"No tears, please. It's a waste of good suffering!" - Pinhead
Hi all. Today I am posting my list of Tariel Reckoner of Souls stax deck. This is still a work in progress, so feedback is much appreciated.
This deck has been a long time in the making. This has been for a couple of reasons. First, dega is a difficult wedge to build correctly. There are a lot of options for stax in WBR, so a lot of the development of this deck has been testing different cards and developing a strategy. Many cards I thought would be amazing turned out to either be mediocre or inconvenient to the overall strategy. I discovered the Chains of Mephistopeles + Teferi's Puzzle Box combo a couple of months ago. Being a complete 1980's horror movie junkie, I immediately thought of Hellraiser and the puzzle box that opens up and releases meat hooks. I knew this had to be a win condition in my deck.
"...Did you just kill me with a goat token?"
"If you have Torpor Orb in your opening hand again, I'm going to slap you."
"You should rename your deck 'Trigger Warning.' Works on multiple levels."
"Chains? Ah, you're THAT guy."
- Testimonials from Hellraiser Stax victims opponents
Flavor, mostly. I like the idea of a angel who stratles the line between heaven and hell, passing out judgment on those who cross paths with her. It kind of fits the theme of Hellraiser as well. The Cenobites are not necessarily good or evil, rather just a karmic force of nature and what better way to pass out judgment than nickel and diming people to death?
Sadly, there aren't too many options when it comes to Dega generals. As I post this thread, there are currently only three: Kaalia, Oros and Tariel. I knew from the start that I did not want to build Kaalia because I find her boring. The other two have been difficult and I flip-flopped during the development of this deck. I started with Tariel, moved on to Oros and returned to Tariel. My rationale originally was that, since there is a mass removal package, Oros could serve as another sweeper on a stick. However, I found that with both Oros and Tariel I wasn't regularly casting them. I decided to return to Tariel because she has greater synergy with opponents dumping their hands into their graveyards.
You might like Hellraiser Stax if:
You like unorthodox strategies.
You want to interact with upkeep and draw phases.
You like using resource denial to your advantage.
You want to play archenemy.
You enjoy idiotic cultural references from the 1980's.
Chains of Mephistopheles - Gimps excessive card draw. They can filter through their deck, but they have to discard first, so no card advantage. Combos with Puzzle Box. Teferi's Puzzle Box - Good card filtering. Lets me dig into my deck. Has the added benefit of making opponent's hands a fleeting thing. Combos with Chains of Mephistopheles. Smokestack - Stax crank staple. Good early game or after a board wipe. More tokens to sac = more soot counters. Much fun was had by me. Magus of the Abyss - Decent sac engine. Not my personal favorite creature version but...Braids is banned so you take what you can get. Tainted Æther - VERY strong creature screw. Puts the hurt on decks that want to go nuts with creatures. Token decks forced to make a choice between creatures and mana. Devastation - The big red button. Used for when it's time to reset the board. Armageddon - Standard land D. The key is in its low mana cost. Keldon Firebombers - I'm surprised this card doesn't see more play. Puts some serious hurt on a land filled board on a 3/3 stick? Yes please! Desolation Angel - One of the deck's finishers. Gotta love a 5/4 flyer that ETB Armageddons. You HAVE to pay the kicker though or it just sucks. Blood Moon - Slows multicolored decks down a bit. Cripples 5 color. However, need to be smart with how you play lands for it not to hurt you too. Impending Disaster - Can be removed before your next turn, but it's cheap and can be slipped in during recovery periods for massive damage. Sorin, Lord of innistrad - Makes lifelink tokens for sac fodder, life gain. Ult blows stuff up and gives them to you. Elspeth, Sun's Champion - Expensive CC, but vomits tokens and can wipe the board of fatties in a pinch. Bitterblossom - Staple token producer. If you're playing stax in black, there's no reason not to have this in the 99. Reassembling Skeleton - Not the strongest sac fodder, but can be easily recurred EOT and makes a decent chump blocker early game. Ophiomancer - Sac outlet that makes pretty good chump blocker nobody wants to black. Reliably getting a deathtouch token to sac/block is strong. Grand Abolisher - Teferi Lite. Keeps opponents from meddling with your turn. Blind Obedience - This deck can reliably make use of the Extort ability. For this reason, as well as the lower CC, I've found it more useful than Kismet. Torpor Orb - An absolute powerhouse of this deck. Think about how many ETB effects happen in a typical game of EDH. Now consider this card. "Deadeye Navigator? haha NOOOOPE!" Stranglehold - Anti control. No tutoring, no extra turns. Play at our speed, blue! Sire of Insanity - Best dropped a turn before MLD. Puts on the hurt to everybody REAL FAST. One of the deck's finishers. Uba Mask - Works similarly to Chains of Mephistopheles, but forces the player to choose to play a spell or lose it forever. Also good anti-control. lol your counter spells. Rule of Law - Keeps things like ramp and storm in check. Won a game against Melek player on the back of this card. I'm usually only casting around one spell a turn anyway. Swords to Plowshares - Chose this over Path to Exile, because this deck would rather them have some life than an extra land. Hero's Downfall - Strong removal. Hits planeswalkers. Damnation - Standard creature board wipe. More flavorful in this deck than Wrath of God. Toxic Deluge - The main benefit is that the X variable uses life instead of mana. Worth it in the long run if it saves you from something like a Blightsteel Colossus. Aura of Silence - Artifact/Enchantment tax, and removal in a pinch. Return to Dust - I find myself often casting this at sorcery speed, because the ability to exile an extra target it soooo good. Vandalblast - Overload is such a busted mechanic. Only I get mana rocks for 5? Nuts. Oblation - Not as strong after the General tuck rules change, but still a cheap answer to difficult permanents in a pinch. Again, would rather they have 2 cards than Blightsteel. Vindicate - Cheap and hits just about anything. Good all-around removal. Unexpectedly Absent - Fun little tempo control. Tuck a card your opponent desperately needs on the board. Shattering Pulse - Buyback bust an artifact. Need I say more? Crackling Doom - Trim the hedges and kill everyone's strongest creature, then flick their ears for their hubris. Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite - The token killer. Gimps opponents, makes you stronger. And...DAT FLAVOR. Vampiric Tutor - Standard instant speed tutor in black. Gives you what you need at a reasonable price. Demonic Tutor - Probably one of the best tutors you can fairly easily acquire in black. Enlightened Tutor - Go grab stax stuff or a combo piece. Insidious Dreams - Late game tutor for all the combo pieces. Careful when playing against blue. The additional cost sucks when it's countered. Phyrexian Arena - Again, staple for black decks. The extra cards at a modest price is helpful. Dark Confidant - Probably one of the biggest coin flips of the deck, but getting a free land or mana rock for 2 life is fantastic. Treat this card with respect and it'll help. Bloodgift Demon - A finisher in this deck. Phyrexian Arena on a 5/5 flying body is love. Necropotence - Another draw spell that demands respect, but will treat you well if you do. Has great synergy with Trading Post and Chains + Puzzle Box combo. Sensei's Divining Top - Staple in EDH. EOT deck filtering to grab what you need. Works wonders for early game mana fixing. Wheel of Fortune - Refill your hand. Screws with combo/control. Hilarious with Uba Mask in play. Night's Whisper - Cheap card draw an instant speed. Not much else to say. Sun Titan - A finisher in this deck. Gets smaller stuff back. Crucible of Worlds - Make MLD completely one-sided. Invalidate collateral damage and nab lands from the 'yard while everyone is still reeling, wondering what hit them. Phyrexian Reclamation - Grab the fatties that Sun Titan can't. Reanimate - Nab fatties from ANY graveyard. Something to do if Tariel isn't out or can't be cast. Sword of Light and Shadow - Utility equipment. Grabs a creature from the 'yard and mitigates life loss. Trading Post - One of the ultimate toolbox artifacts. Offers a variety of cogs for your stax machine. Mimic Vat - Has tremendous synergy in a deck focused on sacrificing and removing opponent's permanents. Is VERT exploitable with things like Wurmcoil Engine and Solemn Simulacrum. Tormod's Crypt - Free insurance against reanimator.
There are a couple of ways to win with this deck. The first is the deck's namesake. Chains of Mephistopheles + Teferi's Puzzle Box locks everyone out of a hand. In case you don't know, the combo works like this:
1. Chains says if you would draw outside of the first draw of your draw step, discard a card then draw a card. If you have no cards in had when this effect happens, you mill a card.
2. Puzzle Box says after you draw for your draw step to tuck your hand and draw that many cards.
3. It is a player's draw step. Puzzle Box activates. They go to draw the cards, except Chains says they discard first before they draw. Since they have no cards in hand because of Puzzle Box, they mill that many instead and they don't draw. This player is now locked out of a hand.
Necropotence is a good way to create dimorphism with the combo (I am the only one allowed to have a hand.)
11/12/2016 - A recent inclusion (and I'm not sure why I haven't thought of this until now) is Mimic Vat, which can be useful early to mid game, but can also secure wins by acting as a kind of "Tariel Lite," by working in tandem with the myriad of sac and removal to grab large creatures, such as Wurmcoil Engine, and play them over and over again.
It is possible to win by killing someone with a Goat token. I have made it my mission to win in such a hilarious manner.MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
i can only say 1 thing for certain... assemble the legion! such a strong wincon/hardest to answer permanent type/stax fodder/chump blockers for days
also, i would replace Scrabbling Claws with Phyrexian Furnace since it gives them less choice when it comes to getting rid of cards in their graveyard (just make sure they don't shuffle around the order of cards in their graveyard all the time)
a "fun" card to play with Stax type decks is Sundial of the Infinite since you can put all the sac triggers on the stack, the end the turn... making you never sac, then eventually your opponent's all mill to death when they are completely locked down... or more likely they scoop
i also personally like Desolation Giant in place of one of your wrath effects... nice because it dodges some anti-wrath measures (Gaddock TeegNegate effects) and it leaves you with something
i can only say 1 thing for certain... assemble the legion! such a strong wincon/hardest to answer permanent type/stax fodder/chump blockers for days
also, i would replace Scrabbling Claws with Phyrexian Furnace since it gives them less choice when it comes to getting rid of cards in their graveyard (just make sure they don't shuffle around the order of cards in their graveyard all the time)
a "fun" card to play with Stax type decks is Sundial of the Infinite since you can put all the sac triggers on the stack, the end the turn... making you never sac, then eventually your opponent's all mill to death when they are completely locked down... or more likely they scoop
i also personally like Desolation Giant in place of one of your wrath effects... nice because it dodges some anti-wrath measures (Gaddock TeegNegate effects) and it leaves you with something
Hey, thanks for commenting, Jasril!
I know about Assemble the Legion. The problem is, while it's awesome, I do have limited slots for sac fodder and I don't really want to many token producers in the deck exceeding a CC of 4. I figured that Elspeth, Sun's Champion fills a similar role and I also get to use her as a sweeper spell in a pinch.
Silly me, I guess I didn't properly read Scrabbling Claws. I thought I got to choose the target. It seems way less good now. I'll be replacing it with Phyrexian Furnace posthaste.
Wow, I forgot Sundial of the Infinite existed. That seems like it could be amazing! I'll put it on the list of cards I want to find space for. Thanks for finding that!
If I make space for a a battlecruser wrath spell, it would most likely be Massacre Wurm. Maybe not a guaranteed kill spell, but I'd prefer it over Desolation Giant just because it's a little cheaper and I wouldn't be forced to kick it for it to work. I distinguish it from Desolation Angel because she destroys all lands and makes a flying body.
Where's the draw in this? For a black/x EDH deck, you are lacking draw. Remember, don't over-Stax yourself, that's how you lose.
You need additional ways to sacrifice Necropotence, so you don't get Necro-locked.
Key: You need more removal (Mostly spot), end of story.
RBW Stax could be Goodstuff/Control + Stax as a finisher. No need to dedicate the entire deck to Stax.
Goblin Welder show be in this deck; it will win the games on it's own if your meta calls for it.
I would include at least 2 Wrath effects like Damnation, Rout, Wrath of God or even Black Sun's Zenith. Toxic Deluge would be a low cmc board wipe that hits Thrun and excess life means bigger Mutilate for 2B.
Overall, I like how the lists plays out. It plays out much like my Grixis list even though my deck is 85% U/B, the red is just support to ensure I can out tempo my opponents and give me time to cast my bombs when it's most opportune.
Where's the draw in this? For a black/x EDH deck, you are lacking draw. Remember, don't over-Stax yourself, that's how you lose.
You need additional ways to sacrifice Necropotence, so you don't get Necro-locked.
Key: You need more removal (Mostly spot), end of story.
RBW Stax could be Goodstuff/Control + Stax as a finisher. No need to dedicate the entire deck to Stax.
Goblin Welder show be in this deck; it will win the games on it's own if your meta calls for it.
I would include at least 2 Wrath effects like Damnation, Rout, Wrath of God or even Black Sun's Zenith. Toxic Deluge would be a low cmc board wipe that hits Thrun and excess life means bigger Mutilate for 2B.
Overall, I like how the lists plays out. It plays out much like my Grixis list even though my deck is 85% U/B, the red is just support to ensure I can out tempo my opponents and give me time to cast my bombs when it's most opportune.
Oh hey Bacon! Nice to see a resident stax expert in my thread!
Thanks for the feedback. I've actually noticed a problem with a lack of removal in this deck. I definitely need a larger removal package. I'm thinking Terminate should be in here somewhere as well as Wrath of God. I have a Vindicate in my binder I'm not using. Perhaps I might find a space for that as well. Toxic Deluge is a great suggestion! I'll definitely find space for it. Shattering Pulse is also pretty good. Buyback ftw!
I was actually looking into Goblin Welder when designing this deck. For whatever reason, I thought it was a good idea to cut that card. Not sure why, in retrospect.
If you have thoughts on cuts, I'm all ears. : )
*Edit Here's a quick list I drew up. There's more removal and draw. Let me know what you think.
Oh hey Bacon! Nice to see a resident stax expert in my thread!
Thanks for the feedback. I've actually noticed a problem with a lack of removal in this deck. I definitely need a larger removal package. I'm thinking Terminate should be in here somewhere as well as Wrath of God. I have a Vindicate in my binder I'm not using. Perhaps I might find a space for that as well. Toxic Deluge is a great suggestion! I'll definitely find space for it. Shattering Pulse is also pretty good. Buyback ftw!
I was actually looking into Goblin Welder when designing this deck. For whatever reason, I thought it was a good idea to cut that card. Not sure why, in retrospect.
If you have thoughts on cuts, I'm all ears. : )
*Edit Here's a quick list I drew up. There's more removal and draw. Let me know what you think.
I wouldn't call myself a Stax expert, but I know the archetype well enough to help newer players to improve their deck's overall performance.
I do appreciate the tech of Abyssal Gatekeepr + Phyrexian Reclaimation. He's an amazing blocker, that no one wants to block. Great tech with Trading Post and chumping scary generals like Thraximundar and Ruric Thar.
I would saw your removal suite is fine, but Read the Bones can take that cut. Does the Scry 2 really help that much? Ambition Cost or functional reprint from 8 edition could replace that card easily.
It's much better to top deck those cards than Read the Bones in the late game. If you feel like you need early game draw, Read the Bones fills the role.
I feel like too many mass board wipes is bad, so only have a single Damantion is worth it.
If you feel like you need overall spot removal; Dreadbore and Mortify could be extra removal if you need more suggestions.
On the topic of Goblin Welder; it's honsetly hit or miss in EDH. Not every meta isn't dominated by artifacts?
You should be able to provide your own conclusion on if it's a good fit for the deck or not. How efficient is my advice if I don't how the deck plays out in real life?
Your graveyard removal spells could shift, but keep it at 2-4. Phyrexian Furance should Nihil Spellbomb. It replaces itself and it exiles the entire graveyard for a single black mana.
How has Uba Mask been treating you? I know it's amazing and it ruins blue-based control who use the stack more than permanent control.
Uba Mask + Misc artifacts + Goblin Welder is the interaction that won Vintage tournaments in 2004-26 if my memory serves me right.
I do appreciate the tech of Abyssal Gatekeepr + Phyrexian Reclaimation. He's an amazing blocker, that no one wants to block. Great tech with Trading Post and chumping scary generals like Thraximundar and Ruric Thar.
I like him for that reason too. I've seen a lot of stax lists run Fleshbag Marauder, but honestly, I think Abyssal Gatekeeper fits the role better for "blocker that no one wants to block." I knew about his interaction with Phyrexian Reclamation, but I completely forgot about Trading Post!
I would saw your removal suite is fine, but Read the Bones can take that cut. Does the Scry 2 really help that much? Ambition Cost or functional reprint from 8 edition could replace that card easily.
It's much better to top deck those cards than Read the Bones in the late game. If you feel like you need early game draw, Read the Bones fills the role.
My rationale with Read the Bones was that I wanted some dig to make sure I'm getting the cards I need early game. I could possibly dig four cards deep if necessary. If it doesn't pan out, I was thinking about replacing it with Ambition's Cost. Honestly, I've only seen it a couple of games, so I can't really comment on its effectiveness yet. More tests are needed.
I feel like too many mass board wipes is bad, so only have a single Damantion is worth it.
If you feel like you need overall spot removal; Dreadbore and Mortify could be extra removal if you need more suggestions.
I like the removal package where it is now. I was testing this deck online and I ended up being hated slightly less because I used Toxic Deluge to get rid of someone's shrouded Blightsteel Colossus. Granted, I lost that game, but still, It was nice seeing that card when I needed it.
On the topic of Goblin Welder; it's honestly hit or miss in EDH. Not every meta isn't dominated by artifacts?
You should be able to provide your own conclusion on if it's a good fit for the deck or not. How efficient is my advice if I don't how the deck plays out in real life?
Tbh, my meta is kind of all over the place right now. That's why I've mostly been testing online. We do sometimes play with a guy who has a Slobad deck, so I could see Goblin Welder being good against him. I'm mostly using Welder on my own deck. It's nice to have an easy way to get back key stax artifacts after they've been destroyed. Now Smokestack and Uba Mask are never gone forever. ; )
Your graveyard removal spells could shift, but keep it at 2-4. Phyrexian Furance should Nihil Spellbomb. It replaces itself and it exiles the entire graveyard for a single black mana.
You know, I started this deck with Nihil Spellbomb in mind, but I figured that something like Scrabbling Claws or Phyrexian Furnace would be better at helping Tariel to abuse her ability. Now I'm thinking about my friend's Adun Oakenshield Warp World deck and all of the crazy recursion it has. I might just be better off exiling key threats and being done with it instead of being cute with Tariel's ability. Suggestion taken.
How has Uba Mask been treating you? I know it's amazing and it ruins blue-based control who use the stack more than permanent control.
Uba Mask + Misc artifacts + Goblin Welder is the interaction that won Vintage tournaments in 2004-26 if my memory serves me right.
Uba Mask has been great. Even if I'm not playing against blue control, giving my opponents an ultimatum between either playing their draws or losing them forever has been hilarious. I even got someone to rage quit over it because he lost a key combo piece that he wasn't able to cast. It's brutal when combined with Wheel of Fortune. 10/10. Will cast again.
I would possibly put in other ways to empty their hand other than your combo just in case they get a Return to Dust to one or both of your combo pieces before they actuvate or something. Liliana of the Veil could definitely do this as well as provide some staxish effects through her edict and sac (about) half if your permanents thing. Plus she even lets you discard reanimator targets for Teriel, if you ever intend to use him. Quest for the Nihil Stone could be good as a faster/redundant way to kill them (8 turns rather than 14 at 40 life), especially if you have Liliana. Both of these cards can also be recurred by Sun Titan. I don't own a stax deck and have only played using them on Tappedout a couple of times, so I could be wrong here, but these seem like nice inclusions.
I tried Blind Obedience in my last two builds. I figured it was a good choice, since it has a similar effect for 2 less. Considering mana curve, it made sense at the time. The problem I had with it is that I found it didn't actually do enough for me and I had to include Winter Orb to pick up the slack. Kismet doesn't shut off decks quite like Winter Orb, but it does provide that tempo control I've been looking for.
I really can't bring myself to remove Souls' Betrayal. Watching those token decks squirm is just too funny. Humility is to cut those battlecruiser decks down to a manageable size. Their interaction is not unintentional, but more incidental than anything else. I did secure a win with the combo though. Aggro decks couldn't do anything while I got my stax effects online.
The diamonds have actually been pretty good. They're cheap and its a lot like dropping another basic. Gets around a lot of my board wipes and they're surprisingly resilient. Most people don't consider them to be an important enough target for spot removal.
I would possibly put in other ways to empty their hand other than your combo just in case they get a Return to Dust to one or both of your combo pieces before they actuvate or something. Liliana of the Veil could definitely do this as well as provide some staxish effects through her edict and sac (about) half if your permanents thing. Plus she even lets you discard reanimator targets for Teriel, if you ever intend to use him. Quest for the Nihil Stone could be good as a faster/redundant way to kill them (8 turns rather than 14 at 40 life), especially if you have Liliana. Both of these cards can also be recurred by Sun Titan. I don't own a stax deck and have only played using them on Tappedout a couple of times, so I could be wrong here, but these seem like nice inclusions.
The problem with Quest for the Nihil Stone is that there is a level of investment required to get it online. Even if I did make more room for discard spells, there's no guarantee it will survive long enough. The Rack has the opposite problem. It's colorless and is online as soon as it resolves, but I have to pick a target and I want the effect to be indiscriminate. Shrieking Affliction is a happy medium between the two.
Pros:
- Is indescriminate in its effect.
- Online as soon as it resolves.
Cons:
- Color requirement
- Does less damage than Quest
Liliana is pretty good. I have a copy chilling in my binder, so I might see if I can find room for her. Thanks for reminding me about her. : )
*edit I just found out that Uba Mask + Teferi's Puzzle Box has a similar hand locking interaction as my main combo! Excellent!
*edit 2 I decided to go with Ambition's Cost over Read the Bones. Scry 2 is great for the early game, but I've found that I hit my land drops and mana rocks pretty frequently and I prefer to fill up my hand mid to late game. Ambition's Cost suits my purposes more, for the time being.
I figured out the name of the functional reprint of Ambition's Cost, it's Ancient Craving from Portal Second Age.
I do see why you would want to use Claws/Furnace over Nihil Spellbomb/Tormod's Crypt. I would try to squeeze at least Nihil Spellbomb as graveyard removal that hits the entire graveyard.
I totally forgot what your general is, I usually build Stax lists without the general in mind. The general doesn't warp my deck in anyway, it just has to be support.
I'm glad that Uba Mask is working for you, I need to run it again. It ruined so many games I played it early on with Wheels and late game post board wipes.
You are welcome with the advice of Uba Mask + Smokestack + Goblin Welder interaction; lets save time and call it Uba/Stax. Remember, Stax players are lazy.
Have you learned to properly stack your upkeep triggers with Bitterblossom, Smokestack, Trading Post, Dark Confidant, Phyrexian Arena and Braids, Cabal Minion simultaneously?
If not, look it up and practice. If you are playing online, a misclick can lose you the game. Knowing the rules of magic is how you exploit it.
I figured out the name of the functional reprint of Ambition's Cost, it's Ancient Craving from Portal Second Age.
Yeah, I just discovered that card as well. I only really had a slot free for one, so it just became a matter of which one's flavor I liked more. : P
I do see why you would want to use Claws/Furnace over Nihil Spellbomb/Tormod's Crypt. I would try to squeeze at least Nihil Spellbomb as graveyard removal that hits the entire graveyard.
I totally forgot what your general is, I usually build Stax lists without the general in mind. The general doesn't warp my deck in anyway, it just has to be support.
Yeah, I don't like relying on my general either (probably one reason why I don't like Voltron.) Hell, even my combo deck doesn't need Teferi to win. Like I said in the OP, Tariel has more synergy in this build as a support role than Oros. I think I prefer Nihil Spellbomb at this point. If I need to remove things from an opponent's graveyard, I better make sure I'm getting rid of everything. Tariel's ability can be a perk and a finisher.
I'm glad that Uba Mask is working for you, I need to run it again. It ruined so many games I played it early on with Wheels and late game post board wipes.
You are welcome with the advice of Uba Mask + Smokestack + Goblin Welder interaction; lets save time and call it Uba/Stax. Remember, Stax players are lazy.
You totally do. It's SO good. I'm having way too much fun with Uba/Stax!
Have you learned to properly stack your upkeep triggers with Bitterblossom, Smokestack, Trading Post, Dark Confidant, Phyrexian Arena and Braids, Cabal Minion simultaneously?
If not, look it up and practice. If you are playing online, a misclick can lose you the game. Knowing the rules of magic is how you exploit it.
Not perfectly, but I'm getting better. I just need to play the deck more. I'll improve at stacking the triggers when I have a more intimate understanding of my deck.
It is nice seeing more and more people running decks that focus on the Upkeep as the muscle phase
It sounds weird, but combat and main phases really just get old sometimes.
No, it makes perfect sense. The majority of decks win in the combat step. Having things that interact heavily with the upkeep and draw steps mixes it up a little. : 3
Yeah, I just discovered that card as well. I only really had a slot free for one, so it just became a matter of which one's flavor I liked more. : P
Yeah, I don't like relying on my general either (probably one reason why I don't like Voltron.) Hell, even my combo deck doesn't need Teferi to win. Like I said in the OP, Tariel has more synergy in this build as a support role than Oros. I think I prefer Nihil Spellbomb at this point. If I need to remove things from an opponent's graveyard, I better make sure I'm getting rid of everything. Tariel's ability can be a perk and a finisher.
You totally do. It's SO good. I'm having way too much fun with Uba/Stax!
Not perfectly, but I'm getting better. I just need to play the deck more. I'll improve at stacking the triggers when I have a more intimate understanding of my deck.
Thanks, my friend! You've been a tremendous help!
*Edit
No, it makes perfect sense. The majority of decks win in the combat step. Having things that interact heavily with the upkeep and draw steps mixes it up a little. : 3
No problem guy, if new Stax players want help, feel free to ask me. I can explain the thought process of each card and if they are viable in their list.
That's why I don't run Rhystic Study; I found that Mystic Remora is better out right, and it draws less attention. It's the best late game play when you are in top deck mode unlike Rhystic Study.
If you are scrambling to recover from a mass board wipe like Jokulhaups and friends; who has 4 to pay for their Sol Ring, Signets, Tormod's Crypt or Life from the Loam.
By at least attempting Stax; you will understand the rules of magic better than most aggro players. As Galspanic stated, "Main and combat phases get old." This is so true especially if you've been playing for as long as we have.
My first 4 years of magic, I only utilized the Draw Step, Main Phase, Damage phase, Damage on the stack, discard phase. Most new players from the year 2000, rarely went to upkeep and draw phase for weird tricks like Vendilion Clique.
After you've tested it for approximately a week or so, the land issues will occur and the true colours of the deck will show. When the time comes, tell me about the issues about drawing too many X lands and not enough Y lands.
Suggestions
1. If your friends don't totally hate you already, I would try out Blood Moon and Land Tax. They usually hose tri-colour Goodstuff, Tempo, Combo and Aggro decks.
2. Land Tax is really good if you are behind in land development, and it ensures you hit the next one or two land drops. If nothing, you can activate Sensei's Divining Top, and if the cards are junk. Activate Land Tax for zero lands for a free shuffle effect for a fresh 3 cards on your library.
