Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism -how passionately I hate them!
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RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
Any one playing Assault//Battery? I am trying it out along side call of the heard and it seems solid. Burn of token maker, which ever I need right now.
I don't really like the list that was posted for thsi thread though I think gruul is really going to be a good contender. One thing that the deck really needs though is protection against the heavy control decks besides playing around wrath of god. I am not sure what tech there is for SB but there definately needs to be something with That girl, Firemane, Solar Flare, Solar Pox, Mono White Control, and many more decks that run wrath. I think we need to either speed the deck up or make it more resilient post board or with a little md. tech.
What about Golgari Brownscale? That and a Call of the Herd can blunt a Wrath a little bit...any other Dredgers in Green that might work?
ADD: Also (a few regenerators, dredgers or graveyard tricksters): Ancient Silverback (might be too slow at 6cc), Golgari Grave-Troll (go ahead- wrath away those 5/6 critters!), Hunted Troll (just need a way to get past those fairies...Skarrg or something, perhaps) and Sporeback Troll
EDIT (after the ADD :p): Actually, the Hunted Troll gets himself past the fairies if the try to gang up and toast him by his own regen (duh).
Jenkins, why on earth are you playing Thick-Skinned Goblin? You've got no echo cards (even sideboarded). Seems to me like Dryad Sophisticate would be strictly better. Also, I would consider trying to make room for two copies of Burning Tree Shaman, because at the moment your only 3 mana beater is an Elephant token. By the way, how are those Rumbling Slums working? With only 20 lands I'd be worried that having 4 of them is a bit too much.
Wmag: I've been using Giant Solifuge to swing for 4 after a wrath (because they probably don't have enough mana for the counter). As an added bonus he's immune to Condemn and all other targeted removal.
That plus Cyroclasm plus Blood Moon tends to work against most of the decks that aren't Snow-White (who pretty much can't be beat by Gruul, ever).
I was told today that this kid on my team called 911 twice this morning and hung up both times. They called back and his dad answered. The reason the kid called 911? He got an erection and didn't know what to do. I wish I was making this up.
Jenkins, why on earth are you playing Thick-Skinned Goblin? You've got no echo cards (even sideboarded). Seems to me like Dryad Sophisticate would be strictly better. Also, I would consider trying to make room for two copies of Burning Tree Shaman, because at the moment your only 3 mana beater is an Elephant token. By the way, how are those Rumbling Slums working? With only 20 lands I'd be worried that having 4 of them is a bit too much.
Wmag: I've been using Giant Solifuge to swing for 4 after a wrath (because they probably don't have enough mana for the counter). As an added bonus he's immune to Condemn and all other targeted removal.
That plus Cyroclasm plus Blood Moon tends to work against most of the decks that aren't Snow-White (who pretty much can't be beat by Gruul, ever).
Solifuge is what should be main, run slum side and board them in after you know they aren't running any sweepers or heavy creature control. Also if your haveing trouble with snow white run crypt or cane side, it should stop their reanimation shinanigans.
I do run solifuge maindeck and have for a while but I still feel that if they drop wrath with a counter I am screwed beyond belief. My current list:
4 stomping ground
4 karpusalan forest
6 forest
7 mountain
4 magus of the scroll
4 kird ape
4 llanowar elves
4 scab clan mauler
4 dryad sophisticate
4 burning tree shaman
4 giant solifuge
4 char
3 moldervine cloak
4 rift bolt
WmagCall of the Herd, which is useful against control because it generates two threats, thus forcing them to use two removal or counterspells. (Granted it's not so hot against Repeal, but still). Obviously you're not going to win on card advantage, but it does give you an extra little edge. I'd drop 1 magus, 1 fuge, 1 char and 1 shaman in favor of 4 calls.
Juggles: I am using 'fuge maindeck. That said, if you live in a format full of critters and light on Wrath, playing Rumbling Slum gives you a 5/5 body that's probably the biggest thing on the table. If you're really lucky you can even Cloak him and then hit him with a Skarrg, making him a 9/9 trampler :p.
Also, Crypt is highly effective against Snow White. I'm just not convinced that S.W. is common enough to justify SBing Crypt. Crypt has one key weakness, it can't damage my opponent's life total. I'd never bring it in against Solar Pox (for example) even though that deck is heavily graveyard dependant, because more often than not I'd prefer drawing a beater. If I'm using a card that doesn't hurt my opponent's life total, I want it to *really* badly mess up thier entire deck, not just a card advantage engine (as in, I'm using blood moon).
That said, if S.W. becomes a top tier deck, then crypt will become mandatory.
I was told today that this kid on my team called 911 twice this morning and hung up both times. They called back and his dad answered. The reason the kid called 911? He got an erection and didn't know what to do. I wish I was making this up.
Jenkins, why on earth are you playing Thick-Skinned Goblin? You've got no echo cards (even sideboarded). Seems to me like Dryad Sophisticate would be strictly better. Also, I would consider trying to make room for two copies of Burning Tree Shaman, because at the moment your only 3 mana beater is an Elephant token. By the way, how are those Rumbling Slums working? With only 20 lands I'd be worried that having 4 of them is a bit too much.
My deck has been around since Guildpact at the very least. I have entered two 30+ man tournaments and placed 2nd and 7th/8th respectively. The deck works decently well.
Thick-Skinned Goblin = Pro-red. That's all
Only the four three drop creatures are really needed for the deck since you really don't want to have a hand full of 3-4 cost creatures.
And the slums work out well. I'm amazed more people don't play slum since it is so good vs other beatdown, and allows you to stop playing creatures in many circumstances vs control. There's no real need to over-extend when a single creature is doing 6 damage per turn.
As for your worry over snow-white, just throw in a few copies of fortune thief into your sideboard (this helps vs glare as well).
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
Against Glare the Thieves are cool provided they're not splashing red for Demonfire or Thornscape Battlemage nor running Serrated Arrows in the SB..
