MTG Salvation

Diabolic Tutor

Many dislike it, simply for the fact it's not a Demonic Tutor, but it is a good way to get any card for just 4 mana. However, I find myself taking it out of my decks after a while because that's just it, it's 4 mana to just get a card, nothing more. Increasing Ambition has added value in flashback, Diabolic Revelations gets multiple cards, and Vampiric Tutor and Demonic Tutor are just stupidly efficient at what they do.

It's the same way I feel about Divination. It's OKAY, but just that. Tezzeret's Gambit proliferates, Foresee lets you scry4 first, etc. It does it's just but not at a value that makes it rediculous.

What is other's opinions on Diabolic tutor? I know it's a good card, but I keep finding myself putting it on the chopping block as of late.

I think it depends on how competitive you tend to play. I personally think it's a decent way of fetching something you need for 4 mana. I also am a poor college student that plays EDH on a budget For a more casual player/deck, it seems really good. I understand though that when you get more competitive with a higher budget, I agree that it just doesn't cut it.

I understand it's a great budget tutor, but the reality of it is i'm not cutting it for a better tutor. I feel that draw advantage or other cards would just be better fitted for the slot. Obviously Demonic tutor slots in over Diabolic, but I was thinking about putting something like Fact or Fiction or Ancient Craving in its place instead. I feel like at 4CMC draw power wins over tutelage.

It depends on what your deck is trying to do. If you're playing aggro, it's probably not worth playing. There are a lot of GREAT 4 drop creatures. If you're playing a control deck, finding specific answers like oblivion stone or key cards like cabal coffers after I've played urborg, tomb of yawgmoth is really important.

I don't play combo, but I'd imagine it's amazing there too. Topdecking Diabolic Tutor puts you two turns away from assembling whatever two-card combo you've drawn the other half of.

Quote from Elvish Sniper

It depends on what your deck is trying to do. If you're playing aggro, it's probably not worth playing. There are a lot of GREAT 4 drop creatures. If you're playing a control deck, finding specific answers like oblivion stone or key cards like cabal coffers after I've played urborg, tomb of yawgmoth is really important.

I don't play combo, but I'd imagine it's amazing there too. Topdecking Diabolic Tutor puts you two turns away from assembling whatever two-card combo you've drawn the other half of.

This. I cut it from my Erebos deck just to add it back in (alongside Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, and Liliana Vess). It's not conditional like Beseech the Queen and when mana's an issue, it's cheaper than Diabolic Revelation and Increasing Ambition.

I would be wary of valuing Increasing Ambition or Diabolic Revelations higher than Diabolic Tutor.

The way I see it, you are either tutoring to solve a problem or to improve your position. Generally if you need to solve a problem, the problem is going to be some variation of "Player X just barfed something all over the table and if nobody does something, he's probably going to win soon". In these cases, tutoring and then passing the turn is going to be a huge telegraph to your opponent that he must kill you now or you are going to undo his plans when you next get to untap. In these cases, the cheaper the tutor is, the more likely you will be able to tutor and immediately follow up with your game-changing plan.

Likewise, tutoring to improve your position can be pretty damn dangerous if your opponents aren't sitting on their hands. Tapping out to flash back Increasing Ambition, or to cast Revelations for X > 2 is basically telling the entire table "hit me with all you've got, because when I untap, things are going to get really, really bad for you guys". With Diabolic, you can tutor up something like Promise of Power and then immediately play something else that won't get you targeted, keeping the high-risk card for when you can handle the heat.

It makes the cut in 5 color as far as I'm concerned. It's a solid card. Yeah it's not stupid efficient like demonic tutor, and yeah it doesn't have flashback tacked on like increasing ambition. But a mere 4 mana for any card is fantastic. If you're playing super casual edh where you have all the time in world to be throwing out revelations for 9 then by all means feel free to cut diabolic tutor, but in more competitive groups that mana cost is a big deal.

I've never really bothered with it, though I probably should have. Even when I didn't have Demonic Tutor or anything I would look at it and turn it down because of its cost. For some reason I would rather run Beseech the Queen, despite Diabolic Tutor being better in most situations.

I cut it for Rune-Scarred Demon, simply because I'd rather pay 3 more to get a 6/6 flyer.

If you're playing mono-black, you have no reason not to play it. There is no such thing as too many tutors. They give you options and mana is rarely a problem in a well built deck.

There are some exceptions in monoblack, like aggro.

But. pretty much yes. Tutors >options
>answers
>wincons

It gets even better in multicolor. red :Copying a tutor? yes please
green/blue :copy/ Return tutor to hand? wii.
white : something.. .

There are better tutors. but tutor effects are too stronk
except when everything is tuned. and synergy beats everything/other options are just as strong. Like playing a little bit more competitive

Quote from Rishana

If you're playing mono-black, you have no reason not to play it. There is no such thing as too many tutors. They give you options and mana is rarely a problem in a well built deck.

It is the opportunity cost that matters. In a more aggressive meta that 4-mana you are spending to tutor is 4-mana not being spent to advance your game or disrupt someone else's.

Personally I think it is fine as a budget option for decks that really need the tutoring effect for a combo set up or silver bullet, but wouldn't run it outside of that situation. In my black decks I would rather just draw 3 cards for the same price.

Love it. Unconditional tutors are the best tutors. After demonic and vampiric, diabolic tutor is next up, followed by increasing ambition.

Quote from Golden

It is the opportunity cost that matters. In a more aggressive meta that 4-mana you are spending to tutor is 4-mana not being spent to advance your game or disrupt someone else's.

Personally I think it is fine as a budget option for decks that really need the tutoring effect for a combo set up or silver bullet, but wouldn't run it outside of that situation. In my black decks I would rather just draw 3 cards for the same price.

I play it in the most aggressive Skithryx list that the EDH world has ever seen and it has never disappointed me. I cast it many times on turn two, ideally off a dark ritual with an LED in play

Tutors get you what you need to win.

I have never played it in my three color control decks because "Four mana is too much for this." It's expensive to resolve both Diabolic Tutor and whatever I got with it in the same turn. In a control deck I am getting answers rather than pursuing a linear game plan. In a Kresh deck built around Doubling Season, let's say my strategy revolves around Doubling Season so I may be fine with paying four to go get it. But in a control deck the card I need most next turn might change by my next untap step.

I play Grim Tutor in one of my decks right now though and I bet I could cut it for Diabolic and rarely notice the difference. I am probably more prejudiced against Diabolic "because it costs four" than anything else.

I find Promise of Power to be superior to it in slot unless you're playing something like Sharuum.

I guess it really just depends on how many tutors you are running. In my black decks it tends to hold its slot as long as I'm running 4 or more tutors.

I'd rather run draw over tutor after you get Demonic, Vampiric, and Expedition Map in the deck. Monoblack has redundancy built into it so overloading on tutors doesn't really help you with anything but consistency - something it already has.

Unless the deck is really creature light, I'd prefer Diabolic Intent over Diabolic Tutor.

Yeah, 4 mana is a HUGE difference from 2. This thread touches pretty directly on discussions about whether Demonic and Vampiric are good for the format. Lots of people see little practical difference between 4 mana and 2, and it's good to know that there are players of all stripes who don't see Diabolic as worth the mana on its own.

The question is - if you couldn't run Demonic or Vampiric, would you absolutely NEED to run Diabolic? If no, you probably won't run Diabolic regardless of these 2. If yes, you'll probably run it in addition. Which case is which depends on the deck. I've seen combo decks where Diabolic was the most lol'zy, inefficient card in the pile, but it was still there. Meanwhile, I see it very little in other deck types. What I see are more narrowly tailored options like Reanimate on Rune-Scarred Demon, Birthing Pod or Pattern of Rebirth. That's not to mention those who'd rather run Phyrexian Arena and similar because of a strategy choice like Classic Control v. Stax or something.


To the OP, you should definitely run Fact or Fiction, Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora in UBx before you run Diabolic or Increasing Ambition. Ancestral Vision, Thirst for Knowledge and Phyrexian Arena are candidates that can go either way relative to tutors, depending on your deck. If you've got some specific value-engine to plant or a combo to get off, you want tutor, otherwise you can get better value out of pure draw.

No mention of Insidious Dreams ? That thing is usually a freakin' powerhouse !

Quote from Burntgerbil

No mention of Insidious Dreams ? That thing is usually a freakin' powerhouse !

I like its instant speed and it's good in a re-animator deck but the discard requirement and OTL is a pain.

Quote from ChimericPisces

This. I cut it from my Erebos deck just to add it back in (alongside Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, and Liliana Vess). It's not conditional like Beseech the Queen and when mana's an issue, it's cheaper than Diabolic Revelation and Increasing Ambition.

I think it's too slow for combo. At least in the decks I play I always end up cutting it. You generally want to tutor for your card and play spells in the same turn or at least have mana flexibility to play other spells while setting it up. The four mana makes that difficult to do in most situations except perhaps very late in the game. In those instances Diabolic Revelation and friends are almost always better.

I generally will run Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Yawgmoth's Will and if you can afford it, the portal tutors before considering Diabolic Tutor. Then I'll usually end up running Revelation or Rune-Scarred over it regardless.

If you are making a budget deck and don't want to shell out for Vampiric or Demonic then I think it's a decent replacement. But I wouldn't run it for any other reason.

I run it in my Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis MBC deck but I've always found it too slow or clunky for other decks I've played with B in them.

Diabolic Tutor is really expensive. A card need to be insane for you to spend almost a whole turn to fetch it. Even Grim Tutor is often too expensive to be worth playing.