This thread exists for the express purpose of the discussion of FCC issues. Scoring formats, placeholders, the lot of it. Post your creations in your other threads, post your ponderings on the whole process here.
(Stax: If this is stepping on toes, let me know; just seems like we could use one of these.)
Placeholder's are fine, and if you join the contest, placehold, and then don't play you got all of 1 post before being DQ'ed. It's not efficient enough spam to be worth the effort the ++ with it, and plenty of people like the process.
I'm done changing the scoring system for a while. Sorry guys, but it's never gonna' be perfect for everyone
The FCC is the Feature Card Contest, a monthly contest run in this forum to determine a 'Card of the Month' by the end of each month. Signups for May are currently up.
Every month, one user's card is featured on the front page of MTG Salvation.com. This is done by a series of single-elimination rounds in which people are paired up against each other, and judges decide which cards are best, based on flavor, creativity, overall quality, balance, ability to meet the guidelines that are set for each round, and ability to meet a few bonus requirements. The April FCC is currently going on, and looking at those threads is a good way to get a feel for how it works.
For judging... can we have the order of the judges to be different each round? I've (we've) been judging the same few people for two (going three) times already.
I've never really seen what the point of a placeholder is. I mean, why can't you post the card when you're ready to? Is there some bonus for post order I'm missing here...?
Maybe this reality is actually an alternate reality of a reality in which New Phyrexia was the joke expansion and Mirrodin Pure was the obvious expansion, except our reality is the Time Shifted reality which is opposite of that other reality which is that actual reality.
(Note before going into the post: this post is not meant to do any harm to any people, but just voice my opinion about their cards and judgings)
Hello,
I'd just like to say that I am very annoyed. I don't know what the deal is, but for some reason I keep losing FCC's to bad cards for no apparent reason. I don't know if everyone has somethign against me, or if the judges are biased or what the deal is, but i'm starting to get annoyed.
Let me lay this all out for you.
My first FCC was the March one. After I barely manage to make it past the first two rounds, I lose in round three. Let me show you the cards in question.
My card:
Spellwarper
Artifact
When Spellwarper comes into play, name a non-land card.
Imprint- When Spellwarper comes into play, search target players library for a non-land card and remove it from the game.
Players play all copies of the named card as though it was the imprinted card.
Opponents card:
Rival's Monument X:1mana:
Artifact (Rare)
Rival's Monument comes into play with X charge counters on it.
Remove a charge counter from Rival's Monument: Choose one - Rival's Monument becomes a 2/2 black horror creature with fear until end of turn, or Rival's Monument becomes a 3/3 white soldier creature that has "Whenever this creature deals damage, gain that much life" until end of turn.
I thought my card was great, Lemon and Limes card was overpowered, and even he admitted that he thought he would lose that round. The end result of judgings was close, but he ended up winning.
In all fairness, this isn't the reason that i'm complaining, but I thought i'd add it anyways. Lemon and Limes card wasn't THAT overpowered, and Istanbul was a good judge, so I let it slide.
Next month, in the April FCC here are our cards:
My card:
Essence Mutation :5mana::symu::symu:
Enchant Creature
Creatures you control that share a name with enchanted creature have "At the beginning of your upkeep, put a creature token into play that's a copy of this creature."
"Don't worry, we've got him outnumbered."
-Jidep, Last Words
My opponents card:
Gauntlets of the Adept Pickpocket
Legendary Artifact - Equipment
Equipped creature gets +3/+0.
Whenever equipped creature blocks or is blocked a creature, gain control of all equipment and enchantments on that creature and move them onto equipped creature.
Equip:
Now i'll admit it wasn't my best work, but Fear Mages card was horrendous. It cost a whopping 12 mana by the time you played and equipped it, to basically give the equipped creature +3/+0, as no one is going to let it steal anything relevant on purpose. The scores come in and.... Fear Mages card wins by getting a 22. Not only does that surpass my card by almost 3 points, but thats only 3 points off from being a perfect card, which his card isn't. If that card got printed, it would never, ever get played.
I issued an appeal to Stax, and we talked about it via several PM's, but in the end, nothing happened and I lost that round. I decided i'd give it one more FCC before I started complaining out of PM's.
This month in the May FCC here are our cards:
My card:
Magical Convocation :2mana::symu::symu::symu:
Enchantment
Tap any number of untapped Wizards you control: Counter target spell if its converted mana cost is less than the total power of Wizards tapped in this way.
When wizards meet, it is not to share ideas, but to destroy them.
My opponents card:
Camelot
Legendary Land
T: Add to 1 your mana pool.
T: Knight spells you play cost W less to play this turn. This effect reduces only the amount of colored mana you pay.
This card is very bad. To start off with, its a land that if you have more then 1 of its a dead card since its legendary. Then it just taps for a colourless mana, not even a coloured one. And its second ability is near useless considering that only a small amount of White knights exist. It is also worded incorrectly to boot!
Lets compare a regular Plains to Camelot. Camelot is legendary while Plains is not. You can have more then one Plains in play, but only one Camelot, causing a lot of blank copies if your running more then one, which you obviously want to do in a Knight deck. Plains can tap for a coloured mana while Camelot can only tap for a colourless. The only realistic situation that I can think of where Camelot is better then a Plains is if you play 2 or more knights in the same turn, and even then you just saved a measly mana or two.
The scores come in, and Camelot gets a whopping 23 points. Now, the card isn't even near perfect, and it gets 23 points. I sent a nicely worded appeal to our judge, Ikaros, and even though he has been on several times I haven't recieved a response yet, 3 days after the judging, and thus I don't expect anything to be done about my score.
I'd like to know what the issue is here. I'm not saying that anyone here is incompetent or is stupid, but I do think that there have been some mistakes made.
If I could please recieve a reply quickly I would appreciate it.
Now I haven't been your opponent or judge in any of these cases but I feel the main reason in each of the times you lost it was mainly due to specifics in judging. Each judge looks at a card in a different way. They try and point out flaws (or should) and from their judging it should be clear why one surpassed the other.
In each case you felt you should have won based on your (biased) opinion. You make assumptions on the use for another's card. Like how Camelot only saves you a few mana if you are playing a deck with the relatively few knights that exist. You would only be playing Camelot if you were playing the Knight deck AND there are 48 white knights. Somewhat more than a few. In each case that you lost your card was seen as inferior to the judges based on what they look for in a card.
Personally, I am not sure how Gauntlets of the Adept Pickpocket beat your card but each of the other ones were close and I believe you lost because what you look for in designing a card didn't happen to be what the judge's were looking for in a card.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.
In each case you felt you should have won based on your (biased) opinion. You make assumptions on the use for another's card. Like how Camelot only saves you a few mana if you are playing a deck with the relatively few knights that exist. You would only be playing Camelot if you were playing the Knight deck AND there are 48 white knights. Somewhat more than a few. In each case that you lost your card was seen as inferior to the judges based on what they look for in a card.
Well, obviously my card was seen as inferior or else I wouldn't be here complaining. However, when you are judging you should put what kind of cards you like and dislike aside and focus on the playability and creativity of the card. Camelot has very little playability value no matter what way you look at it. Camelot is still a dead card in multipules, which can kill an aggro deck, like knights. Plus, out of those 48 white knights, how many are actually playable even if they cost W less?
Personally, I am not sure how Gauntlets of the Adept Pickpocket beat your card....
The biggest problem I have here is that Stax was the one who judged my card. Since Stax is staff, and the moderator of this forum, he should accel in card critiques. Now he isn't bad at card critique by any means, but I just stil l can't see how I lost that round.
I'm usually not a sore loser, just so long as I lose to something decent and not something that isn't very good. Its like when you are running the best deck in the format and in the first round you lose to some new player running his 100 card deck.
I wouldn't have given Gauntlets of the Adept Pickpocket winning marks over your card.
That said, I spent a lot of time looking over your card vs. Lemon and Lime's card in the first example, and his rode the edge of balance, being strong without being broken. Yours was very difficult to understand; in fact, if I recall correctly, we had several PMs back and forth wherein you tried to explain to me how it worked, and I'm not exactly an idjit, here.
For what it's worth, there's nothing wrong with your opponent's card in the last example. Making it tap for would make it almost directly superior to Plains. You can't use the legendary argument, because by that logic, cards like Gaea's Cradle, Tolarian Academy, and Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers stink...and I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one.
You're also not gonna get TOO much sympathy from me because I'm very fond of Knights in general. *thplththt*
(Stax: If this is stepping on toes, let me know; just seems like we could use one of these.)
Always trading for more Kezzerdrixes...drixen...drixii...for more!
"Of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'm mad but not ill." - . _Werewolf Bridge_, Robert Anton Wilson
CHAMPION of Survivor MTG News vs. MTG Salvation!
WINNER of DC5 #1!
WINNER of Sept. '06 DCC!
Owner of Stax's Soul!
Think.
Um yeah thats annoying unless its replace in a timly manner. There is one bonus It dose show that your paying attention to the contest.
Good sites: Zombie's! - Coast to coast - Travian Browser Game
Like I said in the thread, I don't see a need for them, but I don't see a need to ban them either unless they get out of control.
Always trading for more Kezzerdrixes...drixen...drixii...for more!
"Of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'm mad but not ill." - . _Werewolf Bridge_, Robert Anton Wilson
CHAMPION of Survivor MTG News vs. MTG Salvation!
WINNER of DC5 #1!
WINNER of Sept. '06 DCC!
Owner of Stax's Soul!
Think.
I'm done changing the scoring system for a while. Sorry guys, but it's never gonna' be perfect for everyone
That said, any chance of making it sticky, so it doesn't perpetually scroll into oblivion?
Always trading for more Kezzerdrixes...drixen...drixii...for more!
"Of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'm mad but not ill." - . _Werewolf Bridge_, Robert Anton Wilson
CHAMPION of Survivor MTG News vs. MTG Salvation!
WINNER of DC5 #1!
WINNER of Sept. '06 DCC!
Owner of Stax's Soul!
Think.
I know, I just figured I'd answer your two initial statements
A curiousity... Can you nuke the useless posts in the FCC thread?
[EDIT: Done. I left up the post with the link to this thread, though.]
Always trading for more Kezzerdrixes...drixen...drixii...for more!
"Of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'm mad but not ill." - . _Werewolf Bridge_, Robert Anton Wilson
CHAMPION of Survivor MTG News vs. MTG Salvation!
WINNER of DC5 #1!
WINNER of Sept. '06 DCC!
Owner of Stax's Soul!
Think.
(other than broadcating Guidlines)
[EDIT: Er...what Stax said.]
Always trading for more Kezzerdrixes...drixen...drixii...for more!
"Of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'm mad but not ill." - . _Werewolf Bridge_, Robert Anton Wilson
CHAMPION of Survivor MTG News vs. MTG Salvation!
WINNER of DC5 #1!
WINNER of Sept. '06 DCC!
Owner of Stax's Soul!
Think.
May I further suggest that said timeframe be 48 hours after the close of any given round?
I think it'd save us a lot of time and stress.
Always trading for more Kezzerdrixes...drixen...drixii...for more!
"Of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'm mad but not ill." - . _Werewolf Bridge_, Robert Anton Wilson
CHAMPION of Survivor MTG News vs. MTG Salvation!
WINNER of DC5 #1!
WINNER of Sept. '06 DCC!
Owner of Stax's Soul!
Think.
Level 2 Judge
Token and Playmat Store
Beyond the Guildpact
/me shrugs.
Always trading for more Kezzerdrixes...drixen...drixii...for more!
"Of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'm mad but not ill." - . _Werewolf Bridge_, Robert Anton Wilson
CHAMPION of Survivor MTG News vs. MTG Salvation!
WINNER of DC5 #1!
WINNER of Sept. '06 DCC!
Owner of Stax's Soul!
Think.
Aren't "first!" posts generally verboten on forums nowadays?
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Name vs Name. and than a card. What do I do if I want to post my card
Level 1 Judge. I tweet. Member of clan <Limited>. The Dunning-Kruger effect.
Hello,
I'd just like to say that I am very annoyed. I don't know what the deal is, but for some reason I keep losing FCC's to bad cards for no apparent reason. I don't know if everyone has somethign against me, or if the judges are biased or what the deal is, but i'm starting to get annoyed.
Let me lay this all out for you.
My first FCC was the March one. After I barely manage to make it past the first two rounds, I lose in round three. Let me show you the cards in question.
My card:
Spellwarper
Artifact
When Spellwarper comes into play, name a non-land card.
Imprint- When Spellwarper comes into play, search target players library for a non-land card and remove it from the game.
Players play all copies of the named card as though it was the imprinted card.
Opponents card:
Rival's Monument X:1mana:
Artifact (Rare)
Rival's Monument comes into play with X charge counters on it.
Remove a charge counter from Rival's Monument: Choose one - Rival's Monument becomes a 2/2 black horror creature with fear until end of turn, or Rival's Monument becomes a 3/3 white soldier creature that has "Whenever this creature deals damage, gain that much life" until end of turn.
I thought my card was great, Lemon and Limes card was overpowered, and even he admitted that he thought he would lose that round. The end result of judgings was close, but he ended up winning.
In all fairness, this isn't the reason that i'm complaining, but I thought i'd add it anyways. Lemon and Limes card wasn't THAT overpowered, and Istanbul was a good judge, so I let it slide.
Next month, in the April FCC here are our cards:
My card:
Essence Mutation :5mana::symu::symu:
Enchant Creature
Creatures you control that share a name with enchanted creature have "At the beginning of your upkeep, put a creature token into play that's a copy of this creature."
"Don't worry, we've got him outnumbered."
-Jidep, Last Words
My opponents card:
Gauntlets of the Adept Pickpocket
Legendary Artifact - Equipment
Equipped creature gets +3/+0.
Whenever equipped creature blocks or is blocked a creature, gain control of all equipment and enchantments on that creature and move them onto equipped creature.
Equip:
Now i'll admit it wasn't my best work, but Fear Mages card was horrendous. It cost a whopping 12 mana by the time you played and equipped it, to basically give the equipped creature +3/+0, as no one is going to let it steal anything relevant on purpose. The scores come in and.... Fear Mages card wins by getting a 22. Not only does that surpass my card by almost 3 points, but thats only 3 points off from being a perfect card, which his card isn't. If that card got printed, it would never, ever get played.
I issued an appeal to Stax, and we talked about it via several PM's, but in the end, nothing happened and I lost that round. I decided i'd give it one more FCC before I started complaining out of PM's.
This month in the May FCC here are our cards:
My card:
Magical Convocation :2mana::symu::symu::symu:
Enchantment
Tap any number of untapped Wizards you control: Counter target spell if its converted mana cost is less than the total power of Wizards tapped in this way.
When wizards meet, it is not to share ideas, but to destroy them.
My opponents card:
Camelot
Legendary Land
T: Add to 1 your mana pool.
T: Knight spells you play cost W less to play this turn. This effect reduces only the amount of colored mana you pay.
This card is very bad. To start off with, its a land that if you have more then 1 of its a dead card since its legendary. Then it just taps for a colourless mana, not even a coloured one. And its second ability is near useless considering that only a small amount of White knights exist. It is also worded incorrectly to boot!
Lets compare a regular Plains to Camelot. Camelot is legendary while Plains is not. You can have more then one Plains in play, but only one Camelot, causing a lot of blank copies if your running more then one, which you obviously want to do in a Knight deck. Plains can tap for a coloured mana while Camelot can only tap for a colourless. The only realistic situation that I can think of where Camelot is better then a Plains is if you play 2 or more knights in the same turn, and even then you just saved a measly mana or two.
The scores come in, and Camelot gets a whopping 23 points. Now, the card isn't even near perfect, and it gets 23 points. I sent a nicely worded appeal to our judge, Ikaros, and even though he has been on several times I haven't recieved a response yet, 3 days after the judging, and thus I don't expect anything to be done about my score.
I'd like to know what the issue is here. I'm not saying that anyone here is incompetent or is stupid, but I do think that there have been some mistakes made.
If I could please recieve a reply quickly I would appreciate it.
Thank you.
In each case you felt you should have won based on your (biased) opinion. You make assumptions on the use for another's card. Like how Camelot only saves you a few mana if you are playing a deck with the relatively few knights that exist. You would only be playing Camelot if you were playing the Knight deck AND there are 48 white knights. Somewhat more than a few. In each case that you lost your card was seen as inferior to the judges based on what they look for in a card.
Personally, I am not sure how Gauntlets of the Adept Pickpocket beat your card but each of the other ones were close and I believe you lost because what you look for in designing a card didn't happen to be what the judge's were looking for in a card.
Well, obviously my card was seen as inferior or else I wouldn't be here complaining. However, when you are judging you should put what kind of cards you like and dislike aside and focus on the playability and creativity of the card. Camelot has very little playability value no matter what way you look at it. Camelot is still a dead card in multipules, which can kill an aggro deck, like knights. Plus, out of those 48 white knights, how many are actually playable even if they cost W less?
The biggest problem I have here is that Stax was the one who judged my card. Since Stax is staff, and the moderator of this forum, he should accel in card critiques. Now he isn't bad at card critique by any means, but I just stil l can't see how I lost that round.
I'm usually not a sore loser, just so long as I lose to something decent and not something that isn't very good. Its like when you are running the best deck in the format and in the first round you lose to some new player running his 100 card deck.
That said, I spent a lot of time looking over your card vs. Lemon and Lime's card in the first example, and his rode the edge of balance, being strong without being broken. Yours was very difficult to understand; in fact, if I recall correctly, we had several PMs back and forth wherein you tried to explain to me how it worked, and I'm not exactly an idjit, here.
For what it's worth, there's nothing wrong with your opponent's card in the last example. Making it tap for would make it almost directly superior to Plains. You can't use the legendary argument, because by that logic, cards like Gaea's Cradle, Tolarian Academy, and Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers stink...and I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one.
You're also not gonna get TOO much sympathy from me because I'm very fond of Knights in general. *thplththt*
Always trading for more Kezzerdrixes...drixen...drixii...for more!
"Of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'm mad but not ill." - . _Werewolf Bridge_, Robert Anton Wilson
CHAMPION of Survivor MTG News vs. MTG Salvation!
WINNER of DC5 #1!
WINNER of Sept. '06 DCC!
Owner of Stax's Soul!
Think.