Against Snow White I think the main problem is their recursive lifegain more than anything else, for this I'd put either Tormod's Crypt or Moratorium Stone in the SB to fight their Proclamation engine.
Those decks often run 4-6 Wrath effects (Wrath of God and Sunscour) so I doubt the Thief would stick too long plus, more often than not, they just tend to skip turns with Cronosavant to mill the opponent..
Being faster than them and removing the Martyrs from their GY is the only solution for an aggro deck to beat Snow White since a resolved Martyr means at least 9 more life points for them, making your job already a lot harder..
I think Loaming Shaman helps vs Snow-White more than Crypt or Stone do because they can remove cards from your opponents graveyard or you can essentially Feldon's Cane yourself.
Edit: It seems that Biorhythm would be good against Snow-White as well.
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
Looking at this list compared to the KarstenBot, they are almost identical, although the KBBK has the card-drawing and extra accel. Why are we beating the dead horse on this one? What advantages does this deck have over KBBK?
For Reference:
System X if you will notice though this is not the list that any of us who have posted are actually playing and for good reason. My list is currently fast as hell with 12 burn spells and 24 creatures while karsten bot is aggro control and features LD. I think that if you were comparing gruul and baby killer the pros for gruul is being able to beat decks with speed, more burn, and less lands that tap for colorless. Baby killer however has more resilience ( to a degree) a control element (LD), and some fatties.
Just came back from t8-split at a 25 man tournament. My record going into top 8 was 4-1. I couldn't draw in because I got paired down and my opponent needed a win. After some figuring though we decided I could have conceded to him and we both would have made top 8 anyway, but that was too late since we'd already reported my win. Anyway, that aside, here's what I learned from the experience:
Tin Street Hooligans are still fantastic! Two drops imo should be scab-clan mauler and tin street hooligan. Signets are EVERYWHERE now, and buying that one extra turn of beats by getting rid of that one signet that would power a wrath is just priceless. Now if they were relying on that signet to hussar into a 3rd land, that's even better for you. If the loss of a signet stalls them at 2 mana even for a turn, odds are with this deck you will win. Also handy against sunforger and lotus blooms (if the dragonstorm player stalls for a turn).
About 5 minutes before the tournament I changed out my might of old krosa's for volcanic hammer. My reasoning for might in the first place was to help me lower my average mana cost, and my reasoning for hammer was because I knew wrath was everywhere. Might does me no good a turn after they wiped the board. I changed the deck's gameplan vs control by upping the burn in place of combat buffs. Before, I'd try to rebuild after a wrath, but with 12 burn you can just finish the job with the 3-4 burn spells you might be holding. The only problem I found with this strategy was that Persecute is always named "red" vs gruul. i lost a game when my opponent was at 3 this way...
Magus of the Scroll ruins aggro decks that don't have mountains (read as: U/G). These guys controlled the board for me vs the U/G deck I faced long enough for me to swing to victory with my elephants.
I think I'm going to drop the 4 mana dudes in favor of more 3 mana dudes. A suite of flashback elephants and burning-tree shamen seem like they'll do some good. I liked slums when everybody played aggro, but now that aggro has more or less cycled out, cheaper creatures are in order. I still don't want solifuge MD for my deck. I greatly dislike them for their fragile nature, especially with court hussar in every deck.
Ok, on to some very brief match reports:
first was solar flare. Game one I was half asleep or something and forgot that signet = 1 additional mana. I over extended too early because I'm a n00b and he wrathed. Game two i sided in 3 blood moon, 3 krosan grip and 3 loaming shamen and took out 3 slum, 4 magus, 1 burning tree and 1 hammer (i think). turn one kird ape, turn two mauler and turn three blood moon followed up by a turn 4 krosan grip to answer his CoP red wins the game. Game three went similar to game two but I don't remember a CoP red and hooligans helped kill his signets. 1-0
2nd match: solar flare again... Game one I smash and burn him down to three, but he wraths and persecutes my hand as I'm one mana short of casting a second burn spell before I pass my turn to him. Game two I side in the same stuff as my previous match and mulligan down to 5 only to keep an aweful hand (my first non-land play is on turn three). He absolutely destroys me that game. 1-1
3rd match: U/G aggro. Game one my dudes are bigger than his for less mana, he draws no counters and magus' take care of his board. Game two I draw one land... and still fend him off for a long time, but lose anyway. Game three was just like game one, but a little bit slower. Never lost board control though... just didn't draw as much burn. I think his build was meant to be anti-control as it had enough counters to disrupt control, but I didn't see any removal. I sided in: fortune thief (since I didn't see any removal) and leyline of lifeforce. Took out 3 slums (didn't want to, but couldn't take out anything else), 1 burning tree shaman and 2 hooligans. 2-1
match 4: Dragonstorm Combo. Game one, I had a turn 5 kill waiting for him, but he decided turn 4 was better. Game two I side out the slums for the loaming shamen just to lower my average mana cost. I aggressively mulligan to 5 cards so I can curve out. The mulligan works out and I win the race. Game three he plays a second turn signet and I play a second turn hooligan and casually point at his signet and say, "signet." I have a cold so he didn't hear me and untapped when I said "done" and he took his turn. He used the signet to cast compulsive and he looked at the top three cards. I told him that the signet was dead and he said that was a little late. If that player is reading this, I swear I did say "signet" when the hooligan came into play and that I wasn't trying to cheat. Anyway, I swung away while he gigadrowsed me a couple of times, but he wasn't able to go off when his lotus resolved so a second hooligan smashed that up as well. That was game. 3-1
Match 5: Solar Pox. This game was against a guy I know because he lives in the same town I work in (it's a small town and I work in the comic/card shop there). His record was 2-1-1 so I couldn't draw in since I got paired down. Game one he goes first and we both mulligan down to 6. He plays a signet and a hooligan breaks it. This game started with a turn 1 kird ape, and i'm pretty sure I curved out with some burn back-up. Game two I sided in the usual solar-stuff and it went more like game one but I mulligan to 6 and him to 5. I curved out again and swing with elephant tokens while staring at his CoP red. He didn't draw a wrath either game so that was pretty bad luck for him. 4-1
All of the top 8 agreed to split, so I took my 9 packs and headed home to face the music of a 90 lb girlfriend's wrath for ditching her for cards.
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
I've been testing this deck a lot (especially vs Solar Pox) and after some tinkering I think I found the build I'm happy with. I've explained some of the explanations above, but I'll take the time to explain most all of the cards this time around.
Elves: Many people don't feel these belong in Gruul, and if I were to ever drop them, I'd replace them with 2 more land and 2 Stormbind. I feel they are good for the deck due to a few opportunities they provide. First and foremost is the obvious one mana they provide. A second turn Cryoclasm should slow down the other guy pretty well, and hopefully keep them from hitting their 4th mana for Wrath of God. Sometimes, especially post-board, the U/G aggro-control will drop a turn one U source and pass the turn. In this instance, play the second turn elephant token instead of the mauler since Spell Snare is most likely waiting for you. The reason for Elves being a good choice other than just the green mana is that they help enable a second turn mauler. The deck has 16 turn one plays to help give you a turn two blood-thirsted mauler, and if it plays a first-turn elf, it has 16 turn two plays assuming you have a second land (Mauler, Goblin, Elephant token and Cryoclasm). That assures options during the deck's two most important turns.
Kird Ape: I hope I don't have to explain this guy. When I first got back into M:tG, my co-worker had a Gruul deck and ran no Kird Apes. I hope nobody else has ever considered doing the same...
Magus of the Scroll: He's almost as good as Cursed Scroll (ok, not really, but still pretty good), but does one thing important to this deck that scroll doesn't; he smashes for one on turn two for the blood-thirst. While not that great vs control (unless he's powering up a mauler), he is just plain good against U/G aggro/control and any other weenie deck that isn't running a lot of burn.
Scab-Clan Mauler: See Kird Ape.
Tin-Street Hooligan: I've learned that just because Jitte is gone doesn't mean this guy isn't still fantastic. So many tough decks run 3-5 signets, and slowing down the wrath just one turn is very important. As I mentioned already in a previous post, the possibility of mana screw from this guy exists, and when it happens, you simply win.
Call of the Herd: This really shouldn't take too much explanation, but since it is understandable that someone might want to run BTS instead, I'll explain. BTS is fantastic vs Glare, but that's about it since Jitte isn't around anymore. Forcing your opponent to kill two of your Elephants is just more important than an ability that works in one match-up combined with one toughness. Also, the Elephants are green, not red. That simple fact is more important than I can stress.
Cryoclasm: Wow, this card is amazing! I resisted this card for so long, but after realizing how few decks this doesn't work against, I decided to try it. Now I'm convinced this is a staple in the deck. Combined with Hooligan's, as well as the additional three damage, Gruul can apply enough pressure and occasional land-screw to compete with mana-intensive control decks.
Volcanic Hammer: It's no Incinerate, but it's three damage. Right now, if a burn spell can't do three damage, it's not going into any of my decks. Haakon, Hussar, Kird Ape, Watchwolf, Mauler and Elephant tokens all make this a favorable card vs Shock or Seal.
Rift Bolt: See Volcanic Hammer, but lessen the mana-cost by one.
Char: Psionic Blast for the correct color! This is one of the cards that made me want to return to MtG in the first place. A four damage, instant speed, burn spell with an almost non-existent drawback. Good stuff. Btw, it kills Dumb Elephants.
Sideboard-
Krosan Grip: If you see Plains in game one, side in Krosan Grip. It doesn't matter what you think they are doing, because if they drop a CoP: Red or Peace of Mind and you don't have an answer, you lose. Split Second is good enough to make up for the extra one mana over Naturalize's cost.
Loaming Shaman: This deck's idea of Tormod's Crypt. Many people might run Crypt or Moratorium Stone, but I like the extra 3/2 body for three mana, as well as the ability to Feldon's Cane myself when facing White Life gain decks that win via milling you. Edit: Changed to Barbed Shocker for matches against dragonstorm and Martyr. It helps to get their pieces out of their hands. Not much need for the Shaman anymore since there isn't a lot of graveyard abuse as of right now.
Blood Moon: This card simply wins against any 3 color decks, and even some two color decks. The best possible hand in game two vs a three color deck would be: Elf, 2 land (one of them being red and the other green, or a two color land), Blood Moon and maybe a Hooligan to smash any Signets that might come out. Something I've learned about Blood Moon is to always play as many as you can from your hand. Sometimes your opponent will have a trick to kill one of your Blood Moons, and that's bad news if it frees up all of their other mana to wreck you with.
Rumbling Slum: This slot of the Sideboard is still being tinkered with, but Slum is really good against other burn-based aggro decks. Zoo generally doesn't like to see 5/5's in play on the other side, and that's especially true if they aren't running cloaks (which many aren't anymore). Other ideas for this slot are Giant Growth, Carven Caryatid, Spike Feeder, Wildfire Emissary, 3 Stormbind/1 Loaming Shaman and Thick-Skinned Goblin (for the Prot-red, not the echo ability...). It's important that this slot be good against other aggro since Cryoclasm will be taken out against Gruul and Rakdos. Edit: Now changed to Serrated Arrows.
Like I said, I've played a lot of games vs Solar Pox, but also against U/G aggro-control and Dragonstorm. I've yet to get a good testing session vs Boros with this current build, but I hope that the Cryoclasms help to slow them down a bit. It does well vs Solar Pox w/o Peace of Mind as well as U/G. The Pox deck I play against doesn't run Peace of Mind, but might try the match-up with two of them main to see how Gruul fares. Dragonstorm doesn't have a very good match-up against this deck because the two simply race to the finish, and this deck is so consistantly quick and even has a little bit of mana deprivation to back it up.
And for the record, I hate calling this deck "Gruul" since the archtype has existed about as long as the game of MtG has.
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
A few quick questions even though it seems like nobody has posted on this thread for sometime:
I love this deck and when I first got back into magic right after coldsnap and played type 2 for the very first time I played this deck. I just traded for 2 Russian 9th ed Kird Apes and 1 FNM Kird Ape and I am all revved up to play this deck again.
Question 1: Don't you think cyroclasm should be sideboard? What would you replace it with? Are there any damage modifiers like giant growth or moldervine cloak that might be helpful?
Question 2: I don't have magus of the scroll and probably won't trade for them. I have some giant sollifuges...would they be a decent replacement?
Thanks for any help anyone can give me! I want to put those kirds to good use :)!
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"When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities."
- David Hume
"Arrogance and rudeness are training wheels on the bicycle of life -- for weak people who cannot keep their balance without them."
- Laura Teresa Marquez
Cryoclasm is a pretty good sb card, and is good for decks ranging from boros to control. Looking at most pro sbs you'll see that if they play red, they're probably siding cryoclasm (it's a stone rain with a free volcanic hammer attached towards the right matchup).
Magus of the scroll isn't a must - he's mostly there for when you're topdecking and you need to somehow push damage through. Imo if you can't get a hold of him try seal of fire or any random cheap burn to replace him.
Magus' aren't required, especially since they only really shine vs certain matchups. If I were to drop them, I'd probably replace them with Seal of Fire.
Cryoclasm isn't a sideboard card in the current format imo. If you think about what it doesn't work against it will make a lot more sense. Cryoclasm doesn't work against: mirror match, Rakdos and any mono-colored R, G or B deck. How many gruul, rakdos or single colored decks do you see around lately? And of those, how many are successful?
My build is very specific for the net-deck meta because where I play, the people love playing with top 8 builds. If you play in Carmichael then you might know what I mean. If you aren't familiar with the shop in Carmichael, it's on the wizards website if you look for sanctioned tournaments in the Sacramento area. (I don't have any association with the Carmichael shop, I just noticed that Bean is from Sacramento, CA and that's where I play.)
PS, I just noticed that you wanted to try the solifuges in place of magus'. That just depends on what you are more comfortable with playing against. Solifuge is good against control and at the same time, probably the worst four mana you could spend against aggro. Seal is great against aggro, but almost a wasted draw against control. It's all up to how you want to play the deck.
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
EERIE!!! I didn't realize you were from Davis! Yes, I DO play at Adventures in Comics an Games in Carmichael. I have been going there for 15+ years and just got back into Magic a few months before Timespiral. I was one of the lamers playing Tron, Flare and/or UG aggro. I am getting bored and I wanted to go back to what I first was playing in T2 a few months ago...gruul. I haven't been playing in FNM or Sat tourneys since that Gold Tier a few months ago (I got 8th in that one). I mainly show up on Arena League night for trade and casual. I am planning to play some of the weekend tourneys during the Holiday break. Thanks for your help! I will probably be posting on this thread again once i get some playtesting done.
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"When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities."
- David Hume
"Arrogance and rudeness are training wheels on the bicycle of life -- for weak people who cannot keep their balance without them."
- Laura Teresa Marquez
Awesome! Glad to get some activity on this thread. I haven't been to a tournament in about a month or so, and have actually only gone twice, but I plan on making a saturday tournament once a month or so.
I'd like to have a bit of discussion of what the sideboard should look like. Blood Moon x4 and Krosan Grip x4 seem to be required, but what about Serrated Arrows? I think they are probably the best anti-aggro answer the deck has right now (other than Slum), but I have considered testing Greater Gargadon and Stormbind. I think with Boros being so popular though, Arrows are the way to go. My biggest dilemma at the moment is deciding between Loaming Shaman for some graveyard hate, or Barbed Shocker against combo and Martyr. The shocker doesn't gaurantee anything, but it does mess with their gameplan, and get pieces out of their hand. It seems as if it would be more effective vs dragonstorm than martyr though. The only other thing I can see is maybe Sudden Shock for Martyr, since that is such a nasty match-up for this deck... On second thought, the shocker might allow the deck to win via decking Martyr, but only rarely. I'm currently collecting Proclomation's so I can build Martyr for testing, but only finished building the other decks I was working on today, so it might be as long as a week before I can get any testing vs Martyr.
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RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
I have to agree with the Krosan grips and Blood moon. Barbed shocker is too situational for my tastes. I don't like the thought of replinishing an opponents hand. They could have a hand of virtually dead cards and replacing them may be bad. I like the idea of running loaming shaman to mess with graveyard (but is tormods crypt better?). Also, why is stonewood invocation not in main? Is there a specific reason? I like the idea of running serated arrows, but I don't know if they will be quick enough. Is there a reason gruul historically doesn't run birds of paradise? I know the rational has been largely due to llanowar's ability to attack but with stonewood even a bird can go in for a killing blow.
Originally I play 4 rumbling slum MD and 4 Burning Tree Shaman MD. Is there a reason they no longer are run MD. Too high of a casting cost? Another thought I had is SB some giant sollifuges for control matchups.
I have all the pieces to build this except the Magus of the Scroll and should get some testing in this Thursday in Carmichel.
"When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities."
- David Hume
"Arrogance and rudeness are training wheels on the bicycle of life -- for weak people who cannot keep their balance without them."
- Laura Teresa Marquez
The reason for dropping slum is that aggro isn't very prevailant with the exception of boros. Slum's huge body is great against aggro since they generally have to use two burn spells or a dude and a burn spell to deal with it. Now, control just taps one white source and gives us five life to handle him. BTS isn't in my build only because I don't have the space for him. Having green elephants is more important, so having to choose one or the other, I went for the guy who doesn't get hosed by CoP: Red and Soltari Priest + en-Kor.
Birds aren't used for the simple fact that they can't enable a turn two Bloodthirsted Mauler.
Stonewood Invocation seems to be Aggro's Demonfire, an uncounterable finishing blow. That is good of course, but I haven't found any cards I'd like to drop from my build, and getting to 4 mana in a deck that likes to win by turn four or five is difficult. It might be worth testing in the magus' slot though. If you have other ideas for that slot, maybe try it in the Cryoclasm slot, but I highly endorse the Cryoclasm's in main deck. I suggest atleast testing the cryoclasm before replacing it with Invocation.
Serrated Arrows are there mainly to counter Boros' ability to drop guys on the field that are immune to our removal, and can't be blocked. While our guys tend to be bigger, they tend to have more tricks, and I fear they would win the race between Priest, Outrider, KotHN and forcing us to deal with CoP: Red. The other thing Arrows do is allow us to kill three aggro dudes (or atleast neuter 2-3 of them) so we can use our burn to finish off the opponent instead of worrying about doing three damage to that Savannah Lions.
Loaming Shaman vs Tormod's Crypt is a difficult choice for me, but I've sided with the Shaman just because he's a beater as well. That's only a personal choice though, and I have no testing results that claim it's the superior card for this deck.
I would love to fit Solifuge in the sideboard of this deck, but I just don't see the room. I've traded for four copies of the beast, but they've never seen play under my ownership. I'd like to change that, but I don't see the space.
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RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
I am going to try out invocation in my build and I am probably not going to run any magus of the scroll. I am also going to try and fit solifuge in my SB. Here is another possible SB option:
Avoid Fate
Of course it is very situational. I am going to run 4 in the board. There have been plenty of times I could use it. I am probably going to run 3 Krosan/4 Solifuge/4 Avoid Fate/4 Blood Moon in my SB. I am sure I will alter it at some point but I think that is a good start. Also, what do you thing about Browbeat MD? Could get you in range for a killing blow...could draw some good card advantage...
I also plan on running demonfire in my MD. At least 1 but maybe 2. The deck won't be complete for a few weeks because I am waiting for 4 COTHs to arrive via EBAY and I won't be able to transfer funds until the weekend.
"When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities."
- David Hume
"Arrogance and rudeness are training wheels on the bicycle of life -- for weak people who cannot keep their balance without them."
- Laura Teresa Marquez
So why isn't this deck up on "Decks to Beat" or W/e since it just so happened to Top 8 At worlds? It has to be at least good enough to get up there, regardless of who played it.
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This sample was played to third place in North Carolina States 06 by John Winters
8 Forest
5 Mountain
4 Karplusan Forest
4 Stomping Ground
Creatures
4 Avalanche Riders
4 Birds Of Paradise
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Rumbling Slum
4 Ohran Viper
3 Stormbind
4 Char
4 Call Of The Herd
4 Cryoclasm
4 Stone Rain
4 Giant Solifuge
2 Moldervine Cloak
2 Krosan Grip
3 Lightning Axe
[thread=41221][my extendo sig][/thread] [thread=56664][moderator helpdesk][/thread] [Pen and Paper Inn]
Just add me on msn if you have any questions or just want to talk
Here's my Gruul list:
4 Kird Ape
4 Magus of the Scroll
4 Scab-Clan Mauler
4 Tin Street Hooligan
4 Call of the Herd
4 Cryoclasm
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Rift Bolt
4 Char
1 Skarrg, the Rage Pits
4 Karplusan Forest
4 Stomping Ground
6 Forest
5 Mountain
4 Krosan Grip
3 Demonfire
4 Blood Moon
4 Serrated Arrows
Edit: Updated Decklist...
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
ADD: Also (a few regenerators, dredgers or graveyard tricksters): Ancient Silverback (might be too slow at 6cc), Golgari Grave-Troll (go ahead- wrath away those 5/6 critters!), Hunted Troll (just need a way to get past those fairies...Skarrg or something, perhaps) and Sporeback Troll
EDIT (after the ADD :p): Actually, the Hunted Troll gets himself past the fairies if the try to gang up and toast him by his own regen (duh).
Magic scoresheet for download
Turn reference chart for download
Wmag: I've been using Giant Solifuge to swing for 4 after a wrath (because they probably don't have enough mana for the counter). As an added bonus he's immune to Condemn and all other targeted removal.
That plus Cyroclasm plus Blood Moon tends to work against most of the decks that aren't Snow-White (who pretty much can't be beat by Gruul, ever).
Mafia Stats
Solifuge is what should be main, run slum side and board them in after you know they aren't running any sweepers or heavy creature control. Also if your haveing trouble with snow white run crypt or cane side, it should stop their reanimation shinanigans.
4 stomping ground
4 karpusalan forest
6 forest
7 mountain
4 magus of the scroll
4 kird ape
4 llanowar elves
4 scab clan mauler
4 dryad sophisticate
4 burning tree shaman
4 giant solifuge
4 char
3 moldervine cloak
4 rift bolt
SB:
4 blood moon
3 tormod's crypt
3 krosan grip
3 hunted wumpus
2 sudden shock
Juggles: I am using 'fuge maindeck. That said, if you live in a format full of critters and light on Wrath, playing Rumbling Slum gives you a 5/5 body that's probably the biggest thing on the table. If you're really lucky you can even Cloak him and then hit him with a Skarrg, making him a 9/9 trampler :p.
Also, Crypt is highly effective against Snow White. I'm just not convinced that S.W. is common enough to justify SBing Crypt. Crypt has one key weakness, it can't damage my opponent's life total. I'd never bring it in against Solar Pox (for example) even though that deck is heavily graveyard dependant, because more often than not I'd prefer drawing a beater. If I'm using a card that doesn't hurt my opponent's life total, I want it to *really* badly mess up thier entire deck, not just a card advantage engine (as in, I'm using blood moon).
That said, if S.W. becomes a top tier deck, then crypt will become mandatory.
Mafia Stats
My deck has been around since Guildpact at the very least. I have entered two 30+ man tournaments and placed 2nd and 7th/8th respectively. The deck works decently well.
Thick-Skinned Goblin = Pro-red. That's all
Only the four three drop creatures are really needed for the deck since you really don't want to have a hand full of 3-4 cost creatures.
And the slums work out well. I'm amazed more people don't play slum since it is so good vs other beatdown, and allows you to stop playing creatures in many circumstances vs control. There's no real need to over-extend when a single creature is doing 6 damage per turn.
As for your worry over snow-white, just throw in a few copies of fortune thief into your sideboard (this helps vs glare as well).
Also, my above decklist has been updated.
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
I think Loaming Shaman helps vs Snow-White more than Crypt or Stone do because they can remove cards from your opponents graveyard or you can essentially Feldon's Cane yourself.
Edit: It seems that Biorhythm would be good against Snow-White as well.
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
For Reference:
Tin Street Hooligans are still fantastic! Two drops imo should be scab-clan mauler and tin street hooligan. Signets are EVERYWHERE now, and buying that one extra turn of beats by getting rid of that one signet that would power a wrath is just priceless. Now if they were relying on that signet to hussar into a 3rd land, that's even better for you. If the loss of a signet stalls them at 2 mana even for a turn, odds are with this deck you will win. Also handy against sunforger and lotus blooms (if the dragonstorm player stalls for a turn).
About 5 minutes before the tournament I changed out my might of old krosa's for volcanic hammer. My reasoning for might in the first place was to help me lower my average mana cost, and my reasoning for hammer was because I knew wrath was everywhere. Might does me no good a turn after they wiped the board. I changed the deck's gameplan vs control by upping the burn in place of combat buffs. Before, I'd try to rebuild after a wrath, but with 12 burn you can just finish the job with the 3-4 burn spells you might be holding. The only problem I found with this strategy was that Persecute is always named "red" vs gruul. i lost a game when my opponent was at 3 this way...
Magus of the Scroll ruins aggro decks that don't have mountains (read as: U/G). These guys controlled the board for me vs the U/G deck I faced long enough for me to swing to victory with my elephants.
I think I'm going to drop the 4 mana dudes in favor of more 3 mana dudes. A suite of flashback elephants and burning-tree shamen seem like they'll do some good. I liked slums when everybody played aggro, but now that aggro has more or less cycled out, cheaper creatures are in order. I still don't want solifuge MD for my deck. I greatly dislike them for their fragile nature, especially with court hussar in every deck.
Ok, on to some very brief match reports:
first was solar flare. Game one I was half asleep or something and forgot that signet = 1 additional mana. I over extended too early because I'm a n00b and he wrathed. Game two i sided in 3 blood moon, 3 krosan grip and 3 loaming shamen and took out 3 slum, 4 magus, 1 burning tree and 1 hammer (i think). turn one kird ape, turn two mauler and turn three blood moon followed up by a turn 4 krosan grip to answer his CoP red wins the game. Game three went similar to game two but I don't remember a CoP red and hooligans helped kill his signets. 1-0
2nd match: solar flare again... Game one I smash and burn him down to three, but he wraths and persecutes my hand as I'm one mana short of casting a second burn spell before I pass my turn to him. Game two I side in the same stuff as my previous match and mulligan down to 5 only to keep an aweful hand (my first non-land play is on turn three). He absolutely destroys me that game. 1-1
3rd match: U/G aggro. Game one my dudes are bigger than his for less mana, he draws no counters and magus' take care of his board. Game two I draw one land... and still fend him off for a long time, but lose anyway. Game three was just like game one, but a little bit slower. Never lost board control though... just didn't draw as much burn. I think his build was meant to be anti-control as it had enough counters to disrupt control, but I didn't see any removal. I sided in: fortune thief (since I didn't see any removal) and leyline of lifeforce. Took out 3 slums (didn't want to, but couldn't take out anything else), 1 burning tree shaman and 2 hooligans. 2-1
match 4: Dragonstorm Combo. Game one, I had a turn 5 kill waiting for him, but he decided turn 4 was better. Game two I side out the slums for the loaming shamen just to lower my average mana cost. I aggressively mulligan to 5 cards so I can curve out. The mulligan works out and I win the race. Game three he plays a second turn signet and I play a second turn hooligan and casually point at his signet and say, "signet." I have a cold so he didn't hear me and untapped when I said "done" and he took his turn. He used the signet to cast compulsive and he looked at the top three cards. I told him that the signet was dead and he said that was a little late. If that player is reading this, I swear I did say "signet" when the hooligan came into play and that I wasn't trying to cheat. Anyway, I swung away while he gigadrowsed me a couple of times, but he wasn't able to go off when his lotus resolved so a second hooligan smashed that up as well. That was game. 3-1
Match 5: Solar Pox. This game was against a guy I know because he lives in the same town I work in (it's a small town and I work in the comic/card shop there). His record was 2-1-1 so I couldn't draw in since I got paired down. Game one he goes first and we both mulligan down to 6. He plays a signet and a hooligan breaks it. This game started with a turn 1 kird ape, and i'm pretty sure I curved out with some burn back-up. Game two I sided in the usual solar-stuff and it went more like game one but I mulligan to 6 and him to 5. I curved out again and swing with elephant tokens while staring at his CoP red. He didn't draw a wrath either game so that was pretty bad luck for him. 4-1
All of the top 8 agreed to split, so I took my 9 packs and headed home to face the music of a 90 lb girlfriend's wrath for ditching her for cards.
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
Elves: Many people don't feel these belong in Gruul, and if I were to ever drop them, I'd replace them with 2 more land and 2 Stormbind. I feel they are good for the deck due to a few opportunities they provide. First and foremost is the obvious one mana they provide. A second turn Cryoclasm should slow down the other guy pretty well, and hopefully keep them from hitting their 4th mana for Wrath of God. Sometimes, especially post-board, the U/G aggro-control will drop a turn one U source and pass the turn. In this instance, play the second turn elephant token instead of the mauler since Spell Snare is most likely waiting for you. The reason for Elves being a good choice other than just the green mana is that they help enable a second turn mauler. The deck has 16 turn one plays to help give you a turn two blood-thirsted mauler, and if it plays a first-turn elf, it has 16 turn two plays assuming you have a second land (Mauler, Goblin, Elephant token and Cryoclasm). That assures options during the deck's two most important turns.
Kird Ape: I hope I don't have to explain this guy. When I first got back into M:tG, my co-worker had a Gruul deck and ran no Kird Apes. I hope nobody else has ever considered doing the same...
Magus of the Scroll: He's almost as good as Cursed Scroll (ok, not really, but still pretty good), but does one thing important to this deck that scroll doesn't; he smashes for one on turn two for the blood-thirst. While not that great vs control (unless he's powering up a mauler), he is just plain good against U/G aggro/control and any other weenie deck that isn't running a lot of burn.
Scab-Clan Mauler: See Kird Ape.
Tin-Street Hooligan: I've learned that just because Jitte is gone doesn't mean this guy isn't still fantastic. So many tough decks run 3-5 signets, and slowing down the wrath just one turn is very important. As I mentioned already in a previous post, the possibility of mana screw from this guy exists, and when it happens, you simply win.
Call of the Herd: This really shouldn't take too much explanation, but since it is understandable that someone might want to run BTS instead, I'll explain. BTS is fantastic vs Glare, but that's about it since Jitte isn't around anymore. Forcing your opponent to kill two of your Elephants is just more important than an ability that works in one match-up combined with one toughness. Also, the Elephants are green, not red. That simple fact is more important than I can stress.
Cryoclasm: Wow, this card is amazing! I resisted this card for so long, but after realizing how few decks this doesn't work against, I decided to try it. Now I'm convinced this is a staple in the deck. Combined with Hooligan's, as well as the additional three damage, Gruul can apply enough pressure and occasional land-screw to compete with mana-intensive control decks.
Volcanic Hammer: It's no Incinerate, but it's three damage. Right now, if a burn spell can't do three damage, it's not going into any of my decks. Haakon, Hussar, Kird Ape, Watchwolf, Mauler and Elephant tokens all make this a favorable card vs Shock or Seal.
Rift Bolt: See Volcanic Hammer, but lessen the mana-cost by one.
Char: Psionic Blast for the correct color! This is one of the cards that made me want to return to MtG in the first place. A four damage, instant speed, burn spell with an almost non-existent drawback. Good stuff. Btw, it kills Dumb Elephants.
Sideboard-
Krosan Grip: If you see Plains in game one, side in Krosan Grip. It doesn't matter what you think they are doing, because if they drop a CoP: Red or Peace of Mind and you don't have an answer, you lose. Split Second is good enough to make up for the extra one mana over Naturalize's cost.
Loaming Shaman: This deck's idea of Tormod's Crypt. Many people might run Crypt or Moratorium Stone, but I like the extra 3/2 body for three mana, as well as the ability to Feldon's Cane myself when facing White Life gain decks that win via milling you. Edit: Changed to Barbed Shocker for matches against dragonstorm and Martyr. It helps to get their pieces out of their hands. Not much need for the Shaman anymore since there isn't a lot of graveyard abuse as of right now.
Blood Moon: This card simply wins against any 3 color decks, and even some two color decks. The best possible hand in game two vs a three color deck would be: Elf, 2 land (one of them being red and the other green, or a two color land), Blood Moon and maybe a Hooligan to smash any Signets that might come out. Something I've learned about Blood Moon is to always play as many as you can from your hand. Sometimes your opponent will have a trick to kill one of your Blood Moons, and that's bad news if it frees up all of their other mana to wreck you with.
Rumbling Slum: This slot of the Sideboard is still being tinkered with, but Slum is really good against other burn-based aggro decks. Zoo generally doesn't like to see 5/5's in play on the other side, and that's especially true if they aren't running cloaks (which many aren't anymore). Other ideas for this slot are Giant Growth, Carven Caryatid, Spike Feeder, Wildfire Emissary, 3 Stormbind/1 Loaming Shaman and Thick-Skinned Goblin (for the Prot-red, not the echo ability...). It's important that this slot be good against other aggro since Cryoclasm will be taken out against Gruul and Rakdos. Edit: Now changed to Serrated Arrows.
4 Kird Ape
4 Magus of the Scroll
4 Scab-Clan Mauler
4 Tin Street Hooligan
4 Call of the Herd
4 Cryoclasm
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Rift Bolt
4 Char
1 Skarrg, the Rage Pits
4 Karplusan Forest
4 Stomping Ground
6 Forest
5 Mountain
4 Krosan Grip
3 Demonfire
4 Blood Moon
4 Serrated Arrows
Like I said, I've played a lot of games vs Solar Pox, but also against U/G aggro-control and Dragonstorm. I've yet to get a good testing session vs Boros with this current build, but I hope that the Cryoclasms help to slow them down a bit. It does well vs Solar Pox w/o Peace of Mind as well as U/G. The Pox deck I play against doesn't run Peace of Mind, but might try the match-up with two of them main to see how Gruul fares. Dragonstorm doesn't have a very good match-up against this deck because the two simply race to the finish, and this deck is so consistantly quick and even has a little bit of mana deprivation to back it up.
And for the record, I hate calling this deck "Gruul" since the archtype has existed about as long as the game of MtG has.
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
I love this deck and when I first got back into magic right after coldsnap and played type 2 for the very first time I played this deck. I just traded for 2 Russian 9th ed Kird Apes and 1 FNM Kird Ape and I am all revved up to play this deck again.
Question 1: Don't you think cyroclasm should be sideboard? What would you replace it with? Are there any damage modifiers like giant growth or moldervine cloak that might be helpful?
Question 2: I don't have magus of the scroll and probably won't trade for them. I have some giant sollifuges...would they be a decent replacement?
Thanks for any help anyone can give me! I want to put those kirds to good use :)!
"When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities."
- David Hume
"Arrogance and rudeness are training wheels on the bicycle of life -- for weak people who cannot keep their balance without them."
- Laura Teresa Marquez
Magus of the scroll isn't a must - he's mostly there for when you're topdecking and you need to somehow push damage through. Imo if you can't get a hold of him try seal of fire or any random cheap burn to replace him.
And for reference check out Paulo Carvalho's build, which went top32 at worlds: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds06/stdecks
Cryoclasm isn't a sideboard card in the current format imo. If you think about what it doesn't work against it will make a lot more sense. Cryoclasm doesn't work against: mirror match, Rakdos and any mono-colored R, G or B deck. How many gruul, rakdos or single colored decks do you see around lately? And of those, how many are successful?
My build is very specific for the net-deck meta because where I play, the people love playing with top 8 builds. If you play in Carmichael then you might know what I mean. If you aren't familiar with the shop in Carmichael, it's on the wizards website if you look for sanctioned tournaments in the Sacramento area. (I don't have any association with the Carmichael shop, I just noticed that Bean is from Sacramento, CA and that's where I play.)
PS, I just noticed that you wanted to try the solifuges in place of magus'. That just depends on what you are more comfortable with playing against. Solifuge is good against control and at the same time, probably the worst four mana you could spend against aggro. Seal is great against aggro, but almost a wasted draw against control. It's all up to how you want to play the deck.
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
"When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities."
- David Hume
"Arrogance and rudeness are training wheels on the bicycle of life -- for weak people who cannot keep their balance without them."
- Laura Teresa Marquez
I'd like to have a bit of discussion of what the sideboard should look like. Blood Moon x4 and Krosan Grip x4 seem to be required, but what about Serrated Arrows? I think they are probably the best anti-aggro answer the deck has right now (other than Slum), but I have considered testing Greater Gargadon and Stormbind. I think with Boros being so popular though, Arrows are the way to go. My biggest dilemma at the moment is deciding between Loaming Shaman for some graveyard hate, or Barbed Shocker against combo and Martyr. The shocker doesn't gaurantee anything, but it does mess with their gameplan, and get pieces out of their hand. It seems as if it would be more effective vs dragonstorm than martyr though. The only other thing I can see is maybe Sudden Shock for Martyr, since that is such a nasty match-up for this deck... On second thought, the shocker might allow the deck to win via decking Martyr, but only rarely. I'm currently collecting Proclomation's so I can build Martyr for testing, but only finished building the other decks I was working on today, so it might be as long as a week before I can get any testing vs Martyr.
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
Originally I play 4 rumbling slum MD and 4 Burning Tree Shaman MD. Is there a reason they no longer are run MD. Too high of a casting cost? Another thought I had is SB some giant sollifuges for control matchups.
I have all the pieces to build this except the Magus of the Scroll and should get some testing in this Thursday in Carmichel.
"When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities."
- David Hume
"Arrogance and rudeness are training wheels on the bicycle of life -- for weak people who cannot keep their balance without them."
- Laura Teresa Marquez
Birds aren't used for the simple fact that they can't enable a turn two Bloodthirsted Mauler.
Stonewood Invocation seems to be Aggro's Demonfire, an uncounterable finishing blow. That is good of course, but I haven't found any cards I'd like to drop from my build, and getting to 4 mana in a deck that likes to win by turn four or five is difficult. It might be worth testing in the magus' slot though. If you have other ideas for that slot, maybe try it in the Cryoclasm slot, but I highly endorse the Cryoclasm's in main deck. I suggest atleast testing the cryoclasm before replacing it with Invocation.
Serrated Arrows are there mainly to counter Boros' ability to drop guys on the field that are immune to our removal, and can't be blocked. While our guys tend to be bigger, they tend to have more tricks, and I fear they would win the race between Priest, Outrider, KotHN and forcing us to deal with CoP: Red. The other thing Arrows do is allow us to kill three aggro dudes (or atleast neuter 2-3 of them) so we can use our burn to finish off the opponent instead of worrying about doing three damage to that Savannah Lions.
Loaming Shaman vs Tormod's Crypt is a difficult choice for me, but I've sided with the Shaman just because he's a beater as well. That's only a personal choice though, and I have no testing results that claim it's the superior card for this deck.
I would love to fit Solifuge in the sideboard of this deck, but I just don't see the room. I've traded for four copies of the beast, but they've never seen play under my ownership. I'd like to change that, but I don't see the space.
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
I am going to try out invocation in my build and I am probably not going to run any magus of the scroll. I am also going to try and fit solifuge in my SB. Here is another possible SB option:
Avoid Fate
Of course it is very situational. I am going to run 4 in the board. There have been plenty of times I could use it. I am probably going to run 3 Krosan/4 Solifuge/4 Avoid Fate/4 Blood Moon in my SB. I am sure I will alter it at some point but I think that is a good start. Also, what do you thing about Browbeat MD? Could get you in range for a killing blow...could draw some good card advantage...
I also plan on running demonfire in my MD. At least 1 but maybe 2. The deck won't be complete for a few weeks because I am waiting for 4 COTHs to arrive via EBAY and I won't be able to transfer funds until the weekend.
"When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities."
- David Hume
"Arrogance and rudeness are training wheels on the bicycle of life -- for weak people who cannot keep their balance without them."
- Laura Teresa Marquez