So with the anticipation of lots of aggressive red decks, and a lot of midrange decks with the rotation, I was thinking my pet deck Maze's End might be a contender. My main weakness last season was Acidic Slime in the Rites decks, and Rakdos's Return and Liliana of the Veil in Jund, with 2 of those leaving and one untested, I figured it might be worth a shot right now. I put together a list with a temporary sideboard. Let me know what you guys think!
I love this deck. I dont know how effective it will be but I love it!
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I feel like you should have 4 Urban Evolution. It draws and allows you to play more lands. I think a 4 of is best.
You could probably lose 1 Merciless Eviction. and take out something else to make room for the 4th Urban Evolution.
"BEHOLD MORTAL, AS I SUMMON THE MIGHT OF DIVINI-"
"oop, presto change-o! It's a duck now!"
"I...but...divine..."
"Nope"
"But it's a god!"
"No it's a duck. You have a duck now"
"*weeps silently*"
"quack quack!"
Cut the merciless, you will never get to 6 mana reliably if you do your better off just using maze's end. I would second Into the Wild. Swan song should be MD
I don't feel like the Merciless Eviction is all that bad, it does warrant testing though, I am mainly concerned with having the flexibility to deal with Elspeth, and random gods, as well as the normal creatures. it really just took Terminus ' slot from my previous build. I do reliably get to 10+ mana of course! I never miss a land drop usually lol... I've been playing a different version of this deck for months, but the Reanimator and Jund decks were too tough to beat with frequency. I was thinking of going to 3 Urban Evolution and cutting the singleton Sphinx's Revelation but when I played with Urban Evolution before it was too slow for me. Maybe I'll give it another shot.
I considered playing accelerants like Chromatic Lantern and Into the Wilds but I felt like they didn't actually buy me that many extra turns and often times I would end up dead because I couldn't fog/wrath. I do see the merit in their inclusion in certain lists though. I just like this one myself. Any ideas for the sideboard out there? I put no extra thought into it except for the 4 Swan Song which I feel is very solid here.
yeah I def want to run a Crackling Perimeter or two, I used to run 1 maindeck, but I never saw it often enough. it gives me an out against decks that I know have Pithing Needle in the board.
do we have a better card selection/draw spell than Omenspeaker? I'm really missing Think Twice
Post rotation I am thinking these changes (at least until the meta becomes defined)
-3 safe passage +3 Defend the hearth
-3 terminus +2 supreme verdict +1Aetherize, Now you may ask why Aetherize over a third Verdict, I really like the one of aetherize, against most of the lower mana aggro decks this in conjunction with fogs can slow them down more than long enough for you to go off with Maze's End. Also Boros Charm, Xathrid Necromancer and any other card used to dodge sweepers don't like this card. It does require people not to expect it (hence it being a one of) as a savvy player will play around it.
-4 Auger of bolas +4 of something, right now i'm hesitant to run 4 omenspeaker's and I may do some split between them and Saruli Gatekeepers or a split with one of those cards and some type of utility like the cards listed above for replacing atlas.
this is the deck I am bringing into the new standard.... My last seasons maze's end deck record was 11-1. things I learned from playing the deck are..
Sphinx revalation is not that good in this deck, as compared to other control decks
Urban evolution is not that good in this deck
crackling perimeter is good enough to run 4 of between the deck and SB
having a plain and an island in your deck lets you consistently Supreme verdict turn 4 when you open with 3 gates, and a gatecreeper vine.
Having atleast 3-4 Non gates in your deck helps you play your 4, 5, and 6 casting cost spells... on turns 4, 5, and 6. when you need to.
The great thing about Mazes end is that it just flat out beats so many decks... and in a midrangey to controlley metagame.... it can just wreck the field. the counterspells in the deck may get changed to just 4 syncopate, still testing negate, swan song in not good.
this is the deck I am bringing into the new standard.... My last seasons maze's end deck record was 11-1. things I learned from playing the deck are..
Sphinx revalation is not that good in this deck, as compared to other control decks
Urban evolution is not that good in this deck
crackling perimeter is good enough to run 4 of between the deck and SB
having a plain and an island in your deck lets you consistently Supreme verdict turn 4 when you open with 3 gates, and a gatecreeper vine.