There probably isn't room for it but with all the MLD you are running it might be worth it to run some packages like Mycosynth Lattice and Darksteel Forge. Or just run Avacyn.
Funny I saw this thread today...The other day I had this random idea of running Kaalia as MLD but after considering it more Tariel might be better in the colors. Your deck is pretty similar to my idea in some slots.
By at least attempting Stax; you will understand the rules of magic better than most aggro players. As Galspanic stated, "Main and combat phases get old." This is so true especially if you've been playing for as long as we have.
My first 4 years of magic, I only utilized the Draw Step, Main Phase, Damage phase, Damage on the stack, discard phase. Most new players from the year 2000, rarely went to upkeep and draw phase for weird tricks like Vendilion Clique.
I think it just comes with the territory. I started playing Magic around the Odyssey block. Back than, I played RG stompy aggro (what passed as 'battlecruiser' back then.) Nowadays, I'm practically the poster boy for "Johnny" (with a drop of Vorthos.) I love seeing crazy plays and fun interactions. Even when I lose, if someone does something nutty to secure a win, I'm happy. MTG has such a new and exciting dynamic when you go beyond just aggro. I'm putting together a Doran tribal deck, but even that is going to have somewhat of a midrange/control shell.
After you've tested it for approximately a week or so, the land issues will occur and the true colours of the deck will show. When the time comes, tell me about the issues about drawing too many X lands and not enough Y lands.
I've tested a bit before and after posting this thread. I think I'm hurting for black more than any other color right now, especially considering how pretty much half the deck requires black mana. I remember you mentioned something in Phil's thread about Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for color fixing. I think that might suit my purposes nicely. The only problem is that I like where my basic lands are right now, especially considering my interest in Ruination and Blood Moon. My first reaction is to be reluctant in cutting Bojuka Bog, but, honestly, it's been more of a burden than anything else. Most of the time, it's just a swamp that comes into play tapped instead of being dropped to exile a graveyard. I tend to draw it early game or have it in my opening hand. Typical.
Suggestions
1. If your friends don't totally hate you already, I would try out Blood Moon and Land Tax. They usually hose tri-colour Goodstuff, Tempo, Combo and Aggro decks.
I'm going to cut Desolation for Blood Moon, because it's not as good as it was back in the Oros build. It has a tendency to be a pain unless I'm dropping it after I get a stax engine going. My friend runs Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon in his Niv Mizzet combo deck (clever, considering his mana base is mostly Islands.) It does cut some of our "ramp-y" friends down to a proper speed.
Quote from bigbearlyke »
There probably isn't room for it but with all the MLD you are running it might be worth it to run some packages like Mycosynth Lattice and Darksteel Forge. Or just run Avacyn.
I don't think I have much room for that, but it's not a bad idea. I'll definitely keep it mind if I decide to revisit Sharuum stax. : )
Funny I saw this thread today...The other day I had this random idea of running Kaalia as MLD but after considering it more Tariel might be better in the colors. Your deck is pretty similar to my idea in some slots.
Kaalia could work pretty well with that strategy. The only problem is I think she's lamepants and you have to kind of build around her, so I haven't really put much thought into how that would look. I think I settled on Tariel because it seems the majority of successful stax generals either interact with graveyards in some way or vomit tokens. Tariel is the only Dega general that really does anything like that. Oros is a close second, but when testing I didn't find his ability nearly as devastating as I wanted it to be.
*Edit I decided to change the quote because it's more fitting with the deck's theme. Silly, I know, but I had a chuckle.
Well, I would definitely replace Desolation with anything that blows up lands or delays the game. Blood Moon is essentially that, it makes their ABUR duals, Shocks, and Filters into mountains. It's fun to give the 5-colour control player 10 Mountains sometimes.
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth should replace Bojuka Bog; Bog is pretty bad most of the time. If you want to run instant graveyard hate, I would just run Rest in Peace/Leyline of the Void over that land. It counts as half a land to me since it comes into play tapped which really kills your tempo when it matters.
I applaud your Niv player by branching out from the normal deck list. If I were to make an Izzet EDH deck; it would be combo of course, but it would have more answers than threats. That's just how I roll in I am playing U/x combo/control list.
- I just wished people learn to play their colour's strength.
Lets take UR; combo clearly is the most consistent and fastest way to win.
Run Power Artifact + Grim Monolith/Basalt combo, Transmute Artifact to tutor up that combo. Intuition, looters, and Wheel effects.
#2 combo could be Future Sight + Top + Helm of Awakening; Easy storm win against non-U/B players. R/G players can't Stifle your storm trigger.
At the same time, run Electrolyze, Pongify, Fire/Ice, Bonfire of the Damned, Keldon Firebombers to keep ramp in check, Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Torpor Orb, and Jokulhaups as a board reset.
You get the idea about how to properly play UR; remove heavy, draw heavy, with combo kill. Pretty simple way to win in any meta.
Any major mana or draw issues?
Questions about new cards that could make the cut?
I've noticed R/B/X Stax list run better as proactive then reactive cards. So a well timed Keldon Firebombers in single turn was more effective Desolation has the entire game.
You really wanna make people hate you with all the mill and hand lock? Leyline of the Void. If that ain't evil and Hellraiser, I don't know what it :D.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I've been taking a bit of a break from MTG lately. This has actually been good for this deck, because it's allowed me to have a new perspective on it. Recent testing has changed my thoughts on certain cards:
I'm not sure how I feel about Catastrophe right now. I like the option to kill creatures or lands, but I already run a couple of cards that sweep creatures, so more often than not it's going to be Armageddon for 6. Bacon, I'm considering taking your advice and making space for Keldon Firebombers.
Night of Souls' Betrayal is not blowing up my skirt as much as during initial testing. It's only really baller against certain aggro strategies and the rest of the time it feels kind of like a dead card. I'm thinking about taking DementedKirby's advice and replace it with Leyline of the Void. The thing is, I really want to capitalize on discard if I do that. Speaking of which...
I want some more discard tech. I'm thinking things like Necrogen Mists and Oppression might be pretty good. The only problem is I'm struggling with cuts beyond the first two cards I mentioned.
Mana has been funny. I have had very little problems setting up mana for things like Necropotence, but I've occasionally struggled casting larger spells containing WW or RR.
My biggest pet peeve right now is it's not aggressive enough. Bacon, as you mentioned, this deck could benefit from being more proactive. Right now I sometimes go until turn 6 without doing much of anything. I love things like Strangehold and Ghostly Prison, but sometimes they're in my hand and I'd rather have something that causes opponents to do something unpleasant.
Really, the deck can go in a number of directions from here, so feedback would be very much appreciated.
*Edit I decided take out Night of Souls' Betrayal for Necrogen Mists. For the time being, I like having a discard crank more.
/Bump See changelog for recent updates. I'd like some feedback. Below are some of my thoughts.
- Took out Catastrophe for Keldon Firebombers. I think I have enough creature removal in the deck (including two sweeper spells) so I wanted to focus a little more on land hate on a stick.
- Took out Chaos Warp for Unexpectedly Absent. Warp, while fun, has been risky. Absent seems like a more reliable removal spell with potential for some hilarious tempo disruption.
- Made space for the Theros Temples. Having some extra deck filtering should prove to be useful.
- I might need to revisit my basic lands. Considering adding more mountains if finding red mana becomes a problem. More tests are needed.
I've been looking for a red/white/black stax deck. This looks real fun. I currently have a white/black deck that does similar things but I really miss goblin wielder and friends
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I've been looking for a red/white/black stax deck. This looks real fun. I currently have a white/black deck that does similar things but I really miss goblin wielder and friends
Dega, in my experience, is a very unappreciated. Orzhov is quite possibly the two best colors for stax and red is a very solid support color. As mentioned earlier, Goblin Welder has been an all star combined with Uba Mask. There is certainly a lot of room for exploration in these colors. I'd love to see someone pick up where I failed and make a really solid Oros stax list.
I've had a lot of fun with this deck. Thanks for commenting!
My issue with Oros is is it will kill most tokens, braids, and wielder, seems like a big no no to me. Kaalia draws too much hate to Tariel makes the most sense.
I have to ask why not on some cards:
SkullClamp
Bloodghast
Cataclysm
Mana crypt
World queller
Containerization
Desolation
Academy rector
Yawgmoth's will
Aven mindcensor
Death cloud
Ophiomancer
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
SkullClamp
Bloodghast
Cataclysm
Mana crypt
World queller
Containerization
Desolation
Academy rector
Yawgmoth's will
Aven mindcensor
Death cloud
Ophiomancer
Well, idealistically, I'd run a few more stax staples, but at some point I have to reach a cut-off. Some of these cards I don't run for more specific reasons.
Skullclamp: Skullclamp is a great card, but I just don't make enough tokens to justify running it in this deck. I'm building a Nath deck that runs 'clamp, mostly because the deck practically vomits tokens.
Bloodghast: Color requirement, mostly. Also, I don't like needing to drop a land to get it back. Sometimes I like to hold onto lands in my hand, so I can recover more quickly when I play MLD. Reassembling Skeleton needs a cost to be paid to bring it back, but I can do it at my convenience.
Mana Crypt: Because, holy crap, the price tag on Mana Crypt is insane. Sol Ring is almost as good and gets the job done at a fraction of the cost.
World Queller: I've tested this card before and, to be honest, it kind of sucks. For five mana, it just doesn't do enough. Not to mention it doesn't have the express benefit of Braids/Smokestack (aka everyone sacs before you.) Everyone sacs at the same time. It's kind of like how Cunning Lethemancer is strictly worse than Necrogen Mists.
Desolation: I had it in my initial list, but I replaced it with Blood Moon, because you really have to build around it. Generally, you want a lot of mana rocks to offset lands blowing up every time they tap. If you're looking into making a Tariel stax list, you could try it out with a bigger rock package than me. I just didn't want to dedicate that many slots to mana producing artifacts/land recursion.
Aven Mindcensor: Because Stranglehold does the same thing, only better and is less easily destroyed than a creature.
Ophiomancer: I love Ophiomancer's flavor. I really, really wish it made more than one snake, which is pretty much the only reason it's not in my list. It's okay for sac fodder, but it just doesn't get there in terms of amassing a board presence.
I wouldn't mind finding space for Cataclysm or Academy Rector though. I'll add it to the "cards I'm considering" list. I'd really like to make space for Grand Abolisher. Any thoughts on cuts?
"No tears, please. It's a waste of good suffering!" - Pinhead
Hi all. Today I am posting my list of Tariel Reckoner of Souls stax deck. This is still a work in progress, so feedback is much appreciated.
This deck list can also be found on Tapped Out here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tariel-hellraiser-stax/
"...Did you just kill me with a goat token?"
"If you have Torpor Orb in your opening hand again, I'm going to slap you."
"You should rename your deck 'Trigger Warning.' Works on multiple levels."
"Chains? Ah, you're THAT guy."
- Testimonials from Hellraiser Stax
victimsopponentsFlavor, mostly. I like the idea of a angel who stratles the line between heaven and hell, passing out judgment on those who cross paths with her. It kind of fits the theme of Hellraiser as well. The Cenobites are not necessarily good or evil, rather just a karmic force of nature and what better way to pass out judgment than nickel and diming people to death?
Sadly, there aren't too many options when it comes to Dega generals. As I post this thread, there are currently only three: Kaalia, Oros and Tariel. I knew from the start that I did not want to build Kaalia because I find her boring. The other two have been difficult and I flip-flopped during the development of this deck. I started with Tariel, moved on to Oros and returned to Tariel. My rationale originally was that, since there is a mass removal package, Oros could serve as another sweeper on a stick. However, I found that with both Oros and Tariel I wasn't regularly casting them. I decided to return to Tariel because she has greater synergy with opponents dumping their hands into their graveyards.
You might like Hellraiser Stax if:
You might not like Hellraiser Stax if:
7 Tariel, Reckoner of Souls
Creatures (11)
4 Magus of the Abyss
5 Desolation Angel
2 Reassembling Skeleton
6 Sire of Insanity
3 Ophiomancer
2 Dark Confidant
5 Bloodgift Demon
6 Sun Titan
5 Keldon Firebombers
2 Grand Abolisher
7 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Instants (10)
1 Swords to Plowshares
3 Hero's Downfall
4 Return to Dust
3 Oblation
2 Unexpectedly Absent
2 Shattering Pulse
3 Crackling Doom
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Insidious Dreams
Sorceries (10)
7 Devastation
4 Armageddon
4 Damnation
3 Toxic Deluge
1 Vandalblast
3 Vindicate
2 Demonic Tutor
3 Wheel of Fortune
2 Night's Whisper
1 Reanimate
4 Teferi's Puzzle Box
4 Smokestack
2 Torpor Orb
4 Uba Mask
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Trading Post
3 Mimic Vat
0 Tormod's Crypt
2 Boros Signet
2 Charcoal Diamond
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Darksteel Ingot
2 Coldsteel Heart
2 Marble Diamond
2 Orzhov Signet
2 Rakdos Signet
1 Sol Ring
Enchantments (12)
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
3 Blood Moon
2 Bitterblossom
2 Blind Obedience
4 Stranglehold
3 Rule of Law
3 Aura of Silence
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
4 Tainted Æther
2 Impending Disaster
4 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
6 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Land (35)
0 Ancient Tomb
0 Strip Mine
0 Command Tower
0 Mana Confluence
0 Scrubland
0 Plateau
0 Badlands
0 Godless Shrine
0 Sacred Foundry
0 Blood Crypt
0 Temple of Silence
0 Temple of Triumph
0 Temple of Malice
0 Flagstones of Trokair
0 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
0 Evolving Wilds
0 Terramorphic Expanse
0 Marsh Flats
0 Arid Mesa
0 Bloodstained Mire
6x Plains
6x Swamp
3x Mountain
7 Tariel, Reckoner of Souls
Combo
3 Chains of Mephistopheles
4 Teferi's Puzzle Box
Sac / Land D
4 Smokestack
4 Magus of the Abyss
4 Tainted Æther
7 Devastation
4 Armageddon
5 Keldon Firebombers
5 Desolation Angel
3 Blood Moon
2 Impending Disaster
Sac Fodder
4 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
6 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Bitterblossom
2 Reassembling Skeleton
3 Ophiomancer
Disruption
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Blind Obedience
2 Torpor Orb
4 Stranglehold
6 Sire of Insanity
4 Uba Mask
3 Rule of Law
Removal
1 Swords to Plowshares
3 Hero's Downfall
4 Damnation
3 Toxic Deluge
3 Aura of Silence
4 Return to Dust
1 Vandalblast
3 Oblation
3 Vindicate
2 Unexpectedly Absent
2 Shattering Pulse
3 Crackling Doom
7 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Demonic Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Insidious Dreams
3 Phyrexian Arena
2 Dark Confidant
5 Bloodgift Demon
3 Necropotence
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Wheel of Fortune
2 Night's Whisper
Recursion
6 Sun Titan
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Reanimate
Other Tools
3 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Trading Post
3 Mimic Vat
0 Tormod's Crypt
Mana Rocks
2 Boros Signet
2 Charcoal Diamond
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Darksteel Ingot
2 Coldsteel Heart
2 Marble Diamond
2 Orzhov Signet
2 Rakdos Signet
1 Sol Ring
Land
0 Ancient Tomb
0 Strip Mine
0 Command Tower
0 Mana Confluence
0 Scrubland
0 Plateau
0 Badlands
0 Godless Shrine
0 Sacred Foundry
0 Blood Crypt
0 Temple of Silence
0 Temple of Triumph
0 Temple of Malice
0 Flagstones of Trokair
0 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
0 Evolving Wilds
0 Terramorphic Expanse
0 Marsh Flats
0 Arid Mesa
0 Bloodstained Mire
6x Plains
6x Swamp
3x Mountain
Chains of Mephistopheles - Gimps excessive card draw. They can filter through their deck, but they have to discard first, so no card advantage. Combos with Puzzle Box.
Teferi's Puzzle Box - Good card filtering. Lets me dig into my deck. Has the added benefit of making opponent's hands a fleeting thing. Combos with Chains of Mephistopheles.
Smokestack - Stax crank staple. Good early game or after a board wipe. More tokens to sac = more soot counters. Much fun was had by me.
Magus of the Abyss - Decent sac engine. Not my personal favorite creature version but...Braids is banned so you take what you can get.
Tainted Æther - VERY strong creature screw. Puts the hurt on decks that want to go nuts with creatures. Token decks forced to make a choice between creatures and mana.
Devastation - The big red button. Used for when it's time to reset the board.
Armageddon - Standard land D. The key is in its low mana cost.
Keldon Firebombers - I'm surprised this card doesn't see more play. Puts some serious hurt on a land filled board on a 3/3 stick? Yes please!
Desolation Angel - One of the deck's finishers. Gotta love a 5/4 flyer that ETB Armageddons. You HAVE to pay the kicker though or it just sucks.
Blood Moon - Slows multicolored decks down a bit. Cripples 5 color. However, need to be smart with how you play lands for it not to hurt you too.
Impending Disaster - Can be removed before your next turn, but it's cheap and can be slipped in during recovery periods for massive damage.
Sorin, Lord of innistrad - Makes lifelink tokens for sac fodder, life gain. Ult blows stuff up and gives them to you.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion - Expensive CC, but vomits tokens and can wipe the board of fatties in a pinch.
Bitterblossom - Staple token producer. If you're playing stax in black, there's no reason not to have this in the 99.
Reassembling Skeleton - Not the strongest sac fodder, but can be easily recurred EOT and makes a decent chump blocker early game.
Ophiomancer - Sac outlet that makes pretty good chump blocker nobody wants to black. Reliably getting a deathtouch token to sac/block is strong.
Grand Abolisher - Teferi Lite. Keeps opponents from meddling with your turn.
Blind Obedience - This deck can reliably make use of the Extort ability. For this reason, as well as the lower CC, I've found it more useful than Kismet.
Torpor Orb - An absolute powerhouse of this deck. Think about how many ETB effects happen in a typical game of EDH. Now consider this card. "Deadeye Navigator? haha NOOOOPE!"
Stranglehold - Anti control. No tutoring, no extra turns. Play at our speed, blue!
Sire of Insanity - Best dropped a turn before MLD. Puts on the hurt to everybody REAL FAST. One of the deck's finishers.
Uba Mask - Works similarly to Chains of Mephistopheles, but forces the player to choose to play a spell or lose it forever. Also good anti-control. lol your counter spells.
Rule of Law - Keeps things like ramp and storm in check. Won a game against Melek player on the back of this card. I'm usually only casting around one spell a turn anyway.
Swords to Plowshares - Chose this over Path to Exile, because this deck would rather them have some life than an extra land.
Hero's Downfall - Strong removal. Hits planeswalkers.
Damnation - Standard creature board wipe. More flavorful in this deck than Wrath of God.
Toxic Deluge - The main benefit is that the X variable uses life instead of mana. Worth it in the long run if it saves you from something like a Blightsteel Colossus.
Aura of Silence - Artifact/Enchantment tax, and removal in a pinch.
Return to Dust - I find myself often casting this at sorcery speed, because the ability to exile an extra target it soooo good.
Vandalblast - Overload is such a busted mechanic. Only I get mana rocks for 5? Nuts.
Oblation - Not as strong after the General tuck rules change, but still a cheap answer to difficult permanents in a pinch. Again, would rather they have 2 cards than Blightsteel.
Vindicate - Cheap and hits just about anything. Good all-around removal.
Unexpectedly Absent - Fun little tempo control. Tuck a card your opponent desperately needs on the board.
Shattering Pulse - Buyback bust an artifact. Need I say more?
Crackling Doom - Trim the hedges and kill everyone's strongest creature, then flick their ears for their hubris.
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite - The token killer. Gimps opponents, makes you stronger. And...DAT FLAVOR.
Vampiric Tutor - Standard instant speed tutor in black. Gives you what you need at a reasonable price.
Demonic Tutor - Probably one of the best tutors you can fairly easily acquire in black.
Enlightened Tutor - Go grab stax stuff or a combo piece.
Insidious Dreams - Late game tutor for all the combo pieces. Careful when playing against blue. The additional cost sucks when it's countered.
Phyrexian Arena - Again, staple for black decks. The extra cards at a modest price is helpful.
Dark Confidant - Probably one of the biggest coin flips of the deck, but getting a free land or mana rock for 2 life is fantastic. Treat this card with respect and it'll help.
Bloodgift Demon - A finisher in this deck. Phyrexian Arena on a 5/5 flying body is love.
Necropotence - Another draw spell that demands respect, but will treat you well if you do. Has great synergy with Trading Post and Chains + Puzzle Box combo.
Sensei's Divining Top - Staple in EDH. EOT deck filtering to grab what you need. Works wonders for early game mana fixing.
Wheel of Fortune - Refill your hand. Screws with combo/control. Hilarious with Uba Mask in play.
Night's Whisper - Cheap card draw an instant speed. Not much else to say.
Sun Titan - A finisher in this deck. Gets smaller stuff back.
Crucible of Worlds - Make MLD completely one-sided. Invalidate collateral damage and nab lands from the 'yard while everyone is still reeling, wondering what hit them.
Phyrexian Reclamation - Grab the fatties that Sun Titan can't.
Reanimate - Nab fatties from ANY graveyard. Something to do if Tariel isn't out or can't be cast.
Sword of Light and Shadow - Utility equipment. Grabs a creature from the 'yard and mitigates life loss.
Trading Post - One of the ultimate toolbox artifacts. Offers a variety of cogs for your stax machine.
Mimic Vat - Has tremendous synergy in a deck focused on sacrificing and removing opponent's permanents. Is VERT exploitable with things like Wurmcoil Engine and Solemn Simulacrum.
Tormod's Crypt - Free insurance against reanimator.
There are a couple of ways to win with this deck. The first is the deck's namesake. Chains of Mephistopheles + Teferi's Puzzle Box locks everyone out of a hand. In case you don't know, the combo works like this:
1. Chains says if you would draw outside of the first draw of your draw step, discard a card then draw a card. If you have no cards in had when this effect happens, you mill a card.
2. Puzzle Box says after you draw for your draw step to tuck your hand and draw that many cards.
3. It is a player's draw step. Puzzle Box activates. They go to draw the cards, except Chains says they discard first before they draw. Since they have no cards in hand because of Puzzle Box, they mill that many instead and they don't draw. This player is now locked out of a hand.
Necropotence is a good way to create dimorphism with the combo (I am the only one allowed to have a hand.)
Other ways include swinging beats with Sire of Insanity/Sun Titan/Desolation Angel/Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, slapping Sword of Light and Shadow on a token after typical stax shenanigans, or turning my opponent's creatures against them with Tariel.
11/12/2016 - A recent inclusion (and I'm not sure why I haven't thought of this until now) is Mimic Vat, which can be useful early to mid game, but can also secure wins by acting as a kind of "Tariel Lite," by working in tandem with the myriad of sac and removal to grab large creatures, such as Wurmcoil Engine, and play them over and over again.
It is possible to win by killing someone with a Goat token. I have made it my mission to win in such a hilarious manner.MISSION ACCOMPLISHED1 Claws of Gix
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Westvale Abbey
1 Grave Titan
+ Phyrexian Furnace
- Scrabbling Claws
11/14/2013 - Deck changed via BaconoftheArk's suggestions.
+ Blood Moon
- Desolation
+ Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
- Bojuka Bog
+ Necrogen Mists
- Night of Souls' Betrayal
5/26/2014
+ Keldon Firebombers
+ Unexpectedly Absent
+ Temple of Silence
+ Temple of Triumph
+ Temple of Malice
- Catastrophe
- Chaos Warp
- Isolated Chapel
- Clifftop Retreat
- Lavaclaw Reaches
5/30/2014
+ Blind Obedience
+ Aura of Silence
- Kismet
- Seal of Cleansing
7/9/2014
+ Grand Abolisher
- Humility
8/5/2014
+ Insidious Dreams
+ Night's Whisper
+ Possessed Portal
+ Ophiomancer
- Erebos, God of the Dead
- Ambition's Cost
- Necrogen Mists
- Abyssal Gatekeeper
9/2/2014
+ Crackling Doom
+ Catastrophe
+ Tainted AEther
+ Reanimate
+ Rule of Law
+ Land Tax
+ Nomad Outpost
- Terminate
- Ruination
- Possessed Portal
- Shrieking Affliction
- Ghostly Prison
- Goblin Welder
- Kher Keep
9/13/2014
+ Magus of the Abyss
- Braids, Cabal Minion
5/7/2015
+ Phyrexian Revoker
- Land Tax
7/16/2015
+ Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
+ Impending Disaster
+ Coldsteel Heart
+ Mana Confluence
+ Chromatic Lantern
- Catastrophe
- Phyrexian Revoker
- Fire Diamond
- Nomad Outpost
- Coalition Relic
11/12/2016
+ Mimic Vat
+ Ghostly Prison
- Nihil Spellbomb
- Rule of Law
11/20/2016
+ Rule of Law
- Ghostly Prison
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
also, i would replace Scrabbling Claws with Phyrexian Furnace since it gives them less choice when it comes to getting rid of cards in their graveyard (just make sure they don't shuffle around the order of cards in their graveyard all the time)
a "fun" card to play with Stax type decks is Sundial of the Infinite since you can put all the sac triggers on the stack, the end the turn... making you never sac, then eventually your opponent's all mill to death when they are completely locked down... or more likely they scoop
i also personally like Desolation Giant in place of one of your wrath effects... nice because it dodges some anti-wrath measures (Gaddock Teeg Negate effects) and it leaves you with something
BW Haakon, Stromgald Scourge: Tribal Knights BW
UWG Roon Astral Slide: Cycling and Sliding Based Deck UWG
Hey, thanks for commenting, Jasril!
I know about Assemble the Legion. The problem is, while it's awesome, I do have limited slots for sac fodder and I don't really want to many token producers in the deck exceeding a CC of 4. I figured that Elspeth, Sun's Champion fills a similar role and I also get to use her as a sweeper spell in a pinch.
Silly me, I guess I didn't properly read Scrabbling Claws. I thought I got to choose the target. It seems way less good now. I'll be replacing it with Phyrexian Furnace posthaste.
Wow, I forgot Sundial of the Infinite existed. That seems like it could be amazing! I'll put it on the list of cards I want to find space for. Thanks for finding that!
If I make space for a a battlecruser wrath spell, it would most likely be Massacre Wurm. Maybe not a guaranteed kill spell, but I'd prefer it over Desolation Giant just because it's a little cheaper and I wouldn't be forced to kick it for it to work. I distinguish it from Desolation Angel because she destroys all lands and makes a flying body.
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
You need additional ways to sacrifice Necropotence, so you don't get Necro-locked.
Key: You need more removal (Mostly spot), end of story.
RBW Stax could be Goodstuff/Control + Stax as a finisher. No need to dedicate the entire deck to Stax.
Goblin Welder show be in this deck; it will win the games on it's own if your meta calls for it.
I would include at least 2 Wrath effects like Damnation, Rout, Wrath of God or even Black Sun's Zenith.
Toxic Deluge would be a low cmc board wipe that hits Thrun and excess life means bigger Mutilate for 2B.
Overall, I like how the lists plays out. It plays out much like my Grixis list even though my deck is 85% U/B, the red is just support to ensure I can out tempo my opponents and give me time to cast my bombs when it's most opportune.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
Oh hey Bacon! Nice to see a resident stax expert in my thread!
Thanks for the feedback. I've actually noticed a problem with a lack of removal in this deck. I definitely need a larger removal package. I'm thinking Terminate should be in here somewhere as well as Wrath of God. I have a Vindicate in my binder I'm not using. Perhaps I might find a space for that as well. Toxic Deluge is a great suggestion! I'll definitely find space for it. Shattering Pulse is also pretty good. Buyback ftw!
Draw hasn't been as big of a problem for me as you'd think, but I see your point. I definitely want to find room for Wheel of Fortune and Bloodgift Demon. Thoughts on Ambition's Cost?
I was actually looking into Goblin Welder when designing this deck. For whatever reason, I thought it was a good idea to cut that card. Not sure why, in retrospect.
If you have thoughts on cuts, I'm all ears. : )
*Edit Here's a quick list I drew up. There's more removal and draw. Let me know what you think.
1 Tariel, Reckoner of Souls
Combo
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Teferi's Puzzle Box
1 Shreiking Affliction
Sac / Land D
1 Smokestack
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Devastation
1 Armageddon
1 Ruination
1 Catastrophe
1 Desolation Angel
1 Desolation
Sac Fodder
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Bitterblossom
1 Reassembling Skeleton
Disruption
1 Humility
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Kismet
1 Torpor Orb
1 Stranglehold
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Uba Mask
1 Ghostly Prsion
Removal
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Abyssal Gatekeeper
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Damnation
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Return to Dust
1 Vandalblast
1 Oblation
1 Vindicate
1 Chaos Warp
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Terminate
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Dark Confidant
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Necropotence
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Read the Bones
Recursion
1 Sun Titan
1 Cruible of Worlds
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Goblin Welder
Other Tools
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Trading Post
1 Phyrexian Furnace
1 Tormod's Crypt
Mana Rocks
1 Boros Signet
1 Charcoal Diamond
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Fire Diamond
1 Marble Diamond
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Sol Ring
Land
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Strip Mine
1 Command Tower
1 Scrubland
1 Plateau
1 Badlands
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Blood Crypt
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Kher Keep
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
6 Plains
6 Swamp
3 Mountain
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
I wouldn't call myself a Stax expert, but I know the archetype well enough to help newer players to improve their deck's overall performance.
I do appreciate the tech of Abyssal Gatekeepr + Phyrexian Reclaimation. He's an amazing blocker, that no one wants to block. Great tech with Trading Post and chumping scary generals like Thraximundar and Ruric Thar.
I would saw your removal suite is fine, but Read the Bones can take that cut.
Does the Scry 2 really help that much? Ambition Cost or functional reprint from 8 edition could replace that card easily.
It's much better to top deck those cards than Read the Bones in the late game. If you feel like you need early game draw, Read the Bones fills the role.
I feel like too many mass board wipes is bad, so only have a single Damantion is worth it.
If you feel like you need overall spot removal; Dreadbore and Mortify could be extra removal if you need more suggestions.
On the topic of Goblin Welder; it's honsetly hit or miss in EDH. Not every meta isn't dominated by artifacts?
You should be able to provide your own conclusion on if it's a good fit for the deck or not. How efficient is my advice if I don't how the deck plays out in real life?
Your graveyard removal spells could shift, but keep it at 2-4. Phyrexian Furance should Nihil Spellbomb. It replaces itself and it exiles the entire graveyard for a single black mana.
How has Uba Mask been treating you? I know it's amazing and it ruins blue-based control who use the stack more than permanent control.
Uba Mask + Misc artifacts + Goblin Welder is the interaction that won Vintage tournaments in 2004-26 if my memory serves me right.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
I like him for that reason too. I've seen a lot of stax lists run Fleshbag Marauder, but honestly, I think Abyssal Gatekeeper fits the role better for "blocker that no one wants to block." I knew about his interaction with Phyrexian Reclamation, but I completely forgot about Trading Post!
My rationale with Read the Bones was that I wanted some dig to make sure I'm getting the cards I need early game. I could possibly dig four cards deep if necessary. If it doesn't pan out, I was thinking about replacing it with Ambition's Cost. Honestly, I've only seen it a couple of games, so I can't really comment on its effectiveness yet. More tests are needed.
I like the removal package where it is now. I was testing this deck online and I ended up being hated slightly less because I used Toxic Deluge to get rid of someone's shrouded Blightsteel Colossus. Granted, I lost that game, but still, It was nice seeing that card when I needed it.
Tbh, my meta is kind of all over the place right now. That's why I've mostly been testing online. We do sometimes play with a guy who has a Slobad deck, so I could see Goblin Welder being good against him. I'm mostly using Welder on my own deck. It's nice to have an easy way to get back key stax artifacts after they've been destroyed. Now Smokestack and Uba Mask are never gone forever. ; )
You know, I started this deck with Nihil Spellbomb in mind, but I figured that something like Scrabbling Claws or Phyrexian Furnace would be better at helping Tariel to abuse her ability. Now I'm thinking about my friend's Adun Oakenshield Warp World deck and all of the crazy recursion it has. I might just be better off exiling key threats and being done with it instead of being cute with Tariel's ability. Suggestion taken.
Uba Mask has been great. Even if I'm not playing against blue control, giving my opponents an ultimatum between either playing their draws or losing them forever has been hilarious. I even got someone to rage quit over it because he lost a key combo piece that he wasn't able to cast. It's brutal when combined with Wheel of Fortune. 10/10. Will cast again.
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
I tried Blind Obedience in my last two builds. I figured it was a good choice, since it has a similar effect for 2 less. Considering mana curve, it made sense at the time. The problem I had with it is that I found it didn't actually do enough for me and I had to include Winter Orb to pick up the slack. Kismet doesn't shut off decks quite like Winter Orb, but it does provide that tempo control I've been looking for.
I really can't bring myself to remove Souls' Betrayal. Watching those token decks squirm is just too funny. Humility is to cut those battlecruiser decks down to a manageable size. Their interaction is not unintentional, but more incidental than anything else. I did secure a win with the combo though. Aggro decks couldn't do anything while I got my stax effects online.
The diamonds have actually been pretty good. They're cheap and its a lot like dropping another basic. Gets around a lot of my board wipes and they're surprisingly resilient. Most people don't consider them to be an important enough target for spot removal.
The problem with Quest for the Nihil Stone is that there is a level of investment required to get it online. Even if I did make more room for discard spells, there's no guarantee it will survive long enough. The Rack has the opposite problem. It's colorless and is online as soon as it resolves, but I have to pick a target and I want the effect to be indiscriminate. Shrieking Affliction is a happy medium between the two.
Pros:
- Is indescriminate in its effect.
- Online as soon as it resolves.
Cons:
- Color requirement
- Does less damage than Quest
Liliana is pretty good. I have a copy chilling in my binder, so I might see if I can find room for her. Thanks for reminding me about her. : )
*edit I just found out that Uba Mask + Teferi's Puzzle Box has a similar hand locking interaction as my main combo! Excellent!
*edit 2 I decided to go with Ambition's Cost over Read the Bones. Scry 2 is great for the early game, but I've found that I hit my land drops and mana rocks pretty frequently and I prefer to fill up my hand mid to late game. Ambition's Cost suits my purposes more, for the time being.
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
I do see why you would want to use Claws/Furnace over Nihil Spellbomb/Tormod's Crypt. I would try to squeeze at least Nihil Spellbomb as graveyard removal that hits the entire graveyard.
I totally forgot what your general is, I usually build Stax lists without the general in mind. The general doesn't warp my deck in anyway, it just has to be support.
I'm glad that Uba Mask is working for you, I need to run it again. It ruined so many games I played it early on with Wheels and late game post board wipes.
You are welcome with the advice of Uba Mask + Smokestack + Goblin Welder interaction; lets save time and call it Uba/Stax. Remember, Stax players are lazy.
Have you learned to properly stack your upkeep triggers with Bitterblossom, Smokestack, Trading Post, Dark Confidant, Phyrexian Arena and Braids, Cabal Minion simultaneously?
If not, look it up and practice. If you are playing online, a misclick can lose you the game. Knowing the rules of magic is how you exploit it.
Anyways, good luck!
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
It sounds weird, but combat and main phases really just get old sometimes.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Yeah, I just discovered that card as well. I only really had a slot free for one, so it just became a matter of which one's flavor I liked more. : P
Yeah, I don't like relying on my general either (probably one reason why I don't like Voltron.) Hell, even my combo deck doesn't need Teferi to win. Like I said in the OP, Tariel has more synergy in this build as a support role than Oros. I think I prefer Nihil Spellbomb at this point. If I need to remove things from an opponent's graveyard, I better make sure I'm getting rid of everything. Tariel's ability can be a perk and a finisher.
You totally do. It's SO good. I'm having way too much fun with Uba/Stax!
Not perfectly, but I'm getting better. I just need to play the deck more. I'll improve at stacking the triggers when I have a more intimate understanding of my deck.
Thanks, my friend! You've been a tremendous help!
*Edit
No, it makes perfect sense. The majority of decks win in the combat step. Having things that interact heavily with the upkeep and draw steps mixes it up a little. : 3
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
No problem guy, if new Stax players want help, feel free to ask me. I can explain the thought process of each card and if they are viable in their list.
That's why I don't run Rhystic Study; I found that Mystic Remora is better out right, and it draws less attention. It's the best late game play when you are in top deck mode unlike Rhystic Study.
If you are scrambling to recover from a mass board wipe like Jokulhaups and friends; who has 4 to pay for their Sol Ring, Signets, Tormod's Crypt or Life from the Loam.
By at least attempting Stax; you will understand the rules of magic better than most aggro players. As Galspanic stated, "Main and combat phases get old." This is so true especially if you've been playing for as long as we have.
My first 4 years of magic, I only utilized the Draw Step, Main Phase, Damage phase, Damage on the stack, discard phase. Most new players from the year 2000, rarely went to upkeep and draw phase for weird tricks like Vendilion Clique.
After you've tested it for approximately a week or so, the land issues will occur and the true colours of the deck will show. When the time comes, tell me about the issues about drawing too many X lands and not enough Y lands.
Suggestions
1. If your friends don't totally hate you already, I would try out Blood Moon and Land Tax. They usually hose tri-colour Goodstuff, Tempo, Combo and Aggro decks.
2. Land Tax is really good if you are behind in land development, and it ensures you hit the next one or two land drops. If nothing, you can activate Sensei's Divining Top, and if the cards are junk. Activate Land Tax for zero lands for a free shuffle effect for a fresh 3 cards on your library.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
Funny I saw this thread today...The other day I had this random idea of running Kaalia as MLD but after considering it more Tariel might be better in the colors. Your deck is pretty similar to my idea in some slots.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
I think it just comes with the territory. I started playing Magic around the Odyssey block. Back than, I played RG stompy aggro (what passed as 'battlecruiser' back then.) Nowadays, I'm practically the poster boy for "Johnny" (with a drop of Vorthos.) I love seeing crazy plays and fun interactions. Even when I lose, if someone does something nutty to secure a win, I'm happy. MTG has such a new and exciting dynamic when you go beyond just aggro. I'm putting together a Doran tribal deck, but even that is going to have somewhat of a midrange/control shell.
I've tested a bit before and after posting this thread. I think I'm hurting for black more than any other color right now, especially considering how pretty much half the deck requires black mana. I remember you mentioned something in Phil's thread about Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for color fixing. I think that might suit my purposes nicely. The only problem is that I like where my basic lands are right now, especially considering my interest in Ruination and Blood Moon. My first reaction is to be reluctant in cutting Bojuka Bog, but, honestly, it's been more of a burden than anything else. Most of the time, it's just a swamp that comes into play tapped instead of being dropped to exile a graveyard. I tend to draw it early game or have it in my opening hand. Typical.
I'm going to cut Desolation for Blood Moon, because it's not as good as it was back in the Oros build. It has a tendency to be a pain unless I'm dropping it after I get a stax engine going. My friend runs Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon in his Niv Mizzet combo deck (clever, considering his mana base is mostly Islands.) It does cut some of our "ramp-y" friends down to a proper speed.
I don't think I have much room for that, but it's not a bad idea. I'll definitely keep it mind if I decide to revisit Sharuum stax. : )
Kaalia could work pretty well with that strategy. The only problem is I think she's lamepants and you have to kind of build around her, so I haven't really put much thought into how that would look. I think I settled on Tariel because it seems the majority of successful stax generals either interact with graveyards in some way or vomit tokens. Tariel is the only Dega general that really does anything like that. Oros is a close second, but when testing I didn't find his ability nearly as devastating as I wanted it to be.
*Edit I decided to change the quote because it's more fitting with the deck's theme. Silly, I know, but I had a chuckle.
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth should replace Bojuka Bog; Bog is pretty bad most of the time. If you want to run instant graveyard hate, I would just run Rest in Peace/Leyline of the Void over that land. It counts as half a land to me since it comes into play tapped which really kills your tempo when it matters.
I applaud your Niv player by branching out from the normal deck list. If I were to make an Izzet EDH deck; it would be combo of course, but it would have more answers than threats. That's just how I roll in I am playing U/x combo/control list.
- I just wished people learn to play their colour's strength.
Lets take UR; combo clearly is the most consistent and fastest way to win.
Run Power Artifact + Grim Monolith/Basalt combo, Transmute Artifact to tutor up that combo. Intuition, looters, and Wheel effects.
#2 combo could be Future Sight + Top + Helm of Awakening; Easy storm win against non-U/B players. R/G players can't Stifle your storm trigger.
At the same time, run Electrolyze, Pongify, Fire/Ice, Bonfire of the Damned, Keldon Firebombers to keep ramp in check, Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Torpor Orb, and Jokulhaups as a board reset.
You get the idea about how to properly play UR; remove heavy, draw heavy, with combo kill. Pretty simple way to win in any meta.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
Any major mana or draw issues?
Questions about new cards that could make the cut?
I've noticed R/B/X Stax list run better as proactive then reactive cards. So a well timed Keldon Firebombers in single turn was more effective Desolation has the entire game.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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I'm not sure how I feel about Catastrophe right now. I like the option to kill creatures or lands, but I already run a couple of cards that sweep creatures, so more often than not it's going to be Armageddon for 6. Bacon, I'm considering taking your advice and making space for Keldon Firebombers.
Night of Souls' Betrayal is not blowing up my skirt as much as during initial testing. It's only really baller against certain aggro strategies and the rest of the time it feels kind of like a dead card. I'm thinking about taking DementedKirby's advice and replace it with Leyline of the Void. The thing is, I really want to capitalize on discard if I do that. Speaking of which...
I want some more discard tech. I'm thinking things like Necrogen Mists and Oppression might be pretty good. The only problem is I'm struggling with cuts beyond the first two cards I mentioned.
Mana has been funny. I have had very little problems setting up mana for things like Necropotence, but I've occasionally struggled casting larger spells containing WW or RR.
My biggest pet peeve right now is it's not aggressive enough. Bacon, as you mentioned, this deck could benefit from being more proactive. Right now I sometimes go until turn 6 without doing much of anything. I love things like Strangehold and Ghostly Prison, but sometimes they're in my hand and I'd rather have something that causes opponents to do something unpleasant.
Really, the deck can go in a number of directions from here, so feedback would be very much appreciated.
*Edit I decided take out Night of Souls' Betrayal for Necrogen Mists. For the time being, I like having a discard crank more.
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
- Took out Catastrophe for Keldon Firebombers. I think I have enough creature removal in the deck (including two sweeper spells) so I wanted to focus a little more on land hate on a stick.
- Took out Chaos Warp for Unexpectedly Absent. Warp, while fun, has been risky. Absent seems like a more reliable removal spell with potential for some hilarious tempo disruption.
- Made space for the Theros Temples. Having some extra deck filtering should prove to be useful.
- I might need to revisit my basic lands. Considering adding more mountains if finding red mana becomes a problem. More tests are needed.
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Dega, in my experience, is a very unappreciated. Orzhov is quite possibly the two best colors for stax and red is a very solid support color. As mentioned earlier, Goblin Welder has been an all star combined with Uba Mask. There is certainly a lot of room for exploration in these colors. I'd love to see someone pick up where I failed and make a really solid Oros stax list.
I've had a lot of fun with this deck. Thanks for commenting!
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
I have to ask why not on some cards:
SkullClamp
Bloodghast
Cataclysm
Mana crypt
World queller
Containerization
Desolation
Academy rector
Yawgmoth's will
Aven mindcensor
Death cloud
Ophiomancer
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Well, idealistically, I'd run a few more stax staples, but at some point I have to reach a cut-off. Some of these cards I don't run for more specific reasons.
Skullclamp: Skullclamp is a great card, but I just don't make enough tokens to justify running it in this deck. I'm building a Nath deck that runs 'clamp, mostly because the deck practically vomits tokens.
Bloodghast: Color requirement, mostly. Also, I don't like needing to drop a land to get it back. Sometimes I like to hold onto lands in my hand, so I can recover more quickly when I play MLD. Reassembling Skeleton needs a cost to be paid to bring it back, but I can do it at my convenience.
Mana Crypt: Because, holy crap, the price tag on Mana Crypt is insane. Sol Ring is almost as good and gets the job done at a fraction of the cost.
World Queller: I've tested this card before and, to be honest, it kind of sucks. For five mana, it just doesn't do enough. Not to mention it doesn't have the express benefit of Braids/Smokestack (aka everyone sacs before you.) Everyone sacs at the same time. It's kind of like how Cunning Lethemancer is strictly worse than Necrogen Mists.
Desolation: I had it in my initial list, but I replaced it with Blood Moon, because you really have to build around it. Generally, you want a lot of mana rocks to offset lands blowing up every time they tap. If you're looking into making a Tariel stax list, you could try it out with a bigger rock package than me. I just didn't want to dedicate that many slots to mana producing artifacts/land recursion.
Aven Mindcensor: Because Stranglehold does the same thing, only better and is less easily destroyed than a creature.
Ophiomancer: I love Ophiomancer's flavor. I really, really wish it made more than one snake, which is pretty much the only reason it's not in my list. It's okay for sac fodder, but it just doesn't get there in terms of amassing a board presence.
I wouldn't mind finding space for Cataclysm or Academy Rector though. I'll add it to the "cards I'm considering" list. I'd really like to make space for Grand Abolisher. Any thoughts on cuts?
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH