"Playing Pauper is like running with weights." -Haloscope
"The difference between Pauper Magic and regular Magic is the difference between learning karate and buying a gun." -Redleg
PAUPER MAGIC is our focus. We enjoy playing casual and competitive Magic using only commons. Whether you're unable to afford playing Standard or Extended, you seek a change of pace, or you're interested in challenging yourself, Pauper Magic is a great choice and worth your attention.
Our clan has "open friendship" with anyone who posts relevant, intelligent, and considerate messages in our threads. We also have "open membership" in that we welcome anyone interested in Pauper Magic into our clan. Even if you're not a member, we strongly encourage you to discuss Pauper Magic with us here.
Ok, here's my latest (well, it hasn't actually changed much other than adding a sideboard since its creation since I've only tested against one deck) list for Boros Blink for post PC:
I'm on the fence about a few things, including maindeck Martyr of Ashes, but I have to do more testing before making any changes. If anyone is avaiable at any point for some MWS, IM me and I can get some more testing in.
I am trying to make a RW Slivers deck in Planar Chaos. It's one of my many deck ideas. Even though I'd love to see Slivers become a force in Standard PDC, I don't think the power is there. I'm going to be testing it for a while, anyway.
Welcome to another new thread! Here is my first Planar Chaos decklist. It's not very original--in fact I think another Prince posted the idea on the previous thread--but it's too fun to pass up.
Eegag, I would suggest that you run Drift of Phantasms so that you can find Reality Acid with more consistancy. Also, why not add some Whitemane Lions to the deck so you can bounce the bouncers for more Reality activations? It's pretty good with Riftwatcher too!
Polyjak:
How could you be so stupid as to exclude Poultice Sliver from your decklist? Even if the tap to regen ability never comes in handy, it's still a 2/2 body for 3 mana, which is a spot on the curve that this deck doesn't fill well. I'll replace Veteran Armorer with Poultice for now and see how that makes a difference.
Other deck ideas I've got floating around in the back of my head: RG Ponza -- just need to get the right spell mix and some decent finishers. WW/u -- not a ton added in U, but there are some new additions. Rakdos Aggro -- an update of Jakdos, now with Keldon Marauders. Gnarrly Beats -- I think this deck gets mad better.
Changes from the last version:
1) No House Guards MD. I just wasn't tutoring - I never really needed to.
2) 4x Skulking Knights. Flanking and 3/3 = beef.
Changes I'd make now:
This deck's problem has always been that I've always tried to force it to do too many things. I wanted a deck that was quick out of the gate, but that had a great mid-late game and could establish either combo out, lock out, or control the game. That's just too much for one deck. Both my Toolbox and my Rock Harvest have the same essential core cards - but try to do different things. Toolbox was less about control and more about answers. Rock Harvest was less about aggro and more about control.
Also, part of it is that I've been blinded by favorite cards. I love playing with Deathspore Thallid. Its just so much fun! However, he's fragile and slow. Without other Sap support cards, which are ALSO fragile and slow, he's just not as good. Damn you Polyjak for predicting this!!!
The funny thing is that once you start to pluck out certain cards from the list, the deck is looking more and more like a BRG aggro. Now, this isn't bad, but I really wanted a Rock deck. Of course, there's always shades of The Rock. I could be pushing a more aggro variant.
Once you pluck out the Deathspore Thallids, the only really "control" elements of the deck are the Disciple (board control for big and small), Petrahydrox (takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'), and the Shambler (board wiper). With the exception of the Fa'adiyah Seer and the Stinkweed Imp, this deck starts to look quite aggressive.
So, after taking out the Deathspores, I see a few different routes:
1) Push the deck BACK to a toolbox. Add in the House Guards and a few things they can fetch: Icefall, Wrecking Ball. I've been down that road and always end up moving away from it again.
2) Push the deck BACK to control. Anti-flying: Penumbra Spider, Aquastrand Spider. I've tried nearly endless permutations of this theme.
3) Push the deck to more aggro. This is the one aspect of the deck I haven't pushed yet.
I'm tempted by the Deadly Grub. I'm also tempted to add the Penumbra Spider back in as well. I like the Grub because he can do double duty as aggro OR does well against control. Another reason I like it is you could fairly easily end up with an army of 6/1 monsters. Just cast one, let it die, get the 6/1, Harvest, rinse, repeat. I like the Penumbra Spider for the same essential reasons. If the game starts to go long, I can just stack up an army of 2/4 spiders so long as I have a sac outlet. Perhaps I'll run 2 grubs and 2 spiders to see how they do in the deck.
I've tried adding white to the deck before and had to yank it due to consistency issues. If I were to go back to white, I'd want to add Whitemane Lion. The WLion didn't make much sense in my prior versions because the creature that died most often was the Deathspore. Saving him to recast would mean I still had to wait three turns before he was anything other than a 2cc 1/1.
Alfred: Are you going to use the Goblin-o-War and/or Keldon Marauders in a new version of RB Insane? I figure they're both good utility and both can die easily for recursion.
I'm thinking of adding Gob'O War, because that can slow aggro down a good amount, but not the Marauders, just because they are mostly too agressive for the deck. Gob'O War might be useful as a Shred Memory target, but I can't say for sure until it's tested properly.
Plain and simple, Drop a creature and attack. I've goldfished it on beta and have managed a few turn 4 wins with it. The only creatures i'm not sure about are the Armorer (but with shamblers its becoming necessary) and the 2 squall drifters, they are evasive, but don't fit the curve well with the 2 cc 1 power body.
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Currently Playing Pauper T2 BurntFish Pauper Classic MBC Pauper Classic Chilly Dog Top Secret TSP Block Deck Pauper FutEx Cogs
Winner Mini PDC 4.14,6.10 TPDC 5.09, 5.11, SPDC 2.10
Hey Buttons, I'm thinking of getting more into classic. The thing is, I mainly like to play MUC and want to branch into other decks more.
