Even if this is just for block play, what's to stop everyone from just picking up these cards then replacing all their basic lands with snow basics?
You could ask the same question of Ice Age or Coldsnap. There have been cards that reward you for playing snow basics since 1995. I haven't seen players abandon regular basics en masse, yet.
Now, if these cards are competitive outside Block, does that mean that snow basics have now become "strictly better" than regular basics? I'm interested to find out, honestly. I'd be perfectly happy if that were true, at least in certain formats, and at least for a limited amount of time.
Of course, there are always cards like this one. But, I'm not interested in printing more cards like that. Kind of like how MaRo doesn't want cards that help you remove poison counters, I don't want cards that hose you for playing snow permanents.
Another point I'll mention again is that I'm not including any cards like Arctic Flats in the set. There may be nonbasic snow lands, but none of them will produce more than one color of mana.
I don't feel like snow should ever do discard BETTER than black does it, which these feel like; is it possible to do discard well, but different?
I explicitly tried not to step on black's toes.
One of the ideas was that, in each of these cases, there's no 100% guarantee of any discard. In the case of Lost in the North, you need to time it properly. For Cold Therapy, you have to name the right card, and you don't get a second chance. For Cryonic Sleep, you actually generate card disadvantage for yourself. I felt like each of these three cards was something that black would not necessarily do.
Now, did I succeed? I'll accept criticism that I didn't. But I did try to do these in a way that black wouldn't.
You could ask the same question of Ice Age or Coldsnap. There have been cards that reward you for playing snow basics since 1995. I haven't seen players abandon regular basics en masse, yet.
Snow basics were printed in extremely limited quantities compared to regular basics. The time and expense of getting them, and cards that care about snow, is why I suspect 99% of players won't even bother. But we're not talking about the real world, we're talking about a hypothetical format in which unlimited quantities of snow basics are available, there are cards that reward you for playing snow basics that can go in any deck, and there are no cards that specifically hose snow. In this format, regardless of what deck I'm playing, I have zero reason to run a non-snow basic over a snow basic. If I'm playing snow cards, snow basics help me cast them, and if I'm not playing snow cards, running non-snow basics gives my opponent a significant amount of free information that he doesn't deserve to have. Even if the multicolor faction is restricted enough that it can only support 1-2 players per draft, those players will still require a significant number of basics for their deck (though possibly none in Block Constructed, if there's sufficient land-based fixing). If there's no benefit to running non-snow basics over snow basics, why even bother having them in the set at all?
For Cold Therapy, you have to name the right card, and you don't get a second chance.
There are Legacy decks with zero creatures in them that play Cabal Therapy, just because the base effect is so powerful. Heck, I would splurge on snow basics to run this card out of the sideboard of Mono Red Goblins. So to me, this card is not a success, it's a blatant violation of the color pie on the order of Dismember.
Cryonic Sleep is not as bad, because it requires that you have 2 mana open, and if that's the case on turn 2 while your opponent is comboing off you probably have access to countermagic anyway. (Or Mindbreak Trap.)
If there's no benefit to running non-snow basics over snow basics, why even bother having them in the set at all?
For contrast. And for flavor.
Icefall, the second set in the block, will have snow basics and only snow basics.
I might try to put in some cards that reward you for using regular basics in a very, very oblique way. Though obviously not exactly the card that I linked, there.
There are Legacy decks with zero creatures in them that play Cabal Therapy, just because the base effect is so powerful. Heck, I would splurge on snow basics to run this card out of the sideboard of Mono Red Goblins. So to me, this card is not a success, it's a blatant violation of the color pie on the order of Dismember.
Cryonic Sleep is not as bad, because it requires that you have 2 mana open, and if that's the case on turn 2 while your opponent is comboing off you probably have access to countermagic anyway. (Or Mindbreak Trap.)
If Cold Therapy was "a" card, instead of "all" cards, would that change things?
And are these creatureless decks running Cabal Therapy because it's inherently powerful as a standalone card, or because it's Duress 5-8? I'm genuinely curious.
I'm considering a SS cost for Cryonic Sleep, although I won't lie, I prefer the 1S cost.
If Cold Therapy was "a" card, instead of "all" cards, would that change things?
Not really. You generally blind cast Cabal Therapy to hit a card -- any extra copies that happen to be there are a random bonus.
Just to clarify, I'm not complaining about the raw power level of the card; I'm complaining that it doesn't feel sufficiently nonblack. Lost in the North is weird and different enough from Mind Rot, and other existing cards, that I can be ok with it in all colors. Cryonic Sleep is weird and different enough from Silence, and other existing cards, that I can be ok with it in all colors. Cold Therapy isn't weird, it isn't different enough from all the other "name a card" discard spells, which are black or black-blue, and it doesn't seem necessary for balance purposes that this effect be bled into Naya colors.
And are these creatureless decks running Cabal Therapy because it's inherently powerful as a standalone card, or because it's Duress 5-8? I'm genuinely curious.
In every deck other than Dredge, it's there to supplement Duress and/or Thoughtseize, though I'm not entirely positive on the numbers.
Snow Instant [C]
(:snow: can be paid with one mana from a snow source.)
The next time target opponent would draw a card this turn, instead that player discards a card at random.
Snow Sorcery [U]
(:snow: can be paid with one mana from a snow source.)
Name a nonland card. Target player reveals his or her hand and discards all cards with that name.
Snow Instant [R]
(:snow: can be paid with one mana from a snow source.)
Target opponent discards his or her hand. At the beginning of the next end step, that player draws that many cards.
Even if this is just for block play, what's to stop everyone from just picking up these cards then replacing all their basic lands with snow basics?
Avatar by Numotflame96 of Maelstrom Graphics
Sig banner thanks to DarkNightCavalier of Heroes of the Plane Studios!
You could ask the same question of Ice Age or Coldsnap. There have been cards that reward you for playing snow basics since 1995. I haven't seen players abandon regular basics en masse, yet.
Now, if these cards are competitive outside Block, does that mean that snow basics have now become "strictly better" than regular basics? I'm interested to find out, honestly. I'd be perfectly happy if that were true, at least in certain formats, and at least for a limited amount of time.
Of course, there are always cards like this one. But, I'm not interested in printing more cards like that. Kind of like how MaRo doesn't want cards that help you remove poison counters, I don't want cards that hose you for playing snow permanents.
Another point I'll mention again is that I'm not including any cards like Arctic Flats in the set. There may be nonbasic snow lands, but none of them will produce more than one color of mana.
I explicitly tried not to step on black's toes.
One of the ideas was that, in each of these cases, there's no 100% guarantee of any discard. In the case of Lost in the North, you need to time it properly. For Cold Therapy, you have to name the right card, and you don't get a second chance. For Cryonic Sleep, you actually generate card disadvantage for yourself. I felt like each of these three cards was something that black would not necessarily do.
Now, did I succeed? I'll accept criticism that I didn't. But I did try to do these in a way that black wouldn't.
Snow basics were printed in extremely limited quantities compared to regular basics. The time and expense of getting them, and cards that care about snow, is why I suspect 99% of players won't even bother. But we're not talking about the real world, we're talking about a hypothetical format in which unlimited quantities of snow basics are available, there are cards that reward you for playing snow basics that can go in any deck, and there are no cards that specifically hose snow. In this format, regardless of what deck I'm playing, I have zero reason to run a non-snow basic over a snow basic. If I'm playing snow cards, snow basics help me cast them, and if I'm not playing snow cards, running non-snow basics gives my opponent a significant amount of free information that he doesn't deserve to have. Even if the multicolor faction is restricted enough that it can only support 1-2 players per draft, those players will still require a significant number of basics for their deck (though possibly none in Block Constructed, if there's sufficient land-based fixing). If there's no benefit to running non-snow basics over snow basics, why even bother having them in the set at all?
There are Legacy decks with zero creatures in them that play Cabal Therapy, just because the base effect is so powerful. Heck, I would splurge on snow basics to run this card out of the sideboard of Mono Red Goblins. So to me, this card is not a success, it's a blatant violation of the color pie on the order of Dismember.
Cryonic Sleep is not as bad, because it requires that you have 2 mana open, and if that's the case on turn 2 while your opponent is comboing off you probably have access to countermagic anyway. (Or Mindbreak Trap.)
Avatar by Numotflame96 of Maelstrom Graphics
Sig banner thanks to DarkNightCavalier of Heroes of the Plane Studios!
For contrast. And for flavor.
Icefall, the second set in the block, will have snow basics and only snow basics.
I might try to put in some cards that reward you for using regular basics in a very, very oblique way. Though obviously not exactly the card that I linked, there.
If Cold Therapy was "a" card, instead of "all" cards, would that change things?
And are these creatureless decks running Cabal Therapy because it's inherently powerful as a standalone card, or because it's Duress 5-8? I'm genuinely curious.
I'm considering a SS cost for Cryonic Sleep, although I won't lie, I prefer the 1S cost.
Not really. You generally blind cast Cabal Therapy to hit a card -- any extra copies that happen to be there are a random bonus.
Just to clarify, I'm not complaining about the raw power level of the card; I'm complaining that it doesn't feel sufficiently nonblack. Lost in the North is weird and different enough from Mind Rot, and other existing cards, that I can be ok with it in all colors. Cryonic Sleep is weird and different enough from Silence, and other existing cards, that I can be ok with it in all colors. Cold Therapy isn't weird, it isn't different enough from all the other "name a card" discard spells, which are black or black-blue, and it doesn't seem necessary for balance purposes that this effect be bled into Naya colors.
In every deck other than Dredge, it's there to supplement Duress and/or Thoughtseize, though I'm not entirely positive on the numbers.
Avatar by Numotflame96 of Maelstrom Graphics
Sig banner thanks to DarkNightCavalier of Heroes of the Plane Studios!