I, as well as other U/B enthusiasts, thoroughly believe Dimir got hosed on cards this trip to Ravnica. Others are more than welcome to post their own ideas. Here's where I've Started:
Mindwright Æthersmith
Mindwright Æthersmith :3mana::symu::symb:
Creature - Human Wizard Rogue
:symu::symb:, :symtap:: Exile target creature, then return it to the battlefield under your control at the beginning of the next End step. You lose life equal to it's power. So glad you could join me, now get to work.
2/4
Manipulate Momentum
Manipulate Momentum :1mana::symu::symu::symb::symb:
Instant
Counter target spell. If it is countered this way, exile it. You may cast a copy of the spell exiled with Manipulate Momentum without paying it's mana cost.
Version 1.0
Manipulate Momentum :1mana::symu::symu::symb:
Instant
Manipulate Momentum can't be countered.
Counter target spell. If it is countered this way, exile it. You may cast a copy of the spell exiled with Manipulate Momentum without paying it's mana cost.
Phantom's Guile
Phantom's Guile :1mana::symu::symb:
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature has ":symub:: This creature gets +1/+0 and is unblockable until end of turn. Activate this ability only once per turn.
Whenever enchanted creature deals combat damage to a player, draw a card.
Version 1.0
Phantom's Guile :1mana::symub::symub:
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature has ":symub:: This creature gets +1/+0 and is unblockable until end of turn. Activate this ability only once per turn.
Whenever enchanted creature deals combat damage to a player, draw a card.
I think all these cards are sneaky, yet straight forward. not too overpowered, yet good in either constructed and/or limited. I did consider adding an on Mindwright's abilitycost, making it "X is equal to targeted creature converted mana cost." , but felt life loss was not only more flavorful, but fit more with the set/s it is trying to be in.
I think it goes without saying, Dimir SHOULD have had a rare or uncounterable Counterspell, so i made it.
Sig By Rivenor
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Mindwright Æthersmith and Manipulate Momentum are both hot busted. Uncounterable Spelljack? At 2/3 the cost of the original? Reusable Mind Control on a stick? For the same CMC as Mind Control? Nope.
Phantom's Guile is non-interactive. I mean, at least Sleeper's Robe had a semblance of interactivity. As a Johnny, I dislike cards that create the combo for me. Why bother with the combat damage trigger if it's always going to connect? Just say, "At the beginning of your draw step, draw an additional card."
Mindwright Æthersmith and Manipulate Momentum are both hot busted. Uncounterable Spelljack? At 2/3 the cost of the original? Reusable Mind Control on a stick? For the same CMC as Mind Control? Nope.
Yeah, I kinda made the Counterspell out of spite, however you do have to cast the Jacked spell as Momentum resolves, so it did get toned down. I'm not opposed to making it counterable. As for Æthersmith, it's a turn slower, and more color intensive than a regular mind control. I think it's fair.
Phantom's Guile is non-interactive. I mean, at least Sleeper's Robe had a semblance of interactivity. As a Johnny, I dislike cards that create the combo for me. Why bother with the combat damage trigger if it's always going to connect? Just say, "At the beginning of your draw step, draw an additional card."
It's not always going to connect, you have to spend mana. If you play it turn three, then you have a choice, 4-drop or connect to draw a card. Giving that option means you won't always get that draw. You have to earn it. That's why it doesn't just cut to the card draw. I think your missing the idea of creature removal in Magic.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig By Rivenor
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Sig By Rivenor
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Flavour issues aside, you're probably better off having each player sacrifice a creature, then returning all other creature's to their owner's hand.
Haha, That's exactly what I thought as I made the card. I agree it's more flavorful than functional. I guess it would still be lonely to be the only one dying, I was going with dying all alone. I'll definitely consider rewording.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig By Rivenor
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
In a crossover with Theros in mind, I came up with this:
Deadly Alliance
Version 2.0
Deadly Alliance :2mana::symu::symb:
Enchantment
As ~ enters the battlefield, name a creature. Creature spells with that name can't be cast unless unless he or she pays life equal to that spells converted mana cost.
At the beginning of each players' upkeep, that player returns a creature he or she controls with the same name as the named card to it's owners hand.
Version 1.0
Deadly Alliance :2mana::symu::symb:
Enchantment
As ~ enters the battlefield, name a creature. Creature spells with that name can't be cast unless unless he or she pays life equal to that spells converted mana cost.
At the beginning of each end step, each player sacrifices all creatures the with the same name as the named card.
Sig By Rivenor
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Lies and SlanderUB
Instant (U)
Draw a card, then each player discards a card from his or her hand. "It's so much fun to see a rumor come back around." - Lazav
Is not counterburn my hastey chum. Is more like evil compact revelation, you may also look to a card like Clutch of the Undercity or perhaps to take the wind out of your sail completely undermineas well as many other examples of blue card + punishment UB has been known for for ages.
I really do not understand people on this forums excitement and enthusiasm to shoot people down. This card is so UB. It's so grindy and in the same sort of way it's value attacking creatures generate a clock and slow but decisive advantage, just in a much less committal way, which suits UB so much better than a lame attacking creature mechanic ever could.
It doesn't feel very black to me. I get that losing life supposedly makes it black, but it still feels like a Divination with a Bolt stapled to it, which is red.
It's more like cruel inspiration hon.
A red blue draw spell would probably have a big number and or do something more flashy and exciting. It'd very likely be an actual burn spell too, like the many draw + whatever or counter + whatever cards they already have that feel very different from this.
This attrition sort of play that opens your options while dialing the clock forward on your opponent is very UB. Not so incidental life loss appears a lot on black cards and blue black cards and UB is certainly the colour combination that wants mana open.
It's more like cruel inspiration hon.
A red blue draw spell would probably have a big number and or do something more flashy and exciting. It'd very likely be an actual burn spell too, like the many draw + whatever or counter + whatever cards they already have that feel very different from this.
This attrition sort of play that opens your options while dialing the clock forward on your opponent is very UB. Not so incidental life loss appears a lot on black cards and blue black cards and UB is certainly the colour combination that wants mana open.
Agreed.
@Metallix Red Does damage, black causes loss of life. Two different methods of changing life total. damage is much easier prevented. The rule is "Damage cause loss of life, but loss of life isn't necessarily damage."
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig By Rivenor
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
@Metallix Red Does damage, black causes loss of life. Two different methods of changing life total. damage is much easier prevented. The rule is "Damage cause loss of life, but loss of life isn't necessarily damage."
I understand that, as I noted. Regardless, though, this feels like it should be a U/R card, and deal damage instead.
I understand that, as I noted. Regardless, though, this feels like it should be a U/R card, and deal damage instead.
Okay, I guess what I don't understand is, why Is it because of the number 3? Because as pointed out before, Undermine, Clutch of the Undercity, and even Punish Ignorance (adds white for 3 life gain) all cause an opponent to lose 3 life. My only qualm is that it looks as though its an Uncommon, which makes it even more overpowered. I still think card draw and any method of life loss is too much. Maybe give an opponent the option to prevent the card draw by paying 2 - 3 life per card.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig By Rivenor
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Is not counterburn my hastey chum. Is more like evil compact revelation, you may also look to a card like Clutch of the Undercity or perhaps to take the wind out of your sail completely undermineas well as many other examples of blue card + punishment UB has been known for for ages.
Undermine and Clutch are poor, shortsighted designs, as is Countersquall. Undermine was Cancel before Cancel was ever green-lit. Similarly, Punish Ignorance is essentially Absorb with a surcharge of B. Why?
Because the other guy's life total is, for nearly all intents and purposes, inconsequential to a control deck--with the exception of counterburn. Once you've secured the board and dropped your finisher, it really shouldn't matter whether the other guy's at 3 or 30.
On the other hand, 'controllish effect + you gain life' spells such as the aforementioned Absorb and Sphinx's Revelation *are* sound, because unlike chipping away at the other guy's dome, the life gained can be consequential--adding up to priceless tempo for the control player.
Undermine and Clutch are poor, shortsighted designs, as is Countersquall. Undermine was Cancel before Cancel was ever green-lit. Similarly, Punish Ignorance is essentially Absorb with a surcharge of B. Why?
Because the other guy's life total is, for nearly all intents and purposes, inconsequential to a control deck--with the exception of counterburn. Once you've secured the board and dropped your finisher, it really shouldn't matter whether the other guy's at 3 or 30.
On the other hand, 'controllish effect + you gain life' spells such as the aforementioned Absorb and Sphinx's Revelation *are* sound, because unlike chipping away at the other guy's dome, the life gained can be consequential--adding up to priceless tempo for the control player.
As a control player, I agree that I don't even pay attention to their life total until it's time to finish.However, punish spells like these can rattle some opponents, since theyare concerned about their life total. If you can. cause a misplay, you can swing the game in your favor without doing anything else at all. Dissipate, Cancel, Undermine, Dissolve, the Counterspell was the intention, anything else is a bonus that, in some situations, could help.
The bottom line is this. It's life loss, not damage. Therefore, it's UB, not UR. It can go either way. This card was made with the words 'loses life' on it, so it's black, not red whether you like it or not.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig By Rivenor
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
The bottom line is this. It's life loss, not damage. Therefore, it's UB, not UR. It can go either way. This card was made with the words 'loses life' on it, so it's black, not red whether you like it or not.
Hence, why "controllish effect + opponent loses life" designs should be retired forever, instead opting for damaging the player instead. UR is flat-out better-equipped for this kind of strategy.
Hence, why "controllish effect + opponent loses life" designs should be retired forever, instead opting for damaging the player instead. UR is flat-out better-equipped for this kind of strategy.
That is the most opinionated comment I've seen since my first thread here. The two differences are that damage is easier to prevent, so it won't always work. The other is that it gives you the opportunity to build with other black cards easier, because its not red. If you don't like it, don't use it. People who do like it can use it. Retiring the effect because it's not damage is just short sighted. I hate things lik Craterhoof, and other things that make it seem more like EtBtG. I don't think it should be retired. I just ran Ghost Quarter and Essence Scatter. You adapt to the meta, not complain about what is out of your hands.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig By Rivenor
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Undermine and Clutch are poor, shortsighted designs, as is Countersquall. Undermine was Cancel before Cancel was ever green-lit. Similarly, Punish Ignorance is essentially Absorb with a surcharge of B. Why?
Because the other guy's life total is, for nearly all intents and purposes, inconsequential to a control deck--with the exception of counterburn. Once you've secured the board and dropped your finisher, it really shouldn't matter whether the other guy's at 3 or 30.
On the other hand, 'controllish effect + you gain life' spells such as the aforementioned Absorb and Sphinx's Revelation *are* sound, because unlike chipping away at the other guy's dome, the life gained can be consequential--adding up to priceless tempo for the control player.
Shadowcraft, I don't really see what gives you the license to call those cards poor or short-shighted I think what is poor or short sighted is everyone's narrow view of what is only the purview of red and aggressive decks.
I'm going to ask you to reiterate your criticism of the cards you bring up in your that first paragraph, I'm not really seeing the case that makes them irrelevant in there. Yes cancel is a card, I don't really care about that here. Stapling together 2 iconic effects is kinda lame, but only if they don't really have an angle you can work them together with. The only real argument I see from you in that last post is: "Hurting an opponent is not good in a control deck, control decks go long and win when they have insurmountable advantage". It's a fair point but I intend to address it. I think time is a big advantage that people discount when talking about control decks and it goes both ways.
You give me the impression that you didn't play during the time of Undermine's relevance, but I will tell you, life totals became relevant very quickly. I'll also tell you clutch of the undercity could have used some work, but I saw some use out of it transmuting for persecute in solar flare decks and it was pretty useful having that huge swing in tempo and life total from time to time.
You'll also notice a lot of the difference between UB and UW control decks are that UB tends to be constantly trying to grind out advantages via incriment, and with the usual lack of a wrath of god type spell, it was free to try to resolve more small creatures it thought it might try to put some pressure with or accrue value. From a lot of that groundwork more modern concepts of tempo decks came. You were the pressure but also were manipulating your opponents turn in order to keep them from grabbing the reigns and developing their own position. UB decks tend to either make sure they have more cards than you and win through great 1:1 trades while ensuring they are clicking down your clock (which may very well be creating more of a discrepancy of cards) or they were more or less looking for some sort of combo / lock sort of win, but also after they've established a big advantage in # of cards. I guess planeswalkers are trying to take this game out of the hands of the spell focused or dork focused control deck, but the wizards seem to think they don't want to be putting walkers in charge of everything these days.
In an effort to solidify this identity for blue black, they've focused on the "control with cutesy attacking creatures" route and the "I like the graveyard too much" route, which sorta muddy the brand. Things like shadowmage and tog are sweet UB cards but fixating on them left UB crammed full of dumb creatures. Counterspells and removal are very very much tempo plays at the end of the day, you don't play counters or removal that cost more than your targets, you want to be playing those extra cards you have accrued above your opponent, you want to be making more of your turns. The problem with draw spells is that they are huge huge sinks of time from a board and tempo position, but one that causes life loss isn't. UB deck not only wants to keep you from playing your spell, it wants to tell you that you don't have very much more time to figure this out. A UB deck wants to make you feel like you are circling the bowl. I hope I'm explaining this properly. Undermine and it's ilk make a great backbone because it wastes your opponents time mana wise, but also tells them they don't have all that much time left.
Your complaint about this sort of card seems sort of personal and I'm trying to figure out where it is founded. Wizards clearly likes this sort of dynamic. They haven't been serving it really well with their dumb lazavs and their mill subthemes and their UB mechanics that turn spells into creature enchantments, but you can clearly see the inkling in their eyes. You think that stapling card advantage to life loss on a UB card is a bad idea or unflavorful, we've already shown you as much of your beloved precedence as anyone can ask for. You think it's just a mistake and wrong minded? I hope I've done a good enough job explaining. I know it's not as powerful as one might like, but 3 life and 2 cards at end of turn is a pretty big deal if there was a deck to play this. Just imagine some awful little two drop of flash evasive creature pecking away while stuff like that is being cast. Like think about the new Dimir 4/4 bob for everyone! He's all about making tempo trades at 1:1 clocking your oponent while they sit and spin, making sure you don't ever run out of those profitable trades always cutting into the time they have left.
Here try this one on for size: Does this feel UB to you?
AvoidanceUB
Instant (U)
Return target spell or creature to it's owner's hand. You may have it's controller lose 2 life.
That may not necessarily be a control card, but it probably can be, and it's really really certainly a UB card. You could even remove the creature clause and it would be a really solid UB card.
RE: UR IS DA BETTA PRESSURE + CONTROL STUFF comments
This is like, simply not true. Red has tonnes of great tempoy sorta plays, and UWR has sorta taken the new mantle for that sort of thing in a lot of formats, but it's not really an essential aspect of it's character, and at the end of the day, the red and blue aspects of those decks just don't get along very well. Red just loves to burn itself out. Blue can help refresh it, but red isn't really doing it's thing. It also suffers because a red spell needs to be comitted to one job. It can't kill you and also keep the creature you played from killing my blue mage. This is something that makes white so essential in these decks, gaining a little life or having reset buttons that don't cost you life keep those decks functioning. Counterburn... I can't even remember a format where that is a real deck. Izzetron? But that was just a big abusive tapout ramp deck with a couple blazes and the odd XU counterspell. Compare that to the sort of deck that would be happy for you to play a spell on your turn so it can undermine it, not play a spell on your turn, so it can play a venser or a clique against you, or play a card like this one you are criticizing that might find them another remand or some other cheap way to remove relevant plays like doomblade or duress or a card like bitterblossom or finkle that will leave you open to keep them off their strong plays while you keep them circling the bowl. UB cards work multiple angles or let you manage resources better than the enemy. UR would just want to either play tapout tempo like magnivore or lightning angel decks or play ancestral into burnspells to kill you which is totally just another way of being super committed.
Nate + Metal:
Thanks for kinda getting it. I think this guy doesn't get that as long as he's aiming his bolts at creatures he's not getting to be aggressive with them, and so red isn't all that much better equipped. I guess there is something to be said for chaining electrolyze and prophetic bolt forever but as long as you are playing counterspells, you aren't playing burn spells or aggressive creatures I mean, when your are playing counters, you tend to want a lot of them, when you are playing burn and aggressive guys, you tend to want a lot of those too right? I guess you can make sure you see extra cards so you have a lot of both, but then think of all the time you are sitting on it's rare there's a happy medium. I also think that a lot of people have trouble seeing where a control deck is also the aggro deck in many matchups, or creates opportunities to be aggressive, despite all the UWR flash decks and faeries you all must have been though.
UR Decks are sad because they lack a core. I think storm and spells matter were supposed to change that, but it's all degenerate combo vs tempo in the cool formats anyway.
Shadowcraft, I don't really see what gives you the license to call those cards poor or short-shighted I think what is poor or short sighted is everyone's narrow view of what is only the purview of red and aggressive decks.
I'm going to ask you to reiterate your criticism of the cards you bring up in your that first paragraph, I'm not really seeing the case that makes them irrelevant in there. Yes cancel is a card, I don't really care about that here. Stapling together 2 iconic effects is kinda lame, but only if they don't really have an angle you can work them together with. The only real argument I see from you in that last post is: "Hurting an opponent is not good in a control deck, control decks go long and win when they have insurmountable advantage". It's a fair point but I intend to address it. I think time is a big advantage that people discount when talking about control decks and it goes both ways.
You give me the impression that you didn't play during the time of Undermine's relevance, but I will tell you, life totals became relevant very quickly. I'll also tell you clutch of the undercity could have used some work, but I saw some use out of it transmuting for persecute in solar flare decks and it was pretty useful having that huge swing in tempo and life total from time to time.
You'll also notice a lot of the difference between UB and UW control decks are that UB tends to be constantly trying to grind out advantages via incriment, and with the usual lack of a wrath of god type spell, it was free to try to resolve more small creatures it thought it might try to put some pressure with or accrue value. From a lot of that groundwork more modern concepts of tempo decks came. You were the pressure but also were manipulating your opponents turn in order to keep them from grabbing the reigns and developing their own position. UB decks tend to either make sure they have more cards than you and win through great 1:1 trades while ensuring they are clicking down your clock (which may very well be creating more of a discrepancy of cards) or they were more or less looking for some sort of combo / lock sort of win, but also after they've established a big advantage in # of cards. I guess planeswalkers are trying to take this game out of the hands of the spell focused or dork focused control deck, but the wizards seem to think they don't want to be putting walkers in charge of everything these days.
In an effort to solidify this identity for blue black, they've focused on the "control with cutesy attacking creatures" route and the "I like the graveyard too much" route, which sorta muddy the brand. Things like shadowmage and tog are sweet UB cards but fixating on them left UB crammed full of dumb creatures. Counterspells and removal are very very much tempo plays at the end of the day, you don't play counters or removal that cost more than your targets, you want to be playing those extra cards you have accrued above your opponent, you want to be making more of your turns. The problem with draw spells is that they are huge huge sinks of time from a board and tempo position, but one that causes life loss isn't. UB deck not only wants to keep you from playing your spell, it wants to tell you that you don't have very much more time to figure this out. A UB deck wants to make you feel like you are circling the bowl. I hope I'm explaining this properly. Undermine and it's ilk make a great backbone because it wastes your opponents time mana wise, but also tells them they don't have all that much time left.
Your complaint about this sort of card seems sort of personal and I'm trying to figure out where it is founded. Wizards clearly likes this sort of dynamic. They haven't been serving it really well with their dumb lazavs and their mill subthemes and their UB mechanics that turn spells into creature enchantments, but you can clearly see the inkling in their eyes. You think that stapling card advantage to life loss on a UB card is a bad idea or unflavorful, we've already shown you as much of your beloved precedence as anyone can ask for. You think it's just a mistake and wrong minded? I hope I've done a good enough job explaining. I know it's not as powerful as one might like, but 3 life and 2 cards at end of turn is a pretty big deal if there was a deck to play this. Just imagine some awful little two drop of flash evasive creature pecking away while stuff like that is being cast. Like think about the new Dimir 4/4 bob for everyone! He's all about making tempo trades at 1:1 clocking your oponent while they sit and spin, making sure you don't ever run out of those profitable trades always cutting into the time they have left.
Here try this one on for size: Does this feel UB to you?
AvoidanceUB
Instant (U)
Return target spell or creature to it's owner's hand. You may have it's controller lose 2 life.
That may not necessarily be a control card, but it probably can be, and it's really really certainly a UB card. You could even remove the creature clause and it would be a really solid UB card.
RE: UR IS DA BETTA PRESSURE + CONTROL STUFF comments
This is like, simply not true. Red has tonnes of great tempoy sorta plays, and UWR has sorta taken the new mantle for that sort of thing in a lot of formats, but it's not really an essential aspect of it's character, and at the end of the day, the red and blue aspects of those decks just don't get along very well. Red just loves to burn itself out. Blue can help refresh it, but red isn't really doing it's thing. It also suffers because a red spell needs to be comitted to one job. It can't kill you and also keep the creature you played from killing my blue mage. This is something that makes white so essential in these decks, gaining a little life or having reset buttons that don't cost you life keep those decks functioning. Counterburn... I can't even remember a format where that is a real deck. Izzetron? But that was just a big abusive tapout ramp deck with a couple blazes and the odd XU counterspell. Compare that to the sort of deck that would be happy for you to play a spell on your turn so it can undermine it, not play a spell on your turn, so it can play a venser or a clique against you, or play a card like this one you are criticizing that might find them another remand or some other cheap way to remove relevant plays like doomblade or duress or a card like bitterblossom or finkle that will leave you open to keep them off their strong plays while you keep them circling the bowl. UB cards work multiple angles or let you manage resources better than the enemy. UR would just want to either play tapout tempo like magnivore or lightning angel decks or play ancestral into burnspells to kill you which is totally just another way of being super committed.
Nate + Metal:
Thanks for kinda getting it. I think this guy doesn't get that as long as he's aiming his bolts at creatures he's not getting to be aggressive with them, and so red isn't all that much better equipped. I guess there is something to be said for chaining electrolyze and prophetic bolt forever but as long as you are playing counterspells, you aren't playing burn spells or aggressive creatures I mean, when your are playing counters, you tend to want a lot of them, when you are playing burn and aggressive guys, you tend to want a lot of those too right? I guess you can make sure you see extra cards so you have a lot of both, but then think of all the time you are sitting on it's rare there's a happy medium. I also think that a lot of people have trouble seeing where a control deck is also the aggro deck in many matchups, or creates opportunities to be aggressive, despite all the UWR flash decks and faeries you all must have been though.
UR Decks are sad because they lack a core. I think storm and spells matter were supposed to change that, but it's all degenerate combo vs tempo in the cool formats anyway.
Very well said, sir. Very well said. Avoidance is an absolutely wonderful card. I'm mad now because it's not real. Not yet anyway.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig By Rivenor
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
A couple new Theros block cards. I know for a fact they may be OP, but more for flavor. Any pointers on making them closer to something printable is welcomed and appreciated:
Forsaken
:2mana::symu::symb::symb:
Sorcery (R)
Choose a color. Each Player loses life equal to their devotion to the chosen color.
...And that day, the Gods turned their backs on us all.
Epiphany from Phenax
:4mana::symu::symb:
Instant (R)
Target player loses life and draws cards each equal to your devotion to black.
I could also change Forsaken to a sac creature instead of life loss. I just think it's a little much, as it's effectively a boardwipe, sac permanent would just be too much.
Sig By Rivenor
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
My biggest problem with dimir in RTR was it's flavor. Dimir was supposed to be the guild of spies and intelligence and that flavor never really came through to me on the cards. I was expecting things like...
Sabotage UB
sorcery
Cipher
look at target player's hand, you may choose a card from it. If you do, that player discards that card then draws a card.
Continuing with this connection of dimir and intelligence, dimir shouldn't have drawn cards often. Dimir should be all about virtual card advantage. It should be about using intelligence to more effectively deploy it's resources. It should have impulse'd cards rather than drawn them. Something simple which would have helped dimir greatly...(may be inappropriately costed)
Something Owl 1U
creature - bird
flying
when ~ enters the battlefield, look at the top two cards of your library, put one into your hand and the rest into your graveyard/on the bottom of your library
1/1
Dimir cards (at least for ravnica) should be about intelligence and having more information than opponents, and I just never saw that. What other cards could have been made to satisfy the spy-like nature of dimir.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
Shadowcraft, I don't really see what gives you the license to call those cards poor or short-shighted I think what is poor or short sighted is everyone's narrow view of what is only the purview of red and aggressive decks.
I'm going to ask you to reiterate your criticism of the cards you bring up in your that first paragraph, I'm not really seeing the case that makes them irrelevant in there. Yes cancel is a card, I don't really care about that here. Stapling together 2 iconic effects is kinda lame, but only if they don't really have an angle you can work them together with. The only real argument I see from you in that last post is: "Hurting an opponent is not good in a control deck, control decks go long and win when they have insurmountable advantage". It's a fair point but I intend to address it. I think time is a big advantage that people discount when talking about control decks and it goes both ways.
You give me the impression that you didn't play during the time of Undermine's relevance, but I will tell you, life totals became relevant very quickly. I'll also tell you clutch of the undercity could have used some work, but I saw some use out of it transmuting for persecute in solar flare decks and it was pretty useful having that huge swing in tempo and life total from time to time.
You'll also notice a lot of the difference between UB and UW control decks are that UB tends to be constantly trying to grind out advantages via incriment, and with the usual lack of a wrath of god type spell, it was free to try to resolve more small creatures it thought it might try to put some pressure with or accrue value. From a lot of that groundwork more modern concepts of tempo decks came. You were the pressure but also were manipulating your opponents turn in order to keep them from grabbing the reigns and developing their own position. UB decks tend to either make sure they have more cards than you and win through great 1:1 trades while ensuring they are clicking down your clock (which may very well be creating more of a discrepancy of cards) or they were more or less looking for some sort of combo / lock sort of win, but also after they've established a big advantage in # of cards. I guess planeswalkers are trying to take this game out of the hands of the spell focused or dork focused control deck, but the wizards seem to think they don't want to be putting walkers in charge of everything these days.
In an effort to solidify this identity for blue black, they've focused on the "control with cutesy attacking creatures" route and the "I like the graveyard too much" route, which sorta muddy the brand. Things like shadowmage and tog are sweet UB cards but fixating on them left UB crammed full of dumb creatures. Counterspells and removal are very very much tempo plays at the end of the day, you don't play counters or removal that cost more than your targets, you want to be playing those extra cards you have accrued above your opponent, you want to be making more of your turns. The problem with draw spells is that they are huge huge sinks of time from a board and tempo position, but one that causes life loss isn't. UB deck not only wants to keep you from playing your spell, it wants to tell you that you don't have very much more time to figure this out. A UB deck wants to make you feel like you are circling the bowl. I hope I'm explaining this properly. Undermine and it's ilk make a great backbone because it wastes your opponents time mana wise, but also tells them they don't have all that much time left.
Your complaint about this sort of card seems sort of personal and I'm trying to figure out where it is founded. Wizards clearly likes this sort of dynamic. They haven't been serving it really well with their dumb lazavs and their mill subthemes and their UB mechanics that turn spells into creature enchantments, but you can clearly see the inkling in their eyes. You think that stapling card advantage to life loss on a UB card is a bad idea or unflavorful, we've already shown you as much of your beloved precedence as anyone can ask for. You think it's just a mistake and wrong minded? I hope I've done a good enough job explaining. I know it's not as powerful as one might like, but 3 life and 2 cards at end of turn is a pretty big deal if there was a deck to play this. Just imagine some awful little two drop of flash evasive creature pecking away while stuff like that is being cast. Like think about the new Dimir 4/4 bob for everyone! He's all about making tempo trades at 1:1 clocking your oponent while they sit and spin, making sure you don't ever run out of those profitable trades always cutting into the time they have left.
Here try this one on for size: Does this feel UB to you?
AvoidanceUB
Instant (U)
Return target spell or creature to it's owner's hand. You may have it's controller lose 2 life.
That may not necessarily be a control card, but it probably can be, and it's really really certainly a UB card. You could even remove the creature clause and it would be a really solid UB card.
RE: UR IS DA BETTA PRESSURE + CONTROL STUFF comments
This is like, simply not true. Red has tonnes of great tempoy sorta plays, and UWR has sorta taken the new mantle for that sort of thing in a lot of formats, but it's not really an essential aspect of it's character, and at the end of the day, the red and blue aspects of those decks just don't get along very well. Red just loves to burn itself out. Blue can help refresh it, but red isn't really doing it's thing. It also suffers because a red spell needs to be comitted to one job. It can't kill you and also keep the creature you played from killing my blue mage. This is something that makes white so essential in these decks, gaining a little life or having reset buttons that don't cost you life keep those decks functioning. Counterburn... I can't even remember a format where that is a real deck. Izzetron? But that was just a big abusive tapout ramp deck with a couple blazes and the odd XU counterspell. Compare that to the sort of deck that would be happy for you to play a spell on your turn so it can undermine it, not play a spell on your turn, so it can play a venser or a clique against you, or play a card like this one you are criticizing that might find them another remand or some other cheap way to remove relevant plays like doomblade or duress or a card like bitterblossom or finkle that will leave you open to keep them off their strong plays while you keep them circling the bowl. UB cards work multiple angles or let you manage resources better than the enemy. UR would just want to either play tapout tempo like magnivore or lightning angel decks or play ancestral into burnspells to kill you which is totally just another way of being super committed.
Nate + Metal:
Thanks for kinda getting it. I think this guy doesn't get that as long as he's aiming his bolts at creatures he's not getting to be aggressive with them, and so red isn't all that much better equipped. I guess there is something to be said for chaining electrolyze and prophetic bolt forever but as long as you are playing counterspells, you aren't playing burn spells or aggressive creatures I mean, when your are playing counters, you tend to want a lot of them, when you are playing burn and aggressive guys, you tend to want a lot of those too right? I guess you can make sure you see extra cards so you have a lot of both, but then think of all the time you are sitting on it's rare there's a happy medium. I also think that a lot of people have trouble seeing where a control deck is also the aggro deck in many matchups, or creates opportunities to be aggressive, despite all the UWR flash decks and faeries you all must have been though.
UR Decks are sad because they lack a core. I think storm and spells matter were supposed to change that, but it's all degenerate combo vs tempo in the cool formats anyway.
When WUR Control was a thing in standard (right after gatecrash) how many matches were decided by sneaking searing spears!? And that happened in the most life gain friendly format of all times !
Burn are GREAT in control. They are the best removal for low cmc creatures (which makes it good vs. aggro) and they are a alternative win con. A single searing spear or war leader helix means nothing vs. 20 life total but in a control mirror the one with red is bound to draw enough burn to win, forcing the opponent to go out of the stale and try to counter or gain life back or be pressured to play his finisher.
UR was never a thing not because burn is not good for control but because red doesn't have good enough sweepers. Control needs sweepers, period.
The complaint about those life loss UB cards comes from the fact that there are never a critical mass of life loss cards to make it relevant. Unlike red burn were with your tipical 8 low cmc removal spells you can also do 20 damage, ub decks never managed to win that way. And WotC ensures that's true because casting life loss spells to win would undermine red's indentity and further blur red and black.
I agree those effects would be a lot more interesting in the light of control-aggro decks were life loss complement creature damage. But let's be real, UB never ever managed to pull that archtype forward.
Seen cards like Dimir Charm and Duskmantle Overseer I'm pretty sure part of WotC believes aggro-control is part of UB identity but they never push it strong enough to be a real deck.
Mindwright Æthersmith
Mindwright Æthersmith :3mana::symu::symb:
Creature - Human Wizard Rogue
:symu::symb:, :symtap:: Exile target creature, then return it to the battlefield under your control at the beginning of the next End step. You lose life equal to it's power.
So glad you could join me, now get to work.
2/4
Manipulate Momentum
Manipulate Momentum :1mana::symu::symu::symb::symb:
Instant
Counter target spell. If it is countered this way, exile it. You may cast a copy of the spell exiled with Manipulate Momentum without paying it's mana cost.
Version 1.0
Manipulate Momentum :1mana::symu::symu::symb:
Instant
Manipulate Momentum can't be countered.
Counter target spell. If it is countered this way, exile it. You may cast a copy of the spell exiled with Manipulate Momentum without paying it's mana cost.
Phantom's Guile
Phantom's Guile :1mana::symu::symb:
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature has ":symub:: This creature gets +1/+0 and is unblockable until end of turn. Activate this ability only once per turn.
Whenever enchanted creature deals combat damage to a player, draw a card.
Version 1.0
Phantom's Guile :1mana::symub::symub:
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature has ":symub:: This creature gets +1/+0 and is unblockable until end of turn. Activate this ability only once per turn.
Whenever enchanted creature deals combat damage to a player, draw a card.
I think all these cards are sneaky, yet straight forward. not too overpowered, yet good in either constructed and/or limited. I did consider adding an on Mindwright's abilitycost, making it "X is equal to targeted creature converted mana cost." , but felt life loss was not only more flavorful, but fit more with the set/s it is trying to be in.
I think it goes without saying, Dimir SHOULD have had a rare or uncounterable Counterspell, so i made it.
I like a Curiosity variant better than a crappy Lobotomyvariant.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Manipulate Momentum is surely undercosted.
Phantom's Guile needs to be gold rather than hybrid.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Phantom's Guile is non-interactive. I mean, at least Sleeper's Robe had a semblance of interactivity. As a Johnny, I dislike cards that create the combo for me. Why bother with the combat damage trigger if it's always going to connect? Just say, "At the beginning of your draw step, draw an additional card."
Thank you. It's my favorite.
I had a pretty good feeling. probably make it or and :symu::symu::symb::symb:
I tried that before i posted it, but there's nothing about it, even in part, that is ONLY blue or ONLY black. It's all either, imo.
Yeah, I kinda made the Counterspell out of spite, however you do have to cast the Jacked spell as Momentum resolves, so it did get toned down. I'm not opposed to making it counterable. As for Æthersmith, it's a turn slower, and more color intensive than a regular mind control. I think it's fair.
It's not always going to connect, you have to spend mana. If you play it turn three, then you have a choice, 4-drop or connect to draw a card. Giving that option means you won't always get that draw. You have to earn it. That's why it doesn't just cut to the card draw. I think your missing the idea of creature removal in Magic.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Lonely Death
Lonely Death :4mana::symu::symb:
Sorcery
Each player sacrifices a creature, then returns the rest he or she controls to their owners hand.
Lonely Death :4mana::symu::symb:
Sorcery
Each player chooses a creature, then returns the rest to thier owner's hands. Destroy all creatures.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Flavour issues aside, you're probably better off having each player sacrifice a creature, then returning all other creature's to their owner's hand.
Haha, That's exactly what I thought as I made the card. I agree it's more flavorful than functional. I guess it would still be lonely to be the only one dying, I was going with dying all alone. I'll definitely consider rewording.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Deadly Alliance
Version 2.0
Enchantment
As ~ enters the battlefield, name a creature. Creature spells with that name can't be cast unless unless he or she pays life equal to that spells converted mana cost.
At the beginning of each players' upkeep, that player returns a creature he or she controls with the same name as the named card to it's owners hand.
Version 1.0
Deadly Alliance :2mana::symu::symb:
Enchantment
As ~ enters the battlefield, name a creature. Creature spells with that name can't be cast unless unless he or she pays life equal to that spells converted mana cost.
At the beginning of each end step, each player sacrifices all creatures the with the same name as the named card.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Instant (U)
Draw 2 cartes.
Target opponent loses 3 life.
Lies and Slander UB
Instant (U)
Draw a card, then each player discards a card from his or her hand.
"It's so much fun to see a rumor come back around." - Lazav
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
I really do not understand people on this forums excitement and enthusiasm to shoot people down. This card is so UB. It's so grindy and in the same sort of way it's value attacking creatures generate a clock and slow but decisive advantage, just in a much less committal way, which suits UB so much better than a lame attacking creature mechanic ever could.
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube
A red blue draw spell would probably have a big number and or do something more flashy and exciting. It'd very likely be an actual burn spell too, like the many draw + whatever or counter + whatever cards they already have that feel very different from this.
This attrition sort of play that opens your options while dialing the clock forward on your opponent is very UB. Not so incidental life loss appears a lot on black cards and blue black cards and UB is certainly the colour combination that wants mana open.
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
Agreed.
@Metallix Red Does damage, black causes loss of life. Two different methods of changing life total. damage is much easier prevented. The rule is "Damage cause loss of life, but loss of life isn't necessarily damage."
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
I understand that, as I noted. Regardless, though, this feels like it should be a U/R card, and deal damage instead.
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube
Okay, I guess what I don't understand is, why Is it because of the number 3? Because as pointed out before, Undermine, Clutch of the Undercity, and even Punish Ignorance (adds white for 3 life gain) all cause an opponent to lose 3 life. My only qualm is that it looks as though its an Uncommon, which makes it even more overpowered. I still think card draw and any method of life loss is too much. Maybe give an opponent the option to prevent the card draw by paying 2 - 3 life per card.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Because the other guy's life total is, for nearly all intents and purposes, inconsequential to a control deck--with the exception of counterburn. Once you've secured the board and dropped your finisher, it really shouldn't matter whether the other guy's at 3 or 30.
On the other hand, 'controllish effect + you gain life' spells such as the aforementioned Absorb and Sphinx's Revelation *are* sound, because unlike chipping away at the other guy's dome, the life gained can be consequential--adding up to priceless tempo for the control player.
As a control player, I agree that I don't even pay attention to their life total until it's time to finish.However, punish spells like these can rattle some opponents, since they are concerned about their life total. If you can. cause a misplay, you can swing the game in your favor without doing anything else at all. Dissipate, Cancel, Undermine, Dissolve, the Counterspell was the intention, anything else is a bonus that, in some situations, could help.
The bottom line is this. It's life loss, not damage. Therefore, it's UB, not UR. It can go either way. This card was made with the words 'loses life' on it, so it's black, not red whether you like it or not.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
That is the most opinionated comment I've seen since my first thread here. The two differences are that damage is easier to prevent, so it won't always work. The other is that it gives you the opportunity to build with other black cards easier, because its not red. If you don't like it, don't use it. People who do like it can use it. Retiring the effect because it's not damage is just short sighted. I hate things lik Craterhoof, and other things that make it seem more like EtBtG. I don't think it should be retired. I just ran Ghost Quarter and Essence Scatter. You adapt to the meta, not complain about what is out of your hands.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Shadowcraft, I don't really see what gives you the license to call those cards poor or short-shighted I think what is poor or short sighted is everyone's narrow view of what is only the purview of red and aggressive decks.
I'm going to ask you to reiterate your criticism of the cards you bring up in your that first paragraph, I'm not really seeing the case that makes them irrelevant in there. Yes cancel is a card, I don't really care about that here. Stapling together 2 iconic effects is kinda lame, but only if they don't really have an angle you can work them together with. The only real argument I see from you in that last post is: "Hurting an opponent is not good in a control deck, control decks go long and win when they have insurmountable advantage". It's a fair point but I intend to address it. I think time is a big advantage that people discount when talking about control decks and it goes both ways.
You give me the impression that you didn't play during the time of Undermine's relevance, but I will tell you, life totals became relevant very quickly. I'll also tell you clutch of the undercity could have used some work, but I saw some use out of it transmuting for persecute in solar flare decks and it was pretty useful having that huge swing in tempo and life total from time to time.
You'll also notice a lot of the difference between UB and UW control decks are that UB tends to be constantly trying to grind out advantages via incriment, and with the usual lack of a wrath of god type spell, it was free to try to resolve more small creatures it thought it might try to put some pressure with or accrue value. From a lot of that groundwork more modern concepts of tempo decks came. You were the pressure but also were manipulating your opponents turn in order to keep them from grabbing the reigns and developing their own position. UB decks tend to either make sure they have more cards than you and win through great 1:1 trades while ensuring they are clicking down your clock (which may very well be creating more of a discrepancy of cards) or they were more or less looking for some sort of combo / lock sort of win, but also after they've established a big advantage in # of cards. I guess planeswalkers are trying to take this game out of the hands of the spell focused or dork focused control deck, but the wizards seem to think they don't want to be putting walkers in charge of everything these days.
In an effort to solidify this identity for blue black, they've focused on the "control with cutesy attacking creatures" route and the "I like the graveyard too much" route, which sorta muddy the brand. Things like shadowmage and tog are sweet UB cards but fixating on them left UB crammed full of dumb creatures. Counterspells and removal are very very much tempo plays at the end of the day, you don't play counters or removal that cost more than your targets, you want to be playing those extra cards you have accrued above your opponent, you want to be making more of your turns. The problem with draw spells is that they are huge huge sinks of time from a board and tempo position, but one that causes life loss isn't. UB deck not only wants to keep you from playing your spell, it wants to tell you that you don't have very much more time to figure this out. A UB deck wants to make you feel like you are circling the bowl. I hope I'm explaining this properly. Undermine and it's ilk make a great backbone because it wastes your opponents time mana wise, but also tells them they don't have all that much time left.
Your complaint about this sort of card seems sort of personal and I'm trying to figure out where it is founded. Wizards clearly likes this sort of dynamic. They haven't been serving it really well with their dumb lazavs and their mill subthemes and their UB mechanics that turn spells into creature enchantments, but you can clearly see the inkling in their eyes. You think that stapling card advantage to life loss on a UB card is a bad idea or unflavorful, we've already shown you as much of your beloved precedence as anyone can ask for. You think it's just a mistake and wrong minded? I hope I've done a good enough job explaining. I know it's not as powerful as one might like, but 3 life and 2 cards at end of turn is a pretty big deal if there was a deck to play this. Just imagine some awful little two drop of flash evasive creature pecking away while stuff like that is being cast. Like think about the new Dimir 4/4 bob for everyone! He's all about making tempo trades at 1:1 clocking your oponent while they sit and spin, making sure you don't ever run out of those profitable trades always cutting into the time they have left.
Here try this one on for size: Does this feel UB to you?
Avoidance UB
Instant (U)
Return target spell or creature to it's owner's hand. You may have it's controller lose 2 life.
That may not necessarily be a control card, but it probably can be, and it's really really certainly a UB card. You could even remove the creature clause and it would be a really solid UB card.
RE: UR IS DA BETTA PRESSURE + CONTROL STUFF comments
This is like, simply not true. Red has tonnes of great tempoy sorta plays, and UWR has sorta taken the new mantle for that sort of thing in a lot of formats, but it's not really an essential aspect of it's character, and at the end of the day, the red and blue aspects of those decks just don't get along very well. Red just loves to burn itself out. Blue can help refresh it, but red isn't really doing it's thing. It also suffers because a red spell needs to be comitted to one job. It can't kill you and also keep the creature you played from killing my blue mage. This is something that makes white so essential in these decks, gaining a little life or having reset buttons that don't cost you life keep those decks functioning. Counterburn... I can't even remember a format where that is a real deck. Izzetron? But that was just a big abusive tapout ramp deck with a couple blazes and the odd XU counterspell. Compare that to the sort of deck that would be happy for you to play a spell on your turn so it can undermine it, not play a spell on your turn, so it can play a venser or a clique against you, or play a card like this one you are criticizing that might find them another remand or some other cheap way to remove relevant plays like doomblade or duress or a card like bitterblossom or finkle that will leave you open to keep them off their strong plays while you keep them circling the bowl. UB cards work multiple angles or let you manage resources better than the enemy. UR would just want to either play tapout tempo like magnivore or lightning angel decks or play ancestral into burnspells to kill you which is totally just another way of being super committed.
Nate + Metal:
Thanks for kinda getting it. I think this guy doesn't get that as long as he's aiming his bolts at creatures he's not getting to be aggressive with them, and so red isn't all that much better equipped. I guess there is something to be said for chaining electrolyze and prophetic bolt forever but as long as you are playing counterspells, you aren't playing burn spells or aggressive creatures I mean, when your are playing counters, you tend to want a lot of them, when you are playing burn and aggressive guys, you tend to want a lot of those too right? I guess you can make sure you see extra cards so you have a lot of both, but then think of all the time you are sitting on it's rare there's a happy medium. I also think that a lot of people have trouble seeing where a control deck is also the aggro deck in many matchups, or creates opportunities to be aggressive, despite all the UWR flash decks and faeries you all must have been though.
UR Decks are sad because they lack a core. I think storm and spells matter were supposed to change that, but it's all degenerate combo vs tempo in the cool formats anyway.
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
Very well said, sir. Very well said. Avoidance is an absolutely wonderful card. I'm mad now because it's not real. Not yet anyway.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Forsaken
:2mana::symu::symb::symb:
Sorcery (R)
Choose a color. Each Player loses life equal to their devotion to the chosen color.
...And that day, the Gods turned their backs on us all.
Epiphany from Phenax
:4mana::symu::symb:
Instant (R)
Target player loses life and draws cards each equal to your devotion to black.
I could also change Forsaken to a sac creature instead of life loss. I just think it's a little much, as it's effectively a boardwipe, sac permanent would just be too much.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Sabotage UB
sorcery
Cipher
look at target player's hand, you may choose a card from it. If you do, that player discards that card then draws a card.
Continuing with this connection of dimir and intelligence, dimir shouldn't have drawn cards often. Dimir should be all about virtual card advantage. It should be about using intelligence to more effectively deploy it's resources. It should have impulse'd cards rather than drawn them. Something simple which would have helped dimir greatly...(may be inappropriately costed)
Something Owl 1U
creature - bird
flying
when ~ enters the battlefield, look at the top two cards of your library, put one into your hand and the rest into your graveyard/on the bottom of your library
1/1
Dimir cards (at least for ravnica) should be about intelligence and having more information than opponents, and I just never saw that. What other cards could have been made to satisfy the spy-like nature of dimir.
- Manite
When WUR Control was a thing in standard (right after gatecrash) how many matches were decided by sneaking searing spears!? And that happened in the most life gain friendly format of all times !
Burn are GREAT in control. They are the best removal for low cmc creatures (which makes it good vs. aggro) and they are a alternative win con. A single searing spear or war leader helix means nothing vs. 20 life total but in a control mirror the one with red is bound to draw enough burn to win, forcing the opponent to go out of the stale and try to counter or gain life back or be pressured to play his finisher.
UR was never a thing not because burn is not good for control but because red doesn't have good enough sweepers. Control needs sweepers, period.
The complaint about those life loss UB cards comes from the fact that there are never a critical mass of life loss cards to make it relevant. Unlike red burn were with your tipical 8 low cmc removal spells you can also do 20 damage, ub decks never managed to win that way. And WotC ensures that's true because casting life loss spells to win would undermine red's indentity and further blur red and black.
I agree those effects would be a lot more interesting in the light of control-aggro decks were life loss complement creature damage. But let's be real, UB never ever managed to pull that archtype forward.
Seen cards like Dimir Charm and Duskmantle Overseer I'm pretty sure part of WotC believes aggro-control is part of UB identity but they never push it strong enough to be a real deck.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras