SkyShroud1GG
Legendary Creature-Elf Avatar
As long as you control a forest, if SkyShroud would leave play, instead remove it from the game. Return it to play at end of turn. I am this forest. I am this place, and you cannot defile me with your presence.
2/1
Nothing 3BB
[NULL]
You may play Nothing at any time you could play a sorcery.
Nothing is a permanent and has power and toughness.
Nothing may can participate in combat as if it were a creature. (Nothing is not a creature and may attack and use tap abilities the turn it comes into play. Lethal damage does not destroy Nothing.) 2/2
OK, how well do these cards work? [btw, its bad form to put you question in the subject] SkyShroud1GG
Legendary Creature-Elf Avatar
As long as you control a forest, if SkyShroud would leave play, instead remove it from the game. Return it to play at end of turn.
2/1
By itself? Fine, I suppose. If ever a second replacement effect was printed that included a delayed triger? Then you get arguments about what happens when both replacements are applied to the same event, which is why this sort of thing just isn't done.
Nothing 3BB
[NULL]
You may play Nothing at any time you could play a sorcery.
Nothing is a permanent and has power and toughness.
Nothing may can participate in combat as if it were a creature. (Nothing is not a creature and may attack and use tap abilities the turn it comes into play. Lethal damage does not destroy Nothing.)
2/2
First, it would be "can...as though," not "may" or "as if" (looks like you couldn't decide between one of those options). Second, once it's in play it is a permanent. What's lacking is anything to say that you can play it as a spell(defining when isn't enough, see 212.7a), or that it gets put into play as the final step of resolution.
But what is really wrong is this is an "Un-set" flavored card, not a real Magic card. I can't say anything is specifically wrong with the concept, just that it is wrong.
Yes yes, very "Un-set." (I know I do not sound like it, but i do appreciate you helping me out condor.)
Nothing 3BB
[NULL]
You may play Nothing, as a spell, at any time you could play a sorcery.
Nothing is a permanent card and has power and toughness.
Nothing can participate in combat as a creature. (Nothing is not a creature and may attack and use tap abilities the turn it comes into play. Lethal damage does not destroy Nothing.) 2/2
Now I had a question could SkyShroud read: If SkyShroud would leave play, instead remove it from the game until end of turn.
I know it would make some infinite loop, i just wanted to know if it COULD say that and if not why not.
Spirit of Battle4RR
Creature-Spirit
Double Strike
Splice into creatures R
When this creature resolves choose a creature. That creature has first strike until end of turn.
4/4
Valero's Will2BW
Tribal Sorcery-Human
Splice into human WB
When this spell resolves, all non-humans creatures become 1/1 humans until end of turn. “We earned our power, you were born into it. I will show you just how undeserving of it you are.” -Magistrate Valero to Lensol
And how about a card CardU
Instant
Until end of turn you have no maximum hand size.
First off, it's splice ONTO, not into, unless you're changing it because it's a creature.
Second, splicing a non-creature onto a creature is very problematic, although creature on creature* could just use a rules entry.
Card is useless, since it will wear off and then you'll have to discard.
*Usually you pay double for that kind of action, Cotton.
But I thought
314.2 After discarding, the following actions happen simultaneously: all damage is removed from permanents and all "until end of turn" and "this turn" effects end (this game action doesn't use the stack).
I guess you're right, the discarding isn't a SBE or anything. I was thinking it would cause another cleanup step, but that's only the case if there is a SBE or a triggered ability.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
I guess you're right, the discarding isn't a SBE or anything. I was thinking it would cause another cleanup step, but that's only the case if there is a SBE or a triggered ability.
I did not mean to do that to you Sutherlands. I already knew the answer to that one, but this guy: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=88801&page=2#19
Did not know the rule (and was making fun of me for not read/knowing the rules) and I know he would not have taken a NON guru's word so I wanted you to say it. Thanks for the ketch with the splice cards, yeah I guess I typed them wrong, I am a bad speller.
The creatures would lose the wording when they left the stack. I just wanted to make sure the ability triggered. Like with "when ~ goes to the graveyard from play."
213.5 If an effect changes any characteristics of a spell that becomes a permanent, the effect continues to apply to the permanent when the spell resolves.
If Ersatz Gnomes turns a creature spell colorless, the creature it makes will be colorless. I see no reason for it not to apply to text given to it by splice. At the very least, a little bit could be added to the CompRules to ensure that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
213.5 If an effect changes any characteristics of a spell that becomes a permanent, the effect continues to apply to the permanent when the spell resolves.
If Ersatz Gnomes turns a creature spell colorless, the creature it makes will be colorless. I see no reason for it not to apply to text given to it by splice. At the very least, a little bit could be added to the CompRules to ensure that.
Wow, I did not know that. I better make the spirit of battle cost more to splice then.
Here I was getting into a debate with some one about if these two cards work or not:
Spirit of Battle4RR
Creature-Spirit
Double Strike
Splice into creatures R
When this creature resolves choose a creature. That creature has first strike until end of turn.
4/4
Nope. First off, creatures (which are permanents) don't resolve - spells do. And "resolve" means different things to different kinds of spells, that you are trying to homogenize:
212.7b When a sorcery spell resolves, the actions stated in its rules text are followed. Then it's put into its owner's graveyard.
212.3b When a creature spell resolves, its controller puts it into play under his or her control.
Besides, the abilities would only "work" in play. So, you can't add "spell text" to a pemanent spell. But you could make the trigger condition be "When this card comes into play, if you played it from your hand, ...."
I don't think you can do the same with the "splice onto Human," since it could need be either spell text or permanent text, depending on what it spliced to, and you can't mix them.
And how about a card CardU
Instant
Until end of turn you have no maximum hand size.
"Until end of turn" wears of immediately after the discard, so it works.
Besides, the abilities would only "work" in play. So, you can't add "spell text" to a pemanent spell. But you could make the trigger condition be "When this card comes into play, if you played it from your hand, ...."
Well the double strike will only work in play. Spirit of battle is going to just be changed to this now: "Spirit of Battle :4mana::symr::symr:
Creature-Spirit
Double Strike
Splice onto creatures R
4/4"
Now that I know it gives out double strike.
I don't think you can do the same with the "splice onto Human," since it could need be either spell text or permanent text, depending on what it spliced to, and you can't mix them.
Now, normally when I am assume you have not read something, I am wrong. But it seems to me, based on your points, you did not look at the cards that closely, look at Will again:
Valero's Will :2mana::symb::symw:
Tribal Sorcery-Human
Splice into human :symw::symb: When this spell resolves, all non-humans creatures become 1/1 humans until end of turn. “We earned our power, you were born into it. I will show you just how undeserving of it you are.” -Magistrate Valero to Lensol
That's a triggered ability that fires when the spell resolves. Both creature spell and sorcery spells resolve differently, but they both resolve.
So it should say "creature card" or "creature spell."
"Creature spell." A card and the spell that it represents are not the same thing. And the difference is created by "playing" the card, which is why there was a recent discussion in another thread about putting cards directly on the stack, even if the difference wasn't critical to the effect in question.
But they both DO resolve.
The "creature" didn't resolve, the "spell" did. The "creature" has the ability at the time it would trigger; it is not a "spell," and your trigger cannot go off.
This is why all CIP triggers that require information about its history as a spell are worded as I suggested. (And before you bring it up, no the creature wasn't "played" either. But effects that look back at the history of an object can see the full history, even when it looked different. The action that triggers the ability has to be what actually happens, and the condition has to properly describe the objects that take part in the action.)
This is why, for example, leaves-play triggers have to "look back" to when the term "creature" was correct. They could trigger from the graveyard if an ability on the graveyard card could call itself a "creature." You are really trying to do the exact same thing, and it doesn't work.
Now, normally when I am assume you have not read something, I am wrong. But it seems to me, based on your points, you did not look at the cards that closely, look at Will again:
I'm making some assumptions about what it is you think you mean, because it really is complete nonsense. This spell can be cast as a sorcery:
Valero's Will :2mana::symb::symw:
Tribal Sorcery-Human
Splice into human :symw::symb: When this spell resolves, all non-humans creatures become 1/1 humans until end of turn.
Which means you want the text to be "spell text," applied according to rule 212.7b. It's a stetch, I know, but it is an assumption that has to be made to put that text on a sorcery card. It is also the assumption what allows you to use the term "creature spell" in the above trigger (ignoring that it doesn't work). But the assumption also means it can't be treated as text that works in play.
The alternative is to assume it only works in play, which means it is useless as a sorcery. Either way, your card won't work. Spells-text and permanent-text do not mix. Sorry if I didn't explain that in more detail before, but I didn't think it was worth the effort. This is another "design constraint" that you have to deal with.
Condor, seriously, who the heck are you? I had to read that post 3 times to understand it, and I am a physics grad student(admittedly a bad one). You are either a 4<judge, or work for R&D.
Because of you, I now know Spirit of Battle is all wrong. I will fix it. I am only talking about Valero's Will now.
You go on to say
(And before you bring it up, no the creature wasn't "played" either. But effects that look back at the history of an object can see the full history, even when it looked different. The action that triggers the ability has to be what actually happens, and the condition has to properly describe the objects that take part in the action.)
Well while the creature spell IS resolving, its a spell, not till AFTER it resolves does it become a creature. So when the trigged ability looks back, it sees that the "spell" did resolve.
This is why, for example, leaves-play triggers have to "look back" to when the term "creature" was correct.
This is a "leaves the stack" ability. When you splice Will into a creature spell and it resolves the trigger needs to "look back" to when the creature was a spell, which is when its triggered.
When Valero's Will is spliced into a creature spell, the text only functions while the creature IS a spell, and that the only time it needs to function to trigger its effect.
P.S. I seems to me, when reading this. That Phage should kill you every-time, since you never played her from your hand, you played something else.
Well while the creature spell IS resolving, its a spell
And nothing "happens" while a creature spell "is resolving," except to put it into play. Its text is completely ignored (unless it's a CIP replacement, but that has nothing to do with this issue).
So when the trigged ability looks back, it sees that the "spell" did resolve.
If the text is spliced onto a creature card, there is no reason for it to "look back." Rule 410.10d does not apply to it.
If it does "look back," (i.e., you amend the rules to include it in 410.10d), text on a creature spell is not active when the card is a spell.
The way to solve this is make it a CIP trigger, not a "when resolved" trigger. (Maybe there are other ways, but they will require it work from in-play.)
If the text is on a sorcery (i.e., cast it directly), there is no distinct event for "spell resolves." It is a multi-step process (true for creature spells as well, but less noticable). The rules for playing a spell state when abilities trigger for it, to solve this problem. The rules for resolving spells do not. So, I'm assuming you mean "just after it finishes resolving," again amending the rules.
If the text is on a sorcery, it is in the graveyard after that happens. No rule allows it to work from thew graveyard. So now the fix for creatures works against you, because you can't make it "look back."
Long ago, Clone was a targeted spell. It was discovered that spell-functionality and permanent-functionality don't mix. They still don't.
When Valero's Will is spliced into a creature spell, the text only functions while the creature IS a spell
Can't.
P.S. I seems to me, when reading this. That Phage should kill you every-time, since you never played her from your hand, you played something else.
Hence my parenthetical comments starting "And before you bring it up..."
text on a creature spell is not active when the card is a spell.
All right call me stupid, but this CANNOT be right. Or you could counter a split second creature.
502.58a Split second is a static ability that functions only while the spell with split second is on the stack. "Split second" means "As long as this spell is on the stack, players can't play other spells or abilities that aren't mana abilities."
This text HAS TO function while the creature is a spell, and does.
As far as I can tell rule 402.8g says that Will would work when spiced into a creature because it talks about spells/resolving, which only exist/happen on the stack. Feel free to point out what I missed, but as far as I can see, you're wrong. (I am sure I over looked something and your going to tell me what)
All right call me stupid, but this CANNOT be right. Or you could counter a split second creature.
<Sigh>.
There are exceptions to nearly every statement you can make about Magic. The key is that something has to make it an exception. What applies to that situation is:
401.6. Any spell can have static abilities that apply while the spell is on the stack. These include, but are not limited to, additional costs, alternative costs, and cost reductions. See rule 409, "Playing Spells and Activated Abilities."
That's the general one. There's also the specific one about Split Second that says the ability "functions only while the spell with split second is on the stack."
What I was talking about was abilities that don't fall into an exception. And what I've been trying to get across to you, with double-examples, is that if you make a splice-onto-creature ability that has to work from both a creature and a sorcery, that it has to be an exception for one of those cases but not the other. Which is what makes it impossible to mix spell text with permanent text.
And, even if you think you have contrived to get around such issues, your trigger doesn't work because "when a spell resolves" isn't a discrete event, just like "when a spell is played" isn't one. And the only logical place to put it in the sequence of events that comprise "resolving" is after all of the steps are complete. That is, putting the card into play/graveyard corresponds to step 409.1h in the playing process, and triggering your ability corresponds to 409.1g. The text isn't part of an object on the stack at that time.
One subtle point you may have missed (not your fault at all: it isn't in the rules, but it is obvious once you apply it to a few very specific instances) is that the "resolving spell text" needs to exist separately from the spell itself, since the card can be removed while the spell is resolving. So the "resolving spell text" and other "stack-abilities" of the spell card (e.g., Split Second, "can't be countered," what you are trying to do with a trigger) can't interact with each as you might expect if you don't know this subtle point.
Ah - the mostdirect examples seem to have errata. No matter - you can still Burning Wish for Shahrazad. And you need some reason not to (try to) apply some abilities of instants and sorceries as part of resolution. Not that "Last Word can't be countered" makes sense during resolution, but why does "Kavu Chameleon can't be countered" apply on the stack while "Karplusan Strider can't be the target of blue or black spells" doesn't?
Ok. I got the isn't discrete bit through my skull.
"At the beginning of this spells resolution, all non-humans creatures become 1/1 humans until end of turn."
Or does this cost troubles because it would be placed on the top of the stack, over a spell that is in the process of resolving?
Oh 409.1h, "Partial payments are not allowed." that's in 308.2f and 309.2d. That's how you know that WotC had a lawyer type make all those rules. Or at lest someone with a legal background.
Time Spiral is not errata'ed. I think.
I guess you do not want to tell me what your relationship to magic is Condor, I will respect that, but am still very curious.
Ok. I got the isn't discrete bit through my skull.
"At the beginning of this spells resolution, all non-humans creatures become 1/1 humans until end of turn."
Still not well defined (and you won't like the better answer): is that before, or after, the targeting check?
Oh 409.1h, "Partial payments are not allowed."
Doh! - I meant 409.1g. The last "step" of playing. (I just looked at the rule before 409.1i, without reading it.)
That's how you know that WotC had a lawyer type make all those rules.
No, its how you know they didn't. A true legal-type wouldn't have missed the fact that 409.1h modifies 409.1g, and belongs at the next indent-level. Like "409.1g(i)".
Time Spiral is not errata'ed. I think.
It is.
I guess you do not want to tell me what your relationship to magic is Condor, I will respect that, but am still very curious.
I'm just a very knowlegable rules-lawyer. But I have had some influence on the rules and rulings by arguing.
legable rules-lawyer. But I have had some influence on the rules and rulings by arguing.
Hmm.. so you.. yes yes, well that more or less confirms one of my suspicions. (if your trying to lead me to said conciliation, it worked.)
But the any advent needs a starting point. I would think this wording would work. I would think before checking, and this spell has no target checking anyway.
Also "when this spell resolves" but i guess you already shot down that one.
"Whenever this would come into play, or be placed in the graveyard after resolving."
If you really want to give your self a head ack, I made a 179 card draft set. I would love if you looked at it, but I am sure it might hurt you to do so. So i would understand if you do not.
If you were to add a static ability to a spell such as Split Second would you THEN be able to splice it onto a creature? Splice seems to affect only subtypes so "Splice onto Human" would work as both the creature and the tribal spell.
Would this work?
Mongoosentient ()
Tribal Sorcery - Mongoose Cards without manacosts cannot be played.
Mongoosentient is green.
Split Second
Splice onto Mongoose - 1
So splicing it as you play Nimble Mongoose would give it Split Second?
And if Aspect of Mongoose was re-written as a Tribal Enchantment - Mongoose Aura you'd be able to give it split second too?
I only ask because it's donating all the effects of the splicing card to the spliced card including color and split second but it's not trying to resolve anything else.
just a question based on this conversation:
Splice seems to affect only subtypes so "Splice onto Human" would work as both the creature and the tribal spell.
Splice has only been used for subtypes, but the keyword's wording says "type or subtype"
I only ask because it's donating all the effects of the splicing card to the spliced card including color and split second but it's not trying to resolve anything else.
It does not normally splice color, just adds the text box to the spell (so the card would have to have a type setting ability, in its text box, that sets its color for the spell to become that color, like on your card). Splice is a static ability, like morph, so its not effected by split second itself.
OK well what if an enchantment or something had an activated ability?
Tapping Yoke U
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Creature 1U: Tap target creature
Splice onto Creature - 2
Does the creature come into play with "Enchant Creature" and if so how does that affect the creature? Would the creature gain the 1U tapping effect as an activated ability?
SkyShroud 1GG
Legendary Creature-Elf Avatar
As long as you control a forest, if SkyShroud would leave play, instead remove it from the game. Return it to play at end of turn.
I am this forest. I am this place, and you cannot defile me with your presence.
2/1
Nothing 3BB
[NULL]
You may play Nothing at any time you could play a sorcery.
Nothing is a permanent and has power and toughness.
Nothing may can participate in combat as if it were a creature. (Nothing is not a creature and may attack and use tap abilities the turn it comes into play. Lethal damage does not destroy Nothing.)
2/2
Oh, and balanced? Yes, No?
By itself? Fine, I suppose. If ever a second replacement effect was printed that included a delayed triger? Then you get arguments about what happens when both replacements are applied to the same event, which is why this sort of thing just isn't done.
First, it would be "can...as though," not "may" or "as if" (looks like you couldn't decide between one of those options). Second, once it's in play it is a permanent. What's lacking is anything to say that you can play it as a spell(defining when isn't enough, see 212.7a), or that it gets put into play as the final step of resolution.
But what is really wrong is this is an "Un-set" flavored card, not a real Magic card. I can't say anything is specifically wrong with the concept, just that it is wrong.
Nothing 3BB
[NULL]
You may play Nothing, as a spell, at any time you could play a sorcery.
Nothing is a permanent card and has power and toughness.
Nothing can participate in combat as a creature. (Nothing is not a creature and may attack and use tap abilities the turn it comes into play. Lethal damage does not destroy Nothing.)
2/2
Now I had a question could SkyShroud read:
If SkyShroud would leave play, instead remove it from the game until end of turn.
I know it would make some infinite loop, i just wanted to know if it COULD say that and if not why not.
Here I was getting into a debate with some one Here about if these two cards work or not:
If you could let me know, that would be cool.
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Spirit of Battle 4RR
Creature-Spirit
Double Strike
Splice into creatures R
When this creature resolves choose a creature. That creature has first strike until end of turn.
4/4
Valero's Will 2BW
Tribal Sorcery-Human
Splice into human WB
When this spell resolves, all non-humans creatures become 1/1 humans until end of turn.
“We earned our power, you were born into it. I will show you just how undeserving of it you are.” -Magistrate Valero to Lensol
And how about a card
Card U
Instant
Until end of turn you have no maximum hand size.
Second, splicing a non-creature onto a creature is very problematic, although creature on creature* could just use a rules entry.
Card is useless, since it will wear off and then you'll have to discard.
*Usually you pay double for that kind of action, Cotton.
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
314.2 After discarding, the following actions happen simultaneously: all damage is removed from permanents and all "until end of turn" and "this turn" effects end (this game action doesn't use the stack).
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=88801&page=2#19
Did not know the rule (and was making fun of me for not read/knowing the rules) and I know he would not have taken a NON guru's word so I wanted you to say it. Thanks for the ketch with the splice cards, yeah I guess I typed them wrong, I am a bad speller.
The creatures would lose the wording when they left the stack. I just wanted to make sure the ability triggered. Like with "when ~ goes to the graveyard from play."
If Ersatz Gnomes turns a creature spell colorless, the creature it makes will be colorless. I see no reason for it not to apply to text given to it by splice. At the very least, a little bit could be added to the CompRules to ensure that.
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Nope. First off, creatures (which are permanents) don't resolve - spells do. And "resolve" means different things to different kinds of spells, that you are trying to homogenize:
Besides, the abilities would only "work" in play. So, you can't add "spell text" to a pemanent spell. But you could make the trigger condition be "When this card comes into play, if you played it from your hand, ...."
I don't think you can do the same with the "splice onto Human," since it could need be either spell text or permanent text, depending on what it spliced to, and you can't mix them.
"Until end of turn" wears of immediately after the discard, so it works.
Well the double strike will only work in play. Spirit of battle is going to just be changed to this now:
"Spirit of Battle :4mana::symr::symr:
Creature-Spirit
Double Strike
Splice onto creatures R
4/4"
Now that I know it gives out double strike.
Now, normally when I am assume you have not read something, I am wrong. But it seems to me, based on your points, you did not look at the cards that closely, look at Will again:
Valero's Will :2mana::symb::symw:
Tribal Sorcery-Human
Splice into human :symw::symb:
When this spell resolves, all non-humans creatures become 1/1 humans until end of turn.
“We earned our power, you were born into it. I will show you just how undeserving of it you are.” -Magistrate Valero to Lensol
That's a triggered ability that fires when the spell resolves. Both creature spell and sorcery spells resolve differently, but they both resolve.
"Creature spell." A card and the spell that it represents are not the same thing. And the difference is created by "playing" the card, which is why there was a recent discussion in another thread about putting cards directly on the stack, even if the difference wasn't critical to the effect in question.
The "creature" didn't resolve, the "spell" did. The "creature" has the ability at the time it would trigger; it is not a "spell," and your trigger cannot go off.
This is why all CIP triggers that require information about its history as a spell are worded as I suggested. (And before you bring it up, no the creature wasn't "played" either. But effects that look back at the history of an object can see the full history, even when it looked different. The action that triggers the ability has to be what actually happens, and the condition has to properly describe the objects that take part in the action.)
This is why, for example, leaves-play triggers have to "look back" to when the term "creature" was correct. They could trigger from the graveyard if an ability on the graveyard card could call itself a "creature." You are really trying to do the exact same thing, and it doesn't work.
I'm making some assumptions about what it is you think you mean, because it really is complete nonsense. This spell can be cast as a sorcery: Which means you want the text to be "spell text," applied according to rule 212.7b. It's a stetch, I know, but it is an assumption that has to be made to put that text on a sorcery card. It is also the assumption what allows you to use the term "creature spell" in the above trigger (ignoring that it doesn't work). But the assumption also means it can't be treated as text that works in play.
The alternative is to assume it only works in play, which means it is useless as a sorcery. Either way, your card won't work. Spells-text and permanent-text do not mix. Sorry if I didn't explain that in more detail before, but I didn't think it was worth the effort. This is another "design constraint" that you have to deal with.
Because of you, I now know Spirit of Battle is all wrong. I will fix it. I am only talking about Valero's Will now.
You go on to say Well while the creature spell IS resolving, its a spell, not till AFTER it resolves does it become a creature. So when the trigged ability looks back, it sees that the "spell" did resolve. This is a "leaves the stack" ability. When you splice Will into a creature spell and it resolves the trigger needs to "look back" to when the creature was a spell, which is when its triggered.
When Valero's Will is spliced into a creature spell, the text only functions while the creature IS a spell, and that the only time it needs to function to trigger its effect.
P.S. I seems to me, when reading this. That Phage should kill you every-time, since you never played her from your hand, you played something else.
And nothing "happens" while a creature spell "is resolving," except to put it into play. Its text is completely ignored (unless it's a CIP replacement, but that has nothing to do with this issue).
Can't.
Hence my parenthetical comments starting "And before you bring it up..."
502.58a Split second is a static ability that functions only while the spell with split second is on the stack. "Split second" means "As long as this spell is on the stack, players can't play other spells or abilities that aren't mana abilities."
This text HAS TO function while the creature is a spell, and does.
As far as I can tell rule 402.8g says that Will would work when spiced into a creature because it talks about spells/resolving, which only exist/happen on the stack. Feel free to point out what I missed, but as far as I can see, you're wrong. (I am sure I over looked something and your going to tell me what)
<Sigh>.
There are exceptions to nearly every statement you can make about Magic. The key is that something has to make it an exception. What applies to that situation is: That's the general one. There's also the specific one about Split Second that says the ability "functions only while the spell with split second is on the stack."
What I was talking about was abilities that don't fall into an exception. And what I've been trying to get across to you, with double-examples, is that if you make a splice-onto-creature ability that has to work from both a creature and a sorcery, that it has to be an exception for one of those cases but not the other. Which is what makes it impossible to mix spell text with permanent text.
And, even if you think you have contrived to get around such issues, your trigger doesn't work because "when a spell resolves" isn't a discrete event, just like "when a spell is played" isn't one. And the only logical place to put it in the sequence of events that comprise "resolving" is after all of the steps are complete. That is, putting the card into play/graveyard corresponds to step 409.1h in the playing process, and triggering your ability corresponds to 409.1g. The text isn't part of an object on the stack at that time.
One subtle point you may have missed (not your fault at all: it isn't in the rules, but it is obvious once you apply it to a few very specific instances) is that the "resolving spell text" needs to exist separately from the spell itself, since the card can be removed while the spell is resolving. So the "resolving spell text" and other "stack-abilities" of the spell card (e.g., Split Second, "can't be countered," what you are trying to do with a trigger) can't interact with each as you might expect if you don't know this subtle point.
Ah - the most direct examples seem to have errata. No matter - you can still Burning Wish for Shahrazad. And you need some reason not to (try to) apply some abilities of instants and sorceries as part of resolution. Not that "Last Word can't be countered" makes sense during resolution, but why does "Kavu Chameleon can't be countered" apply on the stack while "Karplusan Strider can't be the target of blue or black spells" doesn't?
"At the beginning of this spells resolution, all non-humans creatures become 1/1 humans until end of turn."
Or does this cost troubles because it would be placed on the top of the stack, over a spell that is in the process of resolving?
Oh 409.1h, "Partial payments are not allowed." that's in 308.2f and 309.2d. That's how you know that WotC had a lawyer type make all those rules. Or at lest someone with a legal background.
Time Spiral is not errata'ed. I think.
I guess you do not want to tell me what your relationship to magic is Condor, I will respect that, but am still very curious.
Still not well defined (and you won't like the better answer): is that before, or after, the targeting check?
Doh! - I meant 409.1g. The last "step" of playing. (I just looked at the rule before 409.1i, without reading it.)
No, its how you know they didn't. A true legal-type wouldn't have missed the fact that 409.1h modifies 409.1g, and belongs at the next indent-level. Like "409.1g(i)".
It is.
I'm just a very knowlegable rules-lawyer. But I have had some influence on the rules and rulings by arguing.
But the any advent needs a starting point. I would think this wording would work. I would think before checking, and this spell has no target checking anyway.
Also "when this spell resolves" but i guess you already shot down that one.
"Whenever this would come into play, or be placed in the graveyard after resolving."
If you really want to give your self a head ack, I made a 179 card draft set. I would love if you looked at it, but I am sure it might hurt you to do so. So i would understand if you do not.
If you were to add a static ability to a spell such as Split Second would you THEN be able to splice it onto a creature? Splice seems to affect only subtypes so "Splice onto Human" would work as both the creature and the tribal spell.
Would this work?
Mongoosentient ()
Tribal Sorcery - Mongoose
Cards without manacosts cannot be played.
Mongoosentient is green.
Split Second
Splice onto Mongoose - 1
So splicing it as you play Nimble Mongoose would give it Split Second?
And if Aspect of Mongoose was re-written as a Tribal Enchantment - Mongoose Aura you'd be able to give it split second too?
I only ask because it's donating all the effects of the splicing card to the spliced card including color and split second but it's not trying to resolve anything else.
Would that work?
yes yes It does not normally splice color, just adds the text box to the spell (so the card would have to have a type setting ability, in its text box, that sets its color for the spell to become that color, like on your card). Splice is a static ability, like morph, so its not effected by split second itself.
Tapping Yoke U
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Creature
1U: Tap target creature
Splice onto Creature - 2
Does the creature come into play with "Enchant Creature" and if so how does that affect the creature? Would the creature gain the 1U tapping effect as an activated ability?