So once I got a look at the new naya general marath from the Commander 2013, I had to take apart Mayael and build this beast. I built the deck pretty quick and tested it and it did surprisingly well. The end result is basically a super-value town token deck. It is extremely resilient. Heres the list.
Deck Statistics:
Average CMC: 4.11
Wins off Commander Damage: 4
Wins off Normal Damage: 7
Losses to Damage: 1
Losses to Other: 3
Strategy:
Early Game: Ramp!
The first thing you should notice is that theres a lot of mana doubling in this deck. Since our general can basically make itself bigger by killing itself, having double, triple, even quintuple mana is going to benefit us way more than any other player. This means we can play some fun symetrical mana doubling effects that are cheap and easy to tutor. Doubling/tripling the mana is key to casting huge spells and doing crazy things in this deck.
Mid Game: Cast Threats
Once you spew out a bunch of mana, you want to throw down a bunch of threats on board. You can do this with or without Marath. Usually I like to cast marath at least once on turn 3 or 4 and throw him under the bus just to get him to 5 casting cost. He is pretty underwhelming at 3 late game. This also allows you to keep CA.
Late Game: Recover and Regroup
This deck is hella resiliant. A wrath will hit the field and wipe away your guys, but this deck has plenty of ammo to just spew out one to three more threats immediatley after a wrath. Not to mention Armageddon effects don't work very well agaisnt it either with the combination of mana doubling and Life from the Loam + Crucible of Worlds. You should be able to exhaust your opponents resources quickly and overrun them with tokens and fatties.
Card Breakdown:
Ramp Package:
Sol Ring, Grim Monolith - I chose not to include Mana Vault because I never wanted to pay the four to untap it. Monolith is much more flexible.
Exploration, Burgeoning - This card is just too good to not throw in the deck. Although It always sucks to dump your hand of lands and then top deck nothing, because then everyone thinks you are up to no good with your turbo-land stuff.
Farseek, Sakura-Tribe ElderCultivate, Kodama's Reach - Basic early land tutors. These aren't great cards to see but since we can't fill the deck with sol rings and explorations these are the second best thing.
Bloom Tender - This was great in Mayael, because it allowed for a turn 4 activation. The same applies here with Marath. You can cast this guy turn 2, then turn 3 cast Marath, and you have the 3 mana open now with Bloom tender to make tokens/deal damage/pump something. (probably the first 2)
Knight of the Reliquary - This was put in because not only is it one of my favorite magic cards and I have a foil one, but because I have a lot of awesome utility lands that I want to tutor up, not to mention I run fetches. I felt like a one and done crop rotation wouldn't be as good as getting repeated use out of this bad girl.
Mana Flare, Mirari's Wake, Mana Reflection, Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger - These are all the mana doublers in the deck. Mana Flare is our friendliest one of the bunch. There used to be five, however It was cut for an extra creature tutor. I think four mana doublers is plenty.
Xenagos, the Reveler - This guy is essentially a ramp card. I rarely use him for anything but his +1, because its usually for at least 3 or 4 mana (if not something like 12). Sometimes I'll use the 0 if I want to get aggressive, but hes mostly Gaea's cradle number 2. Protect him and you'll get really big genesis waves.
Oracle of Mul Daya - I actually prefer Oracle over azusa, because azusa is often for me a one and done deal, especially when I am also running Exploration and Burgeoning. Oracle can thin the deck out fast, and put lands from the top of your deck on the battlefield. Thats pretty solid.
Theats:
Craterhoof Behemoth - Basically self explanatory. This guy should be in every token deck. He wins you the game unless someone fogs... which... god damn that's annoying when that happens... at least have the decency of just countering him... nooo gotta wait till I commit to combat... blah! Hoof hates fogs.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - I like packing at least one eldrazi titan in my green decks. It protects me against certain discard and mill strategies and Kozi draws me cards too. He's a good guy. He's one of those guys that requires an answer, and if dropped early or late is always a great card to see.
Avacyn, Angel of Hope - I think making all your permanents indestructible is difficult to argue against.
Ogre Battledriver - Holy haste batman. I thought this guy wasn't that great until I tested him out in the deck. Sometimes you can just be 100% wrong about things. Thats why its always great to test, because this guy is absolutley nuts. Think about Avenger of Zendikar. Hes the only global haste outlet, but I feel like hes the only one I had room for, and the only one that I felt was good enough, and on par with the token theme.
Sylvan Primordial - Do you have forests in your deck? You do? Well. Meet your new best friend. And the source of your opponent's groans when he comes out turn 3-4 off of Natural Order. Its not a combo deck, but that doesn't mean we still can't do at least one degenerate thing.
Assemble the Legion - Tick tock tick tock. Your opponents won't be paying attention, when suddenly you have 5 muster counters on this guy. And by the way, the tokens have haste. Nuts! Awesome for sneaky overruns.
Woodfall Primus, Kitchen Finks - These are combo pieces primarily, but the Primus can be a great beater too. Comboing off is difficult in this deck (and I would rather it be more difficult, as I don't aim to win that way unless I have to), so these aren't always auto tutors like in a normal combo deck.
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite - This card pumps ups your dudes, and can potentially be a sweeper on your opponents boards. Pretty straight forward.
Gahiji Honored One - Another anthemy effect, except its naya's edric. A great political tool, however to be honest this is mostly a flavor inclusion. If you are looking to be super optimized and competitive I'd definitely leave this guy out.
Other Stuff: Greater Good - "Sacrifice Marath: Refill your hand." Also comes in handy when a blue mage is trying to steal your big guys away from you.
Mentor of the Meek, Skullclamp - Token based draw engines are really powerful in this deck, especially with Marath. I actually prefer having Mentor of the Meek out over the clamp. Keeping the tokens in play is important for overrun and getting damage in with pumps/anthems.
Ashnod's Altar - Basically free mana, and a combo enabler. This and Goblin Bombardment are the optimal sac outlets when you are trying to use persist creatures to combo kill. Goblin Bombardment does infinite damage, Ashnod's Altar does infinite mana. Take your pick.
Primeval Bounty - This card is absolutley nuts in here. You can cast it, then load a bunch of counters on Marath. All the while you are gaining life, and making 3/3s while you cast your bombs. Crazy good card!
Sun Titan, Crucible of Worlds - We need to be able to come back from mass LD. The ability to recur fetch lands and cycling lands is also nice. Also Strip Mine lock if you need it. Sun Titan helps get back Kitchen finks and Eternal Witness as well, which are both super important cards in the deck.
Oblation, Chaos Warp, Unexpectedly Absent - These hit problem cards and tuck those pesky voltron generals. Use these cards wisely. There isn't a lot of spot removal in this deck. This is the deck that is the target of all the spot removal.
Sterling Grove, Privileged Position - Getting one of these out is good. Getting both out at once is hilarious. Sterling Grove is actually really great in this deck since there's now so many enchantments, and a lot of them are game winners too. Protecting them is sometimes more important than protecting our creatures. I'd sooner let all my creatures die than have Mana Reflection be vulnerable.
Eternal Witness, Praetor's Counsel - Do I even need to say why? These cards are nuts. Best recursion green can offer. I have yet to run a deck with green that didn't have both of these in them. (except for a mono green primal surge deck I once ran).
Rhys the Redeemed - She doesn't work for what I am doing. I would much rather play an overrun sort of ability and just kill everyone, which is normally what I do.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion - So many elspeths! I had her in my Ertai, the Corrupted deck. I had all the elspeths in there. I would get elspeth flooded. Her minus ability kills most of my big token generator guys unfortunatley. And I like tirel better for this sort of build. The lifegain really helps.
Wurmcoil Engine, Requiem Angel - We tend to like proactive strategies in our playgroup. There's usually 1 control player vs 3 aggro/midrange players. There's not as many wipes hitting the board as in normal playgroups I guess so this guy isn't necessary. The ability to constantly recast Marath also generates CA, which means we can hold threats in our hand too and force wipes with walkers, enchantments and marath alone. Then BOOM avacyn and kozilek hit the field. Having two 3/3s or a bunch of 1/1s would just be overkill :P.
Suture Priest, Soul Warden, Essence Warden - These seem unnecessary, and for combo purposes only. When I want to gain life, I want to gain a lot of life in one or two triggers. These slots seem better suited as threats. I can see why youd include these as to gain infinite life, but if you are in a meta that actually permits you to gain infinite life, then they can probably deal infinite damage right back at you. So its pointless almost. True Conviction is way better. Its threatening and says "I'm going to murder your face all the way to value town." These girls say "I'm going to gain... you some life..." and thats all they do. Except maybe suture priest. Maybe.
I would suggest taking out Life from the Loam as there isn't any graveyard recurring cards in the deck or cycling lands. If you need the loam engine, Sun Titan, Reveillark and/or Karmic Guide are good choices for creature recursion.
Didn't have good experiences with Mycoloth, in my meta he will just get plowed the moment he has 2+ counters on him.
Since you are going the value route, may I suggest Beastmaster Ascension & Druid Repository. Beastmaster Ascension activates rather easily in Marath and Druid Repository is equivalent to "Whenever a creature attacks, untap one of our lands" but can store the mana for future use like a battery.
I would suggest taking out Life from the Loam as there isn't any graveyard recurring cards in the deck or cycling lands. If you need the loam engine, Sun Titan, Reveillark and/or Karmic Guide are good choices for creature recursion.
I think you skipped over the four fetch lands and three cycling lands.... Theres a reason I run Loam and Crucible. I don't really like creature recursion in big rampy Naya builds much as they don't do much on their own. I'd rather just cast another threat than try and get back old ones. If I'm going to get back my threats I'll get my entire yard back with Praetor's Counsel instead.
Didn't have good experiences with Mycoloth, in my meta he will just get plowed the moment he has 2+ counters on him.
Depends on when he is dropping. Check graveyards. If you want a certain threat to stick on the field try and take a brief survey of what you think is in everyones hands.
Since you are going the value route, may I suggest Beastmaster Ascension & Druid Repository. Beastmaster Ascension activates rather easily in Marath and Druid Repository is equivalent to "Whenever a creature attacks, untap one of our lands" but can store the mana for future use like a battery.
I would have no idea what to take out for either of those cards. They seem to work well for more token heavy strategies. I think druid's repository could be worth it but not beastmasters ascension. I think that would paint too big of a target on my head if I didn't kill the table the turn it dropped.
Actually I think If i wanted a druids repository effect I would just add Earthcraft. It drops earlier and works better with my mana doubling. I think I have one in my binder... If I didn't trade it off. I hope I didn't. That could be a possibility.
