Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism -how passionately I hate them!
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Things like CoP red, dragonstorm, gigadrowse, hunted dragon drawback and any other nasty ability that would be bad for your health.
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RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
I fail to see the point of dizzy spell against aggro. it gets rid of a lone creature...pyroclasm is so much better. so what if it can transmute for rite of flame.
I have to agree against aggro with pyroclasm. only things like kird ape and watchwolf have 3 power so pyroclasm is useless in that case but for general aggro it works.
of course i don't like dizzy spell anyway.
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I fail to see the point of dizzy spell against aggro. it gets rid of a lone creature...pyroclasm is so much better. so what if it can transmute for rite of flame.
Dizzy Spell is a way to get your Gigadrowse so you can go off in peace against control decks.
Ok, here's a Champs tournament report by me on the Dragonstorm deck I played.
Storming Champs
I decided to take Dragonstorm to WV Champs, not because it's the best deck, but because I though it would be fun. And yes it was the most fun deck I've ever played.
Here is the deck list I ran
Game 1 - He proceeds to beat and burn me to death with Dark Confidant and Chars, I never get anywhere near going off.
Game 2 - He starts off good, then I begin casting Bogardan Hellkites. He gets me down to 5 life while he's at 8 life. I swing with Bogardan Hellkite and then cast another to finish the game.
Game 3 - He burns me down to 8 with Dark Confidant, Rakdos Guildmage and burn. I then proceed to combo out on him for the win.
Match Analysis - This was pretty much a race to the finish on who can burn who faster.
Record 1-0-0
Round 2 - Zachary Cavis playing Solar Pox
Game 1 - I proceed to combo out on him on turn 4, while he is tapped out and unable to do anything about it.
Game 3 - I try all I can to stall him because I don't have the combo yet, and there was only a couple miniutes left in the round. He plays Angel of Despair and falls short 2 turns from killing me with it. We ran out of time, the game ended in a draw.
Match Analysis - This should have been a fairly easy matchup, but due to my lack of sideboarding skills, I dropped the ball here.
Game 1 - He plays a Soul Warden on his turn 1, then on his second turn tries to play Wild Cantor. me knowing he needs the Wild Cantor in play for the combo to work Remands it. So he plays another Soul Warden and attacks with a Soul Warden. Next turn he attacks with 2 Soul Wardenon my turn I go off with Dragonstorm for 5, winning the game.
Game 2 - This game was a little fuzzy because it happened so quickly, but he plays an Ivory Mask the turn before I go off. I go off with Dragonstorm for 6, getting all of my dragons. Stacking their comes into play abilities I bring the 2 Hunted Dragons into play first, then a Bogardan Hellkite targets a Hunted Dragon, and another Bogardan Hellkite targets the other Hunted Dragon, the next Bogardan Hellkite comes into play dealing 4 damage to the first Bogardan Hellkite and 1 damage to me, and the same with the next one. I swing for 12 on that turn and pass the turn. Next turn I swing with all to win the game.
Match Analysis - I really don't know what to say about this matchup, it was the 2nd easiest one all day. I am however, glad he didn't have Wrath of God in hand the 2nd game. I risked the game and won it.
Record - 2-0-1
Round 4 - Bob Levdansky playing B/R/W Firemane Angel control with lots of discard
Game 1 - This was simply an aweful matchup for Dragonstorm, lots of Castigates and the turn before I was to go off a Persecute naming red for my entire hand. He eventually kills me with a Firemane Angel.
Match Analysis - There was nothing I could have done to make this matchup any better. This deck was the worst matchup all day. And I don't think I coulde have won 1 out of 10 games against this deck.
Record - 2-1-1
Round 5 - James Frye playing Solar Pox
Game 1 - I play a land and suspend Lotus Bloom, his turn he plays a land and passes the turn. I play a land and pass the turn. he plays a land and tries to play a Dimir Signet, I Remand it. My turn land, go. His turn land, Dimir Signet, I Remand it again. My turn land, go. His turn land, Compulsive Research. My turn I Dragonstorm for 4, winnign the game.
Game 2 - Nothing happened this game until his turn 5, but on his turn 5, I cast Gigadrowse tapping him out. And then on my turn I go off with Dragonstorm for the win. We ended up talking for about 10 more miniutes after this game before the match slips finally arrive.
Match Analysis - This was the easiest match I played all day. He pretty much did nothing and I went off.
Match Analysis - I went into this game overconfidant and overexcited, knowing this was for the top 8. My play skill turned to mush after game 1. And game 2 was easily the stupidest thing i've ever done in a game of Magic, he should have thanked me for giving him the game on a silver platter.
Record - 4-2-1
My Thoughts on the Sideboard
Wipe Away - This was very useful and would have been more useful if I had sideboarded it in more.
Gigadrowse - This was also a great and very useful card, but was not needed as much as everyone had told me it would be. The aggressive decks I played against this would not have affected aside from the U/G Aggro matchup. It's only useful about half the time, so definately not a maindeck 4 of auto include.
Pyroclasm - In the game I sided these in they won it for me. Definately a must have in the sideboard.
Tormod's Crypt - I sided these in once or twice and they didn't do me that much good. Definately stays in though, as there are a lot of decks dependant on their graveyards now.
Shadow of Doubt - I definately like these over Trickbind. You can let the Dragonstorm player go off then simply deny him his dragons, making him waste several cards in the process while drawing one yourself. While I didn't have the opportunity to test these out, I did get to see them in action against me and my friend quite a bit, and they are very effective.
Overview - Dragonstorm can definately beat just about everything as the game I drew was due to my playing mistakes, and one of the match losses was due to me playing very stupidly. The only loss I can't claim as my fault was to the R/W/B discard deck which decimated me.
Q. Why no Tron?
A. I didn't play Tron in this because it only slows it down. If I want to hard cast dragons I'll use one of the 9 extra mana sources in the deck.
Q. Why no Infernal Tutor?
A. While yes, on paper it looks amazing, in actual playtesting it did poorly for me, Drift of Phantasms took its place.
Q. Why no storage lands?
A. I didn't see that much benefit verses clogging my mana base with less useful lands. In the end it turns out I never needed them.
Q. Why no storage lands?
A. I didn't see that much benefit verses clogging my mana base with less useful lands. In the end it turns out I never needed them.
I don't think running a whopping 4 Gemstone Mine is exactly the answer to a solid manabase. Running that many is going to hurt you more than the storage lands allegedly could have.
I don't use other mana sources like Signets, except for the Blooms of course.
This seems a lot more stable to me than both of the manabases posted above. A lone Gemstone Mine gives you a slight potential advantage, but doesn't really hinder you at all. Though, perhaps cutting an Island for a second Mine would be more beneficial.
I don't use other mana sources like Signets, except for the Blooms of course.
I've never really had any problems with the Gemstone Mines running out of counters. When it's the long game they're gonna drop more lands than me anyways. So I just use the other lands for mana. Remember this is supposed to go off between turn 4 and 7 at the latest. You shouldn't have to worry about something like that.
I've never really had any problems with the Gemstone Mines running out of counters. When it's the long game they're gonna drop more lands than me anyways. So I just use the other lands for mana. Remember this is supposed to go off between turn 4 and 7 at the latest. You shouldn't have to worry about something like that.
With the power of control decks now, ignoring any potential (and likely) late-game is suicidal.
Trying to win on turn 4-7 against any deck running any sort of decent counter right now isn't really that effective of a strategy. You have to consider the possibility of a late-game.
I personally don't like storage lands, because they only give you one or the other...i think gemstone mine is better and NEVER have i run out of counters from it. i mean ever.
I'm curious as to how many people play signets, though.
Just a quick question, but hwats a reliable way to deal with dragonstorm decks? Currently, I have trickbind in my side, but I need something a bit more reliable.
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Looking for people to test T2 with me on MWS, Pacific or Mountain time preffered
Dragonstorm is becomming my favourite deck, because it is so easy and fun to play. What do you think about 3 Mishra's Maubles in md, they are a spell just for 0 mana and can help to draw a combo cards in early game?
You guys are still very confused. You claim that Gigadrowse/storage lands/Dizzy Spell/some card is useless, then you say you're having trouble with a particular matchup or strategy that the very card you dismissed is intended to be used against!
The only problem I see here is he cut a land, which isn't a great idea, as most of my losses with the deck were due to mana screw. Ignorant Bliss is better than the Defense Grids I had in the board now, as discard is far more prevalent and more of a problem.
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...the lack of power of Divining Top is similarly obvious.
BTape - The problem with the storage lands lies with the fact that if you're in a pinch for a color, you've got to wait a turn before you'll get any color out of it (and that's after having paid essentially for it).
BTape - The problem with the storage lands lies with the fact that if you're in a pinch for a color, you've got to wait a turn before you'll get any color out of it (and that's after having paid essentially for it).
The Mine does not suffer from this pitfall.
The storage lands are good with Gigadrowse. You see, against the control decks, you can't match them in land drops. They will outmana you so you can't Gigadrowse them out. Enter the storage lands. The storage lands let you make pseudo-land drops against control decks so that you can Gigadrowse their board. Against any non-black control deck you don't just foolishly race for the kill, you bide your time until you can 'drowse their board and go off.
The storage lands are good with Gigadrowse. You see, against the control decks, you can't match them in land drops. They will outmana you so you can't Gigadrowse them out. Enter the storage lands. The storage lands let you make pseudo-land drops against control decks so that you can Gigadrowse their board. Against any non-black control deck you don't just foolishly race for the kill, you bide your time until you can 'drowse their board and go off.
That is true.
I'll give the storage lands a bit more testing time then.
Dragonstorm is becomming my favourite deck, because it is so easy and fun to play. What do you think about 3 Mishra's Maubles in md, they are a spell just for 0 mana and can help to draw a combo cards in early game?
no, bc they take up spots that can have better uses.
@btape: i am suggesting that some things are better against troublesome matchups than others.
I agree with everything in Brian Eaton deck except Shadow of Doubt in the SB. Trickbind can't be cycled, but it has SPLIT SECOND and is much more versatile. If you say it's for the mirror match, you can trickbind their gigadrowse and remand their Dragonstorm. Or in another condition trickbind your Hunted Dragon. It's just more versatile.
It's a cycling card x a more versatile and with split second.
Here is a sample decklist, played by Brian Eaton to second plaze in Arizona States 06:
9 Island
2 Dreadship Reef
2 Gemstone Mine
4 Shivan Reef
4 Steam Vents
Creatures
4 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Grozoth
2 Hunted Dragon
4 Gigadrowse
4 Remand
4 Seething Song
4 Telling Time
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Dragonstorm
4 Rite Of Flame
4 Sleight Of Hand
3 Dizzy Spell
4 Ignorant Bliss
4 Mana Leak
2 Shadow Of Doubt
2 Trickbind
[thread=41221][my extendo sig][/thread] [thread=56664][moderator helpdesk][/thread] [Pen and Paper Inn]
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[Team littlesheep]
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
of course i don't like dizzy spell anyway.
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Dizzy Spell is a way to get your Gigadrowse so you can go off in peace against control decks.
Storming Champs
I decided to take Dragonstorm to WV Champs, not because it's the best deck, but because I though it would be fun. And yes it was the most fun deck I've ever played.
Here is the deck list I ran
4 Steam Vents
4 Shivan Reef
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Mountain
6 Island
(11) Creatures
4 Drift Of Phantasms
4 Bogardan Hellkite
2 Hunted Dragon
1 Grozoth
4 Dragonstorm
4 Seething Song
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Rite Of Flame
4 Sleight Of Hand
4 Remand
4 Telling Time
4 Wipe Away
4 Gigadrowse
3 Pyroclasm
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Shadow Of Doubt
Round 1 - Jeff Ledsome playing Black/Red
Game 1 - He proceeds to beat and burn me to death with Dark Confidant and Chars, I never get anywhere near going off.
Game 2 - He starts off good, then I begin casting Bogardan Hellkites. He gets me down to 5 life while he's at 8 life. I swing with Bogardan Hellkite and then cast another to finish the game.
Game 3 - He burns me down to 8 with Dark Confidant, Rakdos Guildmage and burn. I then proceed to combo out on him for the win.
Match Analysis - This was pretty much a race to the finish on who can burn who faster.
Record 1-0-0
Round 2 - Zachary Cavis playing Solar Pox
Game 1 - I proceed to combo out on him on turn 4, while he is tapped out and unable to do anything about it.
Game 2 - He gets Court Hussar and begins beating me with it. He eventually draws an additional Court hussar, next turn I play a Bogardan Hellkite and he Trickbinds the comes into play ability of Bogardan Hellkite. On his turn he plays Circle of Protection: Red, so if I don't do something he's going to beat me to death with 2 Court Hussars. My turn a cast Dragonstorm for 2 and kill his Court Hussars. He then plays Faith's Fetters on one of the Bogardan Hellkites. Zachary eventually casts Wrath of God. The turn after that I cast Grozoth only to have Mortify played on it. After about 40 miniutes of this he casts Akroma, Angel of Wrath and all I can do is stall him until he beats me to death.
Game 3 - I try all I can to stall him because I don't have the combo yet, and there was only a couple miniutes left in the round. He plays Angel of Despair and falls short 2 turns from killing me with it. We ran out of time, the game ended in a draw.
Match Analysis - This should have been a fairly easy matchup, but due to my lack of sideboarding skills, I dropped the ball here.
Record - 1-0-1
Round 3 - Maxx Turner playing Enduring Renewal Combo
Game 1 - He plays a Soul Warden on his turn 1, then on his second turn tries to play Wild Cantor. me knowing he needs the Wild Cantor in play for the combo to work Remands it. So he plays another Soul Warden and attacks with a Soul Warden. Next turn he attacks with 2 Soul Wardenon my turn I go off with Dragonstorm for 5, winning the game.
Game 2 - This game was a little fuzzy because it happened so quickly, but he plays an Ivory Mask the turn before I go off. I go off with Dragonstorm for 6, getting all of my dragons. Stacking their comes into play abilities I bring the 2 Hunted Dragons into play first, then a Bogardan Hellkite targets a Hunted Dragon, and another Bogardan Hellkite targets the other Hunted Dragon, the next Bogardan Hellkite comes into play dealing 4 damage to the first Bogardan Hellkite and 1 damage to me, and the same with the next one. I swing for 12 on that turn and pass the turn. Next turn I swing with all to win the game.
Match Analysis - I really don't know what to say about this matchup, it was the 2nd easiest one all day. I am however, glad he didn't have Wrath of God in hand the 2nd game. I risked the game and won it.
Record - 2-0-1
Round 4 - Bob Levdansky playing B/R/W Firemane Angel control with lots of discard
Game 1 - This was simply an aweful matchup for Dragonstorm, lots of Castigates and the turn before I was to go off a Persecute naming red for my entire hand. He eventually kills me with a Firemane Angel.
Game 2 - I mulligan to 5 and promptly get eaten alive by Castigate and Persecute. Firemane Angel is back for the win.
Match Analysis - There was nothing I could have done to make this matchup any better. This deck was the worst matchup all day. And I don't think I coulde have won 1 out of 10 games against this deck.
Record - 2-1-1
Round 5 - James Frye playing Solar Pox
Game 1 - I play a land and suspend Lotus Bloom, his turn he plays a land and passes the turn. I play a land and pass the turn. he plays a land and tries to play a Dimir Signet, I Remand it. My turn land, go. His turn land, Dimir Signet, I Remand it again. My turn land, go. His turn land, Compulsive Research. My turn I Dragonstorm for 4, winnign the game.
Game 2 - Nothing happened this game until his turn 5, but on his turn 5, I cast Gigadrowse tapping him out. And then on my turn I go off with Dragonstorm for the win. We ended up talking for about 10 more miniutes after this game before the match slips finally arrive.
Match Analysis - This was the easiest match I played all day. He pretty much did nothing and I went off.
Record - 3-1-1
Round 6 - Matt Oldaker playing U/G Aggro
Game 1 - I mulligan to 5 abd then proceed to be ran over by Vinelasher Kudzu and a Call of the Herd token.
Game 2 - He startes off pretty good beating me down, then I start casting Bogardan Hellkites for the win.
Game 3 - He mulligans to 5 and I proceed to draw a great hand. He plays Llanowar Elves turn 1, and then a Call of the Herd token turn 2, on turn 3 he plays Vinelasher Kudzu, and a Birds of Paradise. On my turn I double Pyroclasm. his tun he taps out to flashback Call of the Herd. On my turn I cast [/CARD]Dragonstorm[/CARD] for 4. Game.
Match Analysis - The first 2 games were pretty rough. But game 3 was a breeze. Pyroclasm has my thanks.
Record - 4-1-1
Round 7 - Ben Angel playing R/W/U Firemane Angel Control
Game 1 - He taps out for Compulsive Research and I go off for 5 on him 4th turn with Dragonstorm.
Game 2 - He plays a Circle of Protection: Red early on. I draw the Gigadrowse that I need to shut him down for a turn and use it to tap him out at the end of his turn. My turn I unsuspend Lotus Bloom and cast Seething Song and Rite of Flame only to realize I don't have a Dragonstorm in my hand. Now I feel like a total idiot, so I cast the Bogardan Hellkite that was in my hand. Now I no longer have the resources to beat him in my hand and he proceeds to beat me to a pulp with double Firemane Angel after he Faith's Fetters my Bogardan Hellkite.
Game 3 - Yet again he plays Circle of Protection:Red. Next he plays a Firemane Angel. I end up having to Dragonstorm for 3 to kill his Firemane Angel and deal 12 damage to him. He proceeds to recur his Firemane Angel, plays Zur's Weirding and a few turns later locks me out of the game with the second Firemane Angel. Game.
Match Analysis - I went into this game overconfidant and overexcited, knowing this was for the top 8. My play skill turned to mush after game 1. And game 2 was easily the stupidest thing i've ever done in a game of Magic, he should have thanked me for giving him the game on a silver platter.
Record - 4-2-1
My Thoughts on the Sideboard
Wipe Away - This was very useful and would have been more useful if I had sideboarded it in more.
Gigadrowse - This was also a great and very useful card, but was not needed as much as everyone had told me it would be. The aggressive decks I played against this would not have affected aside from the U/G Aggro matchup. It's only useful about half the time, so definately not a maindeck 4 of auto include.
Pyroclasm - In the game I sided these in they won it for me. Definately a must have in the sideboard.
Tormod's Crypt - I sided these in once or twice and they didn't do me that much good. Definately stays in though, as there are a lot of decks dependant on their graveyards now.
Shadow of Doubt - I definately like these over Trickbind. You can let the Dragonstorm player go off then simply deny him his dragons, making him waste several cards in the process while drawing one yourself. While I didn't have the opportunity to test these out, I did get to see them in action against me and my friend quite a bit, and they are very effective.
Overview - Dragonstorm can definately beat just about everything as the game I drew was due to my playing mistakes, and one of the match losses was due to me playing very stupidly. The only loss I can't claim as my fault was to the R/W/B discard deck which decimated me.
Final Ranking 18th place.
Starting Rating - 1667
Ending Rating - 1693
Answers to Questions You'll Ask
Q. Why no Tron?
A. I didn't play Tron in this because it only slows it down. If I want to hard cast dragons I'll use one of the 9 extra mana sources in the deck.
Q. Why no Infernal Tutor?
A. While yes, on paper it looks amazing, in actual playtesting it did poorly for me, Drift of Phantasms took its place.
Q. Why no storage lands?
A. I didn't see that much benefit verses clogging my mana base with less useful lands. In the end it turns out I never needed them.
10 Mountain
4 Bogardan Hellkite
2 Hunted Dragon
2 Grozoth
4 Rite of Flame
4 Seething Song
4 Lotus Bloom
3 Izzet Signet
4 Remand
4 Sleight of Hand
3 Telling Time
I have bounce + gigadrowse in side. Also Teferi is in SB.
I love Dragonstorm and I'm willing to play it in FNM for a long time.
i tend to think often that spell snare is a good board selection. gets rid of those cop reds, watchwolves, etc. anyone concur?
I don't think running a whopping 4 Gemstone Mine is exactly the answer to a solid manabase. Running that many is going to hurt you more than the storage lands allegedly could have.
Oh, and congratulations on a good performance.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
Totally.
This seems a lot more stable to me than both of the manabases posted above. A lone Gemstone Mine gives you a slight potential advantage, but doesn't really hinder you at all. Though, perhaps cutting an Island for a second Mine would be more beneficial.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
I've never really had any problems with the Gemstone Mines running out of counters. When it's the long game they're gonna drop more lands than me anyways. So I just use the other lands for mana. Remember this is supposed to go off between turn 4 and 7 at the latest. You shouldn't have to worry about something like that.
With the power of control decks now, ignoring any potential (and likely) late-game is suicidal.
Trying to win on turn 4-7 against any deck running any sort of decent counter right now isn't really that effective of a strategy. You have to consider the possibility of a late-game.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
4 Steam Vents
4 Shivan Reef
4 Mountain
7 Island
2 Dreadship Reef
It gives you a lot of blue producing lands, worked very well in testing and at states.
I'm curious as to how many people play signets, though.
Sig and Avvy by Mr. Stuff
Looking for people to test T2 with me on MWS, Pacific or Mountain time preffered
Here's my list as tweaked by Lesurgo and played by his friend:
Dragonstorm, as played by Brian Eaton to a first/second place split at Champs
Lands:
2 Calciform Pools
4 Steam Vents
4 Shivan Reef
2 Gemstone Mine
9 Island
Creatures:
4 Bogardan Dragon
2 Hunted Dragon
1 Grozoth
Other cards:
4 Dragonstorm
4 Seething Song
4 Rite of Flame
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Gigadrowse
4 Remand
4 Telling Time
4 Sleight of Hand
Sideboard:
4 Mana Leak
4 Shadow of Doubt
4 Ignorant Bliss
3 Dizzy Spell
The only problem I see here is he cut a land, which isn't a great idea, as most of my losses with the deck were due to mana screw. Ignorant Bliss is better than the Defense Grids I had in the board now, as discard is far more prevalent and more of a problem.
The Mine does not suffer from this pitfall.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
The storage lands are good with Gigadrowse. You see, against the control decks, you can't match them in land drops. They will outmana you so you can't Gigadrowse them out. Enter the storage lands. The storage lands let you make pseudo-land drops against control decks so that you can Gigadrowse their board. Against any non-black control deck you don't just foolishly race for the kill, you bide your time until you can 'drowse their board and go off.
That is true.
I'll give the storage lands a bit more testing time then.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
no, bc they take up spots that can have better uses.
@btape: i am suggesting that some things are better against troublesome matchups than others.
Trickbind can't be cycled, but it has SPLIT SECOND and is much more versatile. If you say it's for the mirror match, you can trickbind their gigadrowse and remand their Dragonstorm. Or in another condition trickbind your Hunted Dragon. It's just more versatile.
It's a cycling card x a more versatile and with split second.
IMO trickbind deserves the spot in sb.