you want to get 1 mesmeric orb out and either 1 alchemist or seeker of skybreak out. you tap the alchemist targetting himself and untap himself. you proceed to do this until your entire library is milled into your yard due to mesmeric orb.
the narcomoeba will come into play due to their triggered effect, and then you can dredge return saccing three narcomoebas and return sutured ghoul and you proceed to making him very big and he will have haste since dragon scales will get ontop of him and you swing for the win.
a good card to have at this point is a pact of negation. you can pact any single thread to break up your combo if you have it in your hand.
Why not Dragon Breath? That card gives haste so you can attack with the ghoul once he is in play. Ok, you can't play it from your hand, but that is not why it is in there anyway. It is the power of the deck that you can attack with a fattie on turn 3, coming out of nowhere.
Also, there is another card with casting cost 2 and transmute, but the transmute is blue: Muddle the Mixture. Maybe it is an option so you can stay more blue, but we have to see where the deck goes.
opps you're right. i keep getting dragon breath and dragon scales confused. :-p
but yaw i meant dragon breath... i just wrote in dragon scales...hehe.
I like this idea a lot, and I was thinking about it yesterday... my question is - is this 2 piece combo better than Mizzium Vault? I think it is, since you have up to 8x of one piece, and transmuters for both, and its a lot less expensive card-wise... but it seems like its harder to protect creatures and the combo in general... the Ghoul combo, even if reanimated, fears STP
You could try running only 4 transmuters and 6-7 untappers, you will still draw what you need with that amount, to fit in disruption like black discard, therapy, etc.
I also suggest 1x Krosan Reclamation in case you need to survive another turn.
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While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
I like this idea a lot, and I was thinking about it yesterday... my question is - is this 2 piece combo better than Mizzium Vault? I think it is, since you have up to 8x of one piece, and transmuters for both, and its a lot less expensive card-wise... but it seems like its harder to protect creatures and the combo in general... the Ghoul combo, even if reanimated, fears STP
You could try running only 4 transmuters and 6-7 untappers, you will still draw what you need with that amount, to fit in disruption like black discard, therapy, etc.
I also suggest 1x Krosan Reclamation in case you need to survive another turn.
there is nothing to fear if you have a pact of negation in hand.
Okay these are the changes so far. Added more search cards and more counterspells.
intuition. You can fetch a combo piece or transmuter or a pact of negation.
muddle the mixture. Gives another counter spell and another transmuter which ups the total of transmuting cards to 12.
phantasmagorian. It is needed because you might have the combo piece in your hand.
I also only need 1 dredge return, 1 ghoul, and 1 dragon breath. These all made sense because you only need 1 in the yard to go off, and you just mill yourself before going off.
A BGu dredge engine could concievably win you the game on turn 2, if done correctly and with the right cards in hand.
You don't need blue mana for the Narcomoeba. You need it for Careful Study. In a deck like this, Careful Study basically says "Dredge Grave-Troll or Stinkweed Imp to get your win conditions into your yard, then discard them." For speed, Lotus Petals, Chrome Mox, and the like can help you maximize your effects, and Cabal Therapy rids your opponent of those annoying StP. Phantasmagorian is awful; don't do that to yourself. There are many effects that will allow you to ditch your hand more effectively; Tolarian Winds is a better idea than this. Of course, Putrid Imp is a great way to start the dredge engine, plus he can be fed to flashback Therapy once you've gotten it to your yard.
Sideboard Chain of Vapor and Needles are essential; I'm not the only person who plays Leyline of the Void, and Tormod's Crypt is standard Threshold hate.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
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Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
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I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
No offence, but why bother with mebas or return? Your going to be burning most of your ghoul food the first time you bring him back, so any further resing of the big guy is going to be fairly pointless. If your going for the angry hermit route their are better options for res and the mebas are kind of pointless...
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I have a feeling AoK just totally agreed with me
Now if you choose to listen to us then I'll take time to advise you further , if not I wish you luck, but your combo is too fragile and unstable.
hey i am not here to bash your suggestions and give you validation or lack of validation for your suggestions. the dredge path isnt what my friend suggested. i already know i can do a dredge which would be in line with something like ichorid.
i have a deck that does that. i was just putting out a decklist that my friend was talking about with seeker of skybreak + mesmeric orb (which wrecks control) + moebas.
i didnt say that this was 'better' than ichorid etc.
Well my thought on Seeker + Mesmeric Orb: very powerful in Extended and gonna see play, considering the speed, ease of casting and lack of Swords to Plowshares.
In Legacy, more difficult. I suggest (since the combo is so redundant) extra slots for counters. Read: FoW and Daze as well as the pact. Easily done, and makes the deck something to be reckoned with.
Edit: Thse who want to make a dredge deck should make a new thread. Its not necessarily the better choice. (As milling 30 cards on turn one will not neccessarily get you the combo, unless you put more combo pieces in than are healthy.)
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Johnny (with a touch of Spike)..
Creator of Thoughtless Sensei and Morph Aggro
Gaymer Raccoons please My artworkz
"We've made OVER NINE THOUSAND unique cards."
- MaRo, October 8th, 2007 IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAND!!!!!
This deck realy doesn't gain a hell of a lot by droping into legacy, there's realy not much of a point considering that all the toys it exploits are legal in extended. By trying to swim in 1.5's depth the deck has to contend with a much more unfriendly meta consisting of brutal yard hate, hand rape, and, least we forget, force and it's bastard brothers. A pseudo combo like this would fair far better in the aggro dominated format of the modern extended format.
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'Lo, there do I see my father. 'Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers. 'Lo, there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning. 'Lo, they do call to me. They bid me to take my place amongst them in the halls of Valhalla. Where the brave may live forever.
I remember one of my decks a LOOONG time ago (I milled myself with cephalid illusionist + some redirecter) then used something in lines of saccing LED => Flashbacking some card, then deep analysis to get 2 more leds, repeating the same, then flashbacking recoup targeting patriarch's bidding and getting 2 hellkites and 2 kokushos from my grave to play..
Man, that was fun. Not competitive, but fun.
Now lets see what it had compared to this: Multiples of cabal therapies, ways to search for it's milling conditions faster than this (wordly tutor), potentially more explosive start, not so much cards that are dead when drawn..
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
anyhow here is my terrible stab at it:
4 shred memory
4 dimir inflitrator
4 narcomoeba
4 dread return
2 dragon breath
4 krosan cloudscraper
4 aphetto alchemist
4 seeker of skybreak
4 mesmeric orb
4 chrome mox
3 polluted delta
3 flooded strand
4 underground sea
2 tropical island
you want to get 1 mesmeric orb out and either 1 alchemist or seeker of skybreak out. you tap the alchemist targetting himself and untap himself. you proceed to do this until your entire library is milled into your yard due to mesmeric orb.
the narcomoeba will come into play due to their triggered effect, and then you can dredge return saccing three narcomoebas and return sutured ghoul and you proceed to making him very big and he will have haste since dragon scales will get ontop of him and you swing for the win.
a good card to have at this point is a pact of negation. you can pact any single thread to break up your combo if you have it in your hand.
opps you're right. i keep getting dragon breath and dragon scales confused. :-p
but yaw i meant dragon breath... i just wrote in dragon scales...hehe.
You could try running only 4 transmuters and 6-7 untappers, you will still draw what you need with that amount, to fit in disruption like black discard, therapy, etc.
I also suggest 1x Krosan Reclamation in case you need to survive another turn.
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there is nothing to fear if you have a pact of negation in hand.
4 shred memory
4 dimir inflitrator
1 phantasmagorian
3 intuition
4 narcomoeba
1 dread return
1 dragon breath
4 krosan cloudscraper
3 aphetto alchemist
3 seeker of skybreak
3 mesmeric orb
4 chrome mox
4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
4 underground sea
4 tropical island
intuition. You can fetch a combo piece or transmuter or a pact of negation.
muddle the mixture. Gives another counter spell and another transmuter which ups the total of transmuting cards to 12.
phantasmagorian. It is needed because you might have the combo piece in your hand.
I also only need 1 dredge return, 1 ghoul, and 1 dragon breath. These all made sense because you only need 1 in the yard to go off, and you just mill yourself before going off.
A BGu dredge engine could concievably win you the game on turn 2, if done correctly and with the right cards in hand.
You don't need blue mana for the Narcomoeba. You need it for Careful Study. In a deck like this, Careful Study basically says "Dredge Grave-Troll or Stinkweed Imp to get your win conditions into your yard, then discard them." For speed, Lotus Petals, Chrome Mox, and the like can help you maximize your effects, and Cabal Therapy rids your opponent of those annoying StP.
Phantasmagorian is awful; don't do that to yourself. There are many effects that will allow you to ditch your hand more effectively; Tolarian Winds is a better idea than this.
Of course, Putrid Imp is a great way to start the dredge engine, plus he can be fed to flashback Therapy once you've gotten it to your yard.
Sideboard Chain of Vapor and Needles are essential; I'm not the only person who plays Leyline of the Void, and Tormod's Crypt is standard Threshold hate.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
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Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
hey i am not here to bash your suggestions and give you validation or lack of validation for your suggestions. the dredge path isnt what my friend suggested. i already know i can do a dredge which would be in line with something like ichorid.
i have a deck that does that. i was just putting out a decklist that my friend was talking about with seeker of skybreak + mesmeric orb (which wrecks control) + moebas.
i didnt say that this was 'better' than ichorid etc.
In Legacy, more difficult. I suggest (since the combo is so redundant) extra slots for counters. Read: FoW and Daze as well as the pact. Easily done, and makes the deck something to be reckoned with.
Edit: Thse who want to make a dredge deck should make a new thread. Its not necessarily the better choice. (As milling 30 cards on turn one will not neccessarily get you the combo, unless you put more combo pieces in than are healthy.)
Creator of Thoughtless Sensei and Morph Aggro
Gaymer
Raccoons please
My artworkz
"We've made OVER NINE THOUSAND unique cards."
- MaRo, October 8th, 2007
IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAND!!!!!
4x Gemstone Mine
3x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand
2x Windswept Heath
1x Breeding Pool
1x Watery Grave
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Godless Shrine
1x Temple Garden
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Blood Crypt
1x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
1x Bogardan Hellkite
1x Terravore
1x Anger
3x Cephalid Illusionist
4x Narcomoeba
Other Spells (28)
3x Duress
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Dread Return
3x Spellshaper's Gift
4x Shuko
4x Living Wish
4x Bridge From Below
4x Careful Study
1x Cephalid Illusionist
1x Outrider en-kor
1x Harmonic Sliver
1x Cephalid Aristocrat
1x Cabal Pit
1x Barbarian Ring
1x Duress
1x Cabal Therapy
3x Pithing Needle
4x Krosan Grip
Man, that was fun. Not competitive, but fun.
Now lets see what it had compared to this: Multiples of cabal therapies, ways to search for it's milling conditions faster than this (wordly tutor), potentially more explosive start, not so much cards that are dead when drawn..
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.