Missed out on the cycling lands, my bad. Personally to me the loam engine is great when you don't mind dredging cards into your yard. With no other way of recursion apart from Praetor's Counsel and Eternal Witness it is going to be very hard to get back the threats you 'accidentally dredged' into the yard.
eg. Crucible of Worlds as part of the 3 cards being dredged in.
For threat sticking it highly depends on the playgroup we are in. In my playgroup generally cards (especially creatures) that only do something during the next upkeep are considered as card disadvantage due to the number of sweeps/targetted removal the meta has. Don't be surprised that my opponents will Damnation the moment a 0/2 enchantress hits the field, or Wrath of God if the only creature on board is a Noble Hierarch. Sweeps are aplenty here (Previously my Karador deck runs 8 sweeps minimum), hence running cards like Deranged Hermit is actually more worth it than Mycoloth for me.
Another card I think will be a natural fit for us is Natural Order, the tokens created from Marath is Green, so we don't really have to worry about having a green creature to sacrifice.
Missed out on the cycling lands, my bad. Personally to me the loam engine is great when you don't mind dredging cards into your yard. With no other way of recursion apart from Praetor's Counsel and Eternal Witness it is going to be very hard to get back the threats you 'accidentally dredged' into the yard.
Worked fine for me in Mayael even after I cut Sun Titan. I don't use it much as an engine as a way to get back into the game after an Armageddon effect or a way to recur my fetch lands once or twice. Plus I have Mirri's Guile and Sensei's Divining Top to check my top 3 if its really an issue.
Don't be surprised that my opponents will Damnation the moment a 0/2 enchantress hits the field, or Wrath of God if the only creature on board is a Noble Hierarch.
Well, in my meta everything goes. We have crazy fast plays like Sharuum infinite by turn 3, Rafiq attacking for lethal by turn 4 or my enchantress.dec going off 1 turn after I cast my 1st enchantress netting 5+ cards in turn 3. All powered by mana crypt and gang.
Hence most of the time the 1st sweep will occur within the 1st 5 turns. Which is why creatures that have abilities like "During your upkeep, do XXX" have very low value in my playgroup as they usually don't last long enough to see their very 1st upkeep.
For threat sticking it highly depends on the playgroup we are in. In my playgroup generally cards (especially creatures) that only do something during the next upkeep are considered as card disadvantage due to the number of sweeps/targetted removal the meta has. Don't be surprised that my opponents will Damnation the moment a 0/2 enchantress hits the field, or Wrath of God if the only creature on board is a Noble Hierarch. Sweeps are aplenty here (Previously my Karador deck runs 8 sweeps minimum), hence running cards like Deranged Hermit is actually more worth it than Mycoloth for me.
I did the Damnation on Enchantress being the only creature on board...cause I've seen how the the Enchantress deck can go nuts really fast.
What he failed to mention about that the *** on Noble Hierarch being the only creature on board, is that there was a sword of feast & famine(or was it fire & ice) on board, with the threat of casting Rafiq, equipping sword on Noble Hierarch and swinging with double strike + exalted next turn.
There was this time when it was turn 3 or 4, Rafiq was casted. I had Black Sun Zenith in hand, enough to bring Rafiq down to 1/1, but not to kill it. So, I decide to hold back. Bad move. Got promptly pwnt by two Rafiq attacks due to a Time Warp. I really should've Black Sun for 2 that time.
I added some cards to the deck. Made some changes. true conviction is amazing in here. Gets you so much reach.
... Seems like an unfortunate meta. We all collectively decided that we actually like playing magic, so we don't really play infinite combos or super hyper aggressive decks. They usually get hated out fast. As someone who has piloted decks like that before they are only fun for the pilot, and sometimes that's not even true. No one likes the game just going "it's over he won." It's a poor way to play. If there is a combo running amok, its not 2 cards and its just being used by a control player or group hug player to wrap things up.
I think I had the worst deck out of all of them... My general was Dosan, the Falling Leaf a few times I goth 13 mana turn 4 so I casted him with no responses and then played primal surge, dumping my entire deck on the field. It wasn't that satisfying. It wasn't challenging or engaging either. I cast my combo. I win. It's bland.
Hence, my card choices for this deck. One of the nice things about it is I don't even need my general to operate at all. He is really just there to help make the deck more awesome, aside from always having a dude to cast turn 3.
I added some cards to the deck. Made some changes. true conviction is amazing in here. Gets you so much reach.
... Seems like an unfortunate meta. We all collectively decided that we actually like playing magic, so we don't really play infinite combos or super hyper aggressive decks. They usually get hated out fast. As someone who has piloted decks like that before they are only fun for the pilot, and sometimes that's not even true. No one likes the game just going "it's over he won." It's a poor way to play. If there is a combo running amok, its not 2 cards and its just being used by a control player or group hug player to wrap things up.
I think I had the worst deck out of all of them... My general was Dosan, the Falling Leaf a few times I goth 13 mana turn 4 so I casted him with no responses and then played primal surge, dumping my entire deck on the field. It wasn't that satisfying. It wasn't challenging or engaging either. I cast my combo. I win. It's bland.
Hence, my card choices for this deck. One of the nice things about it is I don't even need my general to operate at all. He is really just there to help make the deck more awesome, aside from always having a dude to cast turn 3.
It all boils down to the mindset of the players in the meta. Our playgroup like playing magic too and we understand that infinite combos, hyper aggressive decks are all part of the MTG game. We like to embrace the entirety of MTG whole, not just certain parts of it which we prefer. Hence all strategies goes in our meta, from Stax, prison to MLD. Whatever legal in MTG is legit in our strategies.
As for how fast our games end, they usually end at around turn 12-15, which is considered fine for us. Games need to end somewhere, whether it is via attacking with swarms, taxing everyone to conceding, or doing infinte combos. If one can actually pull off an infinite in our meta, his deck+piloting skills is good. There are so many disrupters all around in the playgroup that it is actually quite hard to assemble a game winning combo. Games are exciting, and has lots of crucial moments where there are many many hard decisions to make (like countering opponent A and B will win via infinite, but if let opponent A go but will cripple both you and B)
Sad to say, there is one kind of strategy that is hated the most in our meta although everything is legit, the "I am winning yet I want to delay the game further" strategy. Usually this is more of the player's personality than the cards itself.
Personally for me I also find that iWin one-cards are boring too, hence I don't usually use Primal Surge, Tooth & Nail or Sylvan Primordial.
I like true conviction too, but the WWW cost makes it really hard to cast in a tri-color deck. If only erebos's whip is white...
I will drop Mirri's Guile for Goblin Bombardment. Mirri's Guile is very often rendered useless when Sylvan library or Sensei's Divning Top is on board.
Does Torpor Orb affect Marath? I don't think it's a triggered ability.
Nope. Marath's ability is worded as "X enters the battlefield with", more like a static ability that comes with the card as it ETB. It isn't a delayed triggered ability that uses the stack. Same case as how hydras are not affected by Torpor Orb.
Torpor Orb only affects abilities worded as "When X enters the battlefield, do Y".
Nope. Marath's ability is worded as "X enters the battlefield with", more like a static ability that comes with the card as it ETB. It isn't a delayed triggered ability that uses the stack. Same case as how hydras are not affected by Torpor Orb.
Torpor Orb only affects abilities worded as "When X enters the battlefield, do Y".
Didn't catch that. Thought Marath said "When" for some reason. Maybe I should actually read the card and not assume. Oh well good catch.
I updated the list. Added and removed some cards. The deck is running very smooth now. Starting to get very consistent.
I'm testing out some new strategies for this deck. I've come across some problems and realized its really hard to not have a combo in a marath deck without removing Doubling Season, which I really don't want to do. So I decided screw it lets throw some 3 card combos in. These are on the harder side to assemble, but they are tutorable if you really want to. Since combos will be in the deck Natural Order will probably be cut for Eladmri's Call. A turn 3-4 Sylvan Primordial followed up by a Woodfall Primus lock isn't the kind of play style I want to encourage or play with. (although I think the deck can still do that... just not as easily).
So any suggestions on what should get the axe and what should come in? I haven't gotten to playtest with any people because I've been busy with school. Only on my own time playing solitaire.
[IMG]http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/arcana/arc1337_oihf_marath.jpg[IMG]
Decklist:
3 Marath, Will of the Wild
Creatures (19)
2 Bloom Tender
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Eternal Witness
3 Mentor of the Meek
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Purphoros, God of the Forge
4 Ogre Battledriver
5 Gahiji Honored One
6 Dragon Broodmother
6 Sun Titan
7 Sylvan Primordial
7 Avenger of Zendikar
7 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
8 Craterhoof Behemoth
8 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
8 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
8 Woodfall Primus
10 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Planeswalkers (5)
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Garruk, Primal Hunter
4 Xenagos, the Reveler
4 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
5 Elspeth Tirel
Instants/Sorceries (15)
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Farseek
2 Eladamri's Call
2 Martial Coup
2 Unexpectedly Absent
3 Genesis Wave
3 Kodama's Reach
3 Cultivate
3 Chord of Calling
3 Chaos Warp
3 Oblation
6 Austere Command
7 Tooth and Nail
8 Praetor's Counsel
1 Exploration
1 Burgeoning
2 Sylvan Library
2 Goblin Bombardment
2 Sterling Grove
3 Mana Flare
4 Greater Good
5 Assemble the Legion
5 Doubling Season
5 Cathars' Crusade
5 Privileged Position
5 Mirari's Wake
6 Primeval Bounty
6 Mana Reflection
Artifacts (7)
1 Sol Ring
1 Skullclamp
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Grim Monolith
3 Ashnod's Altar
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Rings of Brighthearth
Lands (38)
0 Forest
0 Forest
0 Forest
0 Forest
0 Plains
0 Plains
0 Plains
0 Mountain
0 Mountain
0 Savannah
0 Taiga
0 Plateau
0 Command Tower
0 Jungle Shrine
0 Temple Garden
0 Stomping Ground
0 Sacred Foundry
0 Wooded Bastion
0 Fire-Lit Thicket
0 Horizon Canopy
0 Sunpetal Grove
0 Rootbound Crag
0 Stirring Wildwood
0 Raging Ravine
0 Windswept Heath
0 Verdant Catacombs
0 Arid Mesa
0 Wooded Foothills
0 Gaea's Cradle
0 Forgotten Cave
0 Tranquil Thicket
0 Secluded Steppe
0 Reliquary Tower
0 Wasteland
0 Strip Mine
0 Kessig Wolf Run
0 Gavony Township
0 Temple of the False God
Decklist by function (Not up to date)
3 Marath, Will of the Wild
Ramp (15)
1 Sol Ring
1 Exploration
2 Bloom Tender
2 Farseek*
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder*
2 Grim Monolith
3 Ashnod's Altar
3 Mana Flare
3 Kodama's Reach
3 Cultivate*
3 Recross the Paths
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Garruk Wildspeaker*
5 Mirari's Wake
6 Mana Reflection*
8 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger*
Threats (12)
4 Purphoros, God of the Forge
4 Ogre Battledriver*
6 Dragonlair Spider
6 Dragon Broodmother
6 Aurelia, the Warleader
7 Vicious Shadows
7 Sylvan Primordial
7 Avenger of Zendikar
7 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
8 Craterhoof Behemoth*
8 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
10 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Token Engines (7)
4 Garruk, Primal Hunter
4 Xenagos, the Reveler
4 Elspeth, Knight Errant
5 Elspeth Tirel
5 Assemble the Legion
5 Doubling Season
6 Primeval Bounty
2 Goblin Bombardment
2 Unexpectedly Absent
2 Life from the Loam*
2 Martial Coup
3 Aura Shards
3 Eternal Witness*
3 Chaos Warp
3 Oblation
3 Crucible of Worlds
5 Privileged Position
6 Austere Command
6 True Conviction
Card Advantage (14)
1 Skullclamp
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mirri's Guile
2 Sterling Grove
2 Sylvan Library
3 Genesis Wave
3 Chord of Calling
3 Mentor of the Meek
4 Greater Good
4 Natural Order
7 Tooth and Nail
8 Praetor's Counsel*
Lands (38)
0 Forest*
0 Forest*
0 Forest*
0 Forest*
0 Plains*
0 Plains*
0 Plains*
0 Mountain*
0 Mountain*
0 Savannah
0 Taiga
0 Plateau
0 Command Tower
0 Jungle Shrine
0 Temple Garden*
0 Stomping Ground
0 Sacred Foundry
0 Wooded Bastion
0 Fire-Lit Thicket
0 Horizon Canopy
0 Sunpetal Grove*
0 Rootbound Crag*
0 Stirring Wildwood*
0 Raging Ravine
0 Windswept Heath
0 Verdant Catacombs
0 Arid Mesa
0 Wooded Foothills
0 Gaea's Cradle
0 Forgotten Cave
0 Tranquil Thicket
0 Secluded Steppe
0 Reliquary Tower*
0 Wasteland
0 Strip Mine
0 Kessig Wolf Run*
0 Gavony Township
0 Temple of the False God
Deck Statistics:
Average CMC: 4.11
Wins off Commander Damage: 4
Wins off Normal Damage: 7
Losses to Damage: 1
Losses to Other: 3
Strategy:
Early Game: Ramp!
The first thing you should notice is that theres a lot of mana doubling in this deck. Since our general can basically make itself bigger by killing itself, having double, triple, even quintuple mana is going to benefit us way more than any other player. This means we can play some fun symetrical mana doubling effects that are cheap and easy to tutor. Doubling/tripling the mana is key to casting huge spells and doing crazy things in this deck.
Mid Game: Cast Threats
Once you spew out a bunch of mana, you want to throw down a bunch of threats on board. You can do this with or without Marath. Usually I like to cast marath at least once on turn 3 or 4 and throw him under the bus just to get him to 5 casting cost. He is pretty underwhelming at 3 late game. This also allows you to keep CA.
Late Game: Recover and Regroup
This deck is hella resiliant. A wrath will hit the field and wipe away your guys, but this deck has plenty of ammo to just spew out one to three more threats immediatley after a wrath. Not to mention Armageddon effects don't work very well agaisnt it either with the combination of mana doubling and Life from the Loam + Crucible of Worlds. You should be able to exhaust your opponents resources quickly and overrun them with tokens and fatties.
Card Breakdown:
Ramp Package:
Sol Ring, Grim Monolith - I chose not to include Mana Vault because I never wanted to pay the four to untap it. Monolith is much more flexible.
Exploration, Burgeoning - This card is just too good to not throw in the deck. Although It always sucks to dump your hand of lands and then top deck nothing, because then everyone thinks you are up to no good with your turbo-land stuff.
Farseek, Sakura-Tribe ElderCultivate, Kodama's Reach - Basic early land tutors. These aren't great cards to see but since we can't fill the deck with sol rings and explorations these are the second best thing.
Bloom Tender - This was great in Mayael, because it allowed for a turn 4 activation. The same applies here with Marath. You can cast this guy turn 2, then turn 3 cast Marath, and you have the 3 mana open now with Bloom tender to make tokens/deal damage/pump something. (probably the first 2)
Knight of the Reliquary - This was put in because not only is it one of my favorite magic cards and I have a foil one, but because I have a lot of awesome utility lands that I want to tutor up, not to mention I run fetches. I felt like a one and done crop rotation wouldn't be as good as getting repeated use out of this bad girl.
Mana Flare, Mirari's Wake, Mana Reflection, Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger - These are all the mana doublers in the deck. Mana Flare is our friendliest one of the bunch. There used to be five, however It was cut for an extra creature tutor. I think four mana doublers is plenty.
Xenagos, the Reveler - This guy is essentially a ramp card. I rarely use him for anything but his +1, because its usually for at least 3 or 4 mana (if not something like 12). Sometimes I'll use the 0 if I want to get aggressive, but hes mostly Gaea's cradle number 2. Protect him and you'll get really big genesis waves.
Oracle of Mul Daya - I actually prefer Oracle over azusa, because azusa is often for me a one and done deal, especially when I am also running Exploration and Burgeoning. Oracle can thin the deck out fast, and put lands from the top of your deck on the battlefield. Thats pretty solid.
Theats:
Craterhoof Behemoth - Basically self explanatory. This guy should be in every token deck. He wins you the game unless someone fogs... which... god damn that's annoying when that happens... at least have the decency of just countering him... nooo gotta wait till I commit to combat... blah! Hoof hates fogs.
Dragon Broodmother, Avenger of Zendikar - Lets make tokens!
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - I like packing at least one eldrazi titan in my green decks. It protects me against certain discard and mill strategies and Kozi draws me cards too. He's a good guy. He's one of those guys that requires an answer, and if dropped early or late is always a great card to see.
Avacyn, Angel of Hope - I think making all your permanents indestructible is difficult to argue against.
Ogre Battledriver - Holy haste batman. I thought this guy wasn't that great until I tested him out in the deck. Sometimes you can just be 100% wrong about things. Thats why its always great to test, because this guy is absolutley nuts. Think about Avenger of Zendikar. Hes the only global haste outlet, but I feel like hes the only one I had room for, and the only one that I felt was good enough, and on par with the token theme.
Sylvan Primordial - Do you have forests in your deck? You do? Well. Meet your new best friend. And the source of your opponent's groans when he comes out turn 3-4 off of Natural Order. Its not a combo deck, but that doesn't mean we still can't do at least one degenerate thing.
Assemble the Legion - Tick tock tick tock. Your opponents won't be paying attention, when suddenly you have 5 muster counters on this guy. And by the way, the tokens have haste. Nuts! Awesome for sneaky overruns.
Woodfall Primus, Kitchen Finks - These are combo pieces primarily, but the Primus can be a great beater too. Comboing off is difficult in this deck (and I would rather it be more difficult, as I don't aim to win that way unless I have to), so these aren't always auto tutors like in a normal combo deck.
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite - This card pumps ups your dudes, and can potentially be a sweeper on your opponents boards. Pretty straight forward.
Gahiji Honored One - Another anthemy effect, except its naya's edric. A great political tool, however to be honest this is mostly a flavor inclusion. If you are looking to be super optimized and competitive I'd definitely leave this guy out.
Other Stuff:
Greater Good - "Sacrifice Marath: Refill your hand." Also comes in handy when a blue mage is trying to steal your big guys away from you.
Mentor of the Meek, Skullclamp - Token based draw engines are really powerful in this deck, especially with Marath. I actually prefer having Mentor of the Meek out over the clamp. Keeping the tokens in play is important for overrun and getting damage in with pumps/anthems.
Ashnod's Altar - Basically free mana, and a combo enabler. This and Goblin Bombardment are the optimal sac outlets when you are trying to use persist creatures to combo kill. Goblin Bombardment does infinite damage, Ashnod's Altar does infinite mana. Take your pick.
Primeval Bounty - This card is absolutley nuts in here. You can cast it, then load a bunch of counters on Marath. All the while you are gaining life, and making 3/3s while you cast your bombs. Crazy good card!
Sun Titan, Crucible of Worlds - We need to be able to come back from mass LD. The ability to recur fetch lands and cycling lands is also nice. Also Strip Mine lock if you need it. Sun Titan helps get back Kitchen finks and Eternal Witness as well, which are both super important cards in the deck.
Oblation, Chaos Warp, Unexpectedly Absent - These hit problem cards and tuck those pesky voltron generals. Use these cards wisely. There isn't a lot of spot removal in this deck. This is the deck that is the target of all the spot removal.
Sterling Grove, Privileged Position - Getting one of these out is good. Getting both out at once is hilarious. Sterling Grove is actually really great in this deck since there's now so many enchantments, and a lot of them are game winners too. Protecting them is sometimes more important than protecting our creatures. I'd sooner let all my creatures die than have Mana Reflection be vulnerable.
Eternal Witness, Praetor's Counsel - Do I even need to say why? These cards are nuts. Best recursion green can offer. I have yet to run a deck with green that didn't have both of these in them. (except for a mono green primal surge deck I once ran).
Why isn't X in the deck?
Earthcraft, Mana Echoes - Avoiding the easy run of the mill Marath combos.
Rhys the Redeemed - She doesn't work for what I am doing. I would much rather play an overrun sort of ability and just kill everyone, which is normally what I do.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion - So many elspeths! I had her in my Ertai, the Corrupted deck. I had all the elspeths in there. I would get elspeth flooded. Her minus ability kills most of my big token generator guys unfortunatley. And I like tirel better for this sort of build. The lifegain really helps.
Wurmcoil Engine, Requiem Angel - We tend to like proactive strategies in our playgroup. There's usually 1 control player vs 3 aggro/midrange players. There's not as many wipes hitting the board as in normal playgroups I guess so this guy isn't necessary. The ability to constantly recast Marath also generates CA, which means we can hold threats in our hand too and force wipes with walkers, enchantments and marath alone. Then BOOM avacyn and kozilek hit the field. Having two 3/3s or a bunch of 1/1s would just be overkill :P.
Suture Priest, Soul Warden, Essence Warden - These seem unnecessary, and for combo purposes only. When I want to gain life, I want to gain a lot of life in one or two triggers. These slots seem better suited as threats. I can see why youd include these as to gain infinite life, but if you are in a meta that actually permits you to gain infinite life, then they can probably deal infinite damage right back at you. So its pointless almost. True Conviction is way better. Its threatening and says "I'm going to murder your face all the way to value town." These girls say "I'm going to gain... you some life..." and thats all they do. Except maybe suture priest. Maybe.
Change Log
10/21
-1 Burgeoning
-3 Rings of Brighthearth
-4 Triumph of the Hordes
-2 Eladmri's Call
+7 Vicious Shadows
+6 True Conviction
+3 Oblation
+4 Oracle of Mul Daya
10/27/2013
-5 Zhur-Taa Ancient
-7 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
-3 Krosan Grip
-5 Primal Vigor
-1 Path to Exile
+2 Goblin Bombardment
+2 Unexpectedly Absent
+4 Natural Order
+3 Mentor of the Meek
+6 Aurelia, the Warleader
10/30/2013
-5 Mycoloth
-6 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
-7 Regal Force
+2 Sterling Grove
+4 Ogre Battledriver
+5 Assemble the Legion
11/14/2013
-1 Mirri's Guile
-2 Life from the Loam
-3 Recross the Paths
-3 Aura Shards
-4 Nature's Call
-6 Dragonlair Spider
-6 Aurelia, the Warleader
-6 True Conviction
-7 Vicious Shadows
+8 Woodfall Primus
+6 Sun Titan
+5 Cathars' Crusade
+5 Gahiji Honored One
+3 Kitchen Finks
+3 Rings of Brighthearth
+3 Knight of the Reliquary
+2 Eladamri's Call
+1 Burgeoning
Current
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
GWUPheldagriff Group HugGWU
RGRRuric Thar, the UnbowedGRG
UXBOona ControlUXB
Retired
RGWMayael, the AnimaRGW
XGXGlissa Sunseeker ComboXGX
Didn't have good experiences with Mycoloth, in my meta he will just get plowed the moment he has 2+ counters on him.
Since you are going the value route, may I suggest Beastmaster Ascension & Druid Repository. Beastmaster Ascension activates rather easily in Marath and Druid Repository is equivalent to "Whenever a creature attacks, untap one of our lands" but can store the mana for future use like a battery.
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
I think you skipped over the four fetch lands and three cycling lands.... Theres a reason I run Loam and Crucible. I don't really like creature recursion in big rampy Naya builds much as they don't do much on their own. I'd rather just cast another threat than try and get back old ones. If I'm going to get back my threats I'll get my entire yard back with Praetor's Counsel instead.
Depends on when he is dropping. Check graveyards. If you want a certain threat to stick on the field try and take a brief survey of what you think is in everyones hands.
I would have no idea what to take out for either of those cards. They seem to work well for more token heavy strategies. I think druid's repository could be worth it but not beastmasters ascension. I think that would paint too big of a target on my head if I didn't kill the table the turn it dropped.
Actually I think If i wanted a druids repository effect I would just add Earthcraft. It drops earlier and works better with my mana doubling. I think I have one in my binder... If I didn't trade it off. I hope I didn't. That could be a possibility.
Current
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
GWUPheldagriff Group HugGWU
RGRRuric Thar, the UnbowedGRG
UXBOona ControlUXB
Retired
RGWMayael, the AnimaRGW
XGXGlissa Sunseeker ComboXGX
eg. Crucible of Worlds as part of the 3 cards being dredged in.
For threat sticking it highly depends on the playgroup we are in. In my playgroup generally cards (especially creatures) that only do something during the next upkeep are considered as card disadvantage due to the number of sweeps/targetted removal the meta has. Don't be surprised that my opponents will Damnation the moment a 0/2 enchantress hits the field, or Wrath of God if the only creature on board is a Noble Hierarch. Sweeps are aplenty here (Previously my Karador deck runs 8 sweeps minimum), hence running cards like Deranged Hermit is actually more worth it than Mycoloth for me.
Another card I think will be a natural fit for us is Natural Order, the tokens created from Marath is Green, so we don't really have to worry about having a green creature to sacrifice.
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
Worked fine for me in Mayael even after I cut Sun Titan. I don't use it much as an engine as a way to get back into the game after an Armageddon effect or a way to recur my fetch lands once or twice. Plus I have Mirri's Guile and Sensei's Divining Top to check my top 3 if its really an issue.
Thats weird dude. How do games go anywhere?
... So I sort of forgot that card existed I need to get a copy for this. THanks.
Current
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
GWUPheldagriff Group HugGWU
RGRRuric Thar, the UnbowedGRG
UXBOona ControlUXB
Retired
RGWMayael, the AnimaRGW
XGXGlissa Sunseeker ComboXGX
Well, in my meta everything goes. We have crazy fast plays like Sharuum infinite by turn 3, Rafiq attacking for lethal by turn 4 or my enchantress.dec going off 1 turn after I cast my 1st enchantress netting 5+ cards in turn 3. All powered by mana crypt and gang.
Hence most of the time the 1st sweep will occur within the 1st 5 turns. Which is why creatures that have abilities like "During your upkeep, do XXX" have very low value in my playgroup as they usually don't last long enough to see their very 1st upkeep.
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
I did the Damnation on Enchantress being the only creature on board...cause I've seen how the the Enchantress deck can go nuts really fast.
What he failed to mention about that the *** on Noble Hierarch being the only creature on board, is that there was a sword of feast & famine(or was it fire & ice) on board, with the threat of casting Rafiq, equipping sword on Noble Hierarch and swinging with double strike + exalted next turn.
There was this time when it was turn 3 or 4, Rafiq was casted. I had Black Sun Zenith in hand, enough to bring Rafiq down to 1/1, but not to kill it. So, I decide to hold back. Bad move. Got promptly pwnt by two Rafiq attacks due to a Time Warp. I really should've Black Sun for 2 that time.
And that's how our meta rolls...
... Seems like an unfortunate meta. We all collectively decided that we actually like playing magic, so we don't really play infinite combos or super hyper aggressive decks. They usually get hated out fast. As someone who has piloted decks like that before they are only fun for the pilot, and sometimes that's not even true. No one likes the game just going "it's over he won." It's a poor way to play. If there is a combo running amok, its not 2 cards and its just being used by a control player or group hug player to wrap things up.
I think I had the worst deck out of all of them... My general was Dosan, the Falling Leaf a few times I goth 13 mana turn 4 so I casted him with no responses and then played primal surge, dumping my entire deck on the field. It wasn't that satisfying. It wasn't challenging or engaging either. I cast my combo. I win. It's bland.
Hence, my card choices for this deck. One of the nice things about it is I don't even need my general to operate at all. He is really just there to help make the deck more awesome, aside from always having a dude to cast turn 3.
Current
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
GWUPheldagriff Group HugGWU
RGRRuric Thar, the UnbowedGRG
UXBOona ControlUXB
Retired
RGWMayael, the AnimaRGW
XGXGlissa Sunseeker ComboXGX
Current
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
GWUPheldagriff Group HugGWU
RGRRuric Thar, the UnbowedGRG
UXBOona ControlUXB
Retired
RGWMayael, the AnimaRGW
XGXGlissa Sunseeker ComboXGX
It all boils down to the mindset of the players in the meta. Our playgroup like playing magic too and we understand that infinite combos, hyper aggressive decks are all part of the MTG game. We like to embrace the entirety of MTG whole, not just certain parts of it which we prefer. Hence all strategies goes in our meta, from Stax, prison to MLD. Whatever legal in MTG is legit in our strategies.
As for how fast our games end, they usually end at around turn 12-15, which is considered fine for us. Games need to end somewhere, whether it is via attacking with swarms, taxing everyone to conceding, or doing infinte combos. If one can actually pull off an infinite in our meta, his deck+piloting skills is good. There are so many disrupters all around in the playgroup that it is actually quite hard to assemble a game winning combo. Games are exciting, and has lots of crucial moments where there are many many hard decisions to make (like countering opponent A and B will win via infinite, but if let opponent A go but will cripple both you and B)
Sad to say, there is one kind of strategy that is hated the most in our meta although everything is legit, the "I am winning yet I want to delay the game further" strategy. Usually this is more of the player's personality than the cards itself.
Personally for me I also find that iWin one-cards are boring too, hence I don't usually use Primal Surge, Tooth & Nail or Sylvan Primordial.
I like true conviction too, but the WWW cost makes it really hard to cast in a tri-color deck. If only erebos's whip is white...
I will drop Mirri's Guile for Goblin Bombardment. Mirri's Guile is very often rendered useless when Sylvan library or Sensei's Divning Top is on board.
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
Nope. Marath's ability is worded as "X enters the battlefield with", more like a static ability that comes with the card as it ETB. It isn't a delayed triggered ability that uses the stack. Same case as how hydras are not affected by Torpor Orb.
Torpor Orb only affects abilities worded as "When X enters the battlefield, do Y".
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
Didn't catch that. Thought Marath said "When" for some reason. Maybe I should actually read the card and not assume. Oh well good catch.
I updated the list. Added and removed some cards. The deck is running very smooth now. Starting to get very consistent.
Current
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
GWUPheldagriff Group HugGWU
RGRRuric Thar, the UnbowedGRG
UXBOona ControlUXB
Retired
RGWMayael, the AnimaRGW
XGXGlissa Sunseeker ComboXGX
Kitchen Finks, Woodfall Primus, Cathars' Crusade and possibly Sun Titan are all going into the deck. Rings of Brighthearth might also come back (+)
True Conviction, Aurelia Warleader, Vicious Shadows, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, Mirri's Guile and Dragonlair Spider are all possibilities to get the axe here. (-)
So any suggestions on what should get the axe and what should come in? I haven't gotten to playtest with any people because I've been busy with school. Only on my own time playing solitaire.
EDIT:
to clarify, these would be the combos that would be in the deck (all 3 cards except 1):
Sac Outlet + Cathars' Crusade + Woodfall Primus = Blow stuff up/all dudes are giant
Sac Outlet + Cathars' Crusade + Kitchen Finks = Infinite life/all dudes are giant
Marath, Will of the Wild + Doubling Season + Ashnod's Altar + 1 = infinite marath
Grim Monolith + Mana Reflection = Infinite mana
Current
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
GWUPheldagriff Group HugGWU
RGRRuric Thar, the UnbowedGRG
UXBOona ControlUXB
Retired
RGWMayael, the AnimaRGW
XGXGlissa Sunseeker ComboXGX