Against control matchups the Loam + Raven's Crime package can wreak havoc.
The reanimation package is currently in the sideboard because it is poor in some matchups and best when tailored to the opponent's deck.
I'm not sure if Liliana of the Veil is right for the deck. She has synergy with Loam and Academy Ruins, and helps deplete my opponent's resources and serve as repeated removal. But I don't have a large set of things that work well in the GY.
I am testing Trickbind, Into the Roil, and Voidslime. I think there are enough good targets for Trickbind to be fun. Into the Roil currently serves as an extra bounce spell fetchable with gifts, and good both anti-aggro and late game to bounce + draw. Voidslime is in as the only hard counter, although I'm not sure how well I can support the double blue requirement.
Updated 06-27-13 - Moved reanimation package into the main. Cut a Capsule, Into the Roil, and Voidslime. Updated mana-base accordingly.
Can you explain this lock to me? I can see how Ruins lets you get the artifacts back on top of your library, but you still need to draw and cast them again
Can you explain this lock to me? I can see how Ruins lets you get the artifacts back on top of your library, but you still need to draw and cast them again
You still get all four no matter how they split the cards. You have Ruins to get back the artifacts, Loam to get back ruins, and Dredge mechanic to get back Loam. It's not a hard lock, I think he just means board lock. The only problem I see is not being able to answer high CC non creature permanents, like a resolved Birthing Pod. You need Oblivion Stone in the Gifts package for it to become a board lock.
Can you explain this lock to me? I can see how Ruins lets you get the artifacts back on top of your library, but you still need to draw and cast them again
No matter what, you can get out Ruins (even if you have to Dredge LftL) and spam the PopRock every turn (just Ruins it back on top of your library before your draw phase).
If you make a poor choice for X, your opponent may try delaying the soft lock for as long as possible by binning Ruins and PopRock and handing you LftL and X.
I see it (and saw that before), but I guess it does not fit my definition of a lock.
It is not a lock like Mind Slaver, but it lets you recur either Doom Blade (ie. Capsule) or Engineered Explosives indefinitely. With this you can handle everything except black manlands, high CMC black creatures, and high CMC non-creature permanents. Basically anything but Griselbrand, Creeping Tar Pit, or Karn.
I brainstormed with some friends and they advised that the reanimation package is strong enough I should include it, despite the drawback in control matchups.
With that in mind, I'm planning to pull 1 Watery Grave, Voidslime, Into the Roil, and something else, and put in Elesh Norn, Iona, Unburial Rites, and Temple Garden. If the mana base needs more white, I can pull the singleton Forest for a second dual land with Forest type.
Warp, I can't believe I left out Maelstrom Pulse! Also, Glissa seems fairly techy - how good has she been for you?
Against control matchups the Loam + Raven's Crime package can wreak havoc.
The reanimation package is currently in the sideboard because it is poor in some matchups and best when tailored to the opponent's deck.
I'm not sure if Liliana of the Veil is right for the deck. She has synergy with Loam and Academy Ruins, and helps deplete my opponent's resources and serve as repeated removal. But I don't have a large set of things that work well in the GY.
I am testing Trickbind, Into the Roil, and Voidslime. I think there are enough good targets for Trickbind to be fun. Into the Roil currently serves as an extra bounce spell fetchable with gifts, and good both anti-aggro and late game to bounce + draw. Voidslime is in as the only hard counter, although I'm not sure how well I can support the double blue requirement.
you need white sources if you want unburial in sideboard
also the mana base looks a litlle greedy and only 24 lands when you want to aslo be using them as a resource other than jsut playing(deathrite crime lilli) them especially with fetches seems low.
My list runs an actual lock with necrogen spellbomb causing them to discard at the end of their draw step every time. I generally beatdown with a glissa, deathrite, trinket mage, or my creeping tar pit while I'm locking them out of the game. If they're a red deck this, however, won't work. Against red decks, I usually get my batterskull online first or thrun, then start locking them out.
Also, I tested out the reanimator package, and all it did was leave me dead cards in hand or more susceptibility to grave hate which is not what I wanted. Glissa is ABSURD against every deck even control. They don't realize that killing their snapcasters gives me back some random artifacts which provide advantage. Nihil spellbomb is great mainboard. If they're relying on deathrite to accelerate in response you can nuke their grave and draw, so they don't get it; not to mention it can randomly win against grave based decks. The trinket mage tutoring is my favorite part. I've used every card in my deck in most matchups, especially the mainboard pithing needle. It will randomly get people out of nowhere. Also on glissa with engineered explosives or executioners capsule, it gets ridiculous against any aggressive deck. I honestly think I've perfected the mainboard, I'm not so sure about the sideboard yet, but I like what I've got.
