This deck is called Pyromancer's Swatch, or just Swatch for short.
So this is a deck I made a little while ago, initially as a joke, that ended up actually being kind of good. You can see the original thread in Decks For Critique here, if you wish.
Anyway, I and others tinkered with it for awhile, and it went from "kind of good" to "pretty good." Then just "good." Then "really good." And that's where we are today. This deck beats nearly everything in the format, and I see no reason for it to not be very competitive, at, for example, Regionals.
This deck is a mix of storm combo and actual combo, the combo itself being Grapeshot and Pyromancer's Swath. Swath allows you to win via Grapeshot with significantly lower storm counts than you otherwise would; with a single Grapeshot, a storm count of seven will deal lethal damage (21), and six will do it if they've endured even one Char, cycled Street Wraith, or untapped shockland.
The deck accomplishes this feat reliably via a high degree of redundancy, achieved through a transmute toolbox. The sets of Dimir Machinations and Shred Memory effectively allow the deck to run eight each of Seething Song, Pyromancer's Swath, and Grapeshot, along with the four Infernal Tutors, which happily duplicating anything that's needed.
There are, however, several different ways to combo out with this deck. The above plan is the simplest, but it is also very often advantageous to use two Grapeshots (not hard to acquire with this many tutors), which will allow you to go off at a very low storm count indeed. It's also occasionally helpful to play two Pyromancer's Swaths, which is somewhat mana intensive but can let you win with just them, a single Grapeshot, and any ritual. Finally, the Grinning Ignus is a one-of silver bullet that allows you to build a large storm count in a situation in which you have a lot of mana but not a lot of spells, which generally means something has gone wrong.
This is not an easy deck to play, as it involves some pretty tricky decision making and has several different paths to victory, but often only one that will work in a given game. But given practice and familiarity, this deck is very reliable and consistent, delivering turn three and four wins without the feeling of uncertainty that often accompanies storm decks, particularly in Standard. Additionally, it currently has exactly zero bad matchups in the format, and the only card that really stumps it is Angel's Grace (everything else is solved by Pact of Negation), which is very uncommonly played, and which can be recovered from by a single Grapeshot on a subsequent turn.
Testing
In order to get some formal results, I sat down on MWS for like a thousand hours and played twenty full two-out-of-three matches, recording how each game went. The long version of how it went is as follows:
Match 1: BUW Mill (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: poor opening hand (three transmutes plus i. tutor, one land), kept, fourth turn win.
Game 2: Set up successful combo turn four, stopped by Angel's Grace (??), next turn tutored for Grapeshot, opponent conceded.
Record: 1-0
Match 2: Red Deck Wins (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: textbook turn four win.
Game 2: land screwed (only two lands, one of which was Molten Slagheap), still eked out fourth turn win via Lotus Bloom.
Record: 2-0
Match 3: Red Deck Wins with Hellbent (LOSS 0-2)
Game 1: VERY land-flooded this game. lost turn six or so, before I could get a Swath sorted out.
Game 2: sided in Darkness, used it. drew Grinning Ignus a turn too late for it to matter; lost to huge Hellbent Gathan Raiders with Taste for Mayhem.
Record: 2-1
Match 4: Dredge (WIN 2-1)
Game 1: decent opening hand, won fourth turn via two Grapeshots.
Game 2: opp used Shadow of Doubt to stop my first turn Expanse (!!), which really kind of screwed me, as I ended up losing for want of the one black mana that would have provided.
Game 3: had to mull down to five, which is trouble, but Grinning Ignus saved the day. Or it would have, if I hadn't boarded it out. Whoops. Managed to come back with double Grapeshots for the win anyway, though.
Record: 3-1
Match 5: RWG Slivers (LOSS 0-2)
Game 1: attempted to combo out turn four, one red short of a win, stalled on 15 damage, could not recover.
Game 2: so mana flooded. drew land after land, never had more than five spells, and eventually had to use both of my Darknesses, making the situation even worse. I did get the Grinning Ignus out, and given one more ritual in hand I could have won with him, but it didn't happen.
Record: 3-2
Match 6: Zoo (WIN 2-1)
Game 1: Two Lotus Blooms in opening hand = win.
Game 2: He aggro'd too fast, I didn't get a Swath in time.
Game 3: Basic fourth turn win.
Record: 4-2
Match 7: Bridge (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: Got off to a slow start, still comboed out turn six.
Game 2: Ritual-heavy opening hand hand enabled fourth turn win despite mull to six and only two lands and no Lotus Bloom.
Record: 5-2
Match 8: Dralnu du Louvre (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: No rituals all game, Grinning Ignus was instrumental in pulling out the win.
Game 2: Opp. conceded.
Record: 6-2
Match 9: UB Suspend? (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: Poor mana draws early but Molten Slagheap really helped. Not able to build big storm count but won turn four via double Swaths.
Game 2: Opp. conceded.
Record: 7-2
Match 10: Zoo (WIN 2-1)
Game 1: Had a perfect turn four win set up but got hit with two Booms in a row. Drew a Lotus Bloom a turn too late to win with it.
Game 2: Turn four win via double Swath.
Game 3: Opp. conceded.
Record: 8-2
Match 11: Red Deck Wins with Gargadon? (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: Terrible early draws, heavy on Dimir Machinations and no tutors for Grapeshot, naturally drew Grapeshot and won turn five with the help of Grinning Ignus.
Game 2: Opp. conceded.
Record: 9-2
Match 12: Mono-black Control (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: Slow start, no rituals, but he was even slower. Won on turn seven via double Grapeshot.
Game 2: Standard fourth turn win.
Record: 10-2
Match 13: Gruul Aggro (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: Bad opening hand, mulled into still bad but at least playable hand. Won turn six via double Grapeshot.
Game 2: Easy turn four win from two first turn Lotus Blooms.
Record: 11-2
Match 14: GW Aggro (LOSS 1-2)
Game 1: Serious land flood. Lost his turn four due to lack of spells.
Game 2: Easy fourth turn win.
Game 3: Mulled all land hand, low mana after. Lost his turn four to random Giant Growth, would have won next turn.
Record: 11-3
Match 15: Hunted Singularity (LOSS 0-2)
Game 1: Hey look it's a zero turn Leyline and a second turn Hunted Horror. Not too cool. Couldn't get a second Grapeshot in the incredibly short timeframe I was given. Loss.
Game 2: He gets off the second turn Horror again. And a third turn Hunted Phantasm. He counters my Darkness, and I know he's got the luck of the Irish and it's too much to overcome.
Record: 11-4
Match 16: Mono-green Aggro (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: Poor mana draws, sixth turn win.
Game 2: Opp. conceded.
Record: 12-4
Match 17: Mono-black Discard (WIN 2-1)
Game 1: Strong opening hand, demolished by the time my first turn Lotus Bloom resolved and I had the mana to play any of it. Managed to pull off a win fifth turn though, just barely, with two Grapeshots.
Game 2: Couldn't get Grapeshot by turn four, hand was quickly demolished after that to the point of unusability, and kept there by a Hypnotic Specter. No way out.
Game 3: Decent starting hand, won turn six via two Swaths, could have pushed earlier but he wasn't putting pressure on me and I had an Ignorant Bliss in hand, so I waited for a really solid setup.
Record: 13-4
Match 18: Bridge (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: Opening hand was full of tutors, not a lot of mana, did manage to combo out turn five.
Game 2: First two hands each had four transmute cards in them. Third hand had the equivalent of five Grapeshots in the first seven cards. Gradually built mana and comboed out around turn five.
Record: 14-4
Match 19: Mono-green Aggro (WIN 2-1)
Game 1: Three first turn Lotus Blooms = fourth turn win.
Game 2: Missed fourth turn win by one storm (no rituals); also lacked two black mana to transmute for anything without popping Lotus Blooms. Eventually mounted storm turn for 18, but couldn't finish the job.
Game 3: The legendary third turn win :).
Record: 15-4
Match 20: Mishra-Gargadon (LOSS 1-2)
Game 1: Had to mull two unplayable hands in a row, then took a while to build. He was having just as bad draws as me though, so I managed to combo out on turn seven or so.
Game 2: Took a chance keeping a one land opening hand with some other good stuff in it. This caused early stumbling, but I was able to recover and combo out turn six. Or I would have, if he hadn't Remanded a crucial Seething Song when I was one mana short of replaying it. I lost a turn later.
Game 3: Drew nothing but land and support cards for ages. Sat turn after turn on two Pact of Negation and a Lost Hours, drawing land. Then I had to discard my hand to Mindslicer. And then I drew more land. Luck was not on my side this game.
Record: 15-5
Overall record: 15-5
The short version is that, over the course of the trial, the deck posted a 15-5 record, giving it a 75% match win rate, which is pretty impressive.
Matchups
This deck plays mostly the same regardless of what your opponent is playing, so I won't bother with individual matchups against each deck in the format. But against each archetype:
Aggro (Gruul/MGA/Boros): You should be fine racing them, but just in case, side in Darkness after game one; it can buy you an extra turn if you need it, and you shouldn't need more than one anyway.
Pure control (Dralnu): The hardest matchup, but still favorable. Pact of Negation is the key here, because they probably won't have the mana to counter more than one of your spells while you're comboing out.
Midrange/Control (Angelfire): Better than pure control (for us), and thankfully more popular these days, Pact is just as useful here, but Lost Hours becomes very relevant as well, as they're likely to only have one counterspell in hand, and Lost Hours lets you pick it off.
Combo (Project X/Dragonstorm): Again, just race them. The Persecutes in the side can really hurt Dragonstorm, but honestly, you should be able to just beat them anyway.
Ok, that's it. I'll be happy to answer any questions you have about this deck. Otherwise... go win Regionals with it ;).
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Thanks! Darkness is indeed tech, though I have to give credit to Old Man Istvan for suggesting it in the original thread. Although I've thought that Will-o'-the-Wisp, of all things, might be even better in that slot. Seems like it might just hold off attackers for just as long, longer in some cases, but who knows. I'll test it.
Also, it's occurred to me that it may be worth maindecking the Darknesses instead of Lost Hours, because it seems like aggro is more popular these days than the kinds of decks that Lost Hours is good against. That's a meta call, though.
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No Blood Crypts though? Seems to me like it makes a better play than Terramorphic Expanse maybe?
Also, I can see Extirpate totally mucking this deck up, since to play the Swath, you'll have to discard your hand which will probably include a Grapeshot. I dunno, haven't seen this deck enough to see how it works exactly, but just some thoughts.
Also, I can see Extirpate totally mucking this deck up, since to play the Swath, you'll have to discard your hand which will probably include a Grapeshot. I dunno, haven't seen this deck enough to see how it works exactly, but just some thoughts.
I believe the point is to play Grapeshot on the same turn as Swath.
Deck looks rather interesting and being a complete combo whore I may have to try it.
I just realized. Mycoloth perfectly demonstrates the devour mechanic.
Mycoloth: NOMNOMNOM on Dragon Fodder.
One turn later, 1/1 turds come out.
Quote from kalkris »
btw i did it because i could. i was bored and decided to let my little med-free spree go ahead. I am bipolar, explaining all the drama that ensued after. I have problems.
Quote from ShadowWaveInc. »
Jon Finkel can simply walk into Mordor.
"When an artist dies the world loses two lives, that of the artist and that of his unfinished work."
No Blood Crypts though? Seems to me like it makes a better play than Terramorphic Expanse maybe?
Could be. I rather like Terramorphic Expanse myself, and have found that and Sulfurous Springs to be enough mana fixing, but feel free to try whatever combination of duals you like. I'd personally say that Blood Crypt is probably just marginally better than Sulfurous Springs in this, and that both are significantly better than Graven Cairns, which makes the already tricky combo turn math even harder by forcing you to use it at the same time as your other lands and choose the right color early. Terramorphic Expanse is very good, though, and I don't think the deck-thinning aspect should be overlooked.
Anyway, use whatever combination of lands you like, but I don't think it's necessary to go dual-crazy in this deck as you basically just need one red source and the rest black anyway, and the deck doesn't really have color problems with the mana base I posted.
Also, I can see Extirpate totally mucking this deck up, since to play the Swath, you'll have to discard your hand which will probably include a Grapeshot. I dunno, haven't seen this deck enough to see how it works exactly, but just some thoughts.
D'oh, didn't catch the "discard hand at end of turn" on the swath. I thought it was an instant discard, my bad. I guess that increases the solidity of this deck, but what are its pros and cons when compared with dragonstorm?
D'oh, didn't catch the "discard hand at end of turn" on the swath. I thought it was an instant discard, my bad. I guess that increases the solidity of this deck, but what are its pros and cons when compared with dragonstorm?
Glad you asked. Here are the pros:
It will always be:
- More consistent, as you tutor for your pieces rather than hoping to draw them.
- Faster on average, as it wins turn four much more often than Dragonstorm, because you're more likely to have the hand you need.
- Less easily disrupted, because 2/3 of your tutors are uncounterable and you don't actually need much mana on your combo turn, so a countered ritual can sometimes help you.
In addition it is currently:
- A rogue deck, which means that people won't be clear on how to play against it.
- Not vulnerable to commonly played hate (specifically, anti-dragonstorm hate such as Rewind, which does nothing to us).
- Not vulnerable to particularly powerful hate in general (as noted above, Angel's Grace is one of the worst; other hate includes Seht's Tiger and Fortune Thief, as well as Ivory Mask, none of which are useful against a wide range of decks, and are therefore less likely to crop up).
I honestly can't think of any cons. In my experience, this deck is every bit as fast and explosive as Dragonstorm if not more, but far more stable. I guess, though, that Dragonstorm has one leg up on Swatch: the ability to attack the turn after they combo if they can't answer a Seht's Tiger or something. I don't think that's a significant factor, though.
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I'm glad to hear this, because I would love to see Dragonstorm replaced as top combo deck. The deck is lame and I would love to see a far more interesting combo deck (like this one for instance) rise to the top. I will need to do some testing with this deck when I get a chance.
I just realized. Mycoloth perfectly demonstrates the devour mechanic.
Mycoloth: NOMNOMNOM on Dragon Fodder.
One turn later, 1/1 turds come out.
Quote from kalkris »
btw i did it because i could. i was bored and decided to let my little med-free spree go ahead. I am bipolar, explaining all the drama that ensued after. I have problems.
Quote from ShadowWaveInc. »
Jon Finkel can simply walk into Mordor.
"When an artist dies the world loses two lives, that of the artist and that of his unfinished work."
Have you thought about running plain old shock over the Darknesses in the sideboard? Shock can take out an early beater, which often will save you about as much damage as a Darkness would over the course of the game, I'd think. Also, when you're comboing out, Shock gives you not just an extra spell but also 4 damage (via swath), making your combo blow out a good deal faster.
Well I like the idea of it so I made it on MWS and heres how it went:
Mono Red Beatz
Game 1:
He lays out some early beats with rusalka and frenzied goblin, he gets me down to ten, then I go off turn five with the help of two rites and an infernal tutor.
game 2: He gets me down to 3 with burn spells and a goblin, and unfortunately I'm mana screwed. I did have a slag heap though, and was able to just go off turn four with the help of a top decked grapeshot.
U/G/W mana into big guys.
Game 1:
Mull to five >< and get stuck on one land for a bit. He starts poking me with an oracle, then follows up with a wood elves, at this point I had 2x rite 2x song, an ingus, grapeshot, and tutor. I had a bloom suspended, and he started chucking out tokens with ghazi. When bloom unsuspended, I used the rituals in my hand to make a huge storm count and wipe his team. However, I couldn't recover afterwards.:-/
Game 2:
I keep a better hand of 7 with a few rituals, a bloom, swath, grapeshot, and pact of negation. He plinks out his little oracles and makes a hierarch. That was his last turn.
Game 3:
I keep a standard hand with a bloom, land, some tutors, and two grapeshot. I wait until turn two to suspend my bloom so that I tutor for another bloom. He plays seed born muse and 2x quagnoth early thanks to mana guys. During me comboing off, he tries to chord for a snake, which gets pacted, giving me enough storm to get a nice overkill.
Satanic Sligh
Game 1: I suspend two lotus blooms turn 1. The other cards in my hand on turn three are seething song, grapeshot, and swath. Turn four win, eeeeaaaasssyyy.
Game 2: I keep a 1 land hand with 2 rites, a song, a swath, and 2 grapeshots. I topdecked a land like a beast, and got a turn two win. I'm really liking the performance of this deck. However, the games I lost were mostly due to mana screw, so I'm wondering if something could be cut for 1-2 more land.
Well it's 4 am now so I thinks I should be heading off to bed.
P.S. I reallllly like this deck.
Edit: By the way, I used the exact list that's on the first page.
I wouldn't worry about meeting a higher storm count. Rift Bolt is very tricky, timing-wise, and Wild Cantor doesn't accomplish anything aside from raising the storm count. It's better in general to go for the second Grapeshot and go off with a low storm count, because that's still more consistent than getting a storm count of seven, even if you are packing extra storm enablers like Wild Cantor.
I kind of like wurst12's Shock idea, but I think I'll stick with Darkness, because Shock is only effective if you use it as soon as possible, and really in this deck you want to wait to the last minute to use spells on their turn, because they could help you raise your storm count if needed.
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After goldfishing 20 games, this deck is definetly not as fast as Dragonstorm. I was averaging turn 6 kills, some turn 5 kills, and two turn 4 kills. I also fizzled/couldn't combo past turn 7 pretty often :/ With the exact same list, and I'm pretty sure all of my mulligans were correct, as I'm familiar with the deck (I goldfished builds in the other thread).
Also, Pact of Negation is really not enough to save you against Dralnu. By turn 4/5/6, they most defininetly have more than 4 lands untapped, which allows for any combination of 2cc counters (Remand, Delay, Mana Leak, or Snag), which is more likely to happen than you getting 2 Pacts.
After goldfishing 20 games, this deck is definetly not as fast as Dragonstorm. I was averaging turn 6 kills, some turn 5 kills, and two turn 4 kills. I also fizzled/couldn't combo past turn 7 pretty often :/ With the exact same list, and I'm pretty sure all of my mulligans were correct, as I'm familiar with the deck (I goldfished builds in the other thread).
Also, Pact of Negation is really not enough to save you against Dralnu. By turn 4/5/6, they most defininetly have more than 4 lands untapped, which allows for any combination of 2cc counters (Remand, Delay, Mana Leak, or Snag), which is more likely to happen than you getting 2 Pacts.
I echo this statement. This deck is too slow to race dstorm. plus they have remand and gigadrowse as disruption, while you don't have that luxury. Also the 4 Pact of Negation aren't nearly enough to make Dralnu a favorable match-up.
If the extent of your testing was conducted on mws, then I just have to "lol" at the claim of this beating every deck in the format.
I echo this statement. This deck is too slow to race dstorm. plus they have remand and gigadrowse as disruption, while you don't have that luxury. Also the 4 Pact of Negation aren't nearly enough to make Dralnu a favorable match-up.
If you're averaging turn six, you're not playing the deck correctly. Which is fine, and all; like I said, this is a difficult deck to play, and it takes a good amount of practice to really get the hang of it and play it to its potential. I've played it in maybe four hundred games by now, and I still make the odd mistake now and again.
However, I don't think it makes sense to evaluate a matchup based on how the deck fares in the hands of someone who isn't playing it correctly. I can tell you this: I pilot this deck to a turn four win more often than not. That is most assuredly fast enough to race Dragonstorm.
If the extent of your testing was conducted on mws, then I just have to "lol" at the claim of this beating every deck in the format.
Ah, the old "LOLMWS" critique. Fair enough. Then perhaps you'd like to expound upon what matchups you've found to be poor in your epic rounds of testing?
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If you're averaging turn six, you're not playing the deck correctly. Which is fine, and all; like I said, this is a difficult deck to play, and it takes a good amount of practice to really get the hang of it and play it to its potential. I've played it in maybe four hundred games by now, and I still make the odd mistake now and again.
However, I don't think it makes sense to evaluate a matchup based on how the deck fares in the hands of someone who isn't playing it correctly. I can tell you this: I pilot this deck to a turn four win more often than not. That is most assuredly fast enough to race Dragonstorm.
The idea of this averaging a turn 4 kill isn't mathematically correct. You don't have that all that much tutoring so it's kind of unlikely that you'll be able to go turn 3 transmute something for something, then on the next turn have the swath and the grapeshot and let's face it, probably the grinning ignus required to go off. Assuming you transmute twice than you kill on turn 5. This is without really disrupting the opponent much while leaving yourself open to disruption. Pact of negation doesn't really do much if you are beign castigated or persecuted.
Ah, the old "LOLMWS" critique. Fair enough. Then perhaps you'd like to expound upon what matchups you've found to be poor in your epic rounds of testing?
Are you saying that I'm wrong to cirtique mws? The fact that you played multiple sliver decks and only seven "on radar" decks says lengths. Also I severely doubt the pilots on mws are capable of playing harder decks like Dralnu properly. The vast majority of players at regionals take the tournament seriously and will be much better than your average, even good mws players.
If you replace "testing" with "reasoning" then I beleive that dstorm is a hard match-up, gruul couldn't be more than 50/50 maybe worse, Dralnu will usually be able to outmaneuver you, and Solar Flare can beat you with one persecute (all your business spells are red.). The deck should be good against Angelfire and Tron though.
Edit: Fix your manabase. Graven Cairns is a 4 of in every RB deck's manabse. May even be better badlands.
Buddy, I believe that the deck may make a prescence but your testing is either against morons or you are a complete lucksack. You said :" Match 18: Bridge (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: Opening hand was full of tutors, not a lot of mana, did manage to combo out turn five.
Game 2: First two hands each had four transmute cards in them. Third hand had the equivalent of five Grapeshots in the first seven cards. Gradually built mana and comboed out around turn five.
Record: 14-4" Bridge, if played by a competent player should almost always win by or around turn 4 even though you have a "ton" of disruption to throw at them. Also, "
Match 7: Bridge (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: Got off to a slow start, still comboed out turn six." Should NEVER happen. I believe that the deck has potential but as for beating the whole format, and being the best deck to play, I am almost certain you are incorrect. I could see you going 15-5 or whatever you had but back in the day i went 26-2 with U/W skies. It is a good idea but not nearly as fast or as consistent as d. storm.
I also don't think you can reasonably say that you win a match on MWS where the opponent doesn't stay for game two. A match is 1 game preboard and 1-2 games postboard. Just because you win game one doesn't mean you win the match...
Your testing is pretty much all bogus, and I don't see any justification at ALL for this being in the competitive forum. It's probably not even in the top three combo decks in the format...
The idea of this averaging a turn 4 kill isn't mathematically correct. You don't have that all that much tutoring so it's kind of unlikely that you'll be able to go turn 3 transmute something for something, then on the next turn have the swath and the grapeshot and let's face it, probably the grinning ignus required to go off. Assuming you transmute twice than you kill on turn 5. This is without really disrupting the opponent much while leaving yourself open to disruption. Pact of negation doesn't really do much if you are beign castigated or persecuted.
Are you saying that I'm wrong to cirtique mws? The fact that you played multiple sliver decks and only seven "on radar" decks says lengths. Also I severely doubt the pilots on mws are capable of playing harder decks like Dralnu properly. The vast majority of players at regionals take the tournament seriously and will be much better than your average, even good mws players.
If you replace "testing" with "reasoning" then I beleive that dstorm is a hard match-up, gruul couldn't be more than 50/50 maybe worse, Dralnu will usually be able to outmaneuver you, and Solar Flare can beat you with one persecute (all your business spells are red.). The deck should be good against Angelfire and Tron though.
Edit: Fix your manabase. Graven Cairns is a 4 of in every RB deck's manabse. May even be better badlands.
Ok, noted. Every single thing you've said in this post is flatly incorrect, which you'd know if you bothered to play this deck rather than just look at the list and react. Thanks for your input, but I don't need any more of it if it's going to be pure conjecture.
Quote from wmagzoo7 »
Should NEVER happen. I believe that the deck has potential but as for beating the whole format, and being the best deck to play, I am almost certain you are incorrect.
What can I say, Bridge sucks. I never said this was the best deck in the format or whatever, don't tar me with that. What I said was that it doesn't have any bad matchups, and wins at more or less the same rate regardless of what deck it is played against.
Quote from esternaefil »
I also don't think you can reasonably say that you win a match on MWS where the opponent doesn't stay for game two. A match is 1 game preboard and 1-2 games postboard. Just because you win game one doesn't mean you win the match...
Right, I know what a match is, thanks. I didn't count disconnects as wins; the concessions listed are people saying "I can't win against this" or "I concede."
Quote from Infinitium »
Sweet deck. How's your U/x game postboard? Trickbind + anything to stop Lost Hours looks like game (sure you can pact their counter, but the odds of having both in hand + enough acceleration to cast Hours the turn you go off without them having 4 mana and 2 counters in hand already seems slim).
Hmm seems this deck has come under a lot of criticism since it was posted.
At this stage, I believe its quite impossible to say whether this deck is really great or really bad, in theory it looks either good or bad depending on your viewpoint and meta, but in practice its an entirely different thing. The only way to really grade this deck as Tier 1 or whatever would be to playtest it extensively and also watch the deck in the hands of a master play against the "it" decks of the moment.
At this point, I believe neither has been done, so only time will tell this deck's potential, and conjecture followed by criticism without heavy playtesting is pointless
Well, ty for posting this. I was actually planning to do it myself rather soon, once i got a few more games in. ANyways, my current list thats beating the living **** out of everything i play:
This deck is called Pyromancer's Swatch, or just Swatch for short.
So this is a deck I made a little while ago, initially as a joke, that ended up actually being kind of good. You can see the original thread in Decks For Critique here, if you wish.
Anyway, I and others tinkered with it for awhile, and it went from "kind of good" to "pretty good." Then just "good." Then "really good." And that's where we are today. This deck beats nearly everything in the format, and I see no reason for it to not be very competitive, at, for example, Regionals.
My current list:
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Molten Slagheap
4 Mountain
5 Swamp
Creatures
1 Grinning Ignus
Combo Spells and Rituals
4 Grapeshot
4 Pyromancer's Swath
4 Rite of Flame
4 Seething Song
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Shred Memory
4 Dimir Machinations
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Pact of Negation
3 Lost Hours
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Ignorant Bliss
4 Darkness
2 Persecute
1 Molten Disaster
How the deck works
The deck accomplishes this feat reliably via a high degree of redundancy, achieved through a transmute toolbox. The sets of Dimir Machinations and Shred Memory effectively allow the deck to run eight each of Seething Song, Pyromancer's Swath, and Grapeshot, along with the four Infernal Tutors, which happily duplicating anything that's needed.
There are, however, several different ways to combo out with this deck. The above plan is the simplest, but it is also very often advantageous to use two Grapeshots (not hard to acquire with this many tutors), which will allow you to go off at a very low storm count indeed. It's also occasionally helpful to play two Pyromancer's Swaths, which is somewhat mana intensive but can let you win with just them, a single Grapeshot, and any ritual. Finally, the Grinning Ignus is a one-of silver bullet that allows you to build a large storm count in a situation in which you have a lot of mana but not a lot of spells, which generally means something has gone wrong.
This is not an easy deck to play, as it involves some pretty tricky decision making and has several different paths to victory, but often only one that will work in a given game. But given practice and familiarity, this deck is very reliable and consistent, delivering turn three and four wins without the feeling of uncertainty that often accompanies storm decks, particularly in Standard. Additionally, it currently has exactly zero bad matchups in the format, and the only card that really stumps it is Angel's Grace (everything else is solved by Pact of Negation), which is very uncommonly played, and which can be recovered from by a single Grapeshot on a subsequent turn.
Testing
In order to get some formal results, I sat down on MWS for like a thousand hours and played twenty full two-out-of-three matches, recording how each game went. The long version of how it went is as follows:
Game 1: poor opening hand (three transmutes plus i. tutor, one land), kept, fourth turn win.
Game 2: Set up successful combo turn four, stopped by Angel's Grace (??), next turn tutored for Grapeshot, opponent conceded.
Record: 1-0
Match 2: Red Deck Wins (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: textbook turn four win.
Game 2: land screwed (only two lands, one of which was Molten Slagheap), still eked out fourth turn win via Lotus Bloom.
Record: 2-0
Match 3: Red Deck Wins with Hellbent (LOSS 0-2)
Game 1: VERY land-flooded this game. lost turn six or so, before I could get a Swath sorted out.
Game 2: sided in Darkness, used it. drew Grinning Ignus a turn too late for it to matter; lost to huge Hellbent Gathan Raiders with Taste for Mayhem.
Record: 2-1
Match 4: Dredge (WIN 2-1)
Game 1: decent opening hand, won fourth turn via two Grapeshots.
Game 2: opp used Shadow of Doubt to stop my first turn Expanse (!!), which really kind of screwed me, as I ended up losing for want of the one black mana that would have provided.
Game 3: had to mull down to five, which is trouble, but Grinning Ignus saved the day. Or it would have, if I hadn't boarded it out. Whoops. Managed to come back with double Grapeshots for the win anyway, though.
Record: 3-1
Match 5: RWG Slivers (LOSS 0-2)
Game 1: attempted to combo out turn four, one red short of a win, stalled on 15 damage, could not recover.
Game 2: so mana flooded. drew land after land, never had more than five spells, and eventually had to use both of my Darknesses, making the situation even worse. I did get the Grinning Ignus out, and given one more ritual in hand I could have won with him, but it didn't happen.
Record: 3-2
Match 6: Zoo (WIN 2-1)
Game 1: Two Lotus Blooms in opening hand = win.
Game 2: He aggro'd too fast, I didn't get a Swath in time.
Game 3: Basic fourth turn win.
Record: 4-2
Match 7: Bridge (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: Got off to a slow start, still comboed out turn six.
Game 2: Ritual-heavy opening hand hand enabled fourth turn win despite mull to six and only two lands and no Lotus Bloom.
Record: 5-2
Match 8: Dralnu du Louvre (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: No rituals all game, Grinning Ignus was instrumental in pulling out the win.
Game 2: Opp. conceded.
Record: 6-2
Match 9: UB Suspend? (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: Poor mana draws early but Molten Slagheap really helped. Not able to build big storm count but won turn four via double Swaths.
Game 2: Opp. conceded.
Record: 7-2
Match 10: Zoo (WIN 2-1)
Game 1: Had a perfect turn four win set up but got hit with two Booms in a row. Drew a Lotus Bloom a turn too late to win with it.
Game 2: Turn four win via double Swath.
Game 3: Opp. conceded.
Record: 8-2
Match 11: Red Deck Wins with Gargadon? (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: Terrible early draws, heavy on Dimir Machinations and no tutors for Grapeshot, naturally drew Grapeshot and won turn five with the help of Grinning Ignus.
Game 2: Opp. conceded.
Record: 9-2
Match 12: Mono-black Control (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: Slow start, no rituals, but he was even slower. Won on turn seven via double Grapeshot.
Game 2: Standard fourth turn win.
Record: 10-2
Match 13: Gruul Aggro (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: Bad opening hand, mulled into still bad but at least playable hand. Won turn six via double Grapeshot.
Game 2: Easy turn four win from two first turn Lotus Blooms.
Record: 11-2
Match 14: GW Aggro (LOSS 1-2)
Game 1: Serious land flood. Lost his turn four due to lack of spells.
Game 2: Easy fourth turn win.
Game 3: Mulled all land hand, low mana after. Lost his turn four to random Giant Growth, would have won next turn.
Record: 11-3
Match 15: Hunted Singularity (LOSS 0-2)
Game 1: Hey look it's a zero turn Leyline and a second turn Hunted Horror. Not too cool. Couldn't get a second Grapeshot in the incredibly short timeframe I was given. Loss.
Game 2: He gets off the second turn Horror again. And a third turn Hunted Phantasm. He counters my Darkness, and I know he's got the luck of the Irish and it's too much to overcome.
Record: 11-4
Match 16: Mono-green Aggro (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: Poor mana draws, sixth turn win.
Game 2: Opp. conceded.
Record: 12-4
Match 17: Mono-black Discard (WIN 2-1)
Game 1: Strong opening hand, demolished by the time my first turn Lotus Bloom resolved and I had the mana to play any of it. Managed to pull off a win fifth turn though, just barely, with two Grapeshots.
Game 2: Couldn't get Grapeshot by turn four, hand was quickly demolished after that to the point of unusability, and kept there by a Hypnotic Specter. No way out.
Game 3: Decent starting hand, won turn six via two Swaths, could have pushed earlier but he wasn't putting pressure on me and I had an Ignorant Bliss in hand, so I waited for a really solid setup.
Record: 13-4
Match 18: Bridge (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: Opening hand was full of tutors, not a lot of mana, did manage to combo out turn five.
Game 2: First two hands each had four transmute cards in them. Third hand had the equivalent of five Grapeshots in the first seven cards. Gradually built mana and comboed out around turn five.
Record: 14-4
Match 19: Mono-green Aggro (WIN 2-1)
Game 1: Three first turn Lotus Blooms = fourth turn win.
Game 2: Missed fourth turn win by one storm (no rituals); also lacked two black mana to transmute for anything without popping Lotus Blooms. Eventually mounted storm turn for 18, but couldn't finish the job.
Game 3: The legendary third turn win :).
Record: 15-4
Match 20: Mishra-Gargadon (LOSS 1-2)
Game 1: Had to mull two unplayable hands in a row, then took a while to build. He was having just as bad draws as me though, so I managed to combo out on turn seven or so.
Game 2: Took a chance keeping a one land opening hand with some other good stuff in it. This caused early stumbling, but I was able to recover and combo out turn six. Or I would have, if he hadn't Remanded a crucial Seething Song when I was one mana short of replaying it. I lost a turn later.
Game 3: Drew nothing but land and support cards for ages. Sat turn after turn on two Pact of Negation and a Lost Hours, drawing land. Then I had to discard my hand to Mindslicer. And then I drew more land. Luck was not on my side this game.
Record: 15-5
Overall record: 15-5
The short version is that, over the course of the trial, the deck posted a 15-5 record, giving it a 75% match win rate, which is pretty impressive.
Matchups
This deck plays mostly the same regardless of what your opponent is playing, so I won't bother with individual matchups against each deck in the format. But against each archetype:
Pure control (Dralnu): The hardest matchup, but still favorable. Pact of Negation is the key here, because they probably won't have the mana to counter more than one of your spells while you're comboing out.
Midrange/Control (Angelfire): Better than pure control (for us), and thankfully more popular these days, Pact is just as useful here, but Lost Hours becomes very relevant as well, as they're likely to only have one counterspell in hand, and Lost Hours lets you pick it off.
Combo (Project X/Dragonstorm): Again, just race them. The Persecutes in the side can really hurt Dragonstorm, but honestly, you should be able to just beat them anyway.
Ok, that's it. I'll be happy to answer any questions you have about this deck. Otherwise... go win Regionals with it ;).
Also, it's occurred to me that it may be worth maindecking the Darknesses instead of Lost Hours, because it seems like aggro is more popular these days than the kinds of decks that Lost Hours is good against. That's a meta call, though.
No Blood Crypts though? Seems to me like it makes a better play than Terramorphic Expanse maybe?
Also, I can see Extirpate totally mucking this deck up, since to play the Swath, you'll have to discard your hand which will probably include a Grapeshot. I dunno, haven't seen this deck enough to see how it works exactly, but just some thoughts.
I believe the point is to play Grapeshot on the same turn as Swath.
Deck looks rather interesting and being a complete combo whore I may have to try it.
I'm not sold on this being better than Dragonstorm just yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if it really is. Nice deck.
EDIT: hrmm, Sarnathed...
Thanks to R&Doom at Ye Olde Sig and Avatar Shoppe for resizing a painting by Stanley Donwood
Could be. I rather like Terramorphic Expanse myself, and have found that and Sulfurous Springs to be enough mana fixing, but feel free to try whatever combination of duals you like. I'd personally say that Blood Crypt is probably just marginally better than Sulfurous Springs in this, and that both are significantly better than Graven Cairns, which makes the already tricky combo turn math even harder by forcing you to use it at the same time as your other lands and choose the right color early. Terramorphic Expanse is very good, though, and I don't think the deck-thinning aspect should be overlooked.
Anyway, use whatever combination of lands you like, but I don't think it's necessary to go dual-crazy in this deck as you basically just need one red source and the rest black anyway, and the deck doesn't really have color problems with the mana base I posted.
Yawgmoth Demon is correct; Pyromancer's Swath is played immediately before Grapeshot, and should never be in play at the end of any of your turns.
Glad you asked. Here are the pros:
It will always be:
- More consistent, as you tutor for your pieces rather than hoping to draw them.
- Faster on average, as it wins turn four much more often than Dragonstorm, because you're more likely to have the hand you need.
- Less easily disrupted, because 2/3 of your tutors are uncounterable and you don't actually need much mana on your combo turn, so a countered ritual can sometimes help you.
In addition it is currently:
- A rogue deck, which means that people won't be clear on how to play against it.
- Not vulnerable to commonly played hate (specifically, anti-dragonstorm hate such as Rewind, which does nothing to us).
- Not vulnerable to particularly powerful hate in general (as noted above, Angel's Grace is one of the worst; other hate includes Seht's Tiger and Fortune Thief, as well as Ivory Mask, none of which are useful against a wide range of decks, and are therefore less likely to crop up).
I honestly can't think of any cons. In my experience, this deck is every bit as fast and explosive as Dragonstorm if not more, but far more stable. I guess, though, that Dragonstorm has one leg up on Swatch: the ability to attack the turn after they combo if they can't answer a Seht's Tiger or something. I don't think that's a significant factor, though.
btw, wat do u think of the FS BR land?
RGRG Big ManaRG
UB Classical Faeries UB
Mono Red Beatz
Game 1:
He lays out some early beats with rusalka and frenzied goblin, he gets me down to ten, then I go off turn five with the help of two rites and an infernal tutor.
game 2: He gets me down to 3 with burn spells and a goblin, and unfortunately I'm mana screwed. I did have a slag heap though, and was able to just go off turn four with the help of a top decked grapeshot.
U/G/W mana into big guys.
Game 1:
Mull to five >< and get stuck on one land for a bit. He starts poking me with an oracle, then follows up with a wood elves, at this point I had 2x rite 2x song, an ingus, grapeshot, and tutor. I had a bloom suspended, and he started chucking out tokens with ghazi. When bloom unsuspended, I used the rituals in my hand to make a huge storm count and wipe his team. However, I couldn't recover afterwards.:-/
Game 2:
I keep a better hand of 7 with a few rituals, a bloom, swath, grapeshot, and pact of negation. He plinks out his little oracles and makes a hierarch. That was his last turn.
Game 3:
I keep a standard hand with a bloom, land, some tutors, and two grapeshot. I wait until turn two to suspend my bloom so that I tutor for another bloom. He plays seed born muse and 2x quagnoth early thanks to mana guys. During me comboing off, he tries to chord for a snake, which gets pacted, giving me enough storm to get a nice overkill.
Satanic Sligh
Game 1: I suspend two lotus blooms turn 1. The other cards in my hand on turn three are seething song, grapeshot, and swath. Turn four win, eeeeaaaasssyyy.
Game 2: I keep a 1 land hand with 2 rites, a song, a swath, and 2 grapeshots. I topdecked a land like a beast, and got a turn two win. I'm really liking the performance of this deck. However, the games I lost were mostly due to mana screw, so I'm wondering if something could be cut for 1-2 more land.
Well it's 4 am now so I thinks I should be heading off to bed.
P.S. I reallllly like this deck.
Edit: By the way, I used the exact list that's on the first page.
I kind of like wurst12's Shock idea, but I think I'll stick with Darkness, because Shock is only effective if you use it as soon as possible, and really in this deck you want to wait to the last minute to use spells on their turn, because they could help you raise your storm count if needed.
Also, Pact of Negation is really not enough to save you against Dralnu. By turn 4/5/6, they most defininetly have more than 4 lands untapped, which allows for any combination of 2cc counters (Remand, Delay, Mana Leak, or Snag), which is more likely to happen than you getting 2 Pacts.
I echo this statement. This deck is too slow to race dstorm. plus they have remand and gigadrowse as disruption, while you don't have that luxury. Also the 4 Pact of Negation aren't nearly enough to make Dralnu a favorable match-up.
If the extent of your testing was conducted on mws, then I just have to "lol" at the claim of this beating every deck in the format.
And this deck is kinda cheap too!
If you're averaging turn six, you're not playing the deck correctly. Which is fine, and all; like I said, this is a difficult deck to play, and it takes a good amount of practice to really get the hang of it and play it to its potential. I've played it in maybe four hundred games by now, and I still make the odd mistake now and again.
However, I don't think it makes sense to evaluate a matchup based on how the deck fares in the hands of someone who isn't playing it correctly. I can tell you this: I pilot this deck to a turn four win more often than not. That is most assuredly fast enough to race Dragonstorm.
Ah, the old "LOLMWS" critique. Fair enough. Then perhaps you'd like to expound upon what matchups you've found to be poor in your epic rounds of testing?
The idea of this averaging a turn 4 kill isn't mathematically correct. You don't have that all that much tutoring so it's kind of unlikely that you'll be able to go turn 3 transmute something for something, then on the next turn have the swath and the grapeshot and let's face it, probably the grinning ignus required to go off. Assuming you transmute twice than you kill on turn 5. This is without really disrupting the opponent much while leaving yourself open to disruption. Pact of negation doesn't really do much if you are beign castigated or persecuted.
Are you saying that I'm wrong to cirtique mws? The fact that you played multiple sliver decks and only seven "on radar" decks says lengths. Also I severely doubt the pilots on mws are capable of playing harder decks like Dralnu properly. The vast majority of players at regionals take the tournament seriously and will be much better than your average, even good mws players.
If you replace "testing" with "reasoning" then I beleive that dstorm is a hard match-up, gruul couldn't be more than 50/50 maybe worse, Dralnu will usually be able to outmaneuver you, and Solar Flare can beat you with one persecute (all your business spells are red.). The deck should be good against Angelfire and Tron though.
Edit: Fix your manabase. Graven Cairns is a 4 of in every RB deck's manabse. May even be better badlands.
Game 1: Opening hand was full of tutors, not a lot of mana, did manage to combo out turn five.
Game 2: First two hands each had four transmute cards in them. Third hand had the equivalent of five Grapeshots in the first seven cards. Gradually built mana and comboed out around turn five.
Record: 14-4" Bridge, if played by a competent player should almost always win by or around turn 4 even though you have a "ton" of disruption to throw at them. Also, "
Match 7: Bridge (WIN 2-0)
Game 1: Got off to a slow start, still comboed out turn six." Should NEVER happen. I believe that the deck has potential but as for beating the whole format, and being the best deck to play, I am almost certain you are incorrect. I could see you going 15-5 or whatever you had but back in the day i went 26-2 with U/W skies. It is a good idea but not nearly as fast or as consistent as d. storm.
Your testing is pretty much all bogus, and I don't see any justification at ALL for this being in the competitive forum. It's probably not even in the top three combo decks in the format...
Ok, noted. Every single thing you've said in this post is flatly incorrect, which you'd know if you bothered to play this deck rather than just look at the list and react. Thanks for your input, but I don't need any more of it if it's going to be pure conjecture.
What can I say, Bridge sucks. I never said this was the best deck in the format or whatever, don't tar me with that. What I said was that it doesn't have any bad matchups, and wins at more or less the same rate regardless of what deck it is played against.
Right, I know what a match is, thanks. I didn't count disconnects as wins; the concessions listed are people saying "I can't win against this" or "I concede."
Double Grapeshot is tech. If your plan is:
Seething Song, Infernal Tutor, Pyromancer's Swath, Grapeshot, Grapeshot = 27
And they Trickbind your first Grapeshot, you end up with:
Seething Song, Infernal Tutor, Pyromancer's Swath, Grapeshot, Trickbind, Grapeshot = 21
Still a kill.
At this stage, I believe its quite impossible to say whether this deck is really great or really bad, in theory it looks either good or bad depending on your viewpoint and meta, but in practice its an entirely different thing. The only way to really grade this deck as Tier 1 or whatever would be to playtest it extensively and also watch the deck in the hands of a master play against the "it" decks of the moment.
At this point, I believe neither has been done, so only time will tell this deck's potential, and conjecture followed by criticism without heavy playtesting is pointless
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
5 Swamp
5 Mountain
2 Terramorphic Expanse
Spells-35
4 Grapeshot
4 Pyromancers Swath
4 Seething Song
4 Rite of Flame
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Pact of Negation
4 Dimir Machinations
3 Shred Memory
4 Infernal Tutor
3 Grinning Ignus
2 Dark COnfidant
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Ignorant Bliss
3 Damnation
4 Lost Hours
Yah, its a crappy sideboard. I know
The name comes from grape part of grapeshot, since grape=wine, and pyromancers=burning. Result? Burning Wine
Sig and Avvy by Mr. Stuff
Looking for people to test T2 with me on MWS, Pacific or Mountain time preffered