MTG Salvation

Has Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer met his match? Will this card replace him in aggro swarms, or just join the ranks as one of the 99?


EDIT: I've done some limited testing of the card with my deck and it works WONDERS as a commander. It's incredibly easy to take out a player in 2-3 swings. Another member said it best when they compared Anax and Cymede to a better version of Isamaru, Hound of Konda.

I like the card, but I don't think it measures up to Kadeen in multiplayer EDH. The problem lies in the subset of other cards they rely on, with Kadeen's artifacts just being a much more powerful and resilient presence to build around. Trying to keep a large force on the board for multiple turns and repeatedly target A+C with instants/sorceries is a lot to ask. You get wiped and you are left with a lot of work to do. You get wiped while playing Kadeen and there is a good chance you have the equipment and ramp in play to create a quick recovery.

OTOH I think A+C could be a very strong 1v1 general, where the explosive damage output could easily wipe one opponent out in a single attack phase.

As one of the 99 I think A+C is interesting but will ultimately be found wanting most of the time, as decks simply don't play enough stuff to trigger the ability regularly. Maybe in a Naya aggro build that centered on high impact creatures and pump spells?

The problem with Jor Kadeen has always been that he does rely on a firm artifact base, and after 1 game in any meta, it's very easy to adjust your deck to take out his artifacts, and the +3/+0 still leaves your boros weenies with a low toughness, i.e. easy removal

The new couple has the advantage that they don't need an array of artifacts, sure Sunforger will help a lot, but so will Seething Anger. They're cheaper, faster to drop, and they love weenies. I see them as over all slightly better than Jor Kadeen.

I'd see this as a solid include in the 99 of a Dega goblin deck.

Quote from CatParty

The new couple has the advantage that they don't need an array of artifacts, sure Sunforger will help a lot, but so will Seething Anger. They're cheaper, faster to drop, and they love weenies. I see them as over all slightly better than Jor Kadeen.

Although I understand your argument, after extensively play-testing Jor, I can tell you that the deck is still potent even without metalcraft. Most of the weenies are fantastic on their own (see ChilesIsAwesome's primer), so even a guy or two plus a sword is usually a significant amount of pressure. I don't see myself running the new duo over Jor or even Tajic in weenie Boros.

Quote from CatParty

The problem with Jor Kadeen has always been that he does rely on a firm artifact base, and after 1 game in any meta, it's very easy to adjust your deck to take out his artifacts, and the +3/+0 still leaves your boros weenies with a low toughness, i.e. easy removal

I guess that could be true in a small group, but my group is too diverse to really metagame like that. We all play some artifact removal, but mass artifact removal is often just too narrow or runs the risk of blowing up your own stuff.

Anax voltron could be interesting. you actually dont NEED other creatures on the field. Just Anax alone pumping itself and having first strike, vigilance, and trample is always useful. Sunforger in this deck is a must so u get as many spells out your deck as possible!

Anax ability requiring a cast of a spell that has to TARGET Anax is asking a lot out of your deck tho. Wish it said whenever you cast a spell, but prob be OP in standard

meh.

I find A+C to be underwhelming. Red and White just don't offer that much in the realm of effective, buff style, targetable spells. Key word: Effective.

What Red and White does offer is effective, control style, targetable spells. Key word Effective.

Difference is that you don't want to be targeting A+C with your burn/removal spells. (with the exception of Grapeshot, which is too narrow an application)

Jor rewards you for playing mana rocks and equipment.
A&C rewards you for playing auras and instant/sorcery tricks.

That's pretty much the sum of it, as I see it; Jor might cost 2 more mana, but he's a giant, set next A&C.

Edit: Though! There is something to be said for casting Flame Jab on A&C over and over.

Quote from Golden

As one of the 99 I think A+C is interesting but will ultimately be found wanting most of the time, as decks simply don't play enough stuff to trigger the ability regularly. Maybe in a Naya aggro build that centered on high impact creatures and pump spells?

As one of the 99 I'd use AC like a Boros Overrun; you don't need to pump the @$%&! out of your creatures, just give them trample on top of the pumps they already have. that only requires a single spell, not a Storm chain.

I think this guy may be the new best general for tribal soldiers. Outside of that, I think Jor Kadeen is probably superior.

Quote from Elvish Sniper

I think this guy may be the new best general for tribal soldiers. Outside of that, I think Jor Kadeen is probably superior.

But what good is a 2/2 soldier with trample?

Significant effort needs to be placed into your anthems before this 3 drop card sees effect.

I'm still not convinced...

The way to go with this deck i believe are auras/enchants.

Daybreak Coronet
Felidar Umbra
Madcap Skills
Nomad Mythmaker
Dual Casting
Bloodfire Infusion
Ajani's Chosen
Kor Spiritdancer
Elemental Mastery
Battle Mastery
Angelic Destiny
Three Dreams

Has more staying power, can make Anax indestructible, and Anax gets pumped for every aura u put on it that turn

Flickering ward would be excellent. Pump all your dudes for as much white mana as together got. With protection to boot.

Quote from simulacrum

The way to go with this deck i believe are auras/enchants.

Daybreak Coronet
Felidar Umbra
Madcap Skills
Nomad Mythmaker
Dual Casting
Bloodfire Infusion
Ajani's Chosen
Kor Spiritdancer
Elemental Mastery
Battle Mastery
Angelic Destiny
Three Dreams

Has more staying power, can make Anax indestructible, and Anax gets pumped for every aura u put on it that turn

I've always considered auras to be very danagerous in builds.

Step 1: You spend mana to cast...say...Angelic Destiny to your fancy new A+C

Step 2: Your opponent casts instant spot removal on A+C

Step 3: Your spell fizzles and you've lost 4 mana, precious card tempo AND A+C.


Not saying that'll happen every time.....just saying I'm very leery when it comes to playing enchantment aura's in any of my builds.

Do others feel the same way?

Quote from simulacrum

The way to go with this deck i believe are auras/enchants.

Daybreak Coronet
Felidar Umbra
Madcap Skills
Nomad Mythmaker
Dual Casting
Bloodfire Infusion
Ajani's Chosen
Kor Spiritdancer
Elemental Mastery
Battle Mastery
Angelic Destiny
Three Dreams

Those are 12 cards that will take away from playing good cards though. I think I would much rather fill those 12 slots with actual threats that aren't reliant on a weak 3/2.

I can see this being a fun general to play around with, but as far as being good? No way.

What do folks think about the following spells to use in an A&C deck?

• Shelter
  
• Psychotic Fury
  
• Guided Strike
  
• Balduvian Rage
  
• Angelic Destiny
  
• Flickering Ward
  
• Dragon Breath
  
• Unquestioned Authority
  
• Squee's Embrace
  
• Crown of Flames
  
• Spirit Loop
  
• Griffin Guide
  
• Bestial Fury
  
• Ward of Lights
  
• Pentarch Ward
  
• Mark of Fury
  
• Fiery Mantle
  
• Mantle of Leadership
  
• Flickerform

Quote from Galspanic

Those are 12 cards that will take away from playing good cards though. I think I would much rather fill those 12 slots with actual threats that aren't reliant on a weak 3/2.

I can see this being a fun general to play around with, but as far as being good? No way.

For your 13th card slot, don't run Annax lol

If u wanna run all your competitive boros staples, might as well use Aurelia, Gisela, or Jor. Wasn't expecting Annax to change edh tourney scene, just throwing ideas around

Yeah. I just don't see a single scenario where I see this card as a better option than a basic land in RW decks. If there was some RWU storm combo deck this would be a non-green combo enabler, but people are talking about this like it's a card for an aggro deck (understandably).

(Side note: The worst part about the Rumor Season for this block is going to be the EDH people loving every Legendary creature. We usually overreact to the 1-2 that each set gives us and so far 1/3 of the cards are legends. Kill me now :grumpy:)

Quote from ChimericPisces

What do folks think about the following spells to use in an A&C deck?

Not one of those is good on its own. So no. The one card that I can think of that is good is.... Boros Charm!

Quote from Galspanic

(Side note: The worst part about the Rumor Season for this block is going to be the EDH people loving every Legendary creature. We usually overreact to the 1-2 that each set gives us and so far 1/3 of the cards are legends. Kill me now :grumpy:)

I believe there was some sort of statement like there will be less legends in Theros than there were in Kamigawa.... which means there will be a ton of them....

Back on track though, I feel like Anax and Cymede is not great. The cards that are required to make anything work in the deck are not great. It is easy to stop, hard to do anything really impressive, and its strengths do not fit the color scheme well at all. Overall, its interesting but it should have been UWR to see any sort of EDH play. I think overall that it will be more likely run in casual 60 card decks that can splash blue and or green into the decks and run more impressive things. I think it will be hard to use anywhere though to be totally honest. As a playable commander, I give it like a 3.5/10 rating just because its interesting and different. Its however not very viable.

Quote from Galspanic

The worst part about the Rumor Season for this block is going to be the EDH people loving every Legendary creature. We usually overreact to the 1-2 that each set gives us and so far 1/3 of the cards are legends. Kill me now

We're going to overreact to and overanalyze every single legendary creature in Pseudo-Greece, and you're going stay with us the entire time. This is the closest we get to Kamigawa 2.0 (or Everything Is Legendary Block), so we're going to have so much fun.


So far, though, I'm more enthused about the new Commander products, especially if the other ones are on par with what we got shown, a cheap Grixis flyer that encourages top-of the library shenanigans before casting her, and a Jund dragon that lends itself easily to combos as well as being a decent beater on his own (after eating a Kobold or ten). Theros has plenty of time to offer us some decent Legendaries, though.

Quote from simulacrum

The way to go with this deck i believe are auras/enchants.

With no hexproof like Sigarda, Host of Herons, Uril, the Mist Stalker, or Geist of Saint Traft or the ability to mitigate the potential card disadvantage associated with Auras like Bruna, Light of Alabaster, I don't think so.

I feel like this guy could be more explosive then Jor, but Jor is more consistent and reliable. We'll see. I think the key with this guy is control or stax and winning with general damage. Play all of the double strike cards with a few stax cards and some token vommitting enchantments and you have a deck. Like others have said I don't think it offers enough to be good without some kind of control.

So for double strike cards make sure you have boros charm, Psychotic fury, assault strobe, battle mastery, cleaver riot, concerted effort, and double cleave,

The deck should be fun, but it won't be great. Well probably.

If I am looking at this guy for RW Stax I see all the awesome blue and black cards that would make this card almost okay and the Stax good... then I say, "**** it. I'm playing Ruhan or Kalia for 1 more mana!!"

Quote from Loozar402

With no hexproof like Sigarda, Host of Herons, Uril, the Mist Stalker, or Geist of Saint Traft or the ability to mitigate the potential card disadvantage associated with Auras like Bruna, Light of Alabaster, I don't think so.

Well, you could run Assemble the Legion Glory of Warfare Goblin Assault Conqueror's Pledge etc then Anax pumps wit targeting spells. But then we can say decks like Hazezon Tamar, Rhys the Redeemed, and Rith, the Awakener are much better suited for swarm style decks

I would love to hear wat ideas u have for Anax that aren't boros staples.