Well, this got off to a good start but seems to have been lost in the upgrade. So:
Do you think Armageddon would be appropriate in 9th-Legal Type 2? Keep in mind that Abusable of Worlds will only be available for 2 months when it rotates with Mirrodin block for Ravnica block... + admittadly, WotC isn't too hot to trot on mana denial.
A few of the replies to the original poll THEORIZED that Armageddon's return would spell the death of non-:symu: control. I emphasize theorized since no one bothered to extrapolate - hard to stress test a format when you know less than 50% of the cards, ja.
Armaggedon is SO out of flavor for white. It is mass land destruction and LD is red and green's part of the color wheel only and mass removal belongs strictly in green, why else would Wizards have printed Tranquility in 12 different sets? Duh.
Seriously, I voted for reprint. It provides for a more rock/paper/scissors metagame by allowing weenie to beat control and balances things out (after ravager leaves T2 of course).
'Geddon wouldn't ruin non-blue completely. Let's have a look.
White really has no response to a 'geddon. I'm inclined to say white would, ironically, suffer worse than any other color.
Blue control decks pack so much countermagic that this shouldn't be an issue. If the 'geddon slips through, I'd call it fair.
Black control is usually laden with discard, but is still vulnerable to topdecked 'geddons. Seems fair enough.
Red control tends to blow up lands. If a player can get the :3mana::symw: needed to cast 'geddon, then he's almost doing the red player a favor - that's four fewer Stone Rains red has to draw.
Green control has never really existed outside of Plow Under and straight LD effects. Similarly to red, I think 'geddon would probably be as much as help as it would be a hindrance here.
Overall, I'd say power concerns aren't there.
Flavorwise, I've ultimately concluded that 'geddon can be printed in either white or red and still make sense. Absolute, symmetrical destruction is a white effect, as it puts everyone on an equal footing (hey, it's not 'geddon's fault you have a grip full of lands you've been holding back, right?). I don't think I have to explain why it could be red.
Fun question about 'geddon's place in the color pie: did they accidentally mix up the kicker abilities on Desolation Angel and Desolation Giant? Someone in editing wasn't paying attention that day, I guess.
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Armageddon is too environment warping for a base set. It's just too good at what it does. It defines a new deck-type w/ only minor cards from expansions. A new variant perhaps could be made and then that could be put into a base (once it has been in an expansion) and that may be acceptable.
Ahh, someone finally went Comedy Option - IT WAS MUSTEVAL, WASN'T IT?!
If I wasn't already convinced that it should be reprinted, the fact that it is leaving 1.X would do the jobbe. I think it deserves a spot next to *** as Iconic M:tG material. Next to. Not instead of. Please.
Armageddon is too environment warping for a base set. It's just too good at what it does. It defines a new deck-type w/ only minor cards from expansions. A new variant perhaps could be made and then that could be put into a base (once it has been in an expansion) and that may be acceptable.
[edit]Oooo i just tipped the scales
well there are things like crucible and sacred grounds in T1, so they can still fly back from it with only a minor delay
and armageddon, IMHO, should be back.
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I hope itll be reprinted, and I think its a 50/50 chanse for it beeing in either bok,sok, or 9th..
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It would be funny to have it back in, even though its not flavor correct. Mono white control could use the boost, maybe with the new winter orb on a stick.
I totally think it should be in 9th. I've loved WW since the days of Savannah Lions, Pump Knights And Crusades, when you could still have STP in your WW deck and make it pummy.
Even at the cost of ***, I'd like to see it back. I actually think it is in flavour of white, it has that whole "Act of god" kind of thing that white is supposed to have. I know white isn't supposed to have land kill, but isn't Soulscour technically land kill? They worked around that one by giving it an "Act of God" kind of flavour. Why not do it again when they bring back Geddon.
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I definatly want it to be in 9th, and also think it should be, but I have a feeling WotC doesn't feel the same way. Like others have said, it's out of color, and may be too powerful/game warping for thier liking.
Armageddon should NOT be in 9th. While it is iconic, we already got our "high quality" foil version in the judge promo. Who needs to dilute that thing's value with a 9th reprint?
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Awful, just awful. Both you guys get a ..although it's nice to see you out of hiding, Annorax. Foily depreciation is such a lame reason to not introduce Armageddon to a new generation of T2 players. As for the WW is Dead = No Need For 'geddon - I will give you Just One Guess where you can stick such flawed logic.
Another card people always point out as a reason why white isn’t as good any more is Armageddon. I agree that rotating out Armageddon had a huge impact on the Magic, but that’s exactly why we did it. We felt that the threat of Armageddon was preventing players from building non-blue decks that needed to have a lot of land in play. If you couldn’t counter a ‘Geddon, then you just couldn’t play a competitive deck that relied on expensive spells. So we took ‘Geddon out of Seventh Edition, hoping this would lead to the dawn of a new day where the coast was clear for fatty decks, non-blue control decks, and maybe even some funky combo decks that no one had even thought of before.
Our plan was foiled (no pun intended) by those annoying blue mages. Blue decks of all shapes and sizes exclaimed, “I can tap out and no one can blow up all my lands?! Well then I’m invincible!” We didn’t realize quite how strong this effect was or we would have started lowering the power level of blue cards once we knew we were going to take out Armageddon. In addition, the Invasion block’s multi-color theme is inherently friendly to slow decks (especially blue decks) because the aggro-weenie strategies that are the natural enemy of blue decks don’t want to run more than one color, and thus can’t take advantage of powerful gold cards.
I guess the real lesson here is that Armageddon has not been permanently taken away from white. The card Armageddon is too powerful to have as a constant part of the game, but my current opinion is that it’s not too powerful to have around sometimes. And the mechanic of “destroy all lands” has not been taken away from white.
In fact, we think of white as (in part) the mass destruction color. One of white’s big themes is balance. The card Balance is way too powerful to ever print again, but the flavor and the mechanic are very white. White, with its twisted sense of fairness, believes that evening things out is ok. As long as we destroy all the creatures, that’s fair. The fact that you didn’t have any creatures and your opponent had four when you summoned down the Wrath of God isn’t white’s fault, right? Similarly, Armageddon, Akroma's Vengeance, and Balancing Act are very white mechanics.
Another defensive part of white is its reliance on equality. White has the ability to reset the board so that both sides have an equal playing ground. This is why spells like Wrath of God (and yes, even Armageddon) are flavored in white.
Serra: So I'm definitely in Ninth?
Me: No, you're just not on the “definitely remove” list. Hey, maybe we'll put you up for a vote? Do you think you could take Armageddon?
Is MaRo just f'ing with Serra, or us too? + finally, the NAIL IN THE COFFIN:
Armageddon is still in flavor for white (as are all symmetrical mass destruction spells). Red, being the best color at land destruction, also can destroy all lands, and we've been focusing on red's ability to do so a lot more lately. Armageddon and Cataclysm could both see the light of day again sometime, although exactly when is still up in the air.
This is the third time I've done this... please re-read the bits that state that is one of the mass destruction colours, until it is tattoo'd into your mind. Cool, thanks for that.
To summarize: What does pie look like? Armagedd0n, yo
You can post all the links you want, Anne, but it doesn't change the fact that Armageddon is still in flavour for :symw:, as are all symmetrical mass destruction spells. Just because they'll never reprint Balance for it's brokenness doesn't mean it doesn't belong in :symw:... because it does. + so does Armageddon. So nya + such. Waitaminute - Desolation Angel's WHITE kicker blows up land. You ARE Annorax @_@!!1
i think their is no way that armaggedon should be in 9th.
it will bring loads of annoying control decks and make white weenie the most played deck!
it just wouldnt be right.
You can post all the links you want, Anne, but it doesn't change the fact that Armageddon is still in flavour for :symw:, as are all symmetrical mass destruction spells. Just because they'll never reprint Balance for it's brokenness doesn't mean it doesn't belong in :symw:... because it does. + so does Armageddon. So nya + such. Waitaminute - Desolation Angel's WHITE kicker blows up land. You ARE Annorax @_@!!1
:evil2:
Something tells me you're the one who's Annorax'd. Maybe I needed to link Epicenter to show that "destroy all lands" has been moved to red for good. If Armageddon were reprinted, then white would be able to efficiently deal with every type of permanent. Mono-:symw: control could easily run 4x ***, 4x Geddon, 4x that stupid new white Tranquility, 4x Altar's Light... in Type 2, isn't that just a little nutso?
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Do you think Armageddon would be appropriate in 9th-Legal Type 2? Keep in mind that Abusable of Worlds will only be available for 2 months when it rotates with Mirrodin block for Ravnica block... + admittadly, WotC isn't too hot to trot on mana denial.
A few of the replies to the original poll THEORIZED that Armageddon's return would spell the death of non-:symu: control. I emphasize theorized since no one bothered to extrapolate - hard to stress test a format when you know less than 50% of the cards, ja.
Seriously, I voted for reprint. It provides for a more rock/paper/scissors metagame by allowing weenie to beat control and balances things out (after ravager leaves T2 of course).
3CB and 4CB5CB!White really has no response to a 'geddon. I'm inclined to say white would, ironically, suffer worse than any other color.
Blue control decks pack so much countermagic that this shouldn't be an issue. If the 'geddon slips through, I'd call it fair.
Black control is usually laden with discard, but is still vulnerable to topdecked 'geddons. Seems fair enough.
Red control tends to blow up lands. If a player can get the :3mana::symw: needed to cast 'geddon, then he's almost doing the red player a favor - that's four fewer Stone Rains red has to draw.
Green control has never really existed outside of Plow Under and straight LD effects. Similarly to red, I think 'geddon would probably be as much as help as it would be a hindrance here.
Overall, I'd say power concerns aren't there.
Flavorwise, I've ultimately concluded that 'geddon can be printed in either white or red and still make sense. Absolute, symmetrical destruction is a white effect, as it puts everyone on an equal footing (hey, it's not 'geddon's fault you have a grip full of lands you've been holding back, right?). I don't think I have to explain why it could be red.
Fun question about 'geddon's place in the color pie: did they accidentally mix up the kicker abilities on Desolation Angel and Desolation Giant? Someone in editing wasn't paying attention that day, I guess.
+ of course the poll is biased - Armageddon is soooo cool.
On one hand, Armageddon might allow me to play White Weenie again. Did I mention I heart that deck?
But if I can't play the T2 with these Wraths I shelled out $60 for, heads will roll. Oh how they will roll!
Really? *counts* 6,7,8... Oh no! Armageddon pushed off to 1/1.5?! *panic*
I wonder if that's swung any votes.
[edit]Oooo i just tipped the scales
If I wasn't already convinced that it should be reprinted, the fact that it is leaving 1.X would do the jobbe. I think it deserves a spot next to *** as Iconic M:tG material. Next to. Not instead of. Please.
well there are things like crucible and sacred grounds in T1, so they can still fly back from it with only a minor delay
and armageddon, IMHO, should be back.
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Even at the cost of ***, I'd like to see it back. I actually think it is in flavour of white, it has that whole "Act of god" kind of thing that white is supposed to have. I know white isn't supposed to have land kill, but isn't Soulscour technically land kill? They worked around that one by giving it an "Act of God" kind of flavour. Why not do it again when they bring back Geddon.
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Is MaRo just f'ing with Serra, or us too? + finally, the NAIL IN THE COFFIN:
This is the third time I've done this... please re-read the bits that state that is one of the mass destruction colours, until it is tattoo'd into your mind. Cool, thanks for that.
To summarize: What does pie look like? Armagedd0n, yo
Ten years ago, Armageddon fit in white's comfortable slice of the color pie. Now, it's not so white anymore.
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:evil2:
it will bring loads of annoying control decks and make white weenie the most played deck!
it just wouldnt be right.
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Something tells me you're the one who's Annorax'd. Maybe I needed to link Epicenter to show that "destroy all lands" has been moved to red for good. If Armageddon were reprinted, then white would be able to efficiently deal with every type of permanent. Mono-:symw: control could easily run 4x ***, 4x Geddon, 4x that stupid new white Tranquility, 4x Altar's Light... in Type 2, isn't that just a little nutso?
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
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It already came back. I predicted this on MiseTings a LONG time ago, but apparently banned people can't access their own attachments. WTF.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)