr::symw::symb::symg:
:symu::symw: U/W/x Landstill (now Miracles) :symu::symw:
:symu::symu: Merfolk :symu::symu:
contact me!
First about Windbrisk Raptor, No that is not what I meant. I didn't say it gets me hated out of the game. If I attack every turn with all my beef I usually get hated out. If I play defensively and make sure I'm not the number one target in the game then thats different. There is a difference between being political and turning your cards sideways every turn. People usually gang up on the guy who has the scariest field, or has the scariest deck, or just the guy who has been bringing on the most hurt. You can't just swing wildly into a bunch of people with a bunch of fatties. The odds are completely against you no matter what you are playing.
Also, I don't whiff with Mayael because I have lots of ramp. Not the other way around. If I'm constantly fetching lands I'm constantly decreasing my whiff percentage, while simultaneously getting ahead of everyone else.
As far as your argument kritik... I am being as critical as possible here. I really have one pet card in here and it is Knight of the Reliquary. I ran him even when I ran a bunch of cheats in my deck back in the day. I have always had him in my deck. He is the only card I actually can't part with. I am completely open to suggestions, but keep in mind I have played this deck for awhile and this is the build that has worked the best and has been most consistent. - As far as the meta stuff I will put that up in the thread and I should have thought of that.
As far as Bloom Tender goes... Yes my board is going to get wrathed. I am not worried about my fatties getting wrathed, because usually I just pop more out. But what I always want on the field is a consistent, reliable mana sources. Playing cards like Bloom Tender mean that when I get wiped I am not only losing my fatties, but I'm going to be down three mana. That hurts a lot. Id rather Farseek up a dual land. Slow and steady wins the race.
Heres the thing with Multiplayer - If you are going to be aggressive, then you have to know that you have the game, otherwise everyone is going to come right back at you and put you down. There are plenty of times when I can be super-aggressive with this deck. The thing is I know when to be aggressive. Like when I have Armageddon in my hand along with a tutor.... Fetch Avacyn. Win. But lets say I don't have that in my hand, and and I came out pretty fast with my Mayael trigger. If I want to not become a target fast, then I have to slow down my gameplay so I don't get shut out of the game early, especially if there are some control heavy decks playing in the pod. You have to be the good guy in the game, not the bad guy. Thats not playing "politically", thats just playing smart.
Also. Should I try and fit in Defense of the Heart?
Current
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
GWUPheldagriff Group HugGWU
RGRRuric Thar, the UnbowedGRG
UXBOona ControlUXB
Retired
RGWMayael, the AnimaRGW
XGXGlissa Sunseeker ComboXGX