Having atleast 3-4 Non gates in your deck helps you play your 4, 5, and 6 casting cost spells... on turns 4, 5, and 6. when you need to.
The great thing about Mazes end is that it just flat out beats so many decks... and in a midrangey to controlley metagame.... it can just wreck the field. the counterspells in the deck may get changed to just 4 syncopate, still testing negate, swan song in not good.
I highly recommend 4 riot control. I am not personally a fan of Merciless eviction especially when you are already running four sweepers main I think you could free up two extra slots with that. Eslpeth, Sun's Champion is an interesting choice, her +1 can be interesting especially with druids deliverance and I can see her -3 coming in handy as well. Her ult is not very good for us but then you can just go back and forth between her +1 and -3. I personally think that Crackling perimeter should have all four copies in the side as I have never found it to be very useful game one when very few decks main deck ways to disrupt maze's end. Saruli Gatekeepers feels very weak in the board to me as does Rakdos return. For gatekeeper your match vs aggro should be damn near 95% anyway and as for return, what is the logic? Bringing it in vs control and hoping they don't have a counter or that you have a counter to back it up? This deck has so few early targets for counter magic that they are more then likely going to end up holding on to counterspells. I also prefer Jace, Architect of thought over Jace, Memory adept. Being able to mill them for 10 is cool and not bad in a turbo fog shell where you can protect him but he feels win mroe on top of Maze's end, Architect provides card advantage and can act as a semi-fog vs smaller creatures.
Edit:
Originally Posted by Traelxy
Sphinx's Revelation is still a thing and so is the Angelic Post deck. I will be running Skullcrack in my SB in both my boros and RDW decks and judging on the lists posted in the RDW thread so will everyone else.
Yes, Skullcrack is a nightmare and is going to be even worse without witchbane orb that card became a lot scarier, you really have to play it a lot tighter vs it and try to stay above 13 life which means fogging more aggressively and if they get more then one it gets that much worse. Negate can help and so can Saruli Gatekeepers main deck but it is still a tough match-up, probably our worst one in my experience but not unwinnable. And every deck has a deck it is weak against that's no reason not to play it when it can do well vs so many other decks
[QUOTE=TalonXXX;/comments/12283293]I highly recommend 4 riot control. I am not personally a fan of Merciless eviction especially when you are already running four sweepers main I think you could free up two extra slots with that.
I think you can go 14 fogs 6 sweepers, or 16 fogs 4 sweepers. last season I ran 14 fog, 3 supreme verdict, 3 terminus. so this is just a meta-call but I agree
Eslpeth, Sun's Champion is an interesting choice, her +1 can be interesting especially with druids deliverance and I can see her -3 coming in handy as well. Her ult is not very good for us but then you can just go back and forth between her +1 and -3. I personally think that
I agree, she acts like a fog pretty much and a conditional wrath all built into one
Crackling perimeter should have all four copies in the side as I have never found it to be very useful game one when very few decks main deck ways to disrupt maze's end.
I ran 2 in my deck before and wish I was running 3, some players run as high as 4 in the main... 4 may be too much (but good setup for a budget build), they kill planeswalkers, and are basically a 2 mana spell that says I win when you get it down. and it gives you alternate win cons... (but this deck now has planeswalkers, so i went from 3 in testing down to 2. There are some games you will play where you just wont draw a maze's end at all, or you get Jace milled and lose a key gate. Also If you run into burning earth, Crackling perimeter gets around that
I used to run 2 gatekeepers in the main and 2 may find their way back in. Against RDW, their deck is so fast this is all you have sometimes to keep alive. Rakdos return just comes in vs control decks, just always seemed good to me, there could be something better there (thoughtseize?)
I also prefer Jace, Architect of thought over Jace, Memory adept. Being able to mill them for 10 is cool and not bad in a turbo fog shell where you can protect him but he feels win more on top of Maze's end, Architect provides card advantage and can act as a semi-fog vs smaller creatures.
I like Memory Adept for the same reason you like the AOT. Memory Adept is simply a personal Howling mine. He provides card advantage, and since think twice is no longer around this is a big help... But in this deck i am like 51/49 leaning towards memory adept, but could go either way depending on the field.
[QUOTE=TalonXXX;/comments/12283293]I highly recommend 4 riot control. I am not personally a fan of Merciless eviction especially when you are already running four sweepers main I think you could free up two extra slots with that.
I think you can go 14 fogs 6 sweepers, or 16 fogs 4 sweepers. last season I ran 14 fog, 3 supreme verdict, 3 terminus. so this is just a meta-call but I agree
Eslpeth, Sun's Champion is an interesting choice, her +1 can be interesting especially with druids deliverance and I can see her -3 coming in handy as well. Her ult is not very good for us but then you can just go back and forth between her +1 and -3. I personally think that
I agree, she acts like a fog pretty much and a conditional wrath all built into one
Crackling perimeter should have all four copies in the side as I have never found it to be very useful game one when very few decks main deck ways to disrupt maze's end.
I ran 2 in my deck before and wish I was running 3, some players run as high as 4 in the main... 4 may be too much (but good setup for a budget build), they kill planeswalkers, and are basically a 2 mana spell that says I win when you get it down. and it gives you alternate win cons... (but this deck now has planeswalkers, so i went from 3 in testing down to 2. There are some games you will play where you just wont draw a maze's end at all, or you get Jace milled and lose a key gate. Also If you run into burning earth, Crackling perimeter gets around that
I used to run 2 gatekeepers in the main and 2 may find their way back in. Against RDW, their deck is so fast this is all you have sometimes to keep alive. Rakdos return just comes in vs control decks, just always seemed good to me, there could be something better there (thoughtseize?)
I also prefer Jace, Architect of thought over Jace, Memory adept. Being able to mill them for 10 is cool and not bad in a turbo fog shell where you can protect him but he feels win more on top of Maze's end, Architect provides card advantage and can act as a semi-fog vs smaller creatures.
I like Memory Adept for the same reason you like the AOT. Memory Adept is simply a personal Howling mine. He provides card advantage, and since think twice is no longer around this is a big help... But in this deck i am like 51/49 leaning towards memory adept, but could go either way depending on the field.
I personally feel that 4 sweepers and 16 fogs is the way to go, verdict is useful vs both and fog can hold back a pesky Aetherling. It is also uncounterable which is very relevant albeit not very useful against Xathrid Necromancer and useless versus Boros Charm (the reason that I recommend a singleton Aetherize).
I am holding out judgement on Eslpeth, Sun's Champion, her first ability is neat but not amazing and her ult does not do us all that much (at least not in my build) however is we begin seeing a lot of decks where the -3 can come into play and then she can generate tokens to block the remainder (Gruul aggro perhaps?) I think she will be able to find a home in this deck somewhere but again, that is very meta dependent.
Crackling perimeter does hit walkers true but the only walker I have ever really had an issue with game one liliana of the veil. They should be a four of somewhere in the 75 and I personally prefer to put them in the board, My maindeck is so strong versus midrange and aggro (at least in the current meta) that I can dedicate most of my 75 board to beating control.
Oh I agree with Saruli Gatekeepers in the main completely, I just would never run them in the board. They are great vs RDW (which in my opinion is one of our worst match-ups) as well as further improving our anti-aggro game which to me gives them a maindeck slot.
That is about where I am between the Jace's, milling ten behind a turbofog shell is great in a control environment but it still feels like a win more, he can however draw you cards while gaining loyalty, however he comes down on turn 5 instead of 4, does not impact the game state if you are already behind. To me he is a great card if you are ahead but if you are behind Architect of thought does much more and can dig deeper into your deck for answers. Meta dependant obviously I'm about 70/30 on Architect vs Memory Adept
I agree with Crackling Perimeter completely. With the new Garuk in M14, Elspeth, Sun's Champion and whatever other walkers may come our way, I don't see it NOT being relevant anytime soon.
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MTG Junky... First packs being a starter of each 4th Edition and Ice Age. Good Grief, I've been playing since 1995? Where does the time go!
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this is mtgs, where occam's razor is so blunt it can't cut jello any more.
I agree with Crackling Perimeter completely. With the new Garuk in M14, Elspeth, Sun's Champion and whatever other walkers may come our way, I don't see it NOT being relevant anytime soon.
I don't see how those hitting the field are game ending for turbo fog, most decks build up an alpha swing by/near the end of the game even without those walkers.
Fade is there mainly for the red and black gods which will kill you if not delt with. So far, swan song has been amazing for me as we don't really care about the 2/2. I feel like most of my losses so far were either due to me misplaying because of how new I am to the deck or just bad luck. I will say that mono black is a very tough matchup. Between the discard, black god, corrupt, and grey merchant, it was almost impossible.
Fade is there mainly for the red and black gods which will kill you if not delt with. So far, swan song has been amazing for me as we don't really care about the 2/2. I feel like most of my losses so far were either due to me misplaying because of how new I am to the deck or just bad luck. I will say that mono black is a very tough matchup. Between the discard, black god, corrupt, and grey merchant, it was almost impossible.
Trust me, run 2-4 basic lands (I run 3). Burning Earth does exist and it allows to to land Supreme Verdict turn 4 more from time to time.
I wouldn't run more than 26 lands, thus 2 basics which I doubt would let me be able to beat a burning earth preboard. Those are also likely the same decks that will run skullcrack so my plan is to hold up one of the 8 counterspells in my sideboard against those red decks. It not coming into play tapped may help occasionally, but so far in my testing it hasn't been too much of an issue. Those counters are also great against control.
Yeah Rakdos's Return and Sire of Insanity are deck killers, so is Thoughtseize to a degree... i hope we can dodge those cards a bit and make up the difference in the sideboard. I really like Swan Song for this and actually did consider playing SB Thoughtseize ourselves to take care of problem cards, but I feel like Thoughtseize will never hit when we want it to. Warleader's Helix helps if Sire of Insanity sees a lot of play. We pretty much just gotta counter Return... I think we could go 4 Swans Song and 3 Negate in the sideboard and that should cover us. Alsk can counter Skullcrack too I suppose, but Im not terribly worried about losing to one card... Just gotta be.mindful it exists.and plqy accordingly.
I play a 4x of Saruli Gatekeepers mainboard in my build. the 4 toughness is very relevant against aggro, and gaining 7 life upon ETB is just amazing at keeping you in the game against almost any deck in standard (besides mill, but who plays that? )
4 Supreme verdict
3 Merciless Eviction
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Fog
4 Druid's Deliverance
4 Riot Control
2 Defend the Hearth
4 Gatecreeper Vine
3 Omenspeaker
2 Urban Evolution
1 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Selesnya Guildgate
3 Azorius Guildgate
3 Simic Guildgate
2 Orzhov Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
2 BOROS GUILDGATE
2 GRUUL GUILDGATE
4 Swan Song
3 Pithing Needle
2 Elixir of Immortality
2 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Fade into Antiquity
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Merciless Eviction
You could probably lose 1 Merciless Eviction. and take out something else to make room for the 4th Urban Evolution.
Modern
UWR American Geist-Control RWU
I considered playing accelerants like Chromatic Lantern and Into the Wilds but I felt like they didn't actually buy me that many extra turns and often times I would end up dead because I couldn't fog/wrath. I do see the merit in their inclusion in certain lists though. I just like this one myself. Any ideas for the sideboard out there? I put no extra thought into it except for the 4 Swan Song which I feel is very solid here.
do we have a better card selection/draw spell than Omenspeaker? I'm really missing Think Twice
This is just about my current list except I cut cyclonic rift for trading post and Amass the components for Jace, architect of thought. Trading post allows you to A. pitch extra gates for life (great vs RDW) and B. You can populate that 0/1 goat with Druid's Deliverance which can be strong vs a more midranged deck swinging with a few big dudes or produce an extra dude to sack for desecration demon allowing you to hold fogs etc.
Post rotation I am thinking these changes (at least until the meta becomes defined)
-3 safe passage +3 Defend the hearth
-3 terminus +2 supreme verdict +1Aetherize, Now you may ask why Aetherize over a third Verdict, I really like the one of aetherize, against most of the lower mana aggro decks this in conjunction with fogs can slow them down more than long enough for you to go off with Maze's End. Also Boros Charm, Xathrid Necromancer and any other card used to dodge sweepers don't like this card. It does require people not to expect it (hence it being a one of) as a savvy player will play around it.
-2 otherworld atlas +2 (or a 1-1 split) of either Jace, architect of thought,Sphinx's Revelation or maybe going up on Urban evolution but this is going to require testing.
-4 Auger of bolas +4 of something, right now i'm hesitant to run 4 omenspeaker's and I may do some split between them and Saruli Gatekeepers or a split with one of those cards and some type of utility like the cards listed above for replacing atlas.
2 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Azorius Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
2 Orzhov Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
1 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Golgari Guildgate
1 Izzet Guildgate
2 BOROS GUILDGATE
2 GRUUL GUILDGATE
1 island
1 plain
1 hallowed fountain
1 temple garden
4 fog
3 defend the hearth
4 druids deliverance
3 riot control
4 supreme verdict
2 merciless eviction
2 jace memory adept
2 elspeth, sun's champion
2 crackling perimeter
2 syncopate
2 negate
4 saruli gatekeeper
2 crackling perimeter
2 rakdos return
2 negate
2 pything needle
3 artisan sorrow
this is the deck I am bringing into the new standard.... My last seasons maze's end deck record was 11-1. things I learned from playing the deck are..
The great thing about Mazes end is that it just flat out beats so many decks... and in a midrangey to controlley metagame.... it can just wreck the field. the counterspells in the deck may get changed to just 4 syncopate, still testing negate, swan song in not good.
I highly recommend 4 riot control. I am not personally a fan of Merciless eviction especially when you are already running four sweepers main I think you could free up two extra slots with that. Eslpeth, Sun's Champion is an interesting choice, her +1 can be interesting especially with druids deliverance and I can see her -3 coming in handy as well. Her ult is not very good for us but then you can just go back and forth between her +1 and -3. I personally think that Crackling perimeter should have all four copies in the side as I have never found it to be very useful game one when very few decks main deck ways to disrupt maze's end. Saruli Gatekeepers feels very weak in the board to me as does Rakdos return. For gatekeeper your match vs aggro should be damn near 95% anyway and as for return, what is the logic? Bringing it in vs control and hoping they don't have a counter or that you have a counter to back it up? This deck has so few early targets for counter magic that they are more then likely going to end up holding on to counterspells. I also prefer Jace, Architect of thought over Jace, Memory adept. Being able to mill them for 10 is cool and not bad in a turbo fog shell where you can protect him but he feels win mroe on top of Maze's end, Architect provides card advantage and can act as a semi-fog vs smaller creatures.
Edit: Yes, Skullcrack is a nightmare and is going to be even worse without witchbane orb that card became a lot scarier, you really have to play it a lot tighter vs it and try to stay above 13 life which means fogging more aggressively and if they get more then one it gets that much worse. Negate can help and so can Saruli Gatekeepers main deck but it is still a tough match-up, probably our worst one in my experience but not unwinnable. And every deck has a deck it is weak against that's no reason not to play it when it can do well vs so many other decks
I think you can go 14 fogs 6 sweepers, or 16 fogs 4 sweepers. last season I ran 14 fog, 3 supreme verdict, 3 terminus. so this is just a meta-call but I agree
Eslpeth, Sun's Champion is an interesting choice, her +1 can be interesting especially with druids deliverance and I can see her -3 coming in handy as well. Her ult is not very good for us but then you can just go back and forth between her +1 and -3. I personally think that
I agree, she acts like a fog pretty much and a conditional wrath all built into one
Crackling perimeter should have all four copies in the side as I have never found it to be very useful game one when very few decks main deck ways to disrupt maze's end.
I ran 2 in my deck before and wish I was running 3, some players run as high as 4 in the main... 4 may be too much (but good setup for a budget build), they kill planeswalkers, and are basically a 2 mana spell that says I win when you get it down. and it gives you alternate win cons... (but this deck now has planeswalkers, so i went from 3 in testing down to 2. There are some games you will play where you just wont draw a maze's end at all, or you get Jace milled and lose a key gate. Also If you run into burning earth, Crackling perimeter gets around that
Saruli Gatekeepers feels very weak in the board to me as does Rakdos return.
I used to run 2 gatekeepers in the main and 2 may find their way back in. Against RDW, their deck is so fast this is all you have sometimes to keep alive. Rakdos return just comes in vs control decks, just always seemed good to me, there could be something better there (thoughtseize?)
I also prefer Jace, Architect of thought over Jace, Memory adept. Being able to mill them for 10 is cool and not bad in a turbo fog shell where you can protect him but he feels win more on top of Maze's end, Architect provides card advantage and can act as a semi-fog vs smaller creatures.
I like Memory Adept for the same reason you like the AOT. Memory Adept is simply a personal Howling mine. He provides card advantage, and since think twice is no longer around this is a big help... But in this deck i am like 51/49 leaning towards memory adept, but could go either way depending on the field.
I personally feel that 4 sweepers and 16 fogs is the way to go, verdict is useful vs both and fog can hold back a pesky Aetherling. It is also uncounterable which is very relevant albeit not very useful against Xathrid Necromancer and useless versus Boros Charm (the reason that I recommend a singleton Aetherize).
I am holding out judgement on Eslpeth, Sun's Champion, her first ability is neat but not amazing and her ult does not do us all that much (at least not in my build) however is we begin seeing a lot of decks where the -3 can come into play and then she can generate tokens to block the remainder (Gruul aggro perhaps?) I think she will be able to find a home in this deck somewhere but again, that is very meta dependent.
Crackling perimeter does hit walkers true but the only walker I have ever really had an issue with game one liliana of the veil. They should be a four of somewhere in the 75 and I personally prefer to put them in the board, My maindeck is so strong versus midrange and aggro (at least in the current meta) that I can dedicate most of my 75 board to beating control.
Oh I agree with Saruli Gatekeepers in the main completely, I just would never run them in the board. They are great vs RDW (which in my opinion is one of our worst match-ups) as well as further improving our anti-aggro game which to me gives them a maindeck slot.
That is about where I am between the Jace's, milling ten behind a turbofog shell is great in a control environment but it still feels like a win more, he can however draw you cards while gaining loyalty, however he comes down on turn 5 instead of 4, does not impact the game state if you are already behind. To me he is a great card if you are ahead but if you are behind Architect of thought does much more and can dig deeper into your deck for answers. Meta dependant obviously I'm about 70/30 on Architect vs Memory Adept
4 Fog
4 Defend The Hearth
4 Druid's Deliverance
4 Riot Control
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Urban Evolution
3 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Treasured Find
4 Swan Song
4 Negate
3 Crackling Perimiter
4 Fade into Antiquity
Fade is there mainly for the red and black gods which will kill you if not delt with. So far, swan song has been amazing for me as we don't really care about the 2/2. I feel like most of my losses so far were either due to me misplaying because of how new I am to the deck or just bad luck. I will say that mono black is a very tough matchup. Between the discard, black god, corrupt, and grey merchant, it was almost impossible.
Modern: UW Spirits
Trust me, run 2-4 basic lands (I run 3). Burning Earth does exist and it allows to to land Supreme Verdict turn 4 more from time to time.
Modern: UW Spirits
WB Eldrazi Processors BW
Legacy:
WUBRGLandless DredgeGRBUW
EDH:
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothGB
WUBrago, King Eternal (Budget!)UW
2 Jace, Memory Adept
3 Azorius Guildgate
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
4 Maze's End
2 Orzhov Guildgate
2 Rakdos Guildgate
3 Selesnya Guildgate
3 Simic Guildgate
4 Defend the Hearth
4 Druid's Deliverance
4 Fog
4 Riot Control
3 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Swan Song
3 Supreme Verdict
4 Urban Evolution
It's a lot of fun to play. Having to rely on only verdict as the removal can be very frustrating.
This deck was actually posted on SCG by Mark Nestico, credit where credit is due http://www.starcitygames.com/article/26937_Crafting-Decklists-With-Theros.html