[Official Thread] SI - Fastest Combo in Legacy

[emidln]

This is about my team's deck called SI. When the deck was first leaked it was referred to as Contract Tendrils. Since June I've seen peoples' suggestions go from bad to worse. I recently picked this deck back up and it's as effective as ever. I've made some notable changes that help to wade through the immense hate that this deck can fold to.

That said, SI is a Tendrils-based combo. It is in a very small category of decks that are consistently more than a 60% turn 1 combo deck. Undisrupted, this will win the game before the first turn is passed at least 60% of the time. Furthermore, each additional turn adds about 20% to the liklihood that you could go off undisrupted. By turn 3 you can likely have your way with an opponent who isn't play countermagic or discard. Unfortunately, a lot of viable decks play these components, but on the same side of the coin, the games don't last that long.

SI is based around the idea that Speed and Threats are disruption. SI has a higher threat density than any other combo deck in the format. 8 Draw4s, 2 IGG, 6 Tutors, and 4 Win conditions are all imminent threats if they resolve. SI combines these threats with more fast mana than any other deck (16 ritual effects (4x Dark Rit, Cabal Rit, Culling the Weak, LED), 10 free storm enablers/blockers/sacrifice targets, and 14 free mana (Land Grant, 2 Lands, Chrome Mox, Lotus Petal) to explode on the opening turns. There is no disruption besides speed of threats.

BZK Spanish Inquisition
Free Mana: 2 Bayou 4 Land Grant 4 Lotus Petal 4 Chrome Mox Rituals: 4 Dark Ritual 4 Cabal Ritual 4 Culling the Weak 4 Lion's Eye Diamond Tall Men: 4 Shield Sphere 4 Phyrexian Walker	Minimal Protection: 4 Cabal Therapy Business: 4 Infernal Tutor 2 Ill-Gotten Gains 4 Cruel Bargain 4 Infernal Contract 3 Tendrils of Agony 1 Goblin Charbelcher	Sideboard: 4 Xantid Swarm 4 Tomb of Urami 3 Massacre 4 Naturalize

Some notes on card choices:

10 Free Artifact Creatures are not better as Kobolds. The difference in viability between Honeycombs and SI is that SI doesn't fold to a hand that isn't a turn 1 kill. Using the very tall creatures you can block long enough to sculpt the perfect hand to go off against most aggro decks. Additionally, in matchups like Threshold, Tall Creatures give you the time needed to bait out counters and go off in the first game. Without these creatures you cannot win this matchup a decent percentage of the time. The fact that the tall creatures don't make mana with Chrome Mox is rarely relevant(less than 1 in 200 games), and usually only due to keeping a bad hand in the first place. Contrary to first thought, 10 Kobolds and Chrome Mox + Lotus Petal don't make Burning Wish viable in SI.

Ill-Gotten Gains: This card isn't required to win. This is a good storm enabler in our format and included as a 2-of for the ability to randomly win when combined with a tutor and 2 of 8 cards that we already play. I usually board this out in game 2 if I suspect my opponent is going to bring in T-Crypt. Treat IGG as a bonus, not a necessity and you will be more successful with SI. As such, this deck isn't graveyard dependent.

Bayou over Taiga with Charblelcher: Charbelcher is an alternate win condition against Meddling Mage and random storm hate. I do not consider this the go-to win condition unless it simply falls into my lap. Taiga, while it would enable more Belcher kills, would sigificantly decrease your ability to win by dropping your turn 1 mana sources from 14 to 13. You need black mana on turn 1.

Land Grant over Fetchlands: I have a fetchland-based version of this. It cannot beat Threshold game 1. The current version can. This is enabled soley with Charbelcher. Playing Fetchlands makes Belcher unviable. IMO, this is something I can't condone in the current environment.

Basic play:

When playing a draw4, make sure you can continue the combo after drawing cards. This can happen through floating mana, Chrome Mox/Lotus Petal, or Land (or Land Grant) in hand without a land drop this turn. If all you have is Cabal Ritual in hand, and would be leaving 1 floating, you must do some math. I'm not going to do it for you, but you need to know how many 1 mana rituals and 0cc accel left and weigh that against your chances of drawing LED + Tutor or Cabal Rit as your only outs and no mana to cast them. This deck is firmly planted in the realm of statistics. If you don't like Math, I would not suggest SI. It is very rare that you float no mana and draw 4 into the nuts of Lotus Petal, Creature, Culling the Weak, Tendrils/Draw4.

Against Counters, Chrome Mox is your most important mana source. It stays in play and is not wasteable. Bait with Land Grants and Lotus Petals if possible. You'll need Chrome Mox in the future turns to cast your rituals one at a time to bait with threats. When going off against control, try to be resistant to at least one counterspell. This might mean double threat, double ritual, or double mana source. It really depends on the situation. Part of being an SI pilot is knowing these situations from play experience.

The easiest way to pick up SI is to load up MWS and play it -- a lot. At around 200 games you should be able to analyze hands by looking at them within a few moments. At about 500 games you should be able to start taking on the Threshold/Fish matchup. At 1000 you should be able to beat UGR Threshold consistently and go at least even with UGW Thresh/UBW Fish.

Matchups:

Aggro without Discard: Nearly 100%. Draw first. No other deck in the format can race your goldfish. To my knowledge, the only other format-legal decks that can are Vintage Meandeck Tendrils/SX and an old Extended Yawgmoth's Bargain deck that caused several bannings. If they lack counters and discard, you should not lose except to the rare fizzle (around 5% of the time when only going off with draw4s in my experience).

Goblins can play Chalice @ 0 game 2. If they do, and you aren't immediately hosed you can try to combo out, but moving to game 3 is probably the best response if it's clear they didn't keep a hand soley on Chalice @ 0. This matchup is still highly favorable approaching unwinnable for Goblins.


Aggro with Discard: At least 60% in your favor on the play. Play first. You simply race them. Every game. They can play turn 1 Duress or worse if they get a turn. You can kill them before they get a turn. On the draw, you are subject to Duress, Rit, and Hymn, but they must also draw these cards. Their chances of playing turn 1 Duress or Hymn are about 55%. If they only play Duress, you may still be able to go anyway. Most hands include several threats that need to be duressed away. If you opponent is not familiar with Contract Tendrils they may very well mistake cards like IGG for critical and Duress them instead of mana sources or whatever else you happen to need. Remember, you have 10 creatures that block for a very long time. Against discard, you generally want to play out artifacts asap due to their chance at being duressed away. Also, in the topdeck war, you will win. You have more threats, most of them can easily be played and start your combo with only a few artifacts on hand. This matchup is generally favorable to slightly favorable. They will win on the play with their nuts draw of Dark Rit, Duress, and Hymn sometimes. It happens.

Aggro-Control with Daze and (Threshold, Fish, Madness, Gro): Play first. Your role here is as the aggressor and then as prowler testing their defenses. By far your worst matchup of the bunch is UWB Fish. They have Daze, Counterspell, FoW, and Duress. This is not favorable if you are not on the play. In all matchups, you want to be on the play, and press the issue as soon as possible, preferrably turn 1. SI asks "Do you have Force?" better than any other deck in our format. They have a 40% chance of having Force turn 1 and you have a 60% chance of killing them on turn 1. This is as good as the matchup gets unless you are playing against a build lacking Meddling Mage.

Against builds with Meddling Mage you will probably need to set up a Charbelcher kill by testing defenses with Draw4s, playing blockers, and tutoring up Charbelcher. Against UGR Threshold, you can simply test them until they run out of counterspells. UGR Thresh only plays 10-12 counters to your 20 threats, usually some variation of 4 FoW, 3 Daze, 3 Counterspell. They don't always have them, so playing 2-3 threats should rid them of their protection. This matchup is even to slightly less than favorable, except against Fish. Against Fish, this matchup is unfavorable.

43Lands: you can't lose except to fizzling, see aggro but 43Land is much slower. Draw first in this matchup. This matchup is highly favorable.

Angel Stax/UbaStax: These show up on occassion. I have some play notes worked up because me and my team have little else to do.

Angel Stax will probably Chalice for 1 game 1. Luckily, you will just race them. You need your 1 mana rituals much less than than your 0cc stuff. If they get Trinisphere down and you have at least Chrome Mox/Lotus Petal down game is not over yet. Remember, they deal a lot of damage to themselves over the course of the game, and Cabal Ritual still makes mana under Trinisphere with Threshold. If they find a Smokestack game is over however. Angel Stax will board out Ghostly Prison in game 2, so bring in Tomb of Urami to fight Trinisphere and as an extra win condition. Keep in Belcher in this matchup. This matchup is even to slightly favorable.

Don't play against UbaStax. If you do, win the dice roll and play first. That is my best advice to you. They can actually put Chalice and Trinisphere down at meaning values turn 1, unlike Angel Stax, and back it up with a quick lock. If you do find yourself playing against UbaStax, hope they board out Ensnaring Bridge game 2 and board in Tomb of Urami. SI is the only combo deck that can go better than 30% with UbaStax in my experience, at an amazing 38% historically. Thankfully, you won't see this much. This matchup is very unfavorable.

Other combo:

Iggy Pop: You are a lot faster than they are. 1-3 Turns faster depending on their draw. You actually want to draw first in this matchup as there is no penalty for doing so. You get an extra card which is like taking an extra turn. This matchup is highly favorable.

Salvagers: Play first. If they go turn 1 Therapy they likely won't hit anything. Duress could slow you down so try to keep resiliant hands. You can usually win the turn after. You want to win this match asap as they run 8 discard spells and sometimes Deeds. This matchup is even.

Solidarity: Play first. In the relevant turns they have Force of Will and nothing else. Remand isn't online until their turn 2 by which time they should be dead, FoW or not. Remember, you can IGG for a Discard 4 turn 1. This is highly effective as you come back from no cards faster than they do. Board in Xantid Swarm if you suspect Disrupt, but it's not strictly required as you can easily combo on turns 1, 2, and 3 well before they have the cards and land necessary to go off in response (due to their own Forces). This matchup is heavily in your favor.

Belcher: draw first. You are a faster and more consistent turn 1 deck than they are. By drawing first, you are taking an extra turn to setup. This matchup is in your favor.

I'll post 10 hands from MWS (5 now, probably 5 tomorrow)

Hand #1 on the play
Cruel Bargain, Land Grant, Cabal Rit, Infernal Contract, Ornithopter, Culling the Weak, Culling the Weak

S1 Play Land Grant, revealing my hand, finding Bayou.
NS Play Bayou
S2 Play Ornithopter
NS: Tap Bayou for B, B floating
S3 Play Culling the Weak sacrificing Ornithopter
NS BBBB floating
S4 Play Cruel Bargain, losing 10 life
NS B floating, 10 life
NS Draw: Chrome Mox, Ill-Gotten Gains, Land Grant, Chrome Mox
S5 Play Chrome Mox imprinting Ill-Gotten Gains
NS Tap Chrome Mox for B, BB floating
S6 Play Cabal Ritual
NS BBB floating
S7 Play Infernal Contract, losing 5 life
NS: 0 floating, 5 life
NS: Draw: Infernal Tutor, Dark Ritual, Shield Sphere, Land Grant

Comment: Now, there is a a non-obvious turn 2 win here. Goblin Charbelcher wins next turn if we stop now. Our only other options involve imprinting Chrome Mox with a ritual we would need for combo or with a Land Grant that will make Chrome Mox worthless to us. We pass the turn at 5 life with the following hand:

Land Grant
Land Grant
Shield Sphere
Chrome Mox
Dark Ritual
Culling the Weak
Infernal Tutor

Next turn we do the following:

NS: Draw Chrome Mox (I really hate the MWS shuffler, this doesn't matter)
S1: Play Land Grant, finding Bayou
NS: Play Bayou, Tap Bayou for B, B floating
S2: Play Dark Ritual
NS: BBB floating
S3: Play Shield Sphere
S4: Play Culling the Weak sacrificing Shield Sphere
NS: BBBBBB floating
S5: Play Chrome Mox (no imprint)
S6: Play Chrome MOx (imprint Land Grant)
S7: Play Infernal Tutor with Hellbent, finding Goblin Charbelcher
NS: Tap Bayou, Chrome Mox and Chrome Mox for BBG, BBGBBBB floating
S8: Play Goblin Charbelcher
NS: BBG floating
NS: Activate Goblin Charbelcher, dealing 42 damage to our opponent

Turn 2 kill on the play.

Comment: This hand would lose to Force of Will on Charbelcher. If you suspect Force of Will, finding Tendrils and playing Tendrils for 18 would be an appropriate play here (not imprinting Land Grant, obv). The flaw here is that your Infernal Tutor can still be forced. Luckily, you opponent has had 1 turn and their opening 7 to find it. Stifle is also a problem here. Orim's Chant could be a problem if it was maindecked, as would be Duress (probably).

Hand #2 on the play
Infernal Contract, Diabolic Intent, Cabal Rit, Infernal Tutor, Dark Ritual, Culling the Weak, Infernal Contract

This hand does nothing and gets mulled into:
Land Grant, Dark Rit, IGG, Contract, ToA, DI

Comment: This hand isn't amazing, but it's keepable. We have some action turn 1 that will let us optimize our hand and set up a turn 2. It would be better if we were on the draw.

S1: Land Grant for Bayou, play Bayou
S2: Dark Rit
S3: Infernal Contract, lose 10 life
NS: Draw LED, Culling the Weak x2, Shield Sphere

Comment: This is now much more workable, we have a draw next turn and IGG into draw4, possibly Tendrils depending on what we draw.

NS: Draw Infernal Tutor

Comment: I would prefer a mana source here, but this will let us just win. Here's how.

NS Tap Bayou, B floating
S1 Shield Sphere
S2 Culling the Weak, sacrificing Shield Sphere
NS BBBB floating
S3 LED
S4 Play IGG, in response, break LED for BBB, getting LED, IT, Dark Rit
NS BBB floating
S5 Play Dark Rit
NS BBBBB floating
S6 Play LED
S7 Play IT, in response, break LED for BBB enabling Hellbent, find IGG
NS BBBBBB floating
S8 Play IGG getting Dark Rit, LED, Tendrils
NS BB Floating
S9 Play LED
S10 Play Dark Ritual
NS BBBB floating
S11 Play Tendrils of Agony with 10 storm for 22 total life loss

Turn 2 kill on the play with a mull to 6

Comment: In this example, IGG shows it brokeness in enabling a bad hand to win anyway. This hand would have forcing me to try something with Charbelcher otherwise.

Hand #3 on the draw for a change

Hand: Lotus Petal, Culling the Weak, Cruel Bargain, Infernal Tutor, Infernal Tutor, Dark Ritual, Chrome Mox

Comment: This hand is interesting because it has two avenues of play. One sets up turn 2 and the other tries for turn 1. The difference is what mana source you lead with.

Comment: If you lead with Chrome Mox, you need to imprint an Infernal Tutor. Since you haven't seen an LED yet this takes away a possible way to win. However, this lets you play Cruel Bargain to look for a Creature/LED while still being able to continue comboing with Lotus petal either this turn or the next turn. I'm honestly not sure which avenue is best. I would lean towards imprinting Infernal Tutor because it gives the most possibilities turn 2. In any event, you definitely keep this hand.

NS: Draw IGG

Comment: This changes significantly our avenue of play. Now we have our first two scenarios, along with the possibility of imprinting IGG or using it to fuel a Tendrils kill backed up by Infernal Tutor -> Tendrils. I'll play this avenue as it gives the most opportunities IMO.

S1: Chrome Mox imprinting IT, tap for B
NS: B floating
S2: Dark Ritual
NS: BBB floating
S3: Cruel Bargain, losing 10 life, drawing 4 cards
NS: Draw Diabolic Intent, Tendrils, Shield Sphere, Land Grant

Comment: winning from this point is rather simple. You don't need to setup a turn 2, you just kill. You just play out your hand, IGG, get back creature, culling, tendrils and win. Played out, it looks like this:

S4: Lotus Petal
S5: Land Grant to find Bayou, play Bayou, tap bayou for B
NS: B floating
S6: Play Shield Sphere
S7: Play Culling the Weak, sacrificing Shield Sphere
NS: BBBB floating
S8: Play IGG getting Culling the Weak, Shield Sphere, Tendrils
S9: Play Shield Sphere
NS: Sacrifice Lotus Petal for B, B floating
S10: Play Culling the Weak sacrificing Shield Sphere
NS: BBBB floating
S11: Play Tendrils of Agony with 10 storm copies for 22 life loss

Turn 1 kill on the draw.

Comment: this hand had several options. IMO, the play that gives you the most options is probably the right play. Keeping IGG allowed us more outs than keeping the 2nd Infernal Tutor as the 2nd Infernal Tutor would have only led to comboing with an LED drawn.

Hand #4 on the draw:
Ornithopter, Ornithopter, Infernal Contract, Dark Ritual, Culling the Weak, Infernal Tutor, Goblin Charbelcher.

Comment: Take a look at this hand. If you draw a mana source, this hand might win turn 1. Ask yourself "how?" What if your mana source is Chrome Mox?

Comment: This hand has two problems. The first is that it doesn't have any mana. Stastically, this isn't actually much of a problem as we have blockers and some time to kill along with 14 mana sources left in the deck. The problem is that when we activate Belcher off IT for Culling the Weak, double Culling, we haven't taken any land out of the deck yet (that is the turn 1 solution btw). Alternately, you could try to draw4 into something by imprinting Infernal Tutor. I'll play out both.

NS: Draw Chrome Mox
S1: Play Chrome Mox imprinting Infernal Contract
NS: Tap Chrome Mox for B, B floating
S2: Dark Ritual
NS: BBB floating
S3: Infernal Tutor revealing Culling the Weak, get Culling the Weak in hand
NS: B floating
S4: Play Ornithopter
S5: Play Culling the Weak sacrificing Ornithopter
NS: BBBB floating
S6: Play Ornithopter
S7: Play Culling the Weak, sacrificing Ornithopter
NS: BBBBBBB floating
S8: Play Goblin Charbelcher
NS: Use BBB to activate belcher and belch for 13.

Fizzle turn 1 with Chrome Mox on the table.

Comment: There is a subtle misplay that I noticed while I was working on the alternative. It would be more important in an actual game than in Goldfish, but it would allow you one blocker after Belching. The play is to not IT for Culling the Weak, play out Belcher, play IT, you are now hellbent, and find LED. Activate Belcher off LED. This allows you to keep a block in the likely scenario you don't make it to 20 non-land cards.

Alternately,

NS: Draw Chrome Mox
S1: Play Chrome Mox imprinting Infernal Tutor
NS: Tap Chrome Mox for B, B floating
S2: Play Dark Ritual
NS: BBB floating
S3: Play Ornithopter
S4: Play Culling the Weak
NS: BBBBBB floating
S5: Play Cruel Bargain to draw 4 cards, lose 10 life
NS: BBB floating, Draw Culling the Weak, Lotus Petal, Land Grant, LED
Comment: it seems that the MWS shuffler smiles on me as this is nearly the nutz draw in our case.
S6: Play Lotus Petal
NS: Sac Petal for B, BBBB floating
S7: Play Goblin Charbelcher
S8: Play Land Grant for Bayou
NS: Play Bayou
S9: Play LED
NS: Sac LED for BBB, activating Goblin Charbelcher to deal 45 damage (Bayou is 2nd to last)

Turn 1 kill on the draw

Hand #5: Mull hand #5 on the draw.
Hand: Cabal Rit, Lotus Petal, Tendrils of Agony, Chrome Mox, Dark Ritual Phyrexian Walker

Comment: This hand isn't that bad. It has potential and is probably keepable. It needs 1 of 16 remaining bombs or 1 of 9 more creatures on our first draw to make it solid. There's a good chance that we'll see one of the cards we want. Also, if we hit another ritual, we could safey hit 1 of 19 remaining business spells (the 2 Tendrils and Belcher now come into play) to win the game. This is probably a turn 2 or turn 3 hand. This isn't the end of the world as you don't always need to win on turn 1. Case in point: against Goblins and Survival. There is also always the possibility to mini-tendrils for life-gain.

NS: Draw Cruel Bargain

Comment: This is just what we want. Excellent. We now have a choice about which mana source to use first. IMO, using Chrome Mox is not optimal here as we have an easy win in hand due to plentiful mana and four new cards. On the other hand, if we don't draw 4 spells, or we draw 4 business spells, Tendrils won't be that useful. I'll use Petal first.

S1: Lotus Petal
NS: Sac Petal for B
S2: Dark Ritual
NS: BBB floating
S3: Cabal Ritual
NS: BBBB floating
S4: Cruel Bargain, losing 10 life
NS: B floating, Draw: LED, Lotus Petal, Land Grant, Ornithopter.

Comment: Hosed. We don't see another colored source and thus stop our combo. If LED or Ornithopter are colored this would have turn 1'd. Anyway, we conserve spells and pass the turn at 10 life.

NS: Draw Shield Sphere
S1: Play Shield Sphere as a blocker
NS: 7 cards in hand, pass the turn

NS: Draw Shield Sphere
S1: Play Shield Sphere as a blocker
NS: 7 cards in hand, pass the turn

NS: Draw Cabal Ritual
S1: Play Phyrexian Walker as a blocker
NS: 7 cards in hand, pass the turn

Comment: at this point we have 3 tall blockers and are looking for a business spell to go off again. We can Tendrils for a small amount if needed as well. Against Aggro we are fine. Against Combo, we probably would have played a mini-Tendrils to force more pressure on them.

NS: Draw Culling the Weak
S1: Play Ornithopter as a blocker
NS: 7 cards in hand, pass the turn

NS: Draw Shield Sphere
S1: Play Shield Sphere
NS: 7 cards in hand, pass the turn

NS: Draw Dark Ritual
S1: Play LED
NS: 7 cards in hand pass the turn

NS: Draw Ill-Gotten Gains
S1: Play Lotus Petal
S2: Play Dark Ritual
NS: BBB floating
S3: Play Culling the Weak, sacrificing a Phyrexian Walker,
NS: BBBBBB floating, Threshold is reached
S4: Play Cabal Ritual
NS: BBBBBBBBB floating
S5: Play Chrome Mox (no imprint)
S6: Play IGG, if it resolves, get Tendrils, Cabal Rit, Cruel Bargain
NS: BBBBB floating

Path 1: if IGG resolves
S7: Play Cabal Rit
NS: BBBBBBBB floating
S8: Play Cruel Bargain, losing half your life, drawing 4 cards, one of which is probably castable.
S9: Play a castable card.
S10: Play Tendrils of Agony with storm of 8 probably killing the opponent

Path 2: if IGG does not resolve
NS: BBBBB floating
S7: opponent's counterspell
S8: Play Land Grant revealing hand to find Bayou
NS: Play Bayou
S9: Play Tendrils of Agony with storm of 8 probably killing the opponent

S5: Play Chrome Mox (no imprint)
S9: Play Dark Rit
NS: BBBB floating
S10: Play Cabal Rit
NS: BBBBBBB floating
S11: Play Tendrils of Agony with storm of 10

Very late kill against an Aggro deck. Against a Control deck, this would depend on what your are playing against, and you are dead vs Combo.

Alternately, you can play this hand with Land Granting early. It looks like this:

NS: Draw Ill-Gotten Gains
S1: Play Lotus Petal
S2: Play Dark Ritual
NS: BBB floating
S3: Play Culling the Weak, sacrificing a Phyrexian Walker,
NS: BBBBBB floating, Threshold is reached
S4: Play Cabal Ritual
NS: BBBBBBBBB floating
S5: Play Chrome Mox (no imprint)
S6: Play Land Grant revealing your hand, finding Bayou
NS: Play Bayou
S7: Play IGG, if it resolves, get Tendrils, Cabal Rit, Cruel Bargain
NS: BBBBB floating

Path 1: IGG resolves
S8: Play Cabal Rit
NS: BBBBBBBB floating
S9: Play Cruel Bargain, losing half your life and drawing 4 cards
S10: Play Tendrils of Agony with 9 Storm, probably killing them

Path 2: IGG is countered
NS: BBBBB floating
S8: opponent's counterspell
S9: Play Tendrils of Agony with 9 storm probably killing them

Comments: Sometimes things go wrong. We drew an unusually high percentage of creatures. Thankfully, we can use our creatures as blockers while we set up a hand that can win.

That's all for today, I'll write some more tomorrow, as well as possibly picking Sun Tower back up. Those who say there is no innovation in Legacy should be getting a kick out of Salvation lately.

Matchups. I just finished testing with my team. I tried to play most decks for 10 games, 10 preboard, 10 post-board, rotating who gets choice of playing first. Please note that I did some testing vs UWB Fish and changed the deck. I went 5-15 against them and decided to add Therapy. It helps some, but not enough to change aggro-control into a good matchup.

                                 classic         man-plan        notes
Deck                Preboard    Postboard    Postboard
------------------------------------------------------------------
Goblins             19-6           12-8            1-9              chalice + pyrostatic pillar
Pox                  8-2            9-1             5-5        
Pikula               6-4            7-3             6-4        
Enchantress      5-0                                                 didn't play, this matchup is a joke. their only hope is that I fizzle.
U/R/b Landstill   7-3            6-4              9-1        personal build with merchant scroll. may not be representative. do not play negator into burn.
UGW Thresh      4-6            6-4             8-2        **** pithing needle
UGR Thresh       5-5            5-5             3-7        negator + burn = not a combo
UWB Fish          2-8            5-5             3-7        Avoid this deck, Duress, Daze, FoW, Card Draw, 4/4s for 2 add up to bad times. Serenity? wtf?
Faerie Stompy   4-2 play      6-4             5-5        Yeah, this is another matchup I don't want to see
                      0-4 draw    2-8            0-10        
UbaStax           2-8           1-9            4-6        Pray you have the man plan and they don't know the matchup (i.e. board out Ensnaring Bridge. Oh, and don't let them draw spells...)
Solidarity          6-4           9-1             2-8        Aggro is bad vs Combo
43 Lands          10-0          7-3            1-9        Pyrostatic Pillar is some good. Aggro is not.
Iggy Pop          8-2            9-1             1-9        Aggro is bad vs combo

[Avatar of Kokusho]

This looks like a good list, but I am going to have to ask you for concrete playtesting results. If you could post them in the next day or two, I would appreciate it.

[z38gm]

Ive personally played emidln running this deck and its fast. One game he actually drew over 30 cards turn 1 and went off with a storm count of about 40 (was searching for a LED when he drew his whole deck). The deck seems pretty consistent but extremely extremely hard and taxing to play.

Emidln: what happened to the transformational sideboard you were testing on me? it seemed to work wonders and is a sure surprise.

[emidln]

Originally Posted by z38gm

Ive personally played emidln running this deck and its fast. One game he actually drew over 30 cards turn 1 and went off with a storm count of about 40 (was searching for a LED when he drew his whole deck). The deck seems pretty consistent but extremely extremely hard and taxing to play.

Emidln: what happened to the transformational sideboard you were testing on me? it seemed to work wonders and is a sure surprise.

It can't beat Fish very well. That is one of my problem matchups and thus I've moved it to the back burner until I can find a better creature to use in the Negator spot.

[Throst54]

Wow, this is really impressive, I was wondering when the draw 4 ofs were going to be abused.

How does the deck fare against things like a glowrider?

...too bad i just got all my cards for solidarity...

[Mr. Nightmare]

So in all of your goldfishes so far, as a control/combo player, I see this:

Hand #1: As you said, loses to Force on Belcher, with me having access to 8 cards + a land drop (ie: Brainstorm/Portent) to find it or Daze.

Hand #2: You use Land Grant, showing me that you lose to Force on Contract (or for that matter, on Land Grant). I don't see a chance at a second threat.

Hand #3: Again, if I'm allowed a turn to find Force, and now have access to Daze, you're in for a world of hurting. You Land Grant to let me see exactly what needs countering, I Daze the IGG and you lose.

Hand #4: First hand fizzled, with the second option you can play around Daze (kind of, you didn't do it but it can be done) but you can't play around Force on Belcher.

Hand #5: You go off on turn 8. Anything past turn 3 and you lose, no matter how many blockers you drop.

Do each of my responses assume I have a counter in hand? Yes. This isn't really that unlikely, though. With 4 Forces in your deck, you have about a 40% chance of seeing one in the top 7. If you give me a turn to Brainstorm or Portent, that percentage jumps to 67%. Throw Daze (as a 3-of) into the mix, and you are even higher. It's fair to assume I'll have accest to 1 out of an effective 7-of after seeing 10/60 cards.

[emidln]

Originally Posted by Throst54

Wow, this is really impressive, I was wondering when the draw 4 ofs were going to be abused.

How does the deck fare against things like a glowrider?

...too bad i just got all my cards for solidarity...

Glowriders costs too much mana. My opponents are generally dead before they have that kind of mana up. That said, I can always alternate into the Belcher plan, which doesn't really need to chain rits and tutors together to win.

[Alamoth]

The deck looks really powerful and when it plays out it is absolutely backbreaking delivering ToA for 20+ damage on turn 1 or 2. However, as mentioned above it unfortunately can crumble to a few things:

1) Force of Will on Goblin Charbelcher
2) Trinisphere
3) Stifle on Tendirls

Since the deck wins quite verily have you considered using Cabal Therapies? You can pitch them to your yard with IGG and replay them easily by sacrificing a 0cc creature. You can even play it twice. This would make the deck one turn slower, which is still 1~2 turns faster than almost every other 1.5 combo deck.

Also, could you elaborate a little more on the Sideboard. I would imagine its geared to play against Stax/Fish but some clarification would be nice.

[Eseph]

Originally Posted by emidln

Glowriders costs too much mana. My opponents are generally dead before they have that kind of mana up. That said, I can always alternate into the Belcher plan, which doesn't really need to chain rits and tutors together to win.

Keep in mind the main advocate for Glowrider is AS, and AS can and will drop glowrider turn 1.
That aside just wanted to say the deck looks impressive, I'm going to be proxying it up to test out momentarily. Won't get any match results till friday or saturday though.

Edit: I like the SB Massacre, resolves the glowrider effectively enough, as well as any true believers that may have landed.

[emidln]

I just did a bit of testing with Goblins (the 3rd place Gencon list if you're interested). Preboard, I went 8-2, losing once to mana burn. Post-board, we only had time for 5 matches and went 3-2, dying once to not seeing business in the top 20 cards (I got off a Tendrils for 18 to buy some time but saw nothing outside of rituals and creatures forever). The only game I lost was on a hand that I had a turn 2 calculated and lost to pyrostatic pillar before I could find an answer.


Massacre deals with a bunch of different threats. Meddling Mage, Glowrider, True Believer, Children of Korelis, and sometimes even Goblins when they fetch out Plateau recklessly.

As for getting around Glowrider and Pyrostatic Pillar, I've found that Belcher has become a huge boost. The ability to ignore such hate has helped me out immensely. Also, in regards to Mr. Nightmare claiming I've lost after turn 3, I was successfully stalling goblins until turn 6 when I killed them. Lots of blocks are a good answer to Goblin Lackey as it forces Goblins to find a Vial to cheat or to play fair. Goblins isn't very good when it plays fair. Also, their disruption doesn't phase SI at all. Bayous are treated as Lotus Petals for the most part.

A build of Goblins like the one Machinus played at D4Ds with 4x Tinkerer and 4x Chalice would be much more difficult however. Thankfully, nobody plays these builds, although they are good against more than just SI.

The sideboard is geared towards dealing with Aggro Control and Artifact/Enchantment threats like those that Goblins and Stax play. Tomb of Urami and Xantid Swarm are good against Fish and other aggro control along with Massacre. Massacre is used anywhere white stuff troubles me (mostly Thresh and Fish, but sometimes Goblins and B/W Confidant). Naturalize is brought in against hate like Pyrostatic Pillar and Chalice of the Void, as well as Trinisphere. As a note on Triniphere matchups, you need to board in the extra Tombs to use as Lands so you have a chance to get out of the 3sphere.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I would think the transformational sideboard a strict necessity, because in terms of swapping out combo pieces for 4 Naturalize, that plan seems awful.


I get the name reference, but Caveat Emptor would probably be better.

[emidln]

Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssasin

I would think the transformational sideboard a strict necessity, because in terms of swapping out combo pieces for 4 Naturalize, that plan seems awful.


I get the name reference, but Caveat Emptor would probably be better.

The transformational sideboard is this:

4 Tomb of Urami
4 Avatar of Discord
4 Phyrexian Negator
3 Cabal Therapy / Naturalize / Flesh Reaver

The last slot depends on what you fear the most. I usually run Naturalize.

When I transform, I do the following

-4 Infernal Tutor
-2 Diabolic Intent
-1 Goblin Charbelcher (more lands are bad)
-2 Infernal Contract
-1 Cruel Bargain
-2 Ill-Gotten Gains
+12 fat creatures

and if I go full transformation, I take out an additional
-1 Cruel Bargain
-1 Land Grant (This should be something else, but I don't have anything else I really want to cut. The 4th is also kinda marginal post-board.)
-1 Tendrils of Agony

[Mr. Nightmare]

@ Hand 5, and Goblins: Your life total starts at 10. Let's say for 8 turns, not a single goblin gets through your impenetrable field of 0/x's, and that they don't cycle out a Gempalm to nuke any of them, and they don't find SGC and/or Fanatics to burn you out, and they don't waste your mana sources, and they don't find Port to shut them down, and they don't get Kiki-Jiki -> Ringleader/SGC/Matron or any Piledrivers to punch through your walls. Then you can win on turn 8.

I'm not knocking the deck, emidln. I'm just trying to keep you aware that even on turn 1, you never actually get to Goldfish. I built a surprisingly similar deck after Infernal Tutor came out, and it just didn't prove consistent enough, although it won incredibly fast. I see a lot of the same here.

[Eseph]

Keep in mind wasteland/Port don't really do anything to this deck. Assuming a reasonable hand there's no reason this deck souldn't beat out goblins most every time. Especially preboard, as there is nothing in typical goblins to disrupt this deck.

[Mr. Nightmare]

Originally Posted by Sh33p

Keep in mind wasteland/Port don't really do anything to this deck. Assuming a reasonable hand there's no reason this deck souldn't beat out goblins most every time. Especially preboard, as there is nothing in typical goblins to disrupt this deck.

I completely agree. However, if you fizzle and don't draw any gas again until turn 8, you shouldn't expect to beat Goblins. That's all I'm saying.