I figure that since you're more knowledgable of the classic meta, maybe you could suggest some decks to me that are similar to MUC that I might enjoy playing. Or just suggest decks in general. I'm thinking of putting together Deep Dog and maybe an updated Blink Cogs.
Polyjak, did you see Halo's quote from the last thread? It was something along the lines of "Playing pauper is like running with weights." I think this should be added to the header post.
Plain and simple, Drop a creature and attack. I've goldfished it on beta and have managed a few turn 4 wins with it. The only creatures i'm not sure about are the Armorer (but with shamblers its becoming necessary) and the 2 squall drifters, they are evasive, but don't fit the curve well with the 2 cc 1 power body.
I think a deck like this has a lot of power and potential. You really need Ivory Giant though, that guy is ridiculous. I played White Weenie at SPDC World Champs, heres the list I used: (Somehow I completely glanced over War Cry. One of the pitfalls of being new to the format I guess)
Quote from Me on the thread about SPDC on the wizards boards »
[deck="The Best Draft Deck Ever"]
Lands:
6 Mountain
17 Plains
Creatures:
3 Suntail Hawk
4 Veteran Armorer
4 Amrou Scout
4 Amrou Seekers
4 Benalish Cavalry
1 Children of Korlis
4 Cloudchaser Kestrel
2 Guardian of the Guildpact
4 Ivory Giant
1 Zealot il-Vec
Other cards:
4 Fortify
2 Temporal Isolation
Sideboard
1 Mountain
4 Rain of Embers
1 Guardian of the Guildpact
4 Martyr of Sands
3 Subterranean Shambler
2 Temporal Isolation
I didn't want to lose to Warrens so I added some mountains and some sideboard cards. It also was premium for bluffing burn.
The one mountain in the sideboard is for consistency's sake..... What?
This deck almost always goldfishes turn 6-7 kill, so its pretty fast. Fortify is the absolute nuts, and Ivory Giant is a very good man.
Oh, and this deck also gets ridiculous after PC comes out with all of the new rebels, theoretically at least.
I think that a deck model like that would work out better because it has more evasion and more of a long game then the typical White Weenie deck that you posted. The Scout-Seekers package along with Giant really gives you power.
Sorry for intruding in on your thread, but I wanted to chime in. I hope I'm not causing problems being here.
[quote=grozathia;/comments/10014171]Hey Buttons, I'm thinking of getting more into classic. The thing is, I mainly like to play MUC and want to branch into other decks more.[quote]
I look forward to helping you out. I'll post Deck lists in a bit for the decks to beat, but it pretty much sums up to what can be RG and what can not. Affinity is powerful but most people don't like playing it.
If you are looking for a good MUC Deck then i would check out Lulthyme's MUC deck. He runs it constantly in TPDC and Euro and manages to t4 often. His is a little difficult to play, but briefcandle plays an aggro version of it titled blue meanies. That is a little easier to play. I'll post deck lists when i get more time later.
I've been working with SpikeboyM on Deepdog for a week or two. He's the creator of the deck but i've managed to make it a little better for those not as skilled playing it. Deepdog is a tough one to play though, its one of the more skill intensive aggro-control decks to play. Hence why only spike has managed much success with it.
Here's a quick breakout of skill players and decks they play well and prefer
Lulthyme - MUC
White Feather - Orzhov
White Djinn - Freed (now is working on Grapeshot combo)
SpikeboyM - Deepdog, BGR Gambit, Boros Aggro, etc
Briefcandle - Blue Meanies
Gloinoin - RG (the Preimer RG Player)
EVU - Burn Range, Mono Red Warrens
Me5794(myself) - WW
DME - RW Aggrolition
Floral Spuzzem- GW Cloak
Caedin/Ancien- MBC
There are few others but i'm pulling this off the top. The people above are what i would consider the "experts" at each given deck
Other decks to watch out for are Affinity and UB or UR Ninjas.
You can check them out on Paupermagic or i'll post deck lists when i'm not at work.
Classic is a big field but i think its more of a stable enviroment. If Standard Pauper is like fighting with Knives then Classic Pauper is using swords.
Groz, you can hit me up online for some test games i can build any deck to playtest with and i can hook you up with some cards as well. This offer goes out to the rest of you princes as well.
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I think a deck like this has a lot of power and potential. You really need Ivory Giant though, that guy is ridiculous. I played White Weenie at SPDC World Champs, heres the list I used: (Somehow I completely glanced over War Cry. One of the pitfalls of being new to the format I guess)
I think that a deck model like that would work out better because it has more evasion and more of a long game then the typical White Weenie deck that you posted. The Scout-Seekers package along with Giant really gives you power.
Sorry for intruding in on your thread, but I wanted to chime in. I hope I'm not causing problems being here.
I doubt there is a problem with you posting. The more the merrier it seems.
Also about the ivory giant, i have tested with it but it's too slow. I have t4 with the WW deck in its current incarnation 2 times in classic and once in standard this season. It's about laying threats early. By the time the giant hits you will have won or are dead. You need to lay threats at each turn to be effective.
WW is not about the long game, it's meant to be a deck that wrecks any deck that can't respond in turns 1-4. I do think that a Mono-White aggro or Aggro-control deck is possible with the giant though. I've yet to see an optimal build though.
Since you are all updating Decks i'll update good ole' WW ...//snip//.. Plain and simple, Drop a creature and attack. I've goldfished it on beta and have managed a few turn 4 wins with it. The only creatures i'm not sure about are the Armorer (but with shamblers its becoming necessary) and the 2 squall drifters, they are evasive, but don't fit the curve well with the 2 cc 1 power body.
One way to avoid the two problems you mentioned there is to run the updated WW/u build, which is rife with fliers. Here's the build I currently have:
We could add one of the other hawks, or Surveilling Sprite, which Grozathia was experimenting with. None of them is on the curve, but they pack additional evasion and tricks.
This deck is pretty fun to play and most of the creatures are evasive or flanky. WW could run a transformative sideboard with the blue element if it wants to avoid Subterranean Shambler, but I prefer just the maindeck WW/u, myself.
Rock on, Azorius!
EDIT: Bwee may be short on the years, but he's long on the deckbuilding finesse. He suggests these changes:
-4 Repeal
+4 Whitemane Lion
-1 Chancery
+1 Fortify
I make them eagerly.
EDIT 2: Bwee suggests a Rebel engine transformative sideboard to help the fight against control.
I like the flying WW(u) better than straight WW just because it's better vs shambler, which I think is one of the reasons Jak made it in the first place. It's worse AGAINST straight WW, but might have better matchups.
On the build, I'm iffy about Looters, they are, no matter how you look at them, still just 2 mana 1/1's. Sunlance also needs to get cut from the SB, I can't imagine any matchup that it would be useful enough against to warrant a full 4 SB slots. I can't think of a replacement at the moment though.
As for Stingscourger in Boros Blink, he's been underperforming a little bit. He would be the first to receive decreases in numbers if I were to add more cards.
I like the flying WW(u) better than straight WW just because it's better vs Shambler, which I think is one of the reasons Jak made it in the first place. It's worse AGAINST straight WW, but might have better matchups.
Well, I must admit that I only PROPOSED the WW/u deck; it was Grozathia who constructed it in something approaching optimality. Neither of us could have predicted the Gossamer Phantasm or whatever the card is called... the 2/1 blue Skulking Ghost. That guy is a huge boon to WW/u. Whitemane Lion is another boost. With Slivers underperforming at present, I may shelve it temporarily (or permanently) and concentrate on playtesting with WW/u. I'd like Slivers to work, but the ground forces are succeptible to Shambler control, which should continue to be popular. Perhaps Future Sight will provide one or two more solid red or white Slivers to complete the deck. Or perhaps I need to add green...
Quote from BweeBwee »
On the build, I'm iffy about Looters, they are, no matter how you look at them, still just 2 mana 1/1's. Sunlance also needs to get cut from the SB, I can't imagine any matchup that it would be useful enough against to warrant a full 4 SB slots. I can't think of a replacement at the moment though.
Looter is questionable, but because of his evasion and his land-dumping ability, I vote that he stays. He draws lots of removal, too. Sunlance is one of those cards that seems really novel until you try using it. With white being so popular (and powerful), I think axing the 'lance is a good call.
Quote from BweeBwee »
As for Stingscourger in Boros Blink, he's been underperforming a little bit. He would be the first to receive decreases in numbers if I were to add more cards.
He works really well with Blink, but he hasn't seemed to be a game-swinging card. You may be better off just running more burn or something else. Faith's Fetters.
I like the flying WW(u) better than straight WW just because it's better vs shambler, which I think is one of the reasons Jak made it in the first place. It's worse AGAINST straight WW, but might have better matchups.
Yeah. Shambler protection is huge on smaller creatures, and now there are a lot of them for cheap. That said, it probably loses to other creature decks, like you said. Those decks will use their removal, and they have a harder time blocking bigger creatures.
On the build, I'm iffy about Looters, they are, no matter how you look at them, still just 2 mana 1/1's. Sunlance also needs to get cut from the SB, I can't imagine any matchup that it would be useful enough against to warrant a full 4 SB slots. I can't think of a replacement at the moment though.
I too have a bit of a problem putting below-the-curve creatures in fast aggro decks. It's evasive, and has a card filtering ability that gets better as turns go on, but a creature that gets better over time isn't something an aggro deck wants, really. It wants to keep mashing an opponent with an efficient creature and uses disruption and removal to make a space for it to operate in. It also adds other efficient creatures to compliment it.
I suppose, however, that Fortify and especially Keldon War Cry could definately turn even a warm body into an offensive threat, so that is a plus. It evades as well. Poor if it's your only ground creature and Shambler shows up.
I think that it would actually be cool to make a deck with fliers and Shambler just to exploit the fact that you're the only one with flying creatures
I just have some classic decks that i promised to post for Groz.
These Decks are the ones that consistently place in the t4. Most decks have small variations based on the user, but i have included the decklists from the priemer users.
I have excluded Freed Combo and MBC from the lists because they have not been contenders for a while.
And Finally Here's a deck that I have been toying with recently. It is Spikeboym's DeepDog with a twist.
It is really effective against most match ups and I think the only reason I have lost a few games was because I was still learning to pilot the deck. The one short coming to spike's deck is its ability to Reach and break stalemates. The Aether bursts help but sometimes they are less than optimal. The Cloaks are usually a suprise as well and it can change strategies.
And as a Bonus I'm going to list a deck that won Euro Worlds. It seems to follow a similar design to Bwee's Izzet deck, but is more versitile because of card choices.
Thanks so much for the deck lists. I forgot that tonight I had already made plans with an old friend, so unfortunately I won't be able to play. I'm hoping to make it to euro or mini this weekend though.
I may have to assemble a couple of those. I'm working on Cloak, and WW is always a fave of mine. A few sets ago, I had a current version of BDW and RG Beats, as well. Times have probably changed a little. Maybe I should get current. The weekend Classic events fit my schedule a bit more.
Polyjak is thinking of playing Classic Pauper again? What is going on!?
Well, I'm game if the Princes of Pauper decide they want to invade Classic PDC tournaments. I have always been attracted to the early Saturday time slot - plus, the decks played there are often a bit more experimental, which is always fun.
I'd give it a 50% chance that I will make it to SPDC tonight. With the crazy, shifting "metagame" that is Standard Pauper, I might drag some older deck ideas (those that just rolled over and died to Orzhov) out for another spin.
I forgot that I have to work Saturdays from 11am - 3pm, effectively ruining both tourneys that day. There's no winning with my schedule, guys. I'll just have to follow along with whichever seasons you guys decide to frequent.
I do want to start working on a "nü-Extended" deck, which includes sets from Mirrodin and later. I know the rotation isn't for a while, but since I can only play casually, it doesn't matter to me. But I'll build some Classic decks and offer my services for playtesting, if you want.
And, of course, the same goes for Standard. I think we Princes have a strong foothold in the Standard world, and I'd hate to lose that!
THURSDAY STANDARD PDC 2.01
Thursday, February 01, 2007
WHEN and WHERE
Registration will open at 8:30 p.m. EST (GMT: 01:30 Friday) in /join spdc. The first round will begin approximately thirty minutes later.
COST and PRIZES
This event is absolutely FREE, no tickets needed just bring a deck that fits the rules below. Prizes, if any, are donated and will be awarded to the finalists. Donations are welcome.
Wizards of the Coast, Magic Online and boards administrators do not provide any support for these events. Participate/Organize at your own risk. Check our PRE FAQ for other questions and answers.
LEGAL CARDS and PROXIES
The format for this event will be Standard PDC. Cards printed as common in the following sets are legal: 9th Edition, Ravnica: City of Guilds, Guildpact, Dissension, Coldsnap, and Time Spiral. Cards printed as uncommon, rare, or timeshifted in these sets, though printed as common in an unlisted set, are not legal. The following legal commons have uncommon counterparts online which may be used as proxies:
Cremate (Invasion)
Foul Imp (7th Edition)
EVENT DETAILS and RULES
* There will be three rounds of play followed by a Top 4 playoff (Top 8 if there are more than 18 players).
* Matches will be played in the Casual Play > Anything Goes room.
* Matches must be timed for 60 minutes, must be watchable, and should have "SPDC" in the description. It is the responsibility of both players to ensure matches are set up correctly.
* If a player doesn't join their assigned match within 10 minutes of pairing announcements, their opponent will be awarded a game win. If a player doesn't join their assigned match within 20 minutes of pairing announcements, their opponent will be awarded a match win.
* The deck and sideboard used in the first round must be used for the entire event. Deviation from the deck used in the first round will result in disqualification.
* The use of illegal cards in the first round will result in a match loss and the opporunity to legalize the deck for the next round with disregard to the above rule. The use of illegal cards after the first round will result in disqualification.
* Please don't talk in other player's games unless both players agree that it is alright. Also, please don't use the tournament room for off-topic chat.
* Players in the Top 4 (or Top 8) are required to post their decklist in this thread, following the event, to encourage deck development. Season points only will be awarded after that.
* This is a PDC Ratings-enabled event. For more information on PDC Ratings, go to www.paupermagic.com and click on "Ratings."
SEASON and WORLDS CHAMPIONSHIP
This is the first event of a season with 16 tournaments. During the season players will earn 1 point for playing in each tournament and 2 points for each match win. I´ll post score updates each thread every week. At the end of the season the Top 24 scoring players will receive an invitation to play in SPDC Worlds Championship.
THIS WEEK'S PRIZES
1x Blinking Spirit foil (donated by Niabock)
2x Sudden Death (donated by Niabock)
1x Skred foil (donated by Evu)
4x Power Sink (donated by Evu)
Hey everyone....planar chaos is finally in stores. I should be getting my shipment of commons soon and can start playing around with deck ideas. It looks like everyone has already started...this could be very interesting.
I will have to look at classic again as I think that could be a fun format, especially if tourneys are on Saturdays, I may actually be able to play in them.
"Playing Pauper is like running with weights." -Haloscope
"The difference between Pauper Magic and regular Magic is the difference between learning karate and buying a gun." -Redleg
PAUPER MAGIC is our focus. We enjoy playing casual and competitive Magic using only commons. Whether you're unable to afford playing Standard or Extended, you seek a change of pace, or you're interested in challenging yourself, Pauper Magic is a great choice and worth your attention.
Our clan has "open friendship" with anyone who posts relevant, intelligent, and considerate messages in our threads. We also have "open membership" in that we welcome anyone interested in Pauper Magic into our clan. Even if you're not a member, we strongly encourage you to discuss Pauper Magic with us here.
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Ruinedlaw (AIM: Faulk00; MTGO: lostdream7)
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BweeBwee (AIM: BweeBweeBwee123; MTGO: BweeBwee)
Alfred (AIM: Alfred)
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giddygorgon (MTGO: giddygorgon)
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Ravnica Block Pauper - Visual Spoiler (Polyjak)
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Alfred's Decklists Pt. I (Alfred)
Card Drawing (Polyjak)
Board-Sweepers (Eegag)
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Commons with Tutoring Effects (Veserius)
Land Destruction (Grozathia)
Entry for Clan Contest #2, 2006
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Whitemane Lion
4 Stingscourger
4 Subterranean Shambler
4 Seal of Fire
4 Rift Bolt
4 Skred
2 Shock
4 Momentary Blink
2 Boros Garrison
4 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Snow-Covered Island
4 Snow-Covered Plains
9 Snow-Covered Mountain
3 Cloudchaser Kestrel
4 Guardian of the Guildpact
1 Shock
3 Petrahydrox
4 Goblin Skycutter
I'm on the fence about a few things, including maindeck Martyr of Ashes, but I have to do more testing before making any changes. If anyone is avaiable at any point for some MWS, IM me and I can get some more testing in.
EDIT:
Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes...
-3 Martyr of Ashes
+2 Subterranean Shambler
+1 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Boros Garrison
9 Snow-Covered Plains
5 Snow-Covered Mountain
//18 Slivers//
4 Sidewinder Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Two-Headed Sliver
3 Bonesplitter Sliver
3 Watcher Sliver
4 Whitemane Lion
4 Veteran Armorer
//12 Spells//
4 Skred
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fortify
4 Cloudchaser Kestrel
4 Gelid Shackles
4 Kjeldoran War Cry
1 Watcher Sliver
1 Bonesplitter Sliver
1 Cackling Flames
As you can see, the deck is still somewhat rough. I'm open to suggestions.
I'm considering Pentarch Ward as a possibility.
Alfred says no Armorer, suggesting burn instead. Volcanic Hammer being his recommendation.
I'm wondering about Gelid Shackles instead of Armorer.
9 Snow-Covered Island
9 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Terramorphic Expanse
// Creatures
4 Dream Stalker
4 Drake Familiar
4 Spiketail Drakeling
4 Azorius First-Wing
4 Aven Riftwatcher
3 Amrou Scout
4 Rune Snag
4 Mana Tithe
4 Reality Acid
3 Gelid Shackles
Goblin o'-War. Assess its performance.
Eegag:
I wonder if any of the following cards have a place in your build:
Whitemane Lion
Momentary Blink
Repeal
Faith's Fetters
Flight of Fancy
I think Bwee was planning a UR version of that deck, which has access to Galvanic Arc among other good spells.
Polyjak:
How could you be so stupid as to exclude Poultice Sliver from your decklist? Even if the tap to regen ability never comes in handy, it's still a 2/2 body for 3 mana, which is a spot on the curve that this deck doesn't fill well. I'll replace Veteran Armorer with Poultice for now and see how that makes a difference.
Other deck ideas I've got floating around in the back of my head:
RG Ponza -- just need to get the right spell mix and some decent finishers.
WW/u -- not a ton added in U, but there are some new additions.
Rakdos Aggro -- an update of Jakdos, now with Keldon Marauders.
Gnarrly Beats -- I think this deck gets mad better.
Toolbox v2d9
Rock Harvest v9b1
This is the deck I took up against Alfred's RB Insane v2.3.
4x Terramorphic Expanse
3x Rakdos Carnarium
7x Swamp
2x Mountain
7x Forest
1x Golgari Rot Farm
4x Fa’adiyah Seer
2x Pit Keeper
4x Deathspore Thallid
4x Skulking Knight
4x Shambling Shell
4x Stinkweed Imp
4x Disciple of Tevesh Szat
2x Petrahydrox
1x Subterranean Shambler
4x Strangling Soot
3x Grim Harvest
Changes from the last version:
1) No House Guards MD. I just wasn't tutoring - I never really needed to.
2) 4x Skulking Knights. Flanking and 3/3 = beef.
Changes I'd make now:
This deck's problem has always been that I've always tried to force it to do too many things. I wanted a deck that was quick out of the gate, but that had a great mid-late game and could establish either combo out, lock out, or control the game. That's just too much for one deck. Both my Toolbox and my Rock Harvest have the same essential core cards - but try to do different things. Toolbox was less about control and more about answers. Rock Harvest was less about aggro and more about control.
Also, part of it is that I've been blinded by favorite cards. I love playing with Deathspore Thallid. Its just so much fun! However, he's fragile and slow. Without other Sap support cards, which are ALSO fragile and slow, he's just not as good. Damn you Polyjak for predicting this!!!
The funny thing is that once you start to pluck out certain cards from the list, the deck is looking more and more like a BRG aggro. Now, this isn't bad, but I really wanted a Rock deck. Of course, there's always shades of The Rock. I could be pushing a more aggro variant.
Once you pluck out the Deathspore Thallids, the only really "control" elements of the deck are the Disciple (board control for big and small), Petrahydrox (takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'), and the Shambler (board wiper). With the exception of the Fa'adiyah Seer and the Stinkweed Imp, this deck starts to look quite aggressive.
So, after taking out the Deathspores, I see a few different routes:
1) Push the deck BACK to a toolbox. Add in the House Guards and a few things they can fetch: Icefall, Wrecking Ball. I've been down that road and always end up moving away from it again.
2) Push the deck BACK to control. Anti-flying: Penumbra Spider, Aquastrand Spider. I've tried nearly endless permutations of this theme.
3) Push the deck to more aggro. This is the one aspect of the deck I haven't pushed yet.
I'm tempted by the Deadly Grub. I'm also tempted to add the Penumbra Spider back in as well. I like the Grub because he can do double duty as aggro OR does well against control. Another reason I like it is you could fairly easily end up with an army of 6/1 monsters. Just cast one, let it die, get the 6/1, Harvest, rinse, repeat. I like the Penumbra Spider for the same essential reasons. If the game starts to go long, I can just stack up an army of 2/4 spiders so long as I have a sac outlet. Perhaps I'll run 2 grubs and 2 spiders to see how they do in the deck.
I've tried adding white to the deck before and had to yank it due to consistency issues. If I were to go back to white, I'd want to add Whitemane Lion. The WLion didn't make much sense in my prior versions because the creature that died most often was the Deathspore. Saving him to recast would mean I still had to wait three turns before he was anything other than a 2cc 1/1.
Alfred: Are you going to use the Goblin-o-War and/or Keldon Marauders in a new version of RB Insane? I figure they're both good utility and both can die easily for recursion.
- H
PoP Website
Magic Workstation
H/W list
OLD H/W list
GB Pauper T2 Rock Harvest v9b1
BR Pauper T2 Toolbox v2d5
Watcher of SPDC 1.07
Since you are all updating Decks i'll update good ole' WW
4 Suntail Hawk
4 Infantry Veteran
4 Boros Recruit
4 Sidewinder Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Veteran Armorer
4 Benalish Calvary
2 Squall Drifter
4 Fortify
4 Keldon War Cry
4 Sunlace
//Land//
18 plains
4 Dawn Charm
4 White Mane Lion
4 Ronom Unicorn
3 Mana Tithe
Plain and simple, Drop a creature and attack. I've goldfished it on beta and have managed a few turn 4 wins with it. The only creatures i'm not sure about are the Armorer (but with shamblers its becoming necessary) and the 2 squall drifters, they are evasive, but don't fit the curve well with the 2 cc 1 power body.
I figure that since you're more knowledgable of the classic meta, maybe you could suggest some decks to me that are similar to MUC that I might enjoy playing. Or just suggest decks in general. I'm thinking of putting together Deep Dog and maybe an updated Blink Cogs.
Polyjak, did you see Halo's quote from the last thread? It was something along the lines of "Playing pauper is like running with weights." I think this should be added to the header post.
[join the princes of pauper]
+1
I think a deck like this has a lot of power and potential. You really need Ivory Giant though, that guy is ridiculous. I played White Weenie at SPDC World Champs, heres the list I used: (Somehow I completely glanced over War Cry. One of the pitfalls of being new to the format I guess)
I think that a deck model like that would work out better because it has more evasion and more of a long game then the typical White Weenie deck that you posted. The Scout-Seekers package along with Giant really gives you power.
Sorry for intruding in on your thread, but I wanted to chime in. I hope I'm not causing problems being here.
I look forward to helping you out. I'll post Deck lists in a bit for the decks to beat, but it pretty much sums up to what can be RG and what can not. Affinity is powerful but most people don't like playing it.
If you are looking for a good MUC Deck then i would check out Lulthyme's MUC deck. He runs it constantly in TPDC and Euro and manages to t4 often. His is a little difficult to play, but briefcandle plays an aggro version of it titled blue meanies. That is a little easier to play. I'll post deck lists when i get more time later.
I've been working with SpikeboyM on Deepdog for a week or two. He's the creator of the deck but i've managed to make it a little better for those not as skilled playing it. Deepdog is a tough one to play though, its one of the more skill intensive aggro-control decks to play. Hence why only spike has managed much success with it.
Here's a quick breakout of skill players and decks they play well and prefer
Lulthyme - MUC
White Feather - Orzhov
White Djinn - Freed (now is working on Grapeshot combo)
SpikeboyM - Deepdog, BGR Gambit, Boros Aggro, etc
Briefcandle - Blue Meanies
Gloinoin - RG (the Preimer RG Player)
EVU - Burn Range, Mono Red Warrens
Me5794(myself) - WW
DME - RW Aggrolition
Floral Spuzzem- GW Cloak
Caedin/Ancien- MBC
There are few others but i'm pulling this off the top. The people above are what i would consider the "experts" at each given deck
Other decks to watch out for are Affinity and UB or UR Ninjas.
You can check them out on Paupermagic or i'll post deck lists when i'm not at work.
Classic is a big field but i think its more of a stable enviroment. If Standard Pauper is like fighting with Knives then Classic Pauper is using swords.
Groz, you can hit me up online for some test games i can build any deck to playtest with and i can hook you up with some cards as well. This offer goes out to the rest of you princes as well.
[join the princes of pauper]
+1
I doubt there is a problem with you posting. The more the merrier it seems.
Also about the ivory giant, i have tested with it but it's too slow. I have t4 with the WW deck in its current incarnation 2 times in classic and once in standard this season. It's about laying threats early. By the time the giant hits you will have won or are dead. You need to lay threats at each turn to be effective.
WW is not about the long game, it's meant to be a deck that wrecks any deck that can't respond in turns 1-4. I do think that a Mono-White aggro or Aggro-control deck is possible with the giant though. I've yet to see an optimal build though.
One way to avoid the two problems you mentioned there is to run the updated WW/u build, which is rife with fliers. Here's the build I currently have:
9 Snow-Covered Plains
5 Snow-Covered Island
4 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Azorius Chancery
//31 creatures//
4 Suntail Hawk
4 Sidewinder Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Looter il-Kor
4 Gossamer Spirit
4 Azorius First-Wing
4 Whitemane Lion
3 Benalish Cavalry
4 Kjeldoran War Cry
4 Fortify
3 Aven Riftwatcher
4 Amrou Seekers
4 Amrou Scout
4 Gelid Shackles
We could add one of the other hawks, or Surveilling Sprite, which Grozathia was experimenting with. None of them is on the curve, but they pack additional evasion and tricks.
This deck is pretty fun to play and most of the creatures are evasive or flanky. WW could run a transformative sideboard with the blue element if it wants to avoid Subterranean Shambler, but I prefer just the maindeck WW/u, myself.
Rock on, Azorius!
EDIT: Bwee may be short on the years, but he's long on the deckbuilding finesse. He suggests these changes:
-4 Repeal
+4 Whitemane Lion
-1 Chancery
+1 Fortify
I make them eagerly.
EDIT 2: Bwee suggests a Rebel engine transformative sideboard to help the fight against control.
On the build, I'm iffy about Looters, they are, no matter how you look at them, still just 2 mana 1/1's. Sunlance also needs to get cut from the SB, I can't imagine any matchup that it would be useful enough against to warrant a full 4 SB slots. I can't think of a replacement at the moment though.
As for Stingscourger in Boros Blink, he's been underperforming a little bit. He would be the first to receive decreases in numbers if I were to add more cards.
Well, I must admit that I only PROPOSED the WW/u deck; it was Grozathia who constructed it in something approaching optimality. Neither of us could have predicted the Gossamer Phantasm or whatever the card is called... the 2/1 blue Skulking Ghost. That guy is a huge boon to WW/u. Whitemane Lion is another boost. With Slivers underperforming at present, I may shelve it temporarily (or permanently) and concentrate on playtesting with WW/u. I'd like Slivers to work, but the ground forces are succeptible to Shambler control, which should continue to be popular. Perhaps Future Sight will provide one or two more solid red or white Slivers to complete the deck. Or perhaps I need to add green...
Looter is questionable, but because of his evasion and his land-dumping ability, I vote that he stays. He draws lots of removal, too. Sunlance is one of those cards that seems really novel until you try using it. With white being so popular (and powerful), I think axing the 'lance is a good call.
He works really well with Blink, but he hasn't seemed to be a game-swinging card. You may be better off just running more burn or something else. Faith's Fetters.
Yeah. Shambler protection is huge on smaller creatures, and now there are a lot of them for cheap. That said, it probably loses to other creature decks, like you said. Those decks will use their removal, and they have a harder time blocking bigger creatures.
I too have a bit of a problem putting below-the-curve creatures in fast aggro decks. It's evasive, and has a card filtering ability that gets better as turns go on, but a creature that gets better over time isn't something an aggro deck wants, really. It wants to keep mashing an opponent with an efficient creature and uses disruption and removal to make a space for it to operate in. It also adds other efficient creatures to compliment it.
I suppose, however, that Fortify and especially Keldon War Cry could definately turn even a warm body into an offensive threat, so that is a plus. It evades as well. Poor if it's your only ground creature and Shambler shows up.
I think that it would actually be cool to make a deck with fliers and Shambler just to exploit the fact that you're the only one with flying creatures
I just have some classic decks that i promised to post for Groz.
These Decks are the ones that consistently place in the t4. Most decks have small variations based on the user, but i have included the decklists from the priemer users.
I have excluded Freed Combo and MBC from the lists because they have not been contenders for a while.
Lulthyme MUC
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
2 Phyrexian Walker
4 Spire Golem
1 Looter il-Kor
//Spells//
2 Confound
4 Counterspell
1 Exclude
4 Force Spike
3 Mana Leak
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Prohibit
1 Remove Soul
4 Repulse
2 Snapback
4 Think Twice
18 Island
4 Lonely Sandbar
3 Annul
1 Confound
4 Echoing Truth
3 Envelop
2 Exclude
1 Prohibit
1 Looter il-Kor
GloinoinRG Beats
4 Basking Rootwalla
3 Horned Kavu
3 Nantuko Vigilante
4 Phantom Tiger
4 River Boa
4 Wild Mongrel
3 Llanowar Elves
//Spells//
2 Fireblast
4 Firebolt
4 Incinerate
3 Kaervek's Torch
10 Forest
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Gruul Turf
8 Mountain
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Jolrael's Centaur
2 Molten Rain
4 Stone Rain
2 Naturalize
4 Tin Street Hooligan
Briefcandle Blue Meanies
3 Drifter il-Dal
4 Looter il-Kor
3 Man-o'-War
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
2 Spiketail Drakeling
4 Spire Golem
//Spells//
2 Bonesplitter
3 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
4 Force Spike
1 Repulse
2 Think Twice
4 Unsummon
20 Island
2 Cancel
2 Coast Watcher
3 Confound
1 Tim
2 Zuran Spellcaster
3 Coral Net
2 Errant Ephemeron
Common Build Orzhov
4 Blind Hunter
4 Phyrexian Rager
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Shrieking Grotesque
3 Guardian of the Guildpact
//Spells//
4 Castigate
2 Deep Analysis
4 Faith's Fetters
4 Pillory of the Sleepless
4 Momentary Blink
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Island
1 Orzhov Basilica
7 Plains
8 Swamp
1 Azorius Chancery
4 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Duress
3 Echoing Truth
3 Innocent Blood
1 Last Gasp
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
3 Rend Flesh
Spikeboym DeepDog
4 Looter il-Kor
4 Basking Rootwalla
1 Golgari Brownscale
2 Springing Tiger
4 Werebear
4 Wild Mongrel
//Spells//
2 Deep Analysis
4 Prohibit
4 Rune Snag
4 Think Twice
4 Aether Burst
4 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Tranquil Thicket
7 Forest
8 Island
3 Echoing Truth
4 Rushing River
1 Golgari Brownscale
3 Nantuko Vigilante
4 River Boa
Common Build Armadillo Cloak
3 Llanowar Elves
4 Nantuko Vigilante
2 Phantom Nomad
4 Phantom Tiger
4 River Boa
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Guardian of the Guildpact
//Spells//
2 Vulshok Morningstar
4 Armadillo Cloak
3 Seeds of Strength
4 Faith's Fetters
7 Snow-Covered Forest
5 Snow-Covered Plains
2 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Tranquil Thicket
3 Secluded Steppe
2 Selesnya Sanctuary
4 Disenchant
4 Shelter
3 Penumbra Spider
4 Temporal Isolation
Evu Burn Range
4 Karplusan Wolverine
3 Frostling
4 Goblin Raider
4 Skirk Marauder
1 Suq'Ata Lancer
4 Oxidda Golem
3 Seal of Fire
3 Shock
2 Volcanic Hammer
4 Incinerate
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast
20 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Martyr of Ashes
2 Gorilla Shaman
4 Echoing Ruin
2 Goblin Furrier
3 Drooling Ogre
Me5794 WW Blitz
2 Benalish Calvary
4 Sidewinder Sliver
4 Plated Sliver
4 Mtenda Herder
4 Lantern Kami
4 Suntail Hawk
4 tundra Wolf
4 Boros Recruit
4 Raise the alarm
4 Fortify
4 Kjeldoran War Cry
//Lands//
18 Plains
And Finally Here's a deck that I have been toying with recently. It is Spikeboym's DeepDog with a twist.
It is really effective against most match ups and I think the only reason I have lost a few games was because I was still learning to pilot the deck. The one short coming to spike's deck is its ability to Reach and break stalemates. The Aether bursts help but sometimes they are less than optimal. The Cloaks are usually a suprise as well and it can change strategies.
Me5794 Deepdog's New Coat
4 Looter il-kor
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Werebear
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Springing Tiger
2 Deep Analysis
4 Rune Snag
4 Think Twice
3 Armadillo Cloak
4 Aether Burst
4 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Azorious Chancery
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Snow Covered Plains
7 Island
9 Forest
And as a Bonus I'm going to list a deck that won Euro Worlds. It seems to follow a similar design to Bwee's Izzet deck, but is more versitile because of card choices.
This deck has potential but is somewhat fragile.
KingRitzParlor Tricks
2 Ravenous Rats
4 Steamcore Weird
3 Izzet Chronarch
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
2 Dimir Infiltrator
//Spells//
4 Innocent Blood
3 Skred
3 Duress
3 Probe
1 Shred Memory
2 Peel from Reality
1 Terminate
1 Train of Thought
1 Death Denied
2 Dimir Signet
2 Izzet Signet
3 Dimir Aqueduct
3 Izzet Boilerworks
6 Snow-Covered Island
6 Snow-Covered Swamp
5 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Echoing Ruin
3 Condescend
2 Ravenous Rats
1 Duress
1 Skred
1 Ninja of the Deep Hours
1 Shred Memory
1 Nausea
1 Yamabushi's Storm
Have Fun and enjoy. I'll be playing TPDC tonight so I'll see you around.
[join the princes of pauper]
+1
Well, I'm game if the Princes of Pauper decide they want to invade Classic PDC tournaments. I have always been attracted to the early Saturday time slot - plus, the decks played there are often a bit more experimental, which is always fun.
I'd give it a 50% chance that I will make it to SPDC tonight. With the crazy, shifting "metagame" that is Standard Pauper, I might drag some older deck ideas (those that just rolled over and died to Orzhov) out for another spin.
I do want to start working on a "nü-Extended" deck, which includes sets from Mirrodin and later. I know the rotation isn't for a while, but since I can only play casually, it doesn't matter to me. But I'll build some Classic decks and offer my services for playtesting, if you want.
And, of course, the same goes for Standard. I think we Princes have a strong foothold in the Standard world, and I'd hate to lose that!
THURSDAY STANDARD PDC 2.01:
Thursday, February 01, 2007
WHEN and WHERE
Registration will open at 8:30 p.m. EST (GMT: 01:30 Friday) in /join spdc. The first round will begin approximately thirty minutes later.
COST and PRIZES
This event is absolutely FREE, no tickets needed just bring a deck that fits the rules below. Prizes, if any, are donated and will be awarded to the finalists. Donations are welcome.
Wizards of the Coast, Magic Online and boards administrators do not provide any support for these events. Participate/Organize at your own risk. Check our PRE FAQ for other questions and answers.
LEGAL CARDS and PROXIES
The format for this event will be Standard PDC. Cards printed as common in the following sets are legal: 9th Edition, Ravnica: City of Guilds, Guildpact, Dissension, Coldsnap, and Time Spiral. Cards printed as uncommon, rare, or timeshifted in these sets, though printed as common in an unlisted set, are not legal. The following legal commons have uncommon counterparts online which may be used as proxies:
Cremate (Invasion)
Foul Imp (7th Edition)
EVENT DETAILS and RULES
* There will be three rounds of play followed by a Top 4 playoff (Top 8 if there are more than 18 players).
* Matches will be played in the Casual Play > Anything Goes room.
* Matches must be timed for 60 minutes, must be watchable, and should have "SPDC" in the description. It is the responsibility of both players to ensure matches are set up correctly.
* If a player doesn't join their assigned match within 10 minutes of pairing announcements, their opponent will be awarded a game win. If a player doesn't join their assigned match within 20 minutes of pairing announcements, their opponent will be awarded a match win.
* The deck and sideboard used in the first round must be used for the entire event. Deviation from the deck used in the first round will result in disqualification.
* The use of illegal cards in the first round will result in a match loss and the opporunity to legalize the deck for the next round with disregard to the above rule. The use of illegal cards after the first round will result in disqualification.
* Please don't talk in other player's games unless both players agree that it is alright. Also, please don't use the tournament room for off-topic chat.
* Players in the Top 4 (or Top 8) are required to post their decklist in this thread, following the event, to encourage deck development. Season points only will be awarded after that.
* This is a PDC Ratings-enabled event. For more information on PDC Ratings, go to www.paupermagic.com and click on "Ratings."
SEASON and WORLDS CHAMPIONSHIP
This is the first event of a season with 16 tournaments. During the season players will earn 1 point for playing in each tournament and 2 points for each match win. I´ll post score updates each thread every week. At the end of the season the Top 24 scoring players will receive an invitation to play in SPDC Worlds Championship.
THIS WEEK'S PRIZES
1x Blinking Spirit foil (donated by Niabock)
2x Sudden Death (donated by Niabock)
1x Skred foil (donated by Evu)
4x Power Sink (donated by Evu)
I will have to look at classic again as I think that could be a fun format, especially if tourneys are on Saturdays, I may actually be able to play in them.
http://magic.jwc4.com/blog/index.html