Imagine a worlddeck. Your average Modern deck. You want it to do well, so you've stuck to your strategy and filled it with the best cards you can. Jund? In go Lilianas and Confidants. UWR? Snapcasters and Bolts and Helices are your best friends. Zoo? Kird Ape and Loam Lion and now you have Wild Nacatl as your latest superweapon. They are your cards, in your deck, that only you can have. They are strong cards that YOU want to use to WIN.
It just happens that WE want to use them first.
2 Why do(n't) I want to play this deck?
You might want to play this deck if:
-You enjoy out-of-the-box strategies
-You enjoy leaving your opponents helpless
-You enjoy beating your opponent down with their own cards
-You enjoy playing Blue
-You enjoy one-card-combos
You probably do NOT want to play this deck if:
-You want to hit 20 ASAP
-You prefer assembling a doomsday device and winning on the spot
-You want games over as soon as possible
-You do not like Blue
-You hold no attraction for locks
3 - So what exactly is Fate Seal, anyway?
Welcome to Fate-Seal, where all you do is answer your opponent and your own deck doesn't matter. Well, it does, just read on and you'll see what I mean.
Take a look at the following list, for instance (my original and outdated Fate-Storm list):
This is, at first glance, just a pile of cards. There are lands to make mana, spells to make mana, spells to that deal damage exclusively to creatures, and spells that draw cards. There are exactly zero ways to deal damage to an opponent directly, exactly zero creatures that attack, and exactly zero combos of any sort. It's a pile of cards that essentially does absolutely nothing.
Shared Fate makes it so that essentially, I draw from your deck and you draw from my deck. Except this deck does not have any way to harm us back. Which, in turn, means that when Fate hits the board, if the opponent controls no creatures that can attack and kill you and is not holding anything that can remove it, they are locked into a deck that does absolutely nothing except draw more cards. Meanwhile, you play out of their deck and can (semi-safely) proceed to beat them down.
This thread is for the discussion of decks that use Shared Fate aggressively to lock the opponent, instead of what is likely the intended use of creating silly game states.
4 - Huh. So how exactly does one go about building a deck that doesn't do anything?
I'm glad you asked! With the help of Team Fate-Seal (2-3 other users that are active in the thread), I have come up with a list of "Rules" - well, not so much Rules as Guidelines for how to build a "successful" deck that "can't win".
So before you go out and build your own Fate deck or comment with suggestions, here are some things to keep in mind:
Fate Rule #1 - No Remand. This might come as a shocker to some. While is a fantastic counterspell, it really undermines the deck. If the opponent draws it, it allows them to return a threat we play back to their hand and play it for themselves.
Fate Rule #2 - Watch your creatures! Non-wall creatures are generally known for having a power value and the ability to attack, which allows them to deal damage. Running creatures alongside Fate allows the opponent to actually draw into something that can be a threat, which is a threat to our game plan. Notable exceptions can be things like Spellskite or Wall of Omens.
Fate Rule #3 - Watch your burn! If you decide to run Red in Fate, an impulse you might have to stifle is to auto-stuff a playset of Bolts in there. The issue with that is that Bolts can be thrown at both creatures and players. If someone has gotten you to 3 or less life before Fate drops, you've suddenly giving them a way out of the lock.
Fate Rule #4 - Watch your digging! I know, we're playing blue, and we're trying to hit specific cards so we need to dig as much as we can. Serum Visions? Is fine, since it's still a draw. Sleight of Hand or Peer Through Depths? Is not fine, as they do not explicitly draw, meaning it allows them to break out of the lock temporarily, and grab a threat or something that can remove Fate.
Fate Rule #5 - Watch your removal! If you play too much, your opponent has a decent chance of drawing and using it themselves. If it returns things to owner's hand, such as Vapor Snag or Echoing Truth, they can get their things back (similar to Rule #1).
Fate Rule #6 - Watch your sideboard! There are some matchups against very resilient decks that the main plan will simply not win against. Plan for it with silver bullets in the board or a transformative sideboard.
Tips/Tricks:
-Hand disruption is a very useful tool as it can wreck their pre-Fate plan, and you could care less about your hand post-Fate.
-If Fate lands properly, they should be locked out of the game. No need to overextend, take it slow and take as few risks as possible once Fate lands.
5 - Well that's all fine and dandy, but can I see how the deck actually looks?
While the goal of game 1 with this deck is to land at the opportune time when it will not be able to be answered (what I like to call the Fate-Lock or Fate-Seal), there are several color combinations that seem to make this possible. This deck has had no serious results (that I know of), so this section is entirely speculative and based on observation.
5.1 - Izzet Fate
The main idea of splashing Red into Fate is that it allows for a transformational sideboard plan with two well-known combos in UR - Storm or Twin. The core of the deck remains Blue, but Red also provides access to damage-based removal and sweepers (Pyroclasm, Anger of the Gods) and a "swiss-army knife" in Izzet Charm. Out of the board, you have 4 Pestermite, 4 Exarch and 4 Twin coming out replacing the Fates and 4 other cards of choice (generally, the sweepers).
Grixis Fate can also use the exile clause of Anger, but it also gets more efficient sweepers in Damnation and a tutor in Brainspoil. The REAL reason you splash black, however, is hand disruption. Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize are very strong in this deck. They're strong for their ability to rip threats/responses out in any deck, but they're especially strong because they provide information about the hand to guide when it may be safe to drop Fate, AND they get rid of a potential answer to Fate or a threat they might be able to clock us with. After Fate drops, it is literally a dead card for them - we could care less about our hand, and anything we "draw" off Fate gets exiled and is not subject to hand disruption.
This is a color combination that is played by Honor Basquiat. The addition of White allows the addition of Wall of Omens, Supreme Verdict, and Path to Exile among others, which are well-known to be control powerhouses. The Wall can block, draws a card, and can't attack post-Fate, which is fantastic; the Verdict is an uncounterable wipe and the Path is a cheap removal, which are all things we want to see.
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This deck is hilarious, although it might be too slow game 1.
I like the idea though.
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Desperate Ritual is in the Stormboard. I fear having too many Rituals in the Fateboard might leave me with too many rituals and nothing to do with them. SSG could work, though it runs the risk of being cast out and beating me down. Good catch on Anger of the Gods - any suggestions for replacements for Anger and SSG?
This deck is hilarious, although it might be too slow game 1.
I like the idea though.
Thank you! That's my main issue with it too, I find :/ and that's why I'm here to see if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions on improvements
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I like the idea of your deck, but you don't have many ways to deal with threats on the field, beside drawing an answer from you opponents deck or one of your 4 flame slashes. In addition you should probably play your "wincon" as a 4 of to find it more consistently. Furthermore as much as I like your sideboard strategy, I don't think it's worth it from a competetive perspective, as it's weak to the same answers (Pyromancer Ascension is also an enchantment, they board removal for).
If you are a storm player I can't really help you, but I you like Shared Fate deck I can show you my list:
I'm a control player at heart so I made a deck to do exactly that and use Shared Fate as a wincon. It's still in the testing phase, but here are some important points:
1. Discard work extremely well, because it helps you precombo and is a useless draw for your opponent.
2. No Remand, it's terribad, I guess you can figure out why.
3. Include cards, that can't be used by your opponent (Wild guess), or have flashback (Think Twice). You don't have to do that, but it makes it very difficult for them to get a draw and helps you to finish in time, if they don't concede.
4. You can't lose anymore after an resolved Shared fate, if they are hellbent. Thus only commit to one threat a a time and don't take risks. Even if it's only a 1/1 it's all you need to beat them.
This deck list isn't optimal and still in testing. The big problem however is that it's almost impossible to finish a single game, due to (probably justified) ragequits.
Thanks a lot vlor! Feel free to use this thread for anything you discover in your testing!
Before going into anything else, I am more of a janky Johnny builder than a Storm player. Storm was just a convenient trans-board idea that uses a bunch of the same draw spells. I'm willing to change the concept to make Fate more functional, of course.
To answer your concerns:
Re:removal - there's Flame Slash, and there's Pyroclasm as well. But I agree, there isn't too much protection until an active Ascension.
Re:number of Fates - At one point I actually had it at four, but I removed one as I drew into doubles rather often (though it could have just been iffy shuffling on Cockatrice while goldfishing). The fact that it's a five-drop means that generally I only need to see one of them per game. If I see more (or less) it won't end well :/
Re:Ascension weak to Fate removal - that is true, but the logic behind the transformative sideboard is that the opponent will try to save removal for Fate to leave me without a wincon. This leaves the Ascension safe - or at least safer than pure storm where the opp knows that Ascension is a kill-on-sight target.
Re:your pointers-
1) I agree on the usefulness of discard here - you get to see their hand and clear out any potential threats or Fate removal - but you are only running 4 Duress. Would IoK not make the better mainboard discard? It would be able to pick off critters AND removal, while Duress can only hunt down removal?
2) Remand is a trap, and is probably a never-include in this deck.
3) Putting in cards my opponent can't use shouldn't be much of an issue, since in both our decks we have no way for them to win, though you have a lot more removal than I do.
My two concerns with your deck are:
1) The amount of removal. There is a lot of it. While removal is good, it makes it possible for them to use your own deck to start blowing up their creatures.
2) The lack of an alternate wincondition. Assuming they take the loss game 1 to the lock, games 2 and 3 they will be much more prepared against the deck to take it down, both in terms of siding in specific removals but also in how the deck functions and what the key targets (well, target) are (is). The Stormboard was originally created to take advantage of that, and attempt to surprise them by turning into a completely different deck.
Does your deck have any sort of experience from piloting it could share?
Props for also trying this deck out, I hope to see you around on this thread more!
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1) You are probably right. Me saying discard is so good and then only using 4 discard spells makes me look a bit dumb :D. I will probably include some Inquisiton of Kozilek here. The duresses are against non creature permanents I have almost/no way to deal with. Still they are probably much better in the Sideboard.
3) and and your first concern are linked. They are included to win me the game, even though I use so much removal. They are either dead cards in your hand or provide both player's with gas.
About your second concern: I haven't thought to much of it because the deck isn't really finished yet. The discard spells should probably fix this. Another idea is to use a Splinter/Twin sidboard, because they (hopefully) boarded out all creature removal. It is probably not a big deal, but this deck is also able to tutor for Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, which is a small bonus.
I don't have really much experience, because of so many ragequits. At one point I got sick of it and moved to another deck. Most players get the illusion they can still do something even after dropping Shared Fate and play a long boring game and eventually quit.
I am still thinking what the best colors are. Blue is mandatory and Black is extremly good because of the discard spells and the tutor.
1) Red gives us spot removal and cheap sweepers, as well as a potetial Twin Sideboard.
2) Green gives us Abrupt decay and Putrefy, but not much else (Maelstrom Pulse destroyes our wincon)
3) White offers us an additional, but worse Tutor, Supreme Verdict and additional cheap removal spells (Condemn,Path to Exile) Oust is a honorable mention here.
In my opinion Red is the best option here, unless I forgot something (please let me know), so I will probably stick to it.
I've actually thought of boarding into Twin as well.
Upsides:
-Allows for more control spells in the Fateboard (Mana Leak, Rune Snag, etc.) to not let anything drop onto the board and allows limited protection of Fate
-Allows for more flex slots in general and does not require the constricted selections that are necessary to make boarding into Storm possible.
However..
Downside:
-Essentially locks the sideboard into 4 Exarch 4 Pestermite 4 Twin, allowing only 3 other "answers".
As for the "bonus features", they're just convenient new additions that aren't really run in Storm, but can be run here:
-Spellskite protects Fate from broad artifact/enchant removal, AND protects the Twin combo AND walls 3 and lower power critters pre-board
-Izzet Charm (in theory) literally does everything we want it to - can protect Fate, can burn creatures, can draw us cards when we need lands or Fate
For the 3x flex slot in the board I opted for Lightning Bolt. The only thing I have yet to figure out for this build is what 12/15 get boarded out. I realize some creature-lite builds might not care about Bolt too much, but at least 12 slots need to be open to board properly.
OUT:
3 Fate
3 Anger
2 Pyroclasm
is only 8. Maybe 12 counters is too much for Twin and I can settle for 8 boarding out Snag? I have zero experience with Twin ._.
I've played two matches with Fatestorm since then. One I lost because Fate was too slow g1 and got unlucky with storm g2; The other I only managed to play 1 game because had to leave for dinner, was against grave-based zombie deck running Gravecrawlers and Bloodghasts which Fate kinda almost auto-scoops to. Perhaps burn that exiles needs to replace the existing burn? (Pyroclasm -> Anger, Flame Slash -> Magma Spray?)
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As per the additional colors, you're mostly right, I think. Oust makes a very interesting addition - dead to them, but not only makes them lose a creature, but with Fate we can get it within a few turns. As for what is the best secondary color, I think it would depend on the build. In a "pure-Fate" deck (one that aims to win via Fate both games), Dimir is probably the strongest as it offers hand disruption to minimize their ability to disrupt us, as well as sweepers and "hard" (not damage-based) removal. If going with a transformative sideboard, Izzet has the "easiest" board-in as its combos have cards synergistic with the main plan.
Discounting budget, I wonder if a Grixis build is viable, using the following landbase:
Where the U is for drawing and Fate, B for Damnation and IoK/Thoughtseize, and R for Anger/Pyroclasm. This also gives a split of 13/13/12 in terms of U/B/R sources, so hitting BB and RR isn't unrealistic. Scalding Tarns can be added at convenience, but unless this deck manages semi-consistent wins I cannot see myself dropping $50/card o.o haha. For the Grixis build, an option could be to run the Twinboard with the 3x flex slot as hand control like Duress.
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Essentially, the main changes are-
Main:
-2 Spellskite
-1 Spell Pierce
+2 Thoughtseize
+1 land
Side:
-3 Bolt
+2 Thoughtseize
+1 Spell Pierce
To accomodate for the 'seizes, the playset of Shivan Reef was replaced with City of Brass (because if I'm getting pained, might as well have it enable discard). City of Brass also allows us to start casting cards almost right away and not have to wait to hit the proper lands. Just need to mind any creatures in play, and how much life you're giving up to Vents/City/Thoughtseize/Probes
Sadly, this deck is difficult to test properly on Cockatrice, which is my main avenue of playing these days, because as expected, there has so far been a 100% quit rate if Fate lands the lock. The last game I played with the newly modified list, the last turn was Probe seeing 3 PtE and 1 Thundermaw -> Fate -> Thoughtseize nuking Thundermaw, pass turn, proceed to "draw" Geist of St. Win -> next turn concede and leave. Sooooo I'm likely going to proxy it up and start taking it with me to LGSs and seeing if people would be up for helping me test a deck or something, since post-board games with this are pretty non-existent.
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Twitch: MTGJankmaster; lurking>streaming (but maybe one day when I get good at magic)
xMage: Jankmaster Commander - Now Playing WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUWRHomura, Human AscendantRRGBorborygmos EnragedGRURMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRBURSaheeli, the GiftedRUWRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
This deck is super fun. I went with White after struggling in Red; the latter just doesn't give us enough board control. We really want to make sure there aren't any threats active for our opponents when we resolve Shared Fate. Exotic Orchard helps with the mana so you don't have to sit around for 5 turns before being able to cast any of their spells. Mind Stone helps you ramp or draws you cards if you need to. I don't usually play Mana Leak and Path to Exile together, but Leak is only relevant for the early game anyway. We want to stabilize and drop our Enchantment.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
This deck is super fun. I went with White after struggling in Red; the latter just doesn't give us enough board control. We really want to make sure there aren't any threats active for our opponents when we resolve Shared Fate. Exotic Orchard helps with the mana so you don't have to sit around for 5 turns before being able to cast any of their spells. Mind Stone helps you ramp or draws you cards if you need to. I don't usually play Mana Leak and Path to Exile together, but Leak is only relevant for the early game anyway. We want to stabilize and drop our Enchantment.
Thanks for the list, and welcome to Team Fate-Seal
Interesting take on the deck. Since the games can go long and grindy, do you find Ghostly Prison to do much? I've had games that went long enough for Mana Leak to not be able to counter important things, but I guess they're similar in that respect, and in their negative synergy with Path to Exile.
cut spell pierces and thoughtseize for dispel IMO.
And yeah definitely need 4 shared fates. I love the idea for the deck
Thoughtseize is a powerful tool for removing things that might still be in their hand, so I'll keep them in for now, but I could definitely test Dispels over Pierces.
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This isn't a suggestions just more or less an observation that my inner Janky self couldn't let go, think about how much fun knowledge pool would be in a deck list like this? O you want that spell? Let me just cast this counter spell in response and steal it. I may have to casually put this together for my playgroup
I threw together a grixis list that transformed into 4 snap & cryptic, 2 ultimatum, 3 clique, tefiri, batterskull.
Played 4 games when I was able to find the time in my hectic, bronchitis ridden day.
First two games I won after landing the fate, cuz I kep the board clear.
then I played a match vs folk and got crushed. Deck needed Tec edges lol
But, I was on my grandparents computer. Now im heading home and I've already scribbled down an esper list with a Geist sb plan, or Gifts Sb plan, haven't decided yet.
Imo Black is the 2nd core color behind blue. Without IoK or Thoughtseize, the deck feels like it will never beat a resolved walker, specifically Karn or Liliana. And playing any counterspells just seems pretty bad for us....idk.
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Um you are missing the best card ever for this deck, Leveler. Thought Lash was the go to card for me in this deck when Shared Fate came out. There really isn't a better card for what you are doing right now.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
I threw together a grixis list that transformed into 4 snap & cryptic, 2 ultimatum, 3 clique, tefiri, batterskull.
Played 4 games when I was able to find the time in my hectic, bronchitis ridden day.
First two games I won after landing the fate, cuz I kep the board clear.
then I played a match vs folk and got crushed. Deck needed Tec edges lol
But, I was on my grandparents computer. Now im heading home and I've already scribbled down an esper list with a Geist sb plan, or Gifts Sb plan, haven't decided yet.
Imo Black is the 2nd core color behind blue. Without IoK or Thoughtseize, the deck feels like it will never beat a resolved walker, specifically Karn or Liliana. And playing any counterspells just seems pretty bad for us....idk.
The whole counterspells idea, while adapted from my transform into Twin plan, also helps to control the early game and make sure the opponent can't get away with anything silly, like t3 Karn or Liliana, while also supporting the post-board plan. I definitely agree that hand disruption is a champ though - especially in this deck, where you can snipe out threats that your removal cannot deal with or that can impede Fate.
Would you mind posting your Grixis list? I'm curious to see what you've included for your removal suite.
Um you are missing the best card ever for this deck, Leveler. Thought Lash was the go to card for me in this deck when Shared Fate came out. There really isn't a better card for what you are doing right now.
Leveler is actually pretty bad in this deck, because if they draw him after Fate lands, they get all the benefits, and we have to figure out how to deal with him. If we draw it, then it's quite literally a dead card before Fate comes down.
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Thanks vlor, updating OP with modified "Fate Rules"!
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Twitch: MTGJankmaster; lurking>streaming (but maybe one day when I get good at magic)
xMage: Jankmaster Commander - Now Playing WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUWRHomura, Human AscendantRRGBorborygmos EnragedGRURMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRBURSaheeli, the GiftedRUWRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
So after a brief hiatus on here, I've managed to do some more testing (not online) and actually start picking up the cards for the deck. There is one matchup that the deck refused to win pre-board (Bant) but was totally fine locking out UB Infect, BW midrange(?) and U Merfolk, so I feel that experience knowing how this deck plays and expectations of how the opponent plays are paramount in the ideal "G1 Fateseal G2 Twin and Win" scenario - but at the same time, some decks will just play too many threats, have their own counters, or will have resilient threats that may make game 1 nigh unwinnable sometimes.
You may notice the deck is currently at 58 cards - I replaced the City of Brass with Shivan Reef and Ghost Quarter, which meant I had to pull out Thoughtseize, leaving 2 open spaces.
I feel like the deck needs a bit more "dig" power, either for counters or removal. I'll be testing the deck with 2x Think Twice and 2x Squelch to see if any of those work in here. Thoughts?
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I really like this deck and I like how it attacks the metagame. Played against a relatively clear/stable board, Shared Fate really does just end the game. I'm gonna test up a few games against some tier 1 opponents (BG Rock, Jund, Affinity, and Twin) to see how the deck does and where its biggest strengths/weaknesses lie.
Really stupid question, but how are you winning? I see how you lock them out, but as far as casting their spells to beat them, how do you produce colored mana that works with their deck? I'm seeing a lot of lists without Exotic Orchard/City of Brass. Do we just hope we draw their lands and play them?
By the way, I think white is the color we want to play. White gives us exile spot removal and board wipes. Wall of Omens could also be good here.
ktkenshinx, I'm looking forward to some further research and analysis, your work with Green Goblin (Forest Belcher) was very informative.
Funny thing happened last weekend. I was playing an esper control deck and faced down this kind of deck. Won game 1 due to discard and counters. Landed an Aetherling to actually deal the lethal, but what was funny was what happened game 2. I sided out all my win cons. This left the fate player in quite the bind. He had no way to win and I had no way to win. As soon as he realized it he rage quit at the shop. I guess Im saying all this to say you literally have to have a transformational sb or you just lose the match if you get unlucky game 1. Time or concession. You pick.
Edit: Thought it may either make you laugh or learn something if I went into detail about the games. Game 1 I was able to counter 2 Fates even through discard. I packed a lot of counters in the deck and IoKed a discard spell of his, but the way he SBed made me know he didnt put in a win package. He boarded 3 cards in then took 3 cards out. Idk if you are doing this, but stop if you are. Game 2 I went second. Drew my card and discarded it. Not playing a land or even looking at my hand the whole game for that matter. Next turn picked up a card and placed it in the graveyard. He looked very confused. Turn 3 he got a thoughtseize and casted it. I passed him my hand and said if you are looking for a win condition you wont find one. I boarded them out. Thats when he tossed my hand, started yelling and left the store. Lol.
I guess my point is always put your sb into your deck and take out 15 cards. That way your opponent wont know what you actually boarded. ESPECIALLY with this deck.
Also blue pact is nice here. If you can cast fate you can almost always pay for pact. Allows you to cast it when you fear a single counterspell. Just look out for quarters and edges.
Really stupid question, but how are you winning? I see how you lock them out, but as far as casting their spells to beat them, how do you produce colored mana that works with their deck? I'm seeing a lot of lists without Exotic Orchard/City of Brass. Do we just hope we draw their lands and play them?
By the way, I think white is the color we want to play. White gives us exile spot removal and board wipes. Wall of Omens could also be good here.
ktkenshinx, I'm looking forward to some further research and analysis, your work with Green Goblin (Forest Belcher) was very informative.
The last line of text on Shared Fate ("Each player may play cards he or she exiled with Shared Fate") includes land. You'd hope to draw into their lands and thus be able to play their own cards.
I also look forward to the results of ktkenshinx's testing
Funny thing happened last weekend. I was playing an esper control deck and faced down this kind of deck. Won game 1 due to discard and counters. Landed an Aetherling to actually deal the lethal, but what was funny was what happened game 2. I sided out all my win cons. This left the fate player in quite the bind. He had no way to win and I had no way to win. As soon as he realized it he rage quit at the shop. I guess Im saying all this to say you literally have to have a transformational sb or you just lose the match if you get unlucky game 1. Time or concession. You pick.
Edit: Thought it may either make you laugh or learn something if I went into detail about the games. Game 1 I was able to counter 2 Fates even through discard. I packed a lot of counters in the deck and IoKed a discard spell of his, but the way he SBed made me know he didnt put in a win package. He boarded 3 cards in then took 3 cards out. Idk if you are doing this, but stop if you are. Game 2 I went second. Drew my card and discarded it. Not playing a land or even looking at my hand the whole game for that matter. Next turn picked up a card and placed it in the graveyard. He looked very confused. Turn 3 he got a thoughtseize and casted it. I passed him my hand and said if you are looking for a win condition you wont find one. I boarded them out. Thats when he tossed my hand, started yelling and left the store. Lol.
I guess my point is always put your sb into your deck and take out 15 cards. That way your opponent wont know what you actually boarded. ESPECIALLY with this deck.
Also blue pact is nice here. If you can cast fate you can almost always pay for pact. Allows you to cast it when you fear a single counterspell. Just look out for quarters and edges.
HAHAHAHA Thank you for sharing that, megatog. That is definitely a way to counter the deck after winning game 1, but the player's reaction was pretty hilarious as well. Playing such a ridiculous deck and subjecting people to this hilarity, there is absolutely no reason to ragequit when someone gets clever and using a similar tactic against you!
While pact would appear to be great, since it's free, the fact that this is not an "I win on the spot" combo means that the Pact is a dead card until at least turn 5. I think that if anything, it might merit testing as a 2-of or something similar. Thank you for the suggestion
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Twitch: MTGJankmaster; lurking>streaming (but maybe one day when I get good at magic)
xMage: Jankmaster Commander - Now Playing WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUWRHomura, Human AscendantRRGBorborygmos EnragedGRURMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRBURSaheeli, the GiftedRUWRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
This is the U/W version I've been goldfishing with. I don't have problem really running into Shared Fate. I have a ton of permission and draw. I'm considering running Condescend though. Thoughts on that? Gitaxian Probe is very good, because we can ensure they don't have any removal for Shared Fate.
This is the U/W version I've been goldfishing with. I don't have problem really running into Shared Fate. I have a ton of permission and draw. I'm considering running Condescend though. Thoughts on that? Gitaxian Probe is very good, because we can ensure they don't have any removal for Shared Fate.
The unfortunate fact about this deck is that goldfishing it gives you almost no data (short of whether you're hitting your colors properly or not), just because the deck is so dependent on the opponent - burning away creatures, countering what it can't otherwise deal with, and finally landing the lock all require an assessment of the current position.
I like the wraths and paths, just watch out because they can be used against you. What I do not like is Condescend - while it allows us to scry regardless, you would often need to tap out to actually counter the spell, which is not something we want to do because that can let something that we can't deal with slip in - for UR, that may be Phyrexian Crusader, for UW that may be Geist, or a generic known threat like ScOoze or Goyf. I, personally, think I'd rather attempt to throw two counters for 4 mana rather than a single Condescend. But of course, feel free to try it out and let us know how it worked for you
If you like Probe's peeking effect, I'd also recommend Peek - maybe as a 2/2 split with Think Twice or something along those lines.
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xMage: Jankmaster Commander - Now Playing WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUWRHomura, Human AscendantRRGBorborygmos EnragedGRURMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRBURSaheeli, the GiftedRUWRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
Sad that people are giving up on this deck. It has a ton of potential. I agree that Condescend isn't the best fit. I've been testing the deck a bit and against certain aggro match ups the deck does extremely well. Azorius Charm is an excellent card in this deck, it can cantrip, and it also has the option of buying you a turn or two which is exactly what this deck wants to do.
But the issue is he is a win con. That by the rules of the thread means he cant be played. You cast fate and they draw your Ashes eventually means you lose. Unless you are suggesting post board. Then yeah itll work.
I don't like Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver here, for a lot of reasons actually. He's not good enough to tap out for early game, and mid/late game he's basically win more. I also think white is better than black for this deck because Path To Exile, Supreme Verdict and Wall of Omens are all pure gold. black has Damnation, but the uncounterable clause on Supreme Verdict is huge. Black has nothing comparable to Path To Exile, the only thing I can think of would be Dismember, but it's much worse. Wall of Omens can't be matched, sorry Bob, but you don't work with multiple cards that are 4-5 CMC.
1 - The Trailer
Imagine a
worlddeck. Your average Modern deck. You want it to do well, so you've stuck to your strategy and filled it with the best cards you can. Jund? In go Lilianas and Confidants. UWR? Snapcasters and Bolts and Helices are your best friends. Zoo? Kird Ape and Loam Lion and now you have Wild Nacatl as your latest superweapon. They are your cards, in your deck, that only you can have. They are strong cards that YOU want to use to WIN.It just happens that WE want to use them first.
2 Why do(n't) I want to play this deck?
You might want to play this deck if:
-You enjoy out-of-the-box strategies
-You enjoy leaving your opponents helpless
-You enjoy beating your opponent down with their own cards
-You enjoy playing Blue
-You enjoy one-card-combos
You probably do NOT want to play this deck if:
-You want to hit 20 ASAP
-You prefer assembling a doomsday device and winning on the spot
-You want games over as soon as possible
-You do not like Blue
-You hold no attraction for locks
3 - So what exactly is Fate Seal, anyway?
Welcome to Fate-Seal, where all you do is answer your opponent and your own deck doesn't matter. Well, it does, just read on and you'll see what I mean.
Take a look at the following list, for instance (my original and outdated Fate-Storm list):
2 Pyromancer Ascension
4 Desperate Ravings
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Think Twice
3 Burning Inquiry
2 Faithless Looting
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Pyroclasm
5 Island
5 Mountain
4 Shivan Reef
4 Steam Vents
This is, at first glance, just a pile of cards. There are lands to make mana, spells to make mana, spells to that deal damage exclusively to creatures, and spells that draw cards. There are exactly zero ways to deal damage to an opponent directly, exactly zero creatures that attack, and exactly zero combos of any sort. It's a pile of cards that essentially does absolutely nothing.
This is a deck that has no win condition.
Huh?
And then there's Shared Fate.
Shared Fate makes it so that essentially, I draw from your deck and you draw from my deck. Except this deck does not have any way to harm us back. Which, in turn, means that when Fate hits the board, if the opponent controls no creatures that can attack and kill you and is not holding anything that can remove it, they are locked into a deck that does absolutely nothing except draw more cards. Meanwhile, you play out of their deck and can (semi-safely) proceed to beat them down.
This thread is for the discussion of decks that use Shared Fate aggressively to lock the opponent, instead of what is likely the intended use of creating silly game states.
4 - Huh. So how exactly does one go about building a deck that doesn't do anything?
I'm glad you asked! With the help of Team Fate-Seal (2-3 other users that are active in the thread), I have come up with a list of "Rules" - well, not so much Rules as Guidelines for how to build a "successful" deck that "can't win".
So before you go out and build your own Fate deck or comment with suggestions, here are some things to keep in mind:
Fate Rule #1 - No Remand. This might come as a shocker to some. While is a fantastic counterspell, it really undermines the deck. If the opponent draws it, it allows them to return a threat we play back to their hand and play it for themselves.
Fate Rule #2 - Watch your creatures! Non-wall creatures are generally known for having a power value and the ability to attack, which allows them to deal damage. Running creatures alongside Fate allows the opponent to actually draw into something that can be a threat, which is a threat to our game plan. Notable exceptions can be things like Spellskite or Wall of Omens.
Fate Rule #3 - Watch your burn! If you decide to run Red in Fate, an impulse you might have to stifle is to auto-stuff a playset of Bolts in there. The issue with that is that Bolts can be thrown at both creatures and players. If someone has gotten you to 3 or less life before Fate drops, you've suddenly giving them a way out of the lock.
Fate Rule #4 - Watch your digging! I know, we're playing blue, and we're trying to hit specific cards so we need to dig as much as we can. Serum Visions? Is fine, since it's still a draw. Sleight of Hand or Peer Through Depths? Is not fine, as they do not explicitly draw, meaning it allows them to break out of the lock temporarily, and grab a threat or something that can remove Fate.
Fate Rule #5 - Watch your removal! If you play too much, your opponent has a decent chance of drawing and using it themselves. If it returns things to owner's hand, such as Vapor Snag or Echoing Truth, they can get their things back (similar to Rule #1).
Fate Rule #6 - Watch your sideboard! There are some matchups against very resilient decks that the main plan will simply not win against. Plan for it with silver bullets in the board or a transformative sideboard.
Tips/Tricks:
-Hand disruption is a very useful tool as it can wreck their pre-Fate plan, and you could care less about your hand post-Fate.
-If Fate lands properly, they should be locked out of the game. No need to overextend, take it slow and take as few risks as possible once Fate lands.
5 - Well that's all fine and dandy, but can I see how the deck actually looks?
While the goal of game 1 with this deck is to land at the opportune time when it will not be able to be answered (what I like to call the Fate-Lock or Fate-Seal), there are several color combinations that seem to make this possible. This deck has had no serious results (that I know of), so this section is entirely speculative and based on observation.
5.1 - Izzet Fate
The main idea of splashing Red into Fate is that it allows for a transformational sideboard plan with two well-known combos in UR - Storm or Twin. The core of the deck remains Blue, but Red also provides access to damage-based removal and sweepers (Pyroclasm, Anger of the Gods) and a "swiss-army knife" in Izzet Charm. Out of the board, you have 4 Pestermite, 4 Exarch and 4 Twin coming out replacing the Fates and 4 other cards of choice (generally, the sweepers).
This is my most recent build of UR FateTwin:
4 Peek
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Serum Visions
3 Think Twice
4 Mana Leak
4 Rune Snag
2 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Pyroclasm
6 Island
5 Mountain
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Shivan Reef
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Pestermite
4 Splinter Twin
2 Spell Pierce
5.2 - Grixis Fate
Grixis Fate can also use the exile clause of Anger, but it also gets more efficient sweepers in Damnation and a tutor in Brainspoil. The REAL reason you splash black, however, is hand disruption. Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize are very strong in this deck. They're strong for their ability to rip threats/responses out in any deck, but they're especially strong because they provide information about the hand to guide when it may be safe to drop Fate, AND they get rid of a potential answer to Fate or a threat they might be able to clock us with. After Fate drops, it is literally a dead card for them - we could care less about our hand, and anything we "draw" off Fate gets exiled and is not subject to hand disruption.
vlor's last updated Grixis Fate list:
4 Damnation
4 Pyroclasm
4 Brainspoil
4 Magma Spray
4 Dreadbore
4 Duress
2 Coalition Relic
1 Watery Grave
2 Blood Crypt
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
4 Arid Mesa
1 Stomping Ground
1 Godless Shrine
2 Reflecting Pool
1 Mountain
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Think Twice
2 Devour Flesh
4 Wild Guess
2 Devour Flesh
2 Sudden Death
1 Terminate
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
And vlor's Grixis Fate-Twin
4 Shared Fate
2 Devour Flesh
4 Think Twice
4 Magma Spray
4 Terminate
3 Brainspoil
4 Damnation
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
2 Darkslick
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Graven Cairns
2 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
2 Reflecting Pool
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vent
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
4 Deceiver Exarch
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Pestermite
1 Zealous Consripts
4 Splinter Twin
5.3 - AzoriusFate
This is a color combination that is played by Honor Basquiat. The addition of White allows the addition of Wall of Omens, Supreme Verdict, and Path to Exile among others, which are well-known to be control powerhouses. The Wall can block, draws a card, and can't attack post-Fate, which is fantastic; the Verdict is an uncounterable wipe and the Path is a cheap removal, which are all things we want to see.
4x Mana Leak
4x Rune Snag
2x Spell Snare
4x Path to Exile
4x Supreme Verdict
2x Azorius Charm
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Wall of Omens
4x Mind Stone
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Seachrome Coast
6x Island
4x Plains
2x Exotic Orchard
Will accept any comments, both "this is cool" and "wth is this pile of jank", but help improving this would be very greatly appreciated
Thanks, MTGS
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
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BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I like the idea though.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Desperate Ritual is in the Stormboard. I fear having too many Rituals in the Fateboard might leave me with too many rituals and nothing to do with them. SSG could work, though it runs the risk of being cast out and beating me down. Good catch on Anger of the Gods - any suggestions for replacements for Anger and SSG?
Thank you! That's my main issue with it too, I find :/ and that's why I'm here to see if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions on improvements
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
Thanks a lot vlor! Feel free to use this thread for anything you discover in your testing!
Before going into anything else, I am more of a janky Johnny builder than a Storm player. Storm was just a convenient trans-board idea that uses a bunch of the same draw spells. I'm willing to change the concept to make Fate more functional, of course.
To answer your concerns:
Re:removal - there's Flame Slash, and there's Pyroclasm as well. But I agree, there isn't too much protection until an active Ascension.
Re:number of Fates - At one point I actually had it at four, but I removed one as I drew into doubles rather often (though it could have just been iffy shuffling on Cockatrice while goldfishing). The fact that it's a five-drop means that generally I only need to see one of them per game. If I see more (or less) it won't end well :/
Re:Ascension weak to Fate removal - that is true, but the logic behind the transformative sideboard is that the opponent will try to save removal for Fate to leave me without a wincon. This leaves the Ascension safe - or at least safer than pure storm where the opp knows that Ascension is a kill-on-sight target.
Re:your pointers-
1) I agree on the usefulness of discard here - you get to see their hand and clear out any potential threats or Fate removal - but you are only running 4 Duress. Would IoK not make the better mainboard discard? It would be able to pick off critters AND removal, while Duress can only hunt down removal?
2) Remand is a trap, and is probably a never-include in this deck.
3) Putting in cards my opponent can't use shouldn't be much of an issue, since in both our decks we have no way for them to win, though you have a lot more removal than I do.
My two concerns with your deck are:
1) The amount of removal. There is a lot of it. While removal is good, it makes it possible for them to use your own deck to start blowing up their creatures.
2) The lack of an alternate wincondition. Assuming they take the loss game 1 to the lock, games 2 and 3 they will be much more prepared against the deck to take it down, both in terms of siding in specific removals but also in how the deck functions and what the key targets (well, target) are (is). The Stormboard was originally created to take advantage of that, and attempt to surprise them by turning into a completely different deck.
Does your deck have any sort of experience from piloting it could share?
Props for also trying this deck out, I hope to see you around on this thread more!
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
I've actually thought of boarding into Twin as well.
Upsides:
-Allows for more control spells in the Fateboard (Mana Leak, Rune Snag, etc.) to not let anything drop onto the board and allows limited protection of Fate
-Allows for more flex slots in general and does not require the constricted selections that are necessary to make boarding into Storm possible.
However..
Downside:
-Essentially locks the sideboard into 4 Exarch 4 Pestermite 4 Twin, allowing only 3 other "answers".
Here's my idea for a "Fate-Twin":
Draw:
4 Peek
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
Stack Control:
4 Mana Leak
4 Rune Snag
4 Spell Pierce
Board Control:
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Pyroclasm
4 Izzet Charm
Bonus Feature 2 - Protection:
2 Spellskite
Land: 22
4 Shivan Reef
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
5 Mountain
5 Island
4 Exarch
4 Pestermite
4 Twin
3 Lightning Bolt*
As for the "bonus features", they're just convenient new additions that aren't really run in Storm, but can be run here:
-Spellskite protects Fate from broad artifact/enchant removal, AND protects the Twin combo AND walls 3 and lower power critters pre-board
-Izzet Charm (in theory) literally does everything we want it to - can protect Fate, can burn creatures, can draw us cards when we need lands or Fate
For the 3x flex slot in the board I opted for Lightning Bolt. The only thing I have yet to figure out for this build is what 12/15 get boarded out. I realize some creature-lite builds might not care about Bolt too much, but at least 12 slots need to be open to board properly.
OUT:
3 Fate
3 Anger
2 Pyroclasm
is only 8. Maybe 12 counters is too much for Twin and I can settle for 8 boarding out Snag? I have zero experience with Twin ._.
I've played two matches with Fatestorm since then. One I lost because Fate was too slow g1 and got unlucky with storm g2; The other I only managed to play 1 game because had to leave for dinner, was against grave-based zombie deck running Gravecrawlers and Bloodghasts which Fate kinda almost auto-scoops to. Perhaps burn that exiles needs to replace the existing burn? (Pyroclasm -> Anger, Flame Slash -> Magma Spray?)
---------------------------------------
As per the additional colors, you're mostly right, I think. Oust makes a very interesting addition - dead to them, but not only makes them lose a creature, but with Fate we can get it within a few turns. As for what is the best secondary color, I think it would depend on the build. In a "pure-Fate" deck (one that aims to win via Fate both games), Dimir is probably the strongest as it offers hand disruption to minimize their ability to disrupt us, as well as sweepers and "hard" (not damage-based) removal. If going with a transformative sideboard, Izzet has the "easiest" board-in as its combos have cards synergistic with the main plan.
Discounting budget, I wonder if a Grixis build is viable, using the following landbase:
4 Blood Crypt
4 City of Brass
5 Swamp
5 Island
Where the U is for drawing and Fate, B for Damnation and IoK/Thoughtseize, and R for Anger/Pyroclasm. This also gives a split of 13/13/12 in terms of U/B/R sources, so hitting BB and RR isn't unrealistic. Scalding Tarns can be added at convenience, but unless this deck manages semi-consistent wins I cannot see myself dropping $50/card o.o haha. For the Grixis build, an option could be to run the Twinboard with the 3x flex slot as hand control like Duress.
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
4 Peek
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Mana Leak
4 Rune Snag
2 Spell Pierce
4 Izzet Charm
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Pyroclasm
5 Island
5 Mountain
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
4 City of Brass
1 Gemstone Mine
4 Exarch
4 Pestermite
4 Twin
1 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
Essentially, the main changes are-
Main:
-2 Spellskite
-1 Spell Pierce
+2 Thoughtseize
+1 land
Side:
-3 Bolt
+2 Thoughtseize
+1 Spell Pierce
To accomodate for the 'seizes, the playset of Shivan Reef was replaced with City of Brass (because if I'm getting pained, might as well have it enable discard). City of Brass also allows us to start casting cards almost right away and not have to wait to hit the proper lands. Just need to mind any creatures in play, and how much life you're giving up to Vents/City/Thoughtseize/Probes
Sadly, this deck is difficult to test properly on Cockatrice, which is my main avenue of playing these days, because as expected, there has so far been a 100% quit rate if Fate lands the lock. The last game I played with the newly modified list, the last turn was Probe seeing 3 PtE and 1 Thundermaw -> Fate -> Thoughtseize nuking Thundermaw, pass turn, proceed to "draw" Geist of St. Win -> next turn concede and leave. Sooooo I'm likely going to proxy it up and start taking it with me to LGSs and seeing if people would be up for helping me test a deck or something, since post-board games with this are pretty non-existent.
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
And yeah definitely need 4 shared fates. I love the idea for the deck
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
4 Mind Stone
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Think Twice
2 Spell Snare
4 Serum Visions
2 Dispel
4 Mana Leak
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Path to Exile
4 Rune Snag
4 Island
4 Exotic Orchard
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Plains
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Thanks for the list, and welcome to Team Fate-Seal
Interesting take on the deck. Since the games can go long and grindy, do you find Ghostly Prison to do much? I've had games that went long enough for Mana Leak to not be able to counter important things, but I guess they're similar in that respect, and in their negative synergy with Path to Exile.
OP updated with new lists!
Also,
Thoughtseize is a powerful tool for removing things that might still be in their hand, so I'll keep them in for now, but I could definitely test Dispels over Pierces.
Thanks for the suggestions!
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
Played 4 games when I was able to find the time in my hectic, bronchitis ridden day.
First two games I won after landing the fate, cuz I kep the board clear.
then I played a match vs folk and got crushed. Deck needed Tec edges lol
But, I was on my grandparents computer. Now im heading home and I've already scribbled down an esper list with a Geist sb plan, or Gifts Sb plan, haven't decided yet.
Imo Black is the 2nd core color behind blue. Without IoK or Thoughtseize, the deck feels like it will never beat a resolved walker, specifically Karn or Liliana. And playing any counterspells just seems pretty bad for us....idk.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
The whole counterspells idea, while adapted from my transform into Twin plan, also helps to control the early game and make sure the opponent can't get away with anything silly, like t3 Karn or Liliana, while also supporting the post-board plan. I definitely agree that hand disruption is a champ though - especially in this deck, where you can snipe out threats that your removal cannot deal with or that can impede Fate.
Would you mind posting your Grixis list? I'm curious to see what you've included for your removal suite.
Leveler is actually pretty bad in this deck, because if they draw him after Fate lands, they get all the benefits, and we have to figure out how to deal with him. If we draw it, then it's quite literally a dead card before Fate comes down.
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
Here is my current build:
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Pyroclasm
4 Mana Leak
4 Rune Snag
2 Spell Pierce
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Peek
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
3 Shivan Reef
2 Ghost Quarter
5 Island
5 Mountain
You may notice the deck is currently at 58 cards - I replaced the City of Brass with Shivan Reef and Ghost Quarter, which meant I had to pull out Thoughtseize, leaving 2 open spaces.
I feel like the deck needs a bit more "dig" power, either for counters or removal. I'll be testing the deck with 2x Think Twice and 2x Squelch to see if any of those work in here. Thoughts?
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
By the way, I think white is the color we want to play. White gives us exile spot removal and board wipes. Wall of Omens could also be good here.
ktkenshinx, I'm looking forward to some further research and analysis, your work with Green Goblin (Forest Belcher) was very informative.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Edit: Thought it may either make you laugh or learn something if I went into detail about the games. Game 1 I was able to counter 2 Fates even through discard. I packed a lot of counters in the deck and IoKed a discard spell of his, but the way he SBed made me know he didnt put in a win package. He boarded 3 cards in then took 3 cards out. Idk if you are doing this, but stop if you are. Game 2 I went second. Drew my card and discarded it. Not playing a land or even looking at my hand the whole game for that matter. Next turn picked up a card and placed it in the graveyard. He looked very confused. Turn 3 he got a thoughtseize and casted it. I passed him my hand and said if you are looking for a win condition you wont find one. I boarded them out. Thats when he tossed my hand, started yelling and left the store. Lol.
I guess my point is always put your sb into your deck and take out 15 cards. That way your opponent wont know what you actually boarded. ESPECIALLY with this deck.
Also blue pact is nice here. If you can cast fate you can almost always pay for pact. Allows you to cast it when you fear a single counterspell. Just look out for quarters and edges.
The last line of text on Shared Fate ("Each player may play cards he or she exiled with Shared Fate") includes land. You'd hope to draw into their lands and thus be able to play their own cards.
I also look forward to the results of ktkenshinx's testing
HAHAHAHA Thank you for sharing that, megatog. That is definitely a way to counter the deck after winning game 1, but the player's reaction was pretty hilarious as well. Playing such a ridiculous deck and subjecting people to this hilarity, there is absolutely no reason to ragequit when someone gets clever and using a similar tactic against you!
While pact would appear to be great, since it's free, the fact that this is not an "I win on the spot" combo means that the Pact is a dead card until at least turn 5. I think that if anything, it might merit testing as a 2-of or something similar. Thank you for the suggestion
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
It's out of my budget, but for the sideboard, consider Leyline of Sanctity, because a Duress taking out Shared Fate hurts really badly.
4x Shared Fate
4x Mana Leak
4x Rune Snag
2x Dispel
2x Spell Snare
4x Supreme Verdict
4x Think Twice
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Wall of Omens
4x Mind Stone
4x Glacial Fortress
8x Island
6x Plains
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
The unfortunate fact about this deck is that goldfishing it gives you almost no data (short of whether you're hitting your colors properly or not), just because the deck is so dependent on the opponent - burning away creatures, countering what it can't otherwise deal with, and finally landing the lock all require an assessment of the current position.
I like the wraths and paths, just watch out because they can be used against you. What I do not like is Condescend - while it allows us to scry regardless, you would often need to tap out to actually counter the spell, which is not something we want to do because that can let something that we can't deal with slip in - for UR, that may be Phyrexian Crusader, for UW that may be Geist, or a generic known threat like ScOoze or Goyf. I, personally, think I'd rather attempt to throw two counters for 4 mana rather than a single Condescend. But of course, feel free to try it out and let us know how it worked for you
If you like Probe's peeking effect, I'd also recommend Peek - maybe as a 2/2 split with Think Twice or something along those lines.
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
This is my current list.
4x Shared Fate
4x Mana Leak
4x Rune Snag
2x Spell Snare
4x Path to Exile
4x Supreme Verdict
2x Azorius Charm
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Wall of Omens
4x Mind Stone
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Seachrome Coast
6x Island
4x Plains
2x Exotic Orchard
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate