This thread contains the results for week 2 of All Blind Tournament #13 and is the start of week 3 of ABT#13.
Week 2 of ABT#13
This round was 5CB Modern Monstrosity.
Only cards contained in sets legal in Modern may be submitted.
Each creature has "{N}: Monstrosity N", where N is that creature's converted mana cost.
Each player starts the game with an emblem that has "At the beginning of your upkeep, populate, then proliferate."
The Entries
01 Draco9 :: "No Tokens Plz" Academy Ruins / Chimeric Mass / Izzet Boilerworks / Leyline of Singularity / Pithing Needle Nice to see you again! As to the deck: spending two cards on the recursion engine seems expensive when you can't use that engine proactively. I think a second win condition would have served you better.
02 aurorasparrow :: "" Gemstone Mine / Nature's Claim / Path to Exile / Pithing Needle / Slippery Bogle I'm not sure how much it helped, but I love Gemstone Mine in this deck. It's strictly better than any other land for producing one mana of any color, but it's not obvious.
04 bateleur :: "Monsterless" Blazing Shoal / Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai / Inkmoth Nexus / Mental Misstep / Nicol Bolas Gods' Eye with populate is an interesting answer to Misguided Rage, but there was probably a better card for the slot. Misstep already counters Crack the Earth, and that's more likely to be an issue since it's faster and easier for decks to afford. Shoal seems well-positioned, though.
05 cruelshy :: "" Blighted Agent / Cavern of Souls / Mental Misstep / Noble Hierarch / Snapback I like that this deck can outrace a lot of other decks by virtue of having two threats. Snapback seems narrow, but it's surprisingly good against Blazing Shoal, and it lets the deck work, even though one of your threats depends on the other surviving.
08 MyNameIsFourteen :: "Mono U Counters (no, the other kind)" Island / Inkmoth Nexus / Invisible Stalker / Leyline of Singularity / Snapback I love the fact that your deck and cruelshy's are so similar, and that you both managed to be on the infect/damage plan, while playing differing 1/1's for 1U. I'm going to have a hard time remembering which is which.
09 WhammWhamme :: "" Academy Ruins / Dreadship Reef / Ratchet Bomb / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre / Vault Skirge What a relief to see a storage land deck! Vault Skirge is brutal, and Ratchet Bomb is really good at destroying all of the hexproof creatures. I'll only add that I was trying to come up with a decent Beast Within / Ratchet Bomb deck, and replacing Ulamog with Beast here would give you a good answer to lands. Skirge is really what makes it all work. I love it.
There were 10 players with 45 matches and 90 total games.
8 hands ended in a draw. 4 matches had at least one draw.
That's 9% of all games, averaging 0.8 games per player.
The following player(s) had the most drawn games, with 2 total draws: aurorasparrow : bateleur
10 matches were a 3-3 split.
That's 22% of all matches, averaging 1 matches per player.
The following player(s) had the most split matches, with 3 total splits: MyNameIsFourteen : DragonDart
36 matches were a 6-0 sweep.
That's 80% of all matches, averaging 3.6 matches per player.
The following player(s) had the most 6-0 match sweeps, at 7 total sweeps: cruelshy
There were 34 unique cards submitted, out of 50 total.
11 card(s) were repeated:
Next Round will be '3CB LR Fading'.
Entries are due Tuesday morning at 4:00 am GMT.
3CB LR Fading
Description:
This came about because I wanted to encourage people to play big cards.
Deck size:
20
3 cards.
Land Rule:
20
Basic Land Rule: Any player may play a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land.
Special Rules:
Each nonland permanent that doesn't have Fading or Vanishing enters the battlefield with a number of fade counters on it equal to its converted mana cost and has Fading 0.
Entrants can't submit instant or sorcery cards.
Nonland sources can't produce mana.
An effect can't put a card that isn't the source of that effect onto the battlefield from a zone other than exile.
An effect can't cause an opponent of the controller of that effect to discard a card or counter or exile a spell that opponent controls.
Blind Magic is an online Magic format played here on the forums. Players play with an extremely limited deck size, such as 3 cards. Players begin with their entire deck (ie: those three cards) in hand and have no library (players don't lose when they fail to draw a card because of this). Due to the extremely limited number of play options given with their small deck size, games are calculated, rather then played, with an absolute determined winner (or a tie). Each player plays a match of two games against each other player who submitted - once going first, and once going second. Wins, losses, and ties for each of those two games are calculated by the moderator and players. The actual fun of the game comes from trying to decide which cards you will be playing.
What is the All Blind Tournament?
The All Blind Tournament is a four-week XCB tournament, which spans all card blind formats and embraces a progressive anti-metagame. For each week of the four-week tournament, a new XCB format is announced for players to enter. Players compete for points (similiar to the PotM points for previous XCB games) each round. At the end of the four-week tournament, the player who has accumulated the most points over the four weeks wins the tournament, and receives a real-world prize.
Basic Rules of All Blind Tournament
Below lies the rules of ABT written in laymen's terms for ease of understanding.
While a comprehensive rule system exists, new players and quick glances are best left for this basic explanation.
Overview
The All Blind Tournament (ABT) is a Magic tournament that consists of four rounds of X Card Blind (XCB), run entirely within this forum. To compete, entrants submit decks containing X cards which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
Deck Construction Rules
1. A deck must contain exactly X cards.
2. A deck may contain any number of copies of any Vintage-legal card, but can't contain any cards on the ABT Banned List.
3. A player's deck must not enable that player to win the game before an opponent's second turn.
4. A player's deck must not enable that player to force an opponent to lose any cards in his or her hand before an opponent's second turn.
5. A player's deck must enable that player to win the game.
Deck Submission Rules
6. An entrant submits his or her deck to the ABT moderator by private message (pm).
Playing the Decks
7. Entrants don't actually play their decks, because game results can be determined theoretically.
8. Each player starts the game with the cards in his or her deck in his or her hand.
9. A player doesn't lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
10. A random effect resolves in favor of the opponent of the owner of that effect.
11. Players know all information that would normally be concealed from them.
12. Each player plays one two-game match against each other player, and each player is the starting player once per match.
Points
13. The entrant with the most points in a round is the round winner. For each match, an entrant earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. However, an entrant earns only 2 points for a split match (each player wins a game).
14. The entrant with the most points in the four rounds comprising the ABT is the tournament winner.
Extra Rules
15. Some optional rules may be used; see Optional Rules.
16. The Basic Rules don't cover every issue. For in-depth rules, see Comprehensive Rules.
Optional Rules
Land Rule
Any player may play a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land.
Expanded Land Rule
Any player may play a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns from his or her hand.
Alternative Land Rule
If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land card of his or her choice from outside the game into his or her hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of his or her first turn.
Sanctioned Magic Format
A deck may contain only cards contained in sets legal in the specified format.
Counter Rule
Until each player has completed two turns, each player ignores any part of an effect of a source an opponent owns that would counter a spell that player controls.
Life Rule
If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game. Determine whether a deck enables the player of that deck to win the game as though this rule didn't exist.
Special Format
Other rules are specified.
XCB Comprehensive Rules
Below lies the comprehensive rules system for the ABT.
Rules are written for precision and game clarification. They are not written for ease of reading.
Game Rules
1.1. There are many versions of XCB. Each version has a name, of the form XCB 'Land Rule' 'Sanctioned Magic Format' 'Special Format' '(Bonus)' 'Counter Rule' 'Life Rule'.
1.1a. X is a number.
1.1b. 'Land Rule' can be LR, ELR, ALR, or nothing. LR indicates that the basic land rule is in effect, ELR indicates that the expanded land rule is in effect, and ALR indicates that the alternative land rule is in effect (see Rule 1.7).
1.1c. 'Sanctioned Magic Format' can be the name of a sanctioned Magic constructed format or nothing. The name of a format indicates that only cards contained in sets legal in that format may be submitted. This is an exception to rule 2.3c.