Hey warp I really like your list. How well does it do compared to standard and tested traditional gifts rites decks though? Seems like they both use the gy and heavy removal for a strong late game. I also see a lot of discard in 4c rites. And how useful is Spellskite to you?
Hey warp I really like your list. How well does it do compared to standard and tested traditional gifts rites decks though? Seems like they both use the gy and heavy removal for a strong late game. I also see a lot of discard in 4c rites. And how useful is Spellskite to you?
Thanks, I've actually put a lot of time into it. I think it's honestly better suited to combat deathrite shaman than normal 4c gift rites and has a better late game as well as not having the problem with having dead cards in hand as much as that version does. And honestly I'm thinking about moving the discard to the main but in this creature heavy meta I prefer more removal main, that's a meta choice. Spellskite is the stone cold nuts against a lot of decks. If I get a spellskite out before I start the spellbomb lock, it is really hard to lose.
The main difference is that 4c rites gifts gets free wins while this deck had to work for all of its wins and takes much more thought into its piles. Also remember artifacts are not susceptible to deathrite shaman which is the sole reason I have batterskull over wurmcoil. So if early in the game you want advantage that they can't remove with drs, then you can grab 4 artifacts.
Edit: I'm thinking of replacing a single land with expedition map; not only is it fetchable with trinket, but it fixes mana and finds ruins/quarters/urborg mainboard, but post board it can find our tec edge or boseiju against decks that it matters.
One more thing to note. With boseiju you can pay colorless as part of x to make it uncounterable along the same vein as paying 3 with 2 colors so it can't be spell snared--just another neat trick that's won me a game.
Thanks, I've actually put a lot of time into it. I think it's honestly better suited to combat deathrite shaman than normal 4c gift rites and has a better late game as well as not having the problem with having dead cards in hand as much as that version does. And honestly I'm thinking about moving the discard to the main but in this creature heavy meta I prefer more removal main, that's a meta choice. Spellskite is the stone cold nuts against a lot of decks. If I get a spellskite out before I start the spellbomb lock, it is really hard to lose.
The main difference is that 4c rites gifts gets free wins while this deck had to work for all of its wins and takes much more thought into its piles. Also remember artifacts are not susceptible to deathrite shaman which is the sole reason I have batterskull over wurmcoil. So if early in the game you want advantage that they can't remove with drs, then you can grab 4 artifacts.
Edit: I'm thinking of replacing a single land with expedition map; not only is it fetchable with trinket, but it fixes mana and finds ruins/quarters/urborg mainboard, but post board it can find our tec edge or boseiju against decks that it matters.
One more thing to note. With boseiju you can pay colorless as part of x to make it uncounterable along the same vein as paying 3 with 2 colors so it can't be spell snared--just another neat trick that's won me a game.
I assume that you have a Deathrite out before you start the lock, right? Otherwise you are locked as well and the board sit there, as you will draw nothing but your Spellbomb.
I assume that you have a Deathrite out before you start the lock, right? Otherwise you are locked as well and the board sit there, as you will draw nothing but your Spellbomb.
Or you just mill them. Since you're drawing nothing but spellbomb over and over again, they lose To milling them out.
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Or you just mill them. Since you're drawing nothing but spellbomb over and over again, they lose To milling them out.
Aha, that makes sense. Perhaps I can include a Trinket Mage package in the side which includes this, for the control match ups.
I updated the main post with the reanimation build and modified mana base.
I also need to fit Maelstron Pulse into the main - too good to not have one, and goes well in a gifts package.
Or you just mill them. Since you're drawing nothing but spellbomb over and over again, they lose To milling them out.
This wont work vs fae or any deck that runs useful instants. They can respond to you making them discard by casting instant speed spell they just drew.
This wont work vs fae or any deck that runs useful instants. They can respond to you making them discard by casting instant speed spell they just drew.
good thing fae isn't a real deck right now. If you happen to face fae, set up another lock first, like playing ensnaring bridge. And again, against decks with lots of instant speed burn, set up a creature to attack first, preferably a manland or thrun, and you can straight up race them, since they aren't going to draw instants every turn.
I didn't have a lot of time last night (helping my wife rebuild RG aggro), but I did put together a quick sideboard for FNM tonight. I'll work on the Trinket Mage package SB later when I have more time.
I ran the deck at our Modern FNM on Friday, and it ran very well. My matchups were WUR control, WUR Superfriends, and another WUR control. Before rounds I played against Soul Sisters and Melira Pod.
I beat the first two WUR decks, and lost in 3 games to the third. That loss was due to mana issues in both games. In my pre-FNM games, I destroyed Soul Sisters repeatedly. I lost to Melira Pod twice, although it was partly due to mana screw.
I found I have a very strong matchup against creature decks, and also excellent vs Control. Pod can be quite difficult, despite my heavy removal, because a good Pod player knows how to exert pressure carefully until I fall behind on spot removal.
The reanimation was excellent - I was able to heavily pressure control's hand. A quick "I win" combo was very signifcant. Crime was also very useful for when I drew a combo piece. Loam, Raven's Crime, and Urborg package was devastating. In several games I stripped my opponents hand of 4+ cards in one turn. I then killed with manlands once we had both dumped our hands. The reanimating Iona when my opponent was forced to tap out was very successful.
There are several changes I would like to make.
1) Add the 4th Deathrite. It gives a tremendous advantage, and generally must be killed on sight or I gain a huge advantage.
2) Trickbind is fun, but should probably be Squelch or another counter. I hit an Elspeth ultimate with it, and countered a Venser Shaper EtB trigger.
3) Batterskull is mostly too slow. With no way to cheat on it (ie Stoneforge), it will generally eat immediate removal. While it may be inevitable in a long game, it requires a huge amount of mana to use repeatedly. I do need some sort of lifegain finisher, however. Maybe Wurmcoil or maindeck Sphinx of the Steel Wind?
Decide early in the game what route to victory you need - Gifts Iona, Raven's Crime hand attack, Academy Ruins removal lock.
The deck was complex enough that I made a variety of play errors, it has many options and aspects for my play can improve.
Thanks for the report. How does this deck compare (in terms of gameplay, power level, etc) with the 4CC Gifts deck? The decks look very similar to me and are capable of setting up the same locks/interactions (Unburial Rites, Loam + Raven's Crime, and Academy Ruins lock). The major difference seems to be that this deck runs more sweepers and a pair of bounce spells rather than the 3-4 Lingering Souls in 4CC Gifts.
How has the low counterspell count been working for you -- in particular the lone Remand which doesn't have much support in the way of other counters, and no consistent way of taking advantage of the tempo boost? Have you considered taking out all the counterspells in exchange for some point discard?
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Against control matchups the Loam + Raven's Crime package can wreak havoc.
The reanimation package is currently in the sideboard because it is poor in some matchups and best when tailored to the opponent's deck.
I'm not sure if Liliana of the Veil is right for the deck. She has synergy with Loam and Academy Ruins, and helps deplete my opponent's resources and serve as repeated removal. But I don't have a large set of things that work well in the GY.
I am testing Trickbind, Into the Roil, and Voidslime. I think there are enough good targets for Trickbind to be fun. Into the Roil currently serves as an extra bounce spell fetchable with gifts, and good both anti-aggro and late game to bounce + draw. Voidslime is in as the only hard counter, although I'm not sure how well I can support the double blue requirement.
Updated 06-27-13 - Moved reanimation package into the main. Cut a Capsule, Into the Roil, and Voidslime. Updated mana-base accordingly.
1x Darkblast
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Smother
1x Go for the Throat
1x Executioner's Capsule
Bounce (2)
1x Echoing Truth
1x Repeal
Counter/Stifle (4)
1x Trickbind
1x Remand
1x Spell Pierce
1x Mana Leak
Discard (3)
1x Raven's Crime
2x Liliana of the Veil
Board Wipe (5)
1x Infest
2x Damnation
2x Engineered Explosives
Gifts Package & Loam (10)
4x Gifts Ungiven
2x Snapcaster Mage
1x Life from the Loam
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Unburial Rites
3x Deathrite Shaman
1x Batterskull
Land (26)
1x Academy Ruins
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Treetop Village
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Misty Rainforest
1x Marsh Flats
2x Breeding Pool
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Watery Grave
1x Temple Garden
1x Swamp
1x Forest
2x Woodland Cemetery
2x Hinterland Harbor
1x Drowned Catacomb
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Worm Harvest
1x Wurmcoil Engine
2x Trinket Mage
1x Necrogen Spellbomb
1x Spellskite
3x Glissa, the Traitor
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
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Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Spellskite
3 Glissa, the Traitor
2 Trinket Mage
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Spells:25
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Necrogen Spellbomb
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Raven's Crime
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Life from the Loam
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Infest
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Damnation
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Mutilate
1 Batterskull
1 Academy Ruins
1 Breeding Pool
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
2 Woodland Cemetery
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Darkblast
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Spellskite
1 Infest
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Putrefy
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Top 8'd modern states with tarmo-twin
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You still get all four no matter how they split the cards. You have Ruins to get back the artifacts, Loam to get back ruins, and Dredge mechanic to get back Loam. It's not a hard lock, I think he just means board lock. The only problem I see is not being able to answer high CC non creature permanents, like a resolved Birthing Pod. You need Oblivion Stone in the Gifts package for it to become a board lock.
UWR Midrange
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Gifts for PopRock-Academy Ruins-Life from the Loam-X.
No matter what, you can get out Ruins (even if you have to Dredge LftL) and spam the PopRock every turn (just Ruins it back on top of your library before your draw phase).
If you make a poor choice for X, your opponent may try delaying the soft lock for as long as possible by binning Ruins and PopRock and handing you LftL and X.
Do not attempt this pile if they have an active Deathrite Shaman or a Scavenging Ooze out. Get a 3-4 removal pile instead.
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It is not a lock like Mind Slaver, but it lets you recur either Doom Blade (ie. Capsule) or Engineered Explosives indefinitely. With this you can handle everything except black manlands, high CMC black creatures, and high CMC non-creature permanents. Basically anything but Griselbrand, Creeping Tar Pit, or Karn.
I brainstormed with some friends and they advised that the reanimation package is strong enough I should include it, despite the drawback in control matchups.
With that in mind, I'm planning to pull 1 Watery Grave, Voidslime, Into the Roil, and something else, and put in Elesh Norn, Iona, Unburial Rites, and Temple Garden. If the mana base needs more white, I can pull the singleton Forest for a second dual land with Forest type.
Warp, I can't believe I left out Maelstrom Pulse! Also, Glissa seems fairly techy - how good has she been for you?
Check out Odds//Ends - My articles on Quirky Cards and Oddball Builds
Long-time PucaTrade member and sometime author. Send me cards!
Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo
you need white sources if you want unburial in sideboard
also the mana base looks a litlle greedy and only 24 lands when you want to aslo be using them as a resource other than jsut playing(deathrite crime lilli) them especially with fetches seems low.
Also, I tested out the reanimator package, and all it did was leave me dead cards in hand or more susceptibility to grave hate which is not what I wanted. Glissa is ABSURD against every deck even control. They don't realize that killing their snapcasters gives me back some random artifacts which provide advantage. Nihil spellbomb is great mainboard. If they're relying on deathrite to accelerate in response you can nuke their grave and draw, so they don't get it; not to mention it can randomly win against grave based decks. The trinket mage tutoring is my favorite part. I've used every card in my deck in most matchups, especially the mainboard pithing needle. It will randomly get people out of nowhere. Also on glissa with engineered explosives or executioners capsule, it gets ridiculous against any aggressive deck. I honestly think I've perfected the mainboard, I'm not so sure about the sideboard yet, but I like what I've got.
Top 8'd modern states with tarmo-twin
Thanks, I've actually put a lot of time into it. I think it's honestly better suited to combat deathrite shaman than normal 4c gift rites and has a better late game as well as not having the problem with having dead cards in hand as much as that version does. And honestly I'm thinking about moving the discard to the main but in this creature heavy meta I prefer more removal main, that's a meta choice. Spellskite is the stone cold nuts against a lot of decks. If I get a spellskite out before I start the spellbomb lock, it is really hard to lose.
The main difference is that 4c rites gifts gets free wins while this deck had to work for all of its wins and takes much more thought into its piles. Also remember artifacts are not susceptible to deathrite shaman which is the sole reason I have batterskull over wurmcoil. So if early in the game you want advantage that they can't remove with drs, then you can grab 4 artifacts.
Edit: I'm thinking of replacing a single land with expedition map; not only is it fetchable with trinket, but it fixes mana and finds ruins/quarters/urborg mainboard, but post board it can find our tec edge or boseiju against decks that it matters.
One more thing to note. With boseiju you can pay colorless as part of x to make it uncounterable along the same vein as paying 3 with 2 colors so it can't be spell snared--just another neat trick that's won me a game.
Top 8'd modern states with tarmo-twin
I assume that you have a Deathrite out before you start the lock, right? Otherwise you are locked as well and the board sit there, as you will draw nothing but your Spellbomb.
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Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo
Or you just mill them. Since you're drawing nothing but spellbomb over and over again, they lose To milling them out.
Top 8'd modern states with tarmo-twin
Aha, that makes sense. Perhaps I can include a Trinket Mage package in the side which includes this, for the control match ups.
I updated the main post with the reanimation build and modified mana base.
I also need to fit Maelstron Pulse into the main - too good to not have one, and goes well in a gifts package.
Check out Odds//Ends - My articles on Quirky Cards and Oddball Builds
Long-time PucaTrade member and sometime author. Send me cards!
Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo
This wont work vs fae or any deck that runs useful instants. They can respond to you making them discard by casting instant speed spell they just drew.
good thing fae isn't a real deck right now. If you happen to face fae, set up another lock first, like playing ensnaring bridge. And again, against decks with lots of instant speed burn, set up a creature to attack first, preferably a manland or thrun, and you can straight up race them, since they aren't going to draw instants every turn.
Also here's my new list for reference:
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Spellskite
3 Glissa, the Traitor
2 Trinket Mage
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Spells:26
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Expedition Map
1 Necrogen Spellbomb
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Raven's Crime
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Life from the Loam
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Infest
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Damnation
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Mutilate
1 Batterskull
1 Academy Ruins
1 Breeding Pool
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
2 Woodland Cemetery
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Darkblast
1 Dispel
3 Thoughtseize
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Black Sun's Zenith
2 Spellskite
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Putrefy
1 Notion Thief
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Top 8'd modern states with tarmo-twin
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Wurm Harvest
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Creeping Corrosion
2 Spell Pierce
2 Glissa, the Traitor
Check out Odds//Ends - My articles on Quirky Cards and Oddball Builds
Long-time PucaTrade member and sometime author. Send me cards!
Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo
Top 8'd modern states with tarmo-twin
I beat the first two WUR decks, and lost in 3 games to the third. That loss was due to mana issues in both games. In my pre-FNM games, I destroyed Soul Sisters repeatedly. I lost to Melira Pod twice, although it was partly due to mana screw.
I found I have a very strong matchup against creature decks, and also excellent vs Control. Pod can be quite difficult, despite my heavy removal, because a good Pod player knows how to exert pressure carefully until I fall behind on spot removal.
The reanimation was excellent - I was able to heavily pressure control's hand. A quick "I win" combo was very signifcant. Crime was also very useful for when I drew a combo piece. Loam, Raven's Crime, and Urborg package was devastating. In several games I stripped my opponents hand of 4+ cards in one turn. I then killed with manlands once we had both dumped our hands. The reanimating Iona when my opponent was forced to tap out was very successful.
There are several changes I would like to make.
1) Add the 4th Deathrite. It gives a tremendous advantage, and generally must be killed on sight or I gain a huge advantage.
2) Trickbind is fun, but should probably be Squelch or another counter. I hit an Elspeth ultimate with it, and countered a Venser Shaper EtB trigger.
3) Batterskull is mostly too slow. With no way to cheat on it (ie Stoneforge), it will generally eat immediate removal. While it may be inevitable in a long game, it requires a huge amount of mana to use repeatedly. I do need some sort of lifegain finisher, however. Maybe Wurmcoil or maindeck Sphinx of the Steel Wind?
Decide early in the game what route to victory you need - Gifts Iona, Raven's Crime hand attack, Academy Ruins removal lock.
The deck was complex enough that I made a variety of play errors, it has many options and aspects for my play can improve.
Check out Odds//Ends - My articles on Quirky Cards and Oddball Builds
Long-time PucaTrade member and sometime author. Send me cards!
Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo
How has the low counterspell count been working for you -- in particular the lone Remand which doesn't have much support in the way of other counters, and no consistent way of taking advantage of the tempo boost? Have you considered taking out all the counterspells in exchange for some point discard?