A Future Sight of Vintage

[Yare]

This thread is for the discussion of my latest article, A Future Sight of Vintage. We would be grateful if you would let us know what you think, but please keep your comments on topic.

[JayC]

Enjoyed it Yar, saw some things I wasn't privi'ed to before.

Thanks!

[kicks_422]

I'd have to disagree with Virulent Sliver being the card to make Sliver decks viable. They're really only any good in multiples, and when a Sliver gets ten hits in, the opponent should already be dead by then, since 8 pump Slivers (Muscle and Sinew) ensure that.

[teh blitz]

OMFG!
Eternal Garden just came in it's flowery pants.

Remember, this is a PG-13 site. Warning issued.

[HKKID]

I just wanted to point something else about pact of negation. It triggers on your upkeep. If you play it on your turn and fail to go off, you're not nessicarily dead. It's still possible to go off on your upkeep with the "lose the game" still on the stack. That's guaranteed important for Belcher, since it gives them a second activation, or a chance to weld a belcher in from the graveyard or whatever.

[Ian Flaer]

good article.
you mentioned that Grinning Ignus didn't have an easy way to go infinate. well, I'm no vintage player but what about Aluren? you need 5 mana one of it red and two green. play Aluren then play and activate Ignus with the Red left over netting 2R, every time you do this you'll increase the colorless mana by 2 and keep the one R constant. so what's stopping that into a demon's fire or fireball, disentigrate, ETC.? I'm not expecting this to be an "OMFG that is so uber broken, let's build a deck around it" thing but I thought I'd mention it seeing how with any one land, a mox and a Black lotus you have the mana for a lethal turn 1 fireball. ok the right six cards in your opening hand winning the game when at least two of those six are restricted isn't going to change the format, I was just wondering if this was getting any attention.

I learned some things from your article. it often surprises me what vintage players think are good cards/effects. the street wraith didn't seem like that great of a deal to me and some of the other cards you mentioned I didn't think would ever have an impact, but like I said, I'm not a vintage player so I don't know.

[Lyracian]

I like Delay, and three turns is huge, especially if you delay there counter or something similar that will not do anything when it casts later.

Would have thought they could choose new targets when it resolves thought as it is a new spell?

My prefered deck is white with blue splash. So I am going to get me four of these.

[Binary]

Originally Posted by Lyracian

Would have thought they could choose new targets when it resolves thought as it is a new spell?

That's true, however in this format that's not always relevant. Using Delay on a spell that removes or bounces Darksteel Colossus, for example... if their removal spell doesn't resolve, they're not going to have three turns to live anyway.

[Lyracian]

I was thinking of including Delay mainly for stopping Wrath of God and similar. Three turns to either finish them or hold back extra creatures I draw should be enough.

Opponent then has to look at using other removal or summoning blockers who are going to die soon anyway. It is a nice Evil card.

I guess you can cycle Edge of Autumn in response to land destruction. Still not sure that is enough to make it played though.

[Lanky]

wasteland is played in most decks, and getting some benefit out of your land getting toasted is never bad, since it is such a common occurance.

[Binary]

Originally Posted by Lanky

wasteland is played in most decks, and getting some benefit out of your land getting toasted is never bad, since it is such a common occurance.

True, and that's what I had in mind when I saw this card as well. However, the anti-Strip/Waste niche is filled by Stifle/Trickbind which have many more useful applications.

[teh blitz]

for the non-vintage side... delay + teferi = always hard counter.

As for Legacy... Solidarity looks like it could use pact of negation very well, since it can help it combo out without pitching a card to FOW that might be useful. Legacy land decks just got 5 shiny new toys(edge of autumn, horizon canopy, tolaria west, dakmore salvage, glittering wish). Eggs just got some as well (tolaria west, edge of autumn, summoner's pact). I could see a dredge land being used in some braids and stax builds to act as extra crucibles(that indeed, you don't need to pay mana for, and aren't casting), to sac every turn to keep the stax engine going. That's just how I see it...

[Fatguy Poolshark]

One question how can glittering wish tutor for Fire//Ice? Is it considered multi-color? Other than that and the cost of Hide//Seek i REALLY enjoyed this article.

Thanks for the great read.

[Binary]

Yes, Fire//Ice is a multicolored card everywhere except when it's on the stack. When the game needs to find the colors of the card, it gets "red and blue" as a response, making it multicolored.

On the stack, of course, it's only the color of whichever side you chose.

[Yare]

Originally Posted by JayC

Enjoyed it Yar, saw some things I wasn't privi'ed to before.

Thanks!

I'm glad you enjoyed it. That's the whole point of the article: to give out new info.

Originally Posted by kicks_422

I'd have to disagree with Virulent Sliver being the card to make Sliver decks viable. They're really only any good in multiples, and when a Sliver gets ten hits in, the opponent should already be dead by then, since 8 pump Slivers (Muscle and Sinew) ensure that.

This may be true. Honestly, I don't see slivers becoming viable anytime soon. I just felt that at such a low casting cost, there might be potential.

Originally Posted by HKKID

I just wanted to point something else about pact of negation. It triggers on your upkeep. If you play it on your turn and fail to go off, you're not nessicarily dead. It's still possible to go off on your upkeep with the "lose the game" still on the stack. That's guaranteed important for Belcher, since it gives them a second activation, or a chance to weld a belcher in from the graveyard or whatever.

I had not thought of this usage. I'm so used to combo being either "win right now" or "I'll play Oath and win in 1/2 turns" rather than "I'll win during my upkeep." You're absolutely correct in this observation.

Originally Posted by Ian Flaer

good article.
you mentioned that Grinning Ignus didn't have an easy way to go infinate. well, I'm no vintage player but what about Aluren?...

I learned some things from your article. it often surprises me what vintage players think are good cards/effects. the street wraith didn't seem like that great of a deal to me and some of the other cards you mentioned I didn't think would ever have an impact, but like I said, I'm not a vintage player so I don't know.

I think Aluren is a little too slow for Vintage. However, this is a potential way to go infinite with that particular card. I'm glad I was able to enlighten you a little bit on how Vintage players view cards, as it can be very different.

Originally Posted by Lanky

wasteland is played in most decks, and getting some benefit out of your land getting toasted is never bad, since it is such a common occurance.

I actually didn't have land destruction in mind when I was referring to the card, but I suppose that is a very good usage (similar to something like Gush in response). That being said, again, I still am not hugely thrilled with this card.

Originally Posted by teh blitz

for the non-vintage side... delay + teferi = always hard counter.

As for Legacy...

Look for Future Sight reviews regarding other formats later this month.

Originally Posted by fatguy_poolshark

One question how can glittering wish tutor for Fire//Ice? Is it considered multi-color? Other than that and the cost of Hide//Seek i REALLY enjoyed this article.

Thanks for the great read.

Yes, you are correct about the cost of Seek, it should be not . I'll see if I can get that fixed. I'm glad you liked the article.