I've been playing this deck with incredible success lately, and while I qualified for MSS several months ago, I've heard that the deck is set to die with 10th, because of a ruling change.
Has anyone heard the same thing? Because I'd like to start testing other decks if that's the case.
Is there a particular reason why there is three essence warden and one soul warden? Is that to prevent extirpate?
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My Decks
Type 2-
Mono B Zombie Control Aggro BR Gargadon/gravepact suicide (In construction)
Extended- UBG Raffinity WUG Slide/Blink
Casual- BWG Multiplayer Control UB Peasant Madness Aggro RWG Sliver Zoo
I've heard it's a timing change or something along those lines... Like you won't be able to react to Crypt Champion's ability anymore thus preventing Saffi's shield.
Although this is all hearsay, I can say that I heard it from a friend who heard it at the Indianopolis Regionals.
I doubt that there'll be anything to prevent the combo from happening. It's fairly straigforward in the way it's worded.
The Soul Warden doesn't need to be in the deck and should be replaced by another creature of choice, Ghost Council, Teneb, etc. If they have you in a position where they're wasting an Extirpate on any Warden you're probably winning, any opponent worth his salt will hold that extirpate for the Crypt Champion, which doesn't have a handy replacement.
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If I do good - I feel good. If I do bad -I feel bad. That's my religion.
Hey guys, I've got a question. How does one stop the Saffi/Champion combo with a targeted removal spell correctly? I'd like to know the legal way to do this so I can defend myself if people try to disrupt the combo incorrectly.
The only way the timing could be changed is if they no longer used the stack for the sacrifice ability, and instead it just put it into the graveyard immediately.
If they do that, i'm going to be very angry that wizards went out of it's way to kill a deck that was regarded by a large part of the magic community and experts as trash pre-regionals. Putting alot of work into something to make it good and then have it taken away will be very frustrating.
if u have a removal in hand that can deal with a creature with max toughnes 3 (helix, last gasp, mortify, putrefy, sudden death etc..) you can kill the creature that makes the combo functional (esence warden/teysa) and there is no point in the whole combo...
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:mad1:Apprentice of Lavamancy:mad1:
playing in standard: Mono Black Control (from hell):evil:
PS: just came to realise: if the opponent has a spike feeder or bottle gnomes in his graveyard, we're screwed...They go infinite as well then lol... tech to solve that?
Tormod's crypt would clean that up, along with having a nice dredge defence. Also, sudden shock. Also, what I've used rather than gaining life is comboing with bitter ordeal, allowing me to remove their entire library from the game.
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My Decks
Type 2-
Mono B Zombie Control Aggro BR Gargadon/gravepact suicide (In construction)
Extended- UBG Raffinity WUG Slide/Blink
Casual- BWG Multiplayer Control UB Peasant Madness Aggro RWG Sliver Zoo
Hey guys, I've got a question. How does one stop the Saffi/Champion combo with a targeted removal spell correctly? I'd like to know the legal way to do this so I can defend myself if people try to disrupt the combo incorrectly.
The way to do this is that you shoot spot removal at Saffi in response to the Crypt Champion's sacrifice trigger. In game terms...
Crypt Champion comes into play (For simplicity, let's say it's from the yard due to Saffi, and this is the beginning of the loop)
Crypt Champion's trigger activates, bringing back Saffi and a creature of your choice
Game recognizes that no red was payed for the Champion, sacrifice trigger is put on the stack -------> (!) This is when you aim your removal at Saffi. I'll show the continued resolution.
Spot removal takes Saffi out; Saffi hits the graveyard
Crypt Champion's sacrifice trigger resolves, putting it in the graveyard
End result:
You: -1 card, 2 creatures with power 2 or less from your graveyard
Them: Saffi and Crypt Champion in the graveyard, 1 creature with power 2 or less from their yard, the fruits of 1 iteration of the combo (probably something like 3 life)
You're reading the wrong rule, however. That's sacrifice as part of a cost, such as sacrificing Saffi to target someone. This is not the same as sacrificing because the Enhanced ability was not paid. The Enhanced ability is a triggered ability that uses the stack and does a check when it resolves asking "Was X part of the mana cost? If yes = Y, If no = Z" Thus, these are entirely different things. If Wizards erratas anything, it'll be that the Enhanced abilities will no longer be triggered abilities, and thus not allow any time to target the creature should the mana not be paid.
Hi to all Project X players... just a quick question...
What's the correct target for a Trickbind against Project X, and when is the best time to play it?
That's a secret, go away. Seriously, must we tell you all how to defeat us? Really?? Ok..
It depends on the situation. If saffi is in grave, trick champ's ressurection ability. If saffi is in play... a good player will stack like this:
Champs sacrifice, ressurection, saffi shield. if you trickbind saffi's, then she will be returned. So still trickbind the ressurection.
The way to do this is that you shoot spot removal at Saffi in response to the Crypt Champion's sacrifice trigger. In game terms...
Crypt Champion comes into play (For simplicity, let's say it's from the yard due to Saffi, and this is the beginning of the loop)
Crypt Champion's trigger activates, bringing back Saffi and a creature of your choice
Game recognizes that no red was payed for the Champion, sacrifice trigger is put on the stack -------> (!) This is when you aim your removal at Saffi. I'll show the continued resolution.
Spot removal takes Saffi out; Saffi hits the graveyard
Crypt Champion's sacrifice trigger resolves, putting it in the graveyard
End result:
You: -1 card, 2 creatures with power 2 or less from your graveyard
Them: Saffi and Crypt Champion in the graveyard, 1 creature with power 2 or less from their yard, the fruits of 1 iteration of the combo (probably something like 3 life)
that is only if you play against a monkey. The project X player will not pass priority, and will sacrifice saffi immediately, so no time to shoot her down. You must shoot the champion down in response to saffi's ability to stop the combo.
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Original quote byTacosnape "All ideas that give me knowledge without any effort involved on my part are good ideas. Chop chop, my dear fellow."
DCI L2 Judge GP:Madrid 2010 45th GP:Amsterdam 2011 74th GP:London 2013 67th Bazaar of Moxen 2013 32nd
Mmh,they wouldn't do it, otherwise we would have heard more about it:)
Anyway, i've thinking bout matchups, and i've got the feeling that the pickles matchup is a hard one...I don't think we can finish them that fast, and there is no way for us to disrupt their combo..Am i right, orrrrr? If we cannot lay down a confidant, things looks grim,no?
When looking for solutions, 1 seedborn muse to chord for EOT might do the trick? Or any other suggestions, or even better, tactics?
PS: just came to realise: if the opponent has a spike feeder or bottle gnomes in his graveyard, we're screwed...They go infinite as well then lol... tech to solve that?
Pickles is a very bad match-up, but it's where Ghost Council and Wall of Roots shine. Wall because it gets around the mana lock and can block until you can stableize and Ghost Council for being a 4/4 beater that can effectively ignore the tap down effect.
...and yeah I've seen someone try to go off with a Bottle Gnomes in the graveyard.. fun stuff.
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If I do good - I feel good. If I do bad -I feel bad. That's my religion.
If saffi is in play... a good player will stack like this: Champs sacrifice, ressurection, saffi shield. if you trickbind saffi's, then she will be returned. So still trickbind the ressurection.
In this scenario Champion still has a Saffi shield on him, so he will be returned to play setting up a new recur of a 3 CMC creature meaning the project X player will just get saffi back again and sacrifice it again.
Foremost, I apologize if some of my questions were answered in the last thread. I did a quick skim and didn't see anything/wanted more information on it. Also, as a disclaimer, my Project X testing is limited.
I guess I have a couple questions about some tutor targets in the MD: Aven Mindcensor -- have you guys found this to be that great? I personally have not. I'm just carious what other people's experiences with it has been.
Loaming Shaman -- I guess I have never found a need for this. I'm aware that it significantly increases your chances of winning game 1 vs. Dredge, but other than that, has it been useful at all? I feel that I am able to rely on the 4x Leyline of the Void from SB for games 2 and 3 vs. Dredge. I am currently running 1 withered wretch MD but I'm still testing it.
Jixlid Jailer vs. Withered Wretch -- I really haven't tested either enough to say, but it seems like wretch would help vs. Tarmogofy decks too. It also hampers rise/fall (rise), and similar things. Comments?
Ghost Council -- This guy seems to be disappearing from the MD with Glitting Wishes now. I can understand that cause then you can wish for your fatties instead. I still feel his *** dodging abilities are very useful though. Thoughts?
Shimian Specter -- What do you guys think of this guy? It seems too slow vs. Combo and a little innefficent vs. control. But I have not tested him at all.
Also, a couple quick SB questions:
1 Hide // Seek -- This is more for the life gain I would assume. But is that significant enough to take a SB slot? I'm aware it can double up as Arti/Enchant-removal but you already have other SB slots devoted to that.
Edit: Has bitter ordel been effective for you guys in testing? It seems like you would have to cut too many cards to make room for it seeing you cannnot tutor for it. Just a theory though, untested.
Ghost Council -- This guy seems to be disappearing from the MD with Glitting Wishes now. I can understand that cause then you can wish for your fatties instead. I still feel his *** dodging abilities are very useful though. Thoughts?
About the Ghost Council, you really want him on MD. He gets around any kind of mass destruction spells and gives you a good time when you are facing aggro decks (block, sac your dmg-on creatures, and gaining an extra life is just awesome). Also, it is simply another Bridge-removal
And I found out that SB slots for this deck is bit tight. Now we are playing Glittering Wish, so we have 8~9 '1-ofs' + 3 Persecutes + 3~4 left slots. In that 3~4 empty slots, Stupor or Krosan Grip is usual choice. Both cards deserve 4 slots to be really effective.
Why are soo many discard slots needed? (4 castigate, 3-4 Stupor, 3-4 persecute). I was looking at the Top 8 lists and most of them didn't have this. One list ran a few Hypnotic Specters over Stupor btw, thoughts on that?
I guess, imo, 10-12 Discard spells is a little over board especially when 4 of them are persecutes.
If you guys don't mind me asking, I'm planning to bring Solar Flare to an MSS within 30some hours but I'm having trouble with the Project X match-up. This discussion didn't get very far in the Solar Flare thread, so I was hoping that you guys could tell me from your experiences what card give you guys the most trouble that I might be able to play? (I currently have 4 extripates devoted to this match).
Solar Flare usually has a very hard time defeating Project X, however, if you are patient and have the correct sideboard options, it's simple.
Firstly, run some sort of targeted removal such as mortify or last gasp. If the X player is going for the combo, when the x player sacs saffi targeting crypt champion use your removal on the crypt champion. Also, a few Magus of the Mirror in the sideboard usually do the trick (2 or so). If they straight up attempt to beat you down, you win that game.
Also, make sure your court hussars stay out of the graveyard as they can combo off with saffi and champion and champion says you must bring back a creature and it'd have to be court hussar and thus you do this more than 60 times equals milling yourself.
Has magus been that troublesome for you guys? It seems like you would just wait for a teysa win. (or mortify/petrify hussar).
Does Bottle Gnomes or Azorius Herald give you guys much trouble?
Also, just kind of double checking, you guys find Extirpate more hampersome than Leyline of the Void right?
A good X player can play around leyline of the void whereas extirpate is unseen and usually nets you a two for one immediate gain (as crypt and saffi removal from the board) You can destroy void whereas you can do nothing about extirpate.
Hi all - I have a lot of Project X in my FNM meta and was wondering from y'all what the bad matchups for Project X are, and maybe suggest a deck I can take to FNM to beat it. Thanks!
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"Death - an outmoded concept. We sleep, and we change."
This is a sample decklist.
2 Llanowar Wastes
1 Orzhov Basilica
4 Godless Shrine
3 Temple Garden
3 Overgrown Tomb
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Plains
3 Forest
1 Brushland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Pendelhaven
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
Creatures
3 Saffi Eriksdotter
4 Dark Confidant
4 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Teysa, Orzhov Scion
4 Wall of Roots
1 Soul Warden
3 Essence Warden
2 Crypt Champion
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Mystic Enforcer
1 Teneb, the Harvester
3 Castigate
4 Chord of Calling
2 Glittering Wish
2 Summoner's Pact
2 Faith's Fetters
1 Crypt Champion
1 Bitter Ordeal
3 Extirpate
1 Castigate
1 Glare of Subdual
1 Mortify
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Teneb, the Harvester
1 Nekrataal
1 Crime // Punishment
Has anyone heard the same thing? Because I'd like to start testing other decks if that's the case.
Type 2-
Mono B Zombie Control Aggro
BR Gargadon/gravepact suicide (In construction)
Extended-
UBG Raffinity
WUG Slide/Blink
Casual-
BWG Multiplayer Control
UB Peasant Madness Aggro
RWG Sliver Zoo
Although this is all hearsay, I can say that I heard it from a friend who heard it at the Indianopolis Regionals.
The Soul Warden doesn't need to be in the deck and should be replaced by another creature of choice, Ghost Council, Teneb, etc. If they have you in a position where they're wasting an Extirpate on any Warden you're probably winning, any opponent worth his salt will hold that extirpate for the Crypt Champion, which doesn't have a handy replacement.
Member: Team Revolution & MTGSalivation
If they do that, i'm going to be very angry that wizards went out of it's way to kill a deck that was regarded by a large part of the magic community and experts as trash pre-regionals. Putting alot of work into something to make it good and then have it taken away will be very frustrating.
:mad1:Apprentice of Lavamancy:mad1:
playing in standard:
Mono Black Control
(from hell):evil:
Tormod's crypt would clean that up, along with having a nice dredge defence. Also, sudden shock. Also, what I've used rather than gaining life is comboing with bitter ordeal, allowing me to remove their entire library from the game.
Type 2-
Mono B Zombie Control Aggro
BR Gargadon/gravepact suicide (In construction)
Extended-
UBG Raffinity
WUG Slide/Blink
Casual-
BWG Multiplayer Control
UB Peasant Madness Aggro
RWG Sliver Zoo
The way to do this is that you shoot spot removal at Saffi in response to the Crypt Champion's sacrifice trigger. In game terms...
Crypt Champion comes into play (For simplicity, let's say it's from the yard due to Saffi, and this is the beginning of the loop)
Crypt Champion's trigger activates, bringing back Saffi and a creature of your choice
Game recognizes that no red was payed for the Champion, sacrifice trigger is put on the stack -------> (!) This is when you aim your removal at Saffi. I'll show the continued resolution.
Spot removal takes Saffi out; Saffi hits the graveyard
Crypt Champion's sacrifice trigger resolves, putting it in the graveyard
End result:
You: -1 card, 2 creatures with power 2 or less from your graveyard
Them: Saffi and Crypt Champion in the graveyard, 1 creature with power 2 or less from their yard, the fruits of 1 iteration of the combo (probably something like 3 life)
What's the correct target for a Trickbind against Project X, and when is the best time to play it?
That's a secret, go away. Seriously, must we tell you all how to defeat us? Really?? Ok..
It depends on the situation. If saffi is in grave, trick champ's ressurection ability. If saffi is in play... a good player will stack like this:
Champs sacrifice, ressurection, saffi shield. if you trickbind saffi's, then she will be returned. So still trickbind the ressurection.
that is only if you play against a monkey. The project X player will not pass priority, and will sacrifice saffi immediately, so no time to shoot her down. You must shoot the champion down in response to saffi's ability to stop the combo.
DCI L2 Judge
GP:Madrid 2010 45th
GP:Amsterdam 2011 74th
GP:London 2013 67th
Bazaar of Moxen 2013 32nd
Pickles is a very bad match-up, but it's where Ghost Council and Wall of Roots shine. Wall because it gets around the mana lock and can block until you can stableize and Ghost Council for being a 4/4 beater that can effectively ignore the tap down effect.
...and yeah I've seen someone try to go off with a Bottle Gnomes in the graveyard.. fun stuff.
Member: Team Revolution & MTGSalivation
In this scenario Champion still has a Saffi shield on him, so he will be returned to play setting up a new recur of a 3 CMC creature meaning the project X player will just get saffi back again and sacrifice it again.
I guess I have a couple questions about some tutor targets in the MD:
Aven Mindcensor -- have you guys found this to be that great? I personally have not. I'm just carious what other people's experiences with it has been.
Loaming Shaman -- I guess I have never found a need for this. I'm aware that it significantly increases your chances of winning game 1 vs. Dredge, but other than that, has it been useful at all? I feel that I am able to rely on the 4x Leyline of the Void from SB for games 2 and 3 vs. Dredge. I am currently running 1 withered wretch MD but I'm still testing it.
Jixlid Jailer vs. Withered Wretch -- I really haven't tested either enough to say, but it seems like wretch would help vs. Tarmogofy decks too. It also hampers rise/fall (rise), and similar things. Comments?
Ghost Council -- This guy seems to be disappearing from the MD with Glitting Wishes now. I can understand that cause then you can wish for your fatties instead. I still feel his *** dodging abilities are very useful though. Thoughts?
Shimian Specter -- What do you guys think of this guy? It seems too slow vs. Combo and a little innefficent vs. control. But I have not tested him at all.
Also, a couple quick SB questions:
1 Hide // Seek -- This is more for the life gain I would assume. But is that significant enough to take a SB slot? I'm aware it can double up as Arti/Enchant-removal but you already have other SB slots devoted to that.
Edit: Has bitter ordel been effective for you guys in testing? It seems like you would have to cut too many cards to make room for it seeing you cannnot tutor for it. Just a theory though, untested.
About the Ghost Council, you really want him on MD. He gets around any kind of mass destruction spells and gives you a good time when you are facing aggro decks (block, sac your dmg-on creatures, and gaining an extra life is just awesome). Also, it is simply another Bridge-removal
And I found out that SB slots for this deck is bit tight. Now we are playing Glittering Wish, so we have 8~9 '1-ofs' + 3 Persecutes + 3~4 left slots. In that 3~4 empty slots, Stupor or Krosan Grip is usual choice. Both cards deserve 4 slots to be really effective.
I guess, imo, 10-12 Discard spells is a little over board especially when 4 of them are persecutes.
Firstly, run some sort of targeted removal such as mortify or last gasp. If the X player is going for the combo, when the x player sacs saffi targeting crypt champion use your removal on the crypt champion. Also, a few Magus of the Mirror in the sideboard usually do the trick (2 or so). If they straight up attempt to beat you down, you win that game.
Also, make sure your court hussars stay out of the graveyard as they can combo off with saffi and champion and champion says you must bring back a creature and it'd have to be court hussar and thus you do this more than 60 times equals milling yourself.
Good luck at your tournament.
Does Bottle Gnomes or Azorius Herald give you guys much trouble?
Also, just kind of double checking, you guys find Extirpate more hampersome than Leyline of the Void right?
Also, bottle gnomes are just cute.
Step one: kill the Crypt Champion with Saffi's sacrifice on the stack
Steps two and three: wonder why this is such a popular deck
The answer is still NO
"Death - an outmoded concept. We sleep, and we change."
Awesome sig and avatar by Mr. Stuff over at High~Light Studios!