1.1d. 'Special Format' can be the name of at least one special format or nothing. The name of a special format indicates that the special format in effect (see Rule 1.8).
1.1e. 'Bonus' can be (Bonus) or nothing. (Bonus) modifies the preceding special format, indicating that an entrant must not follow the rules of that format, but that entrant will earn a specified number of bonus points if he or she does (see Rule 2.4f).
1.1f. 'Counter Rule' can be C or nothing. C indicates that the counter rule is in effect (see Rule 1.9).
1.1g. 'Life Rule' can be LF, AL, or nothing. LF indicates that the life rule is in effect and AL indicates that the alternative life rule is in effect (see Rule 1.10).
1.2. Decks are not played, but are scored as though they were. The player of a deck is the entrant who submitted that deck.
1.3. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
1.3a. Ignore any part of an instruction that isn't covered by these rules or the rules of Magic.
1.4. An entrant's deck contains exactly X cards (see Rule 1.1).
1.4a. A player's opening hand contains the cards in his or her deck.
1.4b. Players don't draw hands or mulligan.
1.4c. Players don't have sideboards.
1.5. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
1.5a. A player doesn't lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.6. A cost or effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the player who paid the cost or the owner of the source of the effect instead.
1.7. Some versions of XCB use a land rule.
1.7a. This is the basic land rule (LR). Any player may play a basic land or basic snow land of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land.
1.7b. This is the expanded land rule (ELR). Any player may play a basic land or basic snow land of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns from his or her hand.
1.7c. This is the alternative land rule (ALR). If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land or basic snow land card of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game into his or her hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of his or her first turn.
1.8. Some versions of XCB use a special format. A special format is an extra set of rules. These rules overwrite any other applicable rules. A non-comprehensive list of special formats is maintained here.
1.8a. Some special formats cause players to draw hands. The drawn cards become part of that player's opening hand.
1.8b. Some special formats generate continuous effects. Continuous effects generated by special formats are applied in the order those formats are listed in the XCB version name, before any other effects that could be applied in a layer.
1.8c. Some special formats require an entrant to make some number of decisions in addition to or instead of submitting a deck. An entrant's submission is that entrant's deck and any decisions that entrant makes. An entrant's submission must not violate rule 2.3 if all instances of the word 'deck' in that rule are replaced with 'submission'.
1.8d. Some special formats refer to decks that obtain or could obtain results. Saying that a deck obtains or could obtain a result means that the player of that deck obtains or could obtain that result in a game or match against another player (see Rule 1.11). If a deck obtains or could obtain a result against another deck, then the player of that deck obtains or could obtain that result against the player of the other deck.
1.9. Some versions of XCB use the counter rule.
1.9a. This is the counter rule (C). Until each player has completed two turns, each player ignores any part of an effect of a source an opponent owns that would counter a spell that player controls.
1.10. Some versions of XCB use a life rule.
1.10a. This is the life rule (LF). If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game. Determine whether a deck enables the player of that deck to win a match as though this rule didn't exist (see Rule 2.3b).
1.10b. This is the alternative life rule (AL). If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game.
1.11. Each player plays one match against each other player.
1.11a. Each match has two games.
1.11b. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
1.11c. Games are played with perfect information; players know the identities of face-down cards and cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
1.11d. Games are played optimally. The best outcome for a player is to win the game and the worst outcome is to lose the game.
1.11e. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
Tournament Rules
2.1. Entrants compete in a competition.
2.1a. The shortest type of competition is a round. Typically, each round lasts one week.
2.1b. The ABT is a competition consisting of four rounds.
2.2. An entrant submits his or her deck to the ABT moderator.
2.2a. An entrant submits his or her deck by private message (pm).
2.2b. An entrant may submit multiple decks, but only the most recently submitted deck is counted.
2.2c. An illegal deck is not counted. At the moderator’s discretion, an illegal deck may be replaced by a similar deck – in which any cards causing that deck to be illegal have been removed or replaced.
2.2d. The moderator determines the result of each match. Entrants may challenge results, but not after the results of the first round of a new ABT has been posted, except at the moderator's discretion.
2.2e. An entrant may name his or her deck. If an entrant doesn't, then the moderator may name it.
2.3. Decks are subject to some restrictions.
2.3a. An entrant may not submit a deck that could enable the player of that deck to win the game or force any cards in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's second turn. A card is forced to change zones if the owner of that card could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in either that card changing zones or that player losing the game before his or her second turn. Ignore this rule in the following cases:
i. All cards in an opponent's hand that would be forced to change zones would not be cast by that opponent and would enter the battlefield under that opponent's control. For example, a 4CB deck with two copies of Black Lotus could contain Stronghold Gambit but could not contain Wild Evocation.
ii. All cards in an opponent's hand that weren't there as a result of a cost or effect that opponent controlled that would be forced to change zones during the resolution of a spell or ability would be in that opponent's hand after that spell or ability resolved. For example, a 3CB deck could contain Timetwister and Black Lotus but an 8CB deck could not.
iii. Cards in an opponent's hand would be forced to change zones only if cards in that opponent's hand that started outside the game would cause that opponent's maximum hand size at the start of the game to be exceeded. For example, a 3CB LR deck could contain two copies of Ancestral Recall.
iv. The rule would be violated only in a game that existed as a result of an effect that resolved not before the specified turn or until each player had completed the specified number of turns that restarted the game or created a subgame. For example, a 2CB LR deck could contain Karn Liberated.
2.3b. An entrant may not submit a deck that wouldn't enable the player of that deck to win a match (see Rule 2.4d) against the player of at least one deck satisfying all rules.
2.3c. A deck may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1). Except as modified by a special format, all cards used in a game must be legal in Vintage.
2.3d. A deck may contain any number of copies of any card that will become legal in Vintage upon release of a set that's been revealed fully and officially since the start of the round.
2.3e. A deck may not contain any cards on the ABT Banned List.
2.4. Points determine round standings.
2.4a. Entrants are ranked – first to last – in order of decreasing number of points.
2.4b. For each match, an entrant earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game.
2.4c. The combined result of both games in a match is called a match result. Possible match results are: 6 – two wins, 4 – a win and a draw, 3 or 2 or S – a win and a loss, 2 – two draws, 1 – a draw and a loss, and 0 – two losses.
2.4d. Some match results are also denoted by names: two wins – match win, a win and a loss – split match, two draws – draw, and two losses – match loss. An entrant wins the match if he or she wins both games, splits the match if he or she wins a game and loses a game, draws a match if he or she draws both games, and loses the match if he or she loses both games.
2.4e. An entrant earns only 2 points for a split match. This is an exception to rule 2.4b.
2.4f. An entrant may earn a number of bonus points defined by a special format. An entrant earns these points in addition to any other points.
2.4g. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Its rows represent entrants and its columns represent those entrants' opponents. An entrant's total number of points is listed at the end of his or her row.
2.5. The entrant with the most tournament points over the course of the ABT is the tournament winner.
2.5a. Each round, an entrant receives tournament points equal to his or her average match result for that round multiplied by 100, rounded to the nearest integer or some number of decimal places chosen at the moderator's discretion. For example, an entrant scoring 6-6-6-6-X-0-0-0 in a round with 8 entrants receives 340 tournament points ((6 + 6 + 6 + 6) / (8 - 1) x 100).
2.5b. If two or more entrants would win the ABT, then each of those entrants competes in additional rounds specified by the moderator, until only one entrant has the most tournament points. Each additional round contains only the entrants who have the most tournament points. The moderator may specify a limit to the number of additional rounds.
3. Prize Rules
3.1. A prize shall be given to the tournament winner.
3.1a. The winner of the tournament shall be given the prize described within the tournament, or a suitable replacement upon the tournament's end.
3.1b. If the winner of the tournament has won two or more tournaments, then the highest ranked entrant who hasn't won two or more tournaments shall be given the prize instead.
3.1c. If the winner was a moderator for two or more rounds of the tournament, then the highest ranked entrant who wasn't the moderator for two or more rounds of that tournament shall be given the prize instead. This is to ensure fair play.
3.1d. An entrant may decline the prize. If he or she does, then that entrant may designate another entrant to receive the prize.
3.1e. Entrants under the age of 18 are ineligible for prizes, due to federal laws regarding the sharing of personal information of minors.
3.1f. In the event that a prize can't be given to an entrant, the moderator will do his best to find another suitable way to reward that entrant.
3.1g. No prize is 100% guaranteed, but is assumed upon a good faith basis. Let's face it, with international customs, weird laws, etc, we can't guarantee anything. We'll do our best.
3.2. As a prized tournament, special scoring rules and practices are in place.
3.2a. Entrants are responsible for their own scoring. Assistance will be given, especially to new entrants, but it is ultimately up to each entrant to ensure his or her scoring is completed and accurate.
3.2b. Incomplete scores are considered losses, even to both players in a match if necessary. This is to make sure a winner is determined at the end of a tournament.
3.2c. The moderator always has the final word regarding scores and rules. Entrants may question any scoring the moderator does, until the moderator says that a match's scoring is final.
3.2d. The moderator may, at his or her discretion, determine a match is too difficult to calculate and give it a tie score, or his or her best guess. Again, this is final.
3.2e. Once a winner has been announced as final, that entrant shall receive the prize, even if errors in scoring or points are shown later.
Permanently Banned Cards
The following cards are permanently banned in the All Blind Tournament.
Each round will have an additional banned list that extends beyond, but always includes, these cards.
Previous standings will always be posted below the opening post of each week's thread.
Standings will be updated after the current week has been completed and score checking has finished.
I find the results of this round hilarious. Some of you may already know that I despise narrow answers, and yet I inadvertently created a round where the most popular strategy by far was to jam a bunch of that type of card into a deck. Judging by the number of Pithing Needles, I wasn't the only one who expected a lot of storage lands; It hits montrosity, too, but I doubt that's ever worth a card by itself. If I had submitted, I would have tried hard to make Beast Within work.
Anyway, props to everyone for sending your decks in early. I received all but nine of these decks when there were still three days left to go in the round, and the last deck was still well within the submission deadline. Everyone was on time last round, too, just generally much closer to the deadline. I've also had to send out very few corrections. Thanks, and keep up the good work!
I'll update results this weekend based on what gets posted, and filling in whatever is left. Deck comments are up, but they may be more generic than usual, as I can only give my best guess about how a deck will perform.
The goal with this upcoming round is to see a lot of high-costing cost stuff, but I have know idea how it'll actually work out. Rather than try to fix the safe rule for this round, I've applied the parts of it that seemed most applicable.
Also, I haven't updated the rules yet to make this clear, but starting with this round, if a player would be able to cause a draw by taking infinite turns, that player can't. They'll have to choose a number of turns to take, and then pass instead. Infinite loops involving two players will still end in a draw. This ruling is to address a discussion carried out in the previous ABT thread.
01 Draco9: Growing Vault Skirge outraces growing Chimeric Mass, and Ratchet Bomb can clear out Pithing Needle long enough to get Monstrous.
6-0
02 aurorasparrow: ...just enough answers. If I'd doubled up on ANY kind of threat... *sigh*
0-6
03 knobbodi: ...darn it, no answer to Marit Lage.
0-6
04 bateleur: Skirge can block Nexus. This buys time for the long-game Ulamog win.
6-0
05 cruelshy: Vault Skirge + monstrosify can outrace one hit from the Agent + proliferate AND the hierarch at once... and Ratchet Bomb means it only gets one swing.
:
Swing for 4 (4 poison)
(boom, drop skirge)
Proliferate (5)
Swing for 3 (17 life)
Proliferate (6)
Swing for 5 (12 life)
Proliferate (7)
Swing for 6 (6 life)
Proliferate (8)
Swing for 7 (death)
6-0
06 Reyemile: ...so complex. I THINK it boils down to a stable 2/2 lifelinker outracing a growing Hex Parasite that has to spend 2 life per turn to stop the lifelinker from getting out of control. (with Pithing Needle and Nature's Claim tag-teaming to keep Ulamog out of the picture, as he just wins if I can use my storage land...)
6-0?
07 tomsloger: He doesn't really interact with me.
6-0
08 MyNameIsFourteen: It's a race. I think it chops 3-3.
4-1 - On the play I play Inkmoth and pass. He has only one land, so must choose between holding Path to Exile mana up and casting Pithing Needle. I Mental Misstep whichever he chooses, then hit him for 9 poison. Proliferate wins on my next turn. On the draw I must counter Pithing Needle on his first turn, which leaves him with an answer to Nexus. However, he cannot resolve Bogle safely and so never gets to kill me since I just never activate the Nexus.
03 knobbodi :: ""
Dark Depths / Engineered Explosives / Mental Misstep / Thespian's Stage / Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
6-0 - Opponent's combo is too slow and answers not relevant.
0-6 - I cannot Mental Misstep his Noble Hierarch because of Cavern. He can therefore save his Misstep to discard to Snapback. This blanks Blazing Shoal, so I lose the poison race, even on the play.
06 Reyemile :: ""
Hex Parasite / Illness in the Ranks / Nature's Claim / Overgrown Tomb / Pithing Needle
4-1 - On the play I play Inkmoth and pass. He has only one land, so must choose between holding Claim mana up and casting Pithing Needle. I Mental Misstep whichever he chooses, then hit him for 9 poison. Proliferate wins on my next turn. On the draw I must counter Pithing Needle on his first turn, which leaves him with an answer to Nexus. However, he cannot resolve Parasite safely and so never gets to kill me since I just never activate the Nexus.
07 tomsloger :: ""
Cavern of Souls / Leyline of Sanctity / Leyline of Singularity / Mental Misstep / Slippery Bogle
6-0 - Finally, someone without Pithing Needle!
08 MyNameIsFourteen :: "Mono U Counters (no, the other kind)"
Island / Inkmoth Nexus / Invisible Stalker / Leyline of Singularity / Snapback
0-6 - This is a surprisingly complex match, but I think he wins even when I'm on the play by gaining a turn in the Nexus race using Snapback even when I don't use Shoal, which is safe provided he waits until the last possible turn. I cannot then redeploy my Nexus on defence because I lack the mana to activate it.
09 WhammWhamme :: ""
Academy Ruins / Dreadship Reef / Ratchet Bomb / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre / Vault Skirge
0-6 - I cannot stop Vault Skirge coming down for 1 mana since its CMC is 2! Ulamog kills me.
10 DragonDart :: ""
Blazing Shoal / Din of the Fireherd / Inkmoth Nexus / Molten Slagheap / Ratchet Bomb
3-3 - This is a very silly match!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
WhammWhamme, cruelshy gets 2 swings against you on the play (which kills you) because you have to tap ratchet bomb to put the first counter on it in order to proliferate. On the draw, he only gets one swing. Also, not that it really matters here, but his first swing is as a 5/5 (monstrosity with proliferate trigger on the stack plus exalted). Should be 3-3
EDIT: I'm dumb, you obviously activate ratchet bomb the turn you play it haha. But you still lose on the draw, because he snapbacks your skirge and you die to proliferate. (since your calculation is off in your post, you actually kill him with 9 poison, so that 1 turn spells victory for him)
Each nonland card that doesn't have Fading or Vanishing gains Fading N, where N is that card's converted mana cost.
...
All creature tokens lose haste.
Is it your intention that tokens are effectively out because they'll have fading 0 and never attack? If so I think you need to tweak your fading rule to apply to each permanent rather than each card. If not, do you think removing haste is really enough to nerf tokens in an otherwise all fading world?
knobbodi: Dark Depths / Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth / Thespian's Stage / Mental Misstep / Engineered Explosives
Vs Draco9:
Misstep needle, make Marit Lage before he can buy back and replay it. 6-0
Vs aurorasparrow:
Explosives needle (on my third turn so he can't nature's claim), counter path, Marit Lage him. 6-0
Vs bateleur
I die horribly to blazing shoal. 0-6
Vs cruelshy:
On the play, I can explode hierarch before he can be used to play agent. Snapback still stops me from actually winning the game though. 1-4
Vs Reyemile:
Misstep and explosives plus Marit Lage. 6-0
Vs tomsloger:
Marit Lage 6-0
Vs MyNameIsFourteen:
Snapback shuts me down, and explosives cannot stop nexus. 0-6
01 Draco9 :: "No Tokens Plz" Academy Ruins / Chimeric Mass / Izzet Boilerworks / Leyline of Singularity / Pithing Needle 6-0 If you needle the nexus then stalker will be able to block every turn until it swings for 20. If you needle the stalker, then nexus can race if I use snapback at the right moment (when the mass is a 6/6, I think)
04 bateleur :: "Monsterless" Blazing Shoal / Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai / Inkmoth Nexus / Mental Misstep / Nicol Bolas 6-0 Even on the draw, I snapback the first time you attack or try to block with your nexus, forcing in one damage from my nexus. Next turn your nexus is summoning sick, and from then on I can just block and trade while proliferate does the work.
05 cruelshy :: "" Blighted Agent / Cavern of Souls / Mental Misstep / Noble Hierarch / Snapback 0-6 Exalted is pretty awesome in the 'mirror', and so is a monstrous infect creature that can cancel out my +1/+1 counters and then deal several poison at once. GGs.
my play
1a nexus
1a tomb untapped (18) parasite
2a stalker
2b needle stalker
3a poison you [1]
3b monstrous parasite, attack for 3 (17)
4a attack while you're tapped out [2] [3]
4b you attack, I snap back removing leyline, you recast parasite
5a attack while you're tapped out [3] [4]
5b monstrosity and start attacking again (14)
6a attack while you're tapped out [5] [6]
6b attack for 4 (10)
7a [7]
7b attack for 5 (5)
8a [8]
8b attack for 6, chump with stalker
9a [9]
9b attack for 7, activate nexus to chump, you nature's claim, i go up to 9 and then down to 2
10a [10 poison wins]
you on the play
1a land, boggle
1b nexus
2a monstrous boggle in response to proliferate trigger (2/2), proliferate boggle (3/3) attack (17)
2b island, stalker
3a proliferate boggle to 4/4, attack (13)
3b monstrous stalker in response to proliferate trigger (3/3), proliferate stalker (4/4)
4b proliferate boggle to 5/5, attack (8)
4b proliferate stalker to 5/5, attack with nexus (1 poison)
5a proliferate boggle to 6/6, attack (2)
5b proliferate stalker to 6/6 and poison you (2 poison)
6a if you attack, activate nexus and double block (trade both my craeatures for yours)
repeat until poison has killed you
Well, I seem to have done better than last week, although I still managed to have one irrelevant card (Leyline could have been any blue card and not made any matches worse) Alas that everyone saw how good proliferate could be and hated on it instead of playing into it.
Is it your intention that tokens are effectively out because they'll have fading 0 and never attack? If so I think you need to tweak your fading rule to apply to each permanent rather than each card. If not, do you think removing haste is really enough to nerf tokens in an otherwise all fading world?
Yeah, it should be permanents. Thanks for catching this.
To everyone:
The round rules have been amended slightly. Originally, they said that "nonland cards" gained Fading. That's been changed to "nonland permanents".
On the draw, I get poisoned on your T2, and if I hold back to cast Din, you kill the token with Snapback and me with poison.
On the play, I attack first. If you let my Nexus through, I get in the first point of poison, which would mean I’d win a standoff even without Shoal. If you Snapback my Nexus to get in the first point of poison, then I can hold back and cast Din, which forces you to sacrifice a land (so your Nexus can’t block), and my Din tokens kill in three turns (5, 10, 15 starting the turn after I cast it), before I get 10 poison counters.
This match was more complicated than it appeared, so let me know if you see another line of play that I'm missing here.
If you Snapback my Nexus to get in the first point of poison, then I can hold back and cast Din, which forces you to sacrifice a land
Actually, the din kill is a bit slower than that since I can use Stalker to pay for the snapback and actually use the leyline so you don't get extra tokens, so I think that...oh, hey, Din kills land? <reads the card> Oh, well, GG then. 3-3
you on the play
0 leyline of singularity
1a nexus
1b nexus
2a slagheap, attack, snapback removing stalker
2b island, attack [1 poison]
3a nexus
3b proliferate [2 poison], you storage counter at EOT (1 storage)
4 we both proliferate, you make a storage [3 poison, 3 storage]
5 we both proliferate, you make a storage [4 poison, 5 storage]
6 we both proliferate, you make a storage [5 poison, 7 storage]
7a proliferate up to 8 storage on upkeep, din of the fireherd kills one of my lands
7b [6 poison]
8a attack with din and inkmoth nexus.[6-1 poison, 15 life]
8b proliferate [7-1 poison]
9a legend rule stops you from populating, proliferate poison on me [7-2 poison], attack with inkmoth both [7-3 poison, 10 life]
9b [8-3 poison]
10a populate poison, attack with din and inkmoth [8-5 poison, 5 life]
10b populate poison [9-5 poison, 5 life]
11a populate poison, attack with din and inkmoth [9-7 poison, 0 life]
noooooooo
EDIT: seems this was wrong, more discussion on page 2 of the thread.
01 Draco9 :: "No Tokens Plz"
6-0
Academy Ruins / Chimeric Mass / Izzet Boilerworks / Leyline of Singularity / Pithing Needle
Ratchet Bomb blows up Pithing Needle, then Shoal + Inkmoth.
02 aurorasparrow :: ""
4-1
Gemstone Mine / Nature's Claim / Path to Exile / Pithing Needle / Slippery Bogle
When I am on the play, he has to deal with my Nexus on T1, or die. If he holds back with Claim or Exile, he can never cast Bogle, I will amass counters on my land and eventually have enough to cast Din to force an answer, at which point he loses his only land, and I can kill with Nexus. Thus, he has to play Pithing Needle naming Inkmoth Nexus. After that, he can’t cast Bogle without being killed by Nexus/Shoal, so I amass counters on my storage land. When I have enough, I can cast Din, which destroys his land, and forces him to cast Path on the token. I can then attack freely with my Nexus and win.
When I am on the draw, he can cast Bogle T1, then hold mana open any time I would attack to use removal on my Nexus. I can put counters on my land, starting with one on T2. I will have an untapped storage land with 8 counters on it by turn 6, at which point I will be at1 life because of the bogle. I can then cast Din, forcing him to sacrifice the Bogle and his land, though he kills the token with Path. Then I would be able to kill him.
This means his optimal play on the play is to force a draw. He can cast Needle T1 naming Molten Slagheap, to prevent me from ever getting a counter on it. Then he can hold up mana indefinitely to Exile my Nexus if I attack. If I cast Ratchet Bomb, he can Claim it.
04 bateleur :: "Monsterless"
3-3
Blazing Shoal / Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai / Inkmoth Nexus / Mental Misstep / Nicol Bolas
Whoever swings first wins.
05 cruelshy :: ""
3-3
Blighted Agent / Cavern of Souls / Mental Misstep / Noble Hierarch / Snapback
On the draw, he gets in a hit with a monstrous Blighted Agent for 4 poison before I can get off a Ratchet Bomb for 2. I die of proliferation before I can kill him with Din.
On the play, I can Ratchet Bomb for 2 before he can attack with the Agent. I can’t use Shoal because of Snapback, but I can cast Din before he can kill me with the Hierarch (made easier because if he ever forgoes casting Agent to make Hierarch monstrous, I can blow it up with Bomb, and prevent him from ever playing the second threat), which frees me up to cast Shoal, or kill with horses.
06 Reyemile :: ""
Hex Parasite / Illness in the Ranks / Nature's Claim / Overgrown Tomb / Pithing Needle
6-0
He doesn’t have enough mana to answer all of my threats in sufficient time to save himself.
07 tomsloger :: ""
6-0
Cavern of Souls / Leyline of Sanctity / Leyline of Singularity / Mental Misstep / Slippery Bogle
Inkmoth + Shoal.
08 MyNameIsFourteen :: "Mono U Counters (no, the other kind)"
3-3
Island / Inkmoth Nexus / Invisible Stalker / Leyline of Singularity / Snapback
On the draw, I get poisoned on your T2, and if I hold back to cast Din, you kill the token with Snapback and me with poison.
On the play, I attack first. If you let my Nexus through, I get in the first point of poison, which would mean I’d win a standoff even without Shoal. If you Snapback my Nexus to get in the first point of poison, then I can hold back and cast Din, which forces you to sacrifice a land (so your Nexus can’t block), and my Din tokens kill in three turns (5, 10, 15 starting the turn after I cast it), before I get 10 poison counters.
09 WhammWhamme :: ""
6-0
Academy Ruins / Dreadship Reef / Ratchet Bomb / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre / Vault Skirge
Inkmoth + Shoal, Ratchet Bomb blows up Skirge. He can't Ratchet my Ratchet because it would kill his own Skirge.
DragonDart, even on the draw MyNameIsFourteen beats you. If you try to poison race he uses snapback to beat you. And if you charge up for din, he snapbacks your token and you die to proliferate.
06 Reyemile :: ""
Hex Parasite / Illness in the Ranks / Nature's Claim / Overgrown Tomb / Pithing Needle
6-0; Their answers don't stop my questions
07 tomsloger :: ""
Cavern of Souls / Leyline of Sanctity / Leyline of Singularity / Mental Misstep / Slippery Bogle
6-0; see their post for deets
08 MyNameIsFourteen :: "Mono U Counters (no, the other kind)"
Island / Inkmoth Nexus / Invisible Stalker / Leyline of Singularity / Snapback
6-0; see their post for deets
09 WhammWhamme :: ""
Academy Ruins / Dreadship Reef / Ratchet Bomb / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre / Vault Skirge
6-0; On the play I hit him for 5 poison before he blows up my agent. He hits me a few times but I can snapback his skirge before it kills me and proliferate him to death. On the draw I save the agent from ratchet bomb with snapback and kill him in 2 hits before he can respond.
10 DragonDart :: ""
Blazing Shoal / Din of the Fireherd / Inkmoth Nexus / Molten Slagheap / Ratchet Bomb
DragonDart, even on the draw MyNameIsFourteen beats you. If you try to poison race he uses snapback to beat you. And if you charge up for din, he snapbacks your token and you die to proliferate.
you on the play
0 leyline of singularity
1a nexus
1b nexus
2a slagheap, attack, snapback removing stalker
2b island, attack [1 poison]
3a nexus
3b proliferate [2 poison], you storage counter at EOT (1 storage)
4 we both proliferate, you make a storage [3 poison, 3 storage]
5 we both proliferate, you make a storage [4 poison, 5 storage]
6 we both proliferate, you make a storage [5 poison, 7 storage]
7a proliferate up to 8 storage on upkeep, din of the fireherd kills one of my lands
7b [6 poison]
8a attack with din and inkmoth nexus.[6-1 poison, 15 life]
8b proliferate [7-1 poison]
9a legend rule stops you from populating, proliferate poison on me [7-2 poison], attack with inkmoth both [7-3 poison, 10 life]
9b [8-3 poison]
10a populate poison, attack with din and inkmoth [8-5 poison, 5 life]
10b populate poison [9-5 poison, 5 life]
11a populate poison, attack with din and inkmoth [9-7 poison, 0 life]
noooooooo
you on the play
0 leyline of singularity
1a nexus
1b nexus
2a slagheap, attack, snapback removing stalker
2b island, attack [1 poison]
3a nexus
3b proliferate [2 poison], attack. Now you must choose to block or to get a storage counter. If you block, you'll never get din and both nexi will die, so I'll win. You take the storage counter. [3 poison, 1 storage]
4a proliferate storage, pass [3 poison, 2 storage] (if you attack to poison me, you'll lose the poison race)
4b proliferate poison, [4], attack. Again you can block or storage. If you block, from now on we only get 1 storage or poison counter per turn. Otherwise we get 2 of each per turn. Either way, at the start of your upkeep you always have N storage counters and N+2 poison. You may as well keep your nexus in play through all this, so you make counters and take the damage [5 poison, 3 storage]
...
Xa [8 poison, 6 storage] you proliferate up to 7 storage, then tap out for Din, I sacrifice nexus [8 poison, 0 storage]
Xb proliferate poison [9 poison]
X+1a You attack with din and nexus [9 poison on you, 15 life and 1 poison for me]
X+1b proliferate poison [10 poison]
EDIT: Wait, no, this second option doesn't work because if I keep attacking after I've used my snapback, you can attack and shoal to insta-win. I'm back to thinking 3-3 is correct and the top line of play in this post is the best I can do.
Out of curiosity, why isn't it "An effect can't put a card onto the battlefield from a zone other than exile"?
02 vs 01: Needle shuts off Chimeric Mass. 6-0
02 vs 03: Agreed. 0-6
02 vs 04: He hits for 9 and proliferates. 0-6
02 vs 05: Blighted Agent wins the race. 0-6
02 vs 06: Path the Hex Parasite. 6-0
02 vs 07: Misstep counters Bogle.
02 vs 08:
Him: Nexus, Needle naming Bogle.
Me: Bogle.
Him: Attack with Nexus (if he plays stalker I outrace him).
Me (1 poison): Claim the Needle, attack.
Him (23): Proliferate, Invisible Stalker. I Monstrify EOT.
Me (2 poison): Proliferate, attack.
Him (20): Proliferate.
Me: (3p): Proliferate, attack..
He can block twice using Stalker and Snapback, so the poison kills me.
02 vs 08:
Him: Nexus, Needle naming Bogle.
Me: Bogle.
Him: Attack with Nexus (if he plays stalker I outrace him).
Me (1 poison): Claim the Needle, attack.
Him (23): Proliferate, Invisible Stalker. I Monstrify EOT.
Me (2 poison): Proliferate, attack.
Him (20): Proliferate.
Me: (3p): Proliferate, attack..
He can block twice using Stalker and Snapback, so the poison kills me.
Got an idea for a special month. Instead of a ban-a-thon, you have a nerf-a-thon. Instead of banning cards that were played during the previous week, cards become "nerfed". Cards that are usually banned in ABT are automatically placed on the nerf list during the first week. The following happens to a nerfed card:
If the card is a nonland card, it costs more to cast. (Including alternative casting costs.)
Activated abilities of the card costs more to activate. (Including mana abilities.)
The card starts in the player's library instead of their hand. (To stop Chancellor and Leyline shenanigans.)
If multiple cards start in the library, the player must decide the order when submitting the deck.
Basic lands can't be put on the nerf list. Neither player skips their first draw step of a game.
Out of curiosity, why isn't it "An effect can't put a card onto the battlefield from a zone other than exile"?
For this round, the shorter version probably would have made more sense. When I first wrote that rule for the safe round, the intent was to not eliminate cards like Nether Spirit, Firemane Angel, and Haakon, Stromgald Scourge that are nice to see now and then.
This thread contains the results for week 2 of All Blind Tournament #13 and is the start of week 3 of ABT#13.
Week 2 of ABT#13 Next Round : Week 3 of ABT#13 Information
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
Anyway, props to everyone for sending your decks in early. I received all but nine of these decks when there were still three days left to go in the round, and the last deck was still well within the submission deadline. Everyone was on time last round, too, just generally much closer to the deadline. I've also had to send out very few corrections. Thanks, and keep up the good work!
I'll update results this weekend based on what gets posted, and filling in whatever is left. Deck comments are up, but they may be more generic than usual, as I can only give my best guess about how a deck will perform.
The goal with this upcoming round is to see a lot of high-costing cost stuff, but I have know idea how it'll actually work out. Rather than try to fix the safe rule for this round, I've applied the parts of it that seemed most applicable.
Also, I haven't updated the rules yet to make this clear, but starting with this round, if a player would be able to cause a draw by taking infinite turns, that player can't. They'll have to choose a number of turns to take, and then pass instead. Infinite loops involving two players will still end in a draw. This ruling is to address a discussion carried out in the previous ABT thread.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
07 tomsloger :: ""
Cavern of Souls / Leyline of Sanctity / Leyline of Singularity / Mental Misstep / Slippery Bogle
Academy Ruins / Chimeric Mass / Izzet Boilerworks / Leyline of Singularity / Pithing Needle
6-0 bogle is bigger than mass at all times
02 aurorasparrow :: ""
Gemstone Mine / Nature's Claim / Path to Exile / Pithing Needle / Slippery Bogle
6-0 misstepped
03 knobbodi :: ""
Dark Depths / Engineered Explosives / Mental Misstep / Thespian's Stage / Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
0-6 your threat is bigger than mine
04 bateleur :: "Monsterless"
Blazing Shoal / Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai / Inkmoth Nexus / Mental Misstep / Nicol Bolas
0-6
05 cruelshy :: ""
Blighted Agent / Cavern of Souls / Mental Misstep / Noble Hierarch / Snapback
0-6 blighted agent gets big fast
06 Reyemile :: ""
Hex Parasite / Illness in the Ranks / Nature's Claim / Overgrown Tomb / Pithing Needle
6-0 misstepped
08 MyNameIsFourteen :: "Mono U Counters (no, the other kind)"
Island / Inkmoth Nexus / Invisible Stalker / Leyline of Singularity / Snapback
3-3 on the play, im just faster. on the draw, you can block twice and proliferate me out.
agreed 0-6
09 WhammWhamme :: ""
Academy Ruins / Dreadship Reef / Ratchet Bomb / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre / Vault Skirge
0-6 ratchet bombed
10 DragonDart :: ""
Blazing Shoal / Din of the Fireherd / Inkmoth Nexus / Molten Slagheap / Ratchet Bomb
0-6
vs.
01 Draco9: Growing Vault Skirge outraces growing Chimeric Mass, and Ratchet Bomb can clear out Pithing Needle long enough to get Monstrous.
6-0
02 aurorasparrow: ...just enough answers. If I'd doubled up on ANY kind of threat... *sigh*
0-6
03 knobbodi: ...darn it, no answer to Marit Lage.
0-6
04 bateleur: Skirge can block Nexus. This buys time for the long-game Ulamog win.
6-0
05 cruelshy: Vault Skirge + monstrosify can outrace one hit from the Agent + proliferate AND the hierarch at once... and Ratchet Bomb means it only gets one swing.
:
Swing for 4 (4 poison)
(boom, drop skirge)
Proliferate (5)
Swing for 3 (17 life)
Proliferate (6)
Swing for 5 (12 life)
Proliferate (7)
Swing for 6 (6 life)
Proliferate (8)
Swing for 7 (death)
6-0
06 Reyemile: ...so complex. I THINK it boils down to a stable 2/2 lifelinker outracing a growing Hex Parasite that has to spend 2 life per turn to stop the lifelinker from getting out of control. (with Pithing Needle and Nature's Claim tag-teaming to keep Ulamog out of the picture, as he just wins if I can use my storage land...)
6-0?
07 tomsloger: He doesn't really interact with me.
6-0
08 MyNameIsFourteen: It's a race. I think it chops 3-3.
3-3
10 DragonDart: He blows up Skirge and swings FTW.
0-6
X | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 | PT |
9 | 6 0 0 6 6 6 6 3 X 0 | 32 |
04 bateleur :: "Monsterless"
Blazing Shoal / Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai / Inkmoth Nexus / Mental Misstep / Nicol Bolas
vs
01 Draco9 :: "No Tokens Plz"
Academy Ruins / Chimeric Mass / Izzet Boilerworks / Leyline of Singularity / Pithing Needle
6-0 - Misstep catches Pithing Needle, Inkmoth deals 9, Proliferate FTW.
02 aurorasparrow :: ""
Gemstone Mine / Nature's Claim / Path to Exile / Pithing Needle / Slippery Bogle
4-1 - On the play I play Inkmoth and pass. He has only one land, so must choose between holding Path to Exile mana up and casting Pithing Needle. I Mental Misstep whichever he chooses, then hit him for 9 poison. Proliferate wins on my next turn. On the draw I must counter Pithing Needle on his first turn, which leaves him with an answer to Nexus. However, he cannot resolve Bogle safely and so never gets to kill me since I just never activate the Nexus.
03 knobbodi :: ""
Dark Depths / Engineered Explosives / Mental Misstep / Thespian's Stage / Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
6-0 - Opponent's combo is too slow and answers not relevant.
05 cruelshy :: ""
Blighted Agent / Cavern of Souls / Mental Misstep / Noble Hierarch / Snapback
0-6 - I cannot Mental Misstep his Noble Hierarch because of Cavern. He can therefore save his Misstep to discard to Snapback. This blanks Blazing Shoal, so I lose the poison race, even on the play.
06 Reyemile :: ""
Hex Parasite / Illness in the Ranks / Nature's Claim / Overgrown Tomb / Pithing Needle
4-1 - On the play I play Inkmoth and pass. He has only one land, so must choose between holding Claim mana up and casting Pithing Needle. I Mental Misstep whichever he chooses, then hit him for 9 poison. Proliferate wins on my next turn. On the draw I must counter Pithing Needle on his first turn, which leaves him with an answer to Nexus. However, he cannot resolve Parasite safely and so never gets to kill me since I just never activate the Nexus.
07 tomsloger :: ""
Cavern of Souls / Leyline of Sanctity / Leyline of Singularity / Mental Misstep / Slippery Bogle
6-0 - Finally, someone without Pithing Needle!
08 MyNameIsFourteen :: "Mono U Counters (no, the other kind)"
Island / Inkmoth Nexus / Invisible Stalker / Leyline of Singularity / Snapback
0-6 - This is a surprisingly complex match, but I think he wins even when I'm on the play by gaining a turn in the Nexus race using Snapback even when I don't use Shoal, which is safe provided he waits until the last possible turn. I cannot then redeploy my Nexus on defence because I lack the mana to activate it.
09 WhammWhamme :: ""
Academy Ruins / Dreadship Reef / Ratchet Bomb / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre / Vault Skirge
0-6 - I cannot stop Vault Skirge coming down for 1 mana since its CMC is 2! Ulamog kills me.
10 DragonDart :: ""
Blazing Shoal / Din of the Fireherd / Inkmoth Nexus / Molten Slagheap / Ratchet Bomb
3-3 - This is a very silly match!
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
EDIT: I'm dumb, you obviously activate ratchet bomb the turn you play it haha. But you still lose on the draw, because he snapbacks your skirge and you die to proliferate. (since your calculation is off in your post, you actually kill him with 9 poison, so that 1 turn spells victory for him)
Is it your intention that tokens are effectively out because they'll have fading 0 and never attack? If so I think you need to tweak your fading rule to apply to each permanent rather than each card. If not, do you think removing haste is really enough to nerf tokens in an otherwise all fading world?
Vs Draco9:
Misstep needle, make Marit Lage before he can buy back and replay it. 6-0
Vs aurorasparrow:
Explosives needle (on my third turn so he can't nature's claim), counter path, Marit Lage him. 6-0
Vs bateleur
I die horribly to blazing shoal. 0-6
Vs cruelshy:
On the play, I can explode hierarch before he can be used to play agent. Snapback still stops me from actually winning the game though. 1-4
Vs Reyemile:
Misstep and explosives plus Marit Lage. 6-0
Vs tomsloger:
Marit Lage 6-0
Vs MyNameIsFourteen:
Snapback shuts me down, and explosives cannot stop nexus. 0-6
Vs WhammWhamme:
Marit Lage 6-0
Vs DragonDart:
Blazing shoal too fast 0-6
3 | 6 6 X 0 1 6 6 0 6 0 | 31
Island / Inkmoth Nexus / Invisible Stalker / Leyline of Singularity / Snapback
8 | 6 0 6 6 0 p 6 3 3 3 | 30 |
01 Draco9 :: "No Tokens Plz"
Academy Ruins / Chimeric Mass / Izzet Boilerworks / Leyline of Singularity / Pithing Needle
6-0 If you needle the nexus then stalker will be able to block every turn until it swings for 20. If you needle the stalker, then nexus can race if I use snapback at the right moment (when the mass is a 6/6, I think)
02 aurorasparrow :: ""
Gemstone Mine / Nature's Claim / Path to Exile / Pithing Needle / Slippery Bogle
0-6 Too many answers. You needle the stalker and then even if I get one poison hit in while you're tapped out, you race proliferates.
03 knobbodi :: ""
Dark Depths / Engineered Explosives / Mental Misstep / Thespian's Stage / Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
6-0 If you ever make a Marit Lage, it gets snapped back. Explosives stops the stalker, but not the inkmoths.
04 bateleur :: "Monsterless"
Blazing Shoal / Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai / Inkmoth Nexus / Mental Misstep / Nicol Bolas
6-0 Even on the draw, I snapback the first time you attack or try to block with your nexus, forcing in one damage from my nexus. Next turn your nexus is summoning sick, and from then on I can just block and trade while proliferate does the work.
05 cruelshy :: ""
Blighted Agent / Cavern of Souls / Mental Misstep / Noble Hierarch / Snapback
0-6 Exalted is pretty awesome in the 'mirror', and so is a monstrous infect creature that can cancel out my +1/+1 counters and then deal several poison at once. GGs.
06 Reyemile :: ""
Hex Parasite / Illness in the Ranks / Nature's Claim / Overgrown Tomb / Pithing Needle
3-3
1a nexus
1a tomb untapped (18) parasite
2a stalker
2b needle stalker
3a poison you [1]
3b monstrous parasite, attack for 3 (17)
4a attack while you're tapped out [2] [3]
4b you attack, I snap back removing leyline, you recast parasite
5a attack while you're tapped out [3] [4]
5b monstrosity and start attacking again (14)
6a attack while you're tapped out [5] [6]
6b attack for 4 (10)
7a [7]
7b attack for 5 (5)
8a [8]
8b attack for 6, chump with stalker
9a [9]
9b attack for 7, activate nexus to chump, you nature's claim, i go up to 9 and then down to 2
10a [10 poison wins]
07 tomsloger :: ""
Cavern of Souls / Leyline of Sanctity / Leyline of Singularity / Mental Misstep / Slippery Bogle
6-0
1a land, boggle
1b nexus
2a monstrous boggle in response to proliferate trigger (2/2), proliferate boggle (3/3) attack (17)
2b island, stalker
3a proliferate boggle to 4/4, attack (13)
3b monstrous stalker in response to proliferate trigger (3/3), proliferate stalker (4/4)
4b proliferate boggle to 5/5, attack (8)
4b proliferate stalker to 5/5, attack with nexus (1 poison)
5a proliferate boggle to 6/6, attack (2)
5b proliferate stalker to 6/6 and poison you (2 poison)
6a if you attack, activate nexus and double block (trade both my craeatures for yours)
repeat until poison has killed you
Academy Ruins / Dreadship Reef / Ratchet Bomb / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre / Vault Skirge
3-3 I think you're right about the race.
10 DragonDart :: ""
Blazing Shoal / Din of the Fireherd / Inkmoth Nexus / Molten Slagheap / Ratchet Bomb
3-3See page 2 of the thread.
Well, I seem to have done better than last week, although I still managed to have one irrelevant card (Leyline could have been any blue card and not made any matches worse) Alas that everyone saw how good proliferate could be and hated on it instead of playing into it.
Yeah, it should be permanents. Thanks for catching this.
To everyone:
The round rules have been amended slightly. Originally, they said that "nonland cards" gained Fading. That's been changed to "nonland permanents".
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
Its close enough that I'll check it again!
I think this it's 3-3.
On the draw, I get poisoned on your T2, and if I hold back to cast Din, you kill the token with Snapback and me with poison.
On the play, I attack first. If you let my Nexus through, I get in the first point of poison, which would mean I’d win a standoff even without Shoal. If you Snapback my Nexus to get in the first point of poison, then I can hold back and cast Din, which forces you to sacrifice a land (so your Nexus can’t block), and my Din tokens kill in three turns (5, 10, 15 starting the turn after I cast it), before I get 10 poison counters.
This match was more complicated than it appeared, so let me know if you see another line of play that I'm missing here.
Actually, the din kill is a bit slower than that since I can use Stalker to pay for the snapback and actually use the leyline so you don't get extra tokens, so I think that...oh, hey, Din kills land? <reads the card> Oh, well, GG then. 3-3
you on the play
0 leyline of singularity
1a nexus
1b nexus
2a slagheap, attack, snapback removing stalker
2b island, attack [1 poison]
3a nexus
3b proliferate [2 poison], you storage counter at EOT (1 storage)
4 we both proliferate, you make a storage [3 poison, 3 storage]
5 we both proliferate, you make a storage [4 poison, 5 storage]
6 we both proliferate, you make a storage [5 poison, 7 storage]
7a proliferate up to 8 storage on upkeep, din of the fireherd kills one of my lands
7b [6 poison]
8a attack with din and inkmoth nexus.[6-1 poison, 15 life]
8b proliferate [7-1 poison]
9a legend rule stops you from populating, proliferate poison on me [7-2 poison], attack with inkmoth both [7-3 poison, 10 life]
9b [8-3 poison]
10a populate poison, attack with din and inkmoth [8-5 poison, 5 life]
10b populate poison [9-5 poison, 5 life]
11a populate poison, attack with din and inkmoth [9-7 poison, 0 life]
noooooooo
EDIT: seems this was wrong, more discussion on page 2 of the thread.
0 | 6 4 6 3 3 6 6 3 6 X | 40
01 Draco9 :: "No Tokens Plz"
6-0
Academy Ruins / Chimeric Mass / Izzet Boilerworks / Leyline of Singularity / Pithing Needle
Ratchet Bomb blows up Pithing Needle, then Shoal + Inkmoth.
02 aurorasparrow :: ""
4-1
Gemstone Mine / Nature's Claim / Path to Exile / Pithing Needle / Slippery Bogle
When I am on the play, he has to deal with my Nexus on T1, or die. If he holds back with Claim or Exile, he can never cast Bogle, I will amass counters on my land and eventually have enough to cast Din to force an answer, at which point he loses his only land, and I can kill with Nexus. Thus, he has to play Pithing Needle naming Inkmoth Nexus. After that, he can’t cast Bogle without being killed by Nexus/Shoal, so I amass counters on my storage land. When I have enough, I can cast Din, which destroys his land, and forces him to cast Path on the token. I can then attack freely with my Nexus and win.
When I am on the draw, he can cast Bogle T1, then hold mana open any time I would attack to use removal on my Nexus. I can put counters on my land, starting with one on T2. I will have an untapped storage land with 8 counters on it by turn 6, at which point I will be at1 life because of the bogle. I can then cast Din, forcing him to sacrifice the Bogle and his land, though he kills the token with Path. Then I would be able to kill him.
This means his optimal play on the play is to force a draw. He can cast Needle T1 naming Molten Slagheap, to prevent me from ever getting a counter on it. Then he can hold up mana indefinitely to Exile my Nexus if I attack. If I cast Ratchet Bomb, he can Claim it.
03 knobbodi :: ""
6-0
Dark Depths / Engineered Explosives / Mental Misstep / Thespian's Stage / Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Inkmoth + Shoal.
04 bateleur :: "Monsterless"
3-3
Blazing Shoal / Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai / Inkmoth Nexus / Mental Misstep / Nicol Bolas
Whoever swings first wins.
05 cruelshy :: ""
3-3
Blighted Agent / Cavern of Souls / Mental Misstep / Noble Hierarch / Snapback
On the draw, he gets in a hit with a monstrous Blighted Agent for 4 poison before I can get off a Ratchet Bomb for 2. I die of proliferation before I can kill him with Din.
On the play, I can Ratchet Bomb for 2 before he can attack with the Agent. I can’t use Shoal because of Snapback, but I can cast Din before he can kill me with the Hierarch (made easier because if he ever forgoes casting Agent to make Hierarch monstrous, I can blow it up with Bomb, and prevent him from ever playing the second threat), which frees me up to cast Shoal, or kill with horses.
06 Reyemile :: ""
Hex Parasite / Illness in the Ranks / Nature's Claim / Overgrown Tomb / Pithing Needle
6-0
He doesn’t have enough mana to answer all of my threats in sufficient time to save himself.
07 tomsloger :: ""
6-0
Cavern of Souls / Leyline of Sanctity / Leyline of Singularity / Mental Misstep / Slippery Bogle
Inkmoth + Shoal.
08 MyNameIsFourteen :: "Mono U Counters (no, the other kind)"
3-3
Island / Inkmoth Nexus / Invisible Stalker / Leyline of Singularity / Snapback
On the draw, I get poisoned on your T2, and if I hold back to cast Din, you kill the token with Snapback and me with poison.
On the play, I attack first. If you let my Nexus through, I get in the first point of poison, which would mean I’d win a standoff even without Shoal. If you Snapback my Nexus to get in the first point of poison, then I can hold back and cast Din, which forces you to sacrifice a land (so your Nexus can’t block), and my Din tokens kill in three turns (5, 10, 15 starting the turn after I cast it), before I get 10 poison counters.
09 WhammWhamme :: ""
6-0
Academy Ruins / Dreadship Reef / Ratchet Bomb / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre / Vault Skirge
Inkmoth + Shoal, Ratchet Bomb blows up Skirge. He can't Ratchet my Ratchet because it would kill his own Skirge.
Blighted Agent / Cavern of Souls / Mental Misstep / Noble Hierarch / Snapback
5 | 6 6 4 6 X 6 6 6 6 3 | 46 |
Let me know if I had made in errors so I can make appropriate corrections.
01 Draco9 :: "No Tokens Plz"
Academy Ruins / Chimeric Mass / Izzet Boilerworks / Leyline of Singularity / Pithing Needle
6-0; My deck was fast.
02 aurorasparrow :: ""
Gemstone Mine / Nature's Claim / Path to Exile / Pithing Needle / Slippery Bogle
6-0; Mental Misstep protects the agent and the hierarch
03 knobbodi :: ""
Dark Depths / Engineered Explosives / Mental Misstep / Thespian's Stage / Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4-1; see their post for deets
04 bateleur :: "Monsterless"
Blazing Shoal / Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai / Inkmoth Nexus / Mental Misstep / Nicol Bolas
6-0; see their post for deets
06 Reyemile :: ""
Hex Parasite / Illness in the Ranks / Nature's Claim / Overgrown Tomb / Pithing Needle
6-0; Their answers don't stop my questions
07 tomsloger :: ""
Cavern of Souls / Leyline of Sanctity / Leyline of Singularity / Mental Misstep / Slippery Bogle
6-0; see their post for deets
08 MyNameIsFourteen :: "Mono U Counters (no, the other kind)"
Island / Inkmoth Nexus / Invisible Stalker / Leyline of Singularity / Snapback
6-0; see their post for deets
09 WhammWhamme :: ""
Academy Ruins / Dreadship Reef / Ratchet Bomb / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre / Vault Skirge
6-0; On the play I hit him for 5 poison before he blows up my agent. He hits me a few times but I can snapback his skirge before it kills me and proliferate him to death. On the draw I save the agent from ratchet bomb with snapback and kill him in 2 hits before he can respond.
10 DragonDart :: ""
Blazing Shoal / Din of the Fireherd / Inkmoth Nexus / Molten Slagheap / Ratchet Bomb
3-3; see their post for deets
0 leyline of singularity
1a nexus
1b nexus
2a slagheap, attack, snapback removing stalker
2b island, attack [1 poison]
3a nexus
3b proliferate [2 poison], you storage counter at EOT (1 storage)
4 we both proliferate, you make a storage [3 poison, 3 storage]
5 we both proliferate, you make a storage [4 poison, 5 storage]
6 we both proliferate, you make a storage [5 poison, 7 storage]
7a proliferate up to 8 storage on upkeep, din of the fireherd kills one of my lands
7b [6 poison]
8a attack with din and inkmoth nexus.[6-1 poison, 15 life]
8b proliferate [7-1 poison]
9a legend rule stops you from populating, proliferate poison on me [7-2 poison], attack with inkmoth both [7-3 poison, 10 life]
9b [8-3 poison]
10a populate poison, attack with din and inkmoth [8-5 poison, 5 life]
10b populate poison [9-5 poison, 5 life]
11a populate poison, attack with din and inkmoth [9-7 poison, 0 life]
noooooooo
you on the play
0 leyline of singularity
1a nexus
1b nexus
2a slagheap, attack, snapback removing stalker
2b island, attack [1 poison]
3a nexus
3b proliferate [2 poison], attack. Now you must choose to block or to get a storage counter. If you block, you'll never get din and both nexi will die, so I'll win. You take the storage counter. [3 poison, 1 storage]
4a proliferate storage, pass [3 poison, 2 storage] (if you attack to poison me, you'll lose the poison race)
4b proliferate poison, [4], attack. Again you can block or storage. If you block, from now on we only get 1 storage or poison counter per turn. Otherwise we get 2 of each per turn. Either way, at the start of your upkeep you always have N storage counters and N+2 poison. You may as well keep your nexus in play through all this, so you make counters and take the damage [5 poison, 3 storage]
...
Xa [8 poison, 6 storage] you proliferate up to 7 storage, then tap out for Din, I sacrifice nexus [8 poison, 0 storage]
Xb proliferate poison [9 poison]
X+1a You attack with din and nexus [9 poison on you, 15 life and 1 poison for me]
X+1b proliferate poison [10 poison]
EDIT: Wait, no, this second option doesn't work because if I keep attacking after I've used my snapback, you can attack and shoal to insta-win. I'm back to thinking 3-3 is correct and the top line of play in this post is the best I can do.
02 vs 01: Needle shuts off Chimeric Mass. 6-0
02 vs 03: Agreed. 0-6
02 vs 04: He hits for 9 and proliferates. 0-6
02 vs 05: Blighted Agent wins the race. 0-6
02 vs 06: Path the Hex Parasite. 6-0
02 vs 07: Misstep counters Bogle.
02 vs 08:
Him: Nexus, Needle naming Bogle.
Me: Bogle.
Him: Attack with Nexus (if he plays stalker I outrace him).
Me (1 poison): Claim the Needle, attack.
Him (23): Proliferate, Invisible Stalker. I Monstrify EOT.
Me (2 poison): Proliferate, attack.
Him (20): Proliferate.
Me: (3p): Proliferate, attack..
He can block twice using Stalker and Snapback, so the poison kills me.
Going first:
Me: Mine, Needle naming Nexus.
Him: Nexus, Needle naming Bogle.
Me: Claim Needle, Monstrify, attack..
and I outrace Stalker.
3-3
02 vs 09: Needle the Ruins, Claim the Bomb, Path the Skirge. 6-0
02 vs 10: Needle the Nexus, Claim the Bomb, outrace the Herd. 6-0
02 | 6 X 0 0 0 6 3 6 6 | 26
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Um, I don't think my deck (08) has a needle in it. Against the real deck 08, I think you go 6-0.
It's actually 4-1 in my favor as far as I can tell. See my post for the details.
For this round, the shorter version probably would have made more sense. When I first wrote that rule for the safe round, the intent was to not eliminate cards like Nether Spirit, Firemane Angel, and Haakon, Stromgald Scourge that are nice to see now and then.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy