SCG Premium Accounts

intreped · 10-08-2007, 01:46 PM

EDIT: (moved to Magic General) Thanks, mods.

I was wondering what people think about taking decklists from a Premium article and posting them here. There were more than a couple of requests in the Standard forums for exactly that, and I saw mixed reactions among the posts.

Is it legal?
Are decklists the property of SCG? What is "property" in this case?

Is it ethical?
Does SCG lose business by someone posting those lists here? Do they "deserve" that business in the first place?

Discuss!

stu55 · 10-08-2007, 01:51 PM

I dont see why this is a problem. Some one somewhere must be working on the same deck list some where. Flores or whoever are not the only deck builders in the world that make good decks. They can just claim that they were working on the same thing and make no mention of the SCG article.

Jank Golem · 10-08-2007, 01:52 PM

Decklists in Premium articles are free to be released to the public, I think you can even look them up in the SCG database. The actual content of the article however is viewable by premium users only.

ShadowBlaze · 10-08-2007, 02:15 PM

I just made an account and tried to look at a premium deck through the deck finder as suggeted.

"To view this deck, you must be a StarCityGames.com Premium member."

So, apparently that doesn't work.

Goatchunx · 10-08-2007, 03:13 PM

Yes, apparently, those decks are "intellectual property," which strikes me as dumb.

Tha Gunslinga · 10-08-2007, 04:44 PM

How is a decklist NOT intellectual property? People do make money selling lists, you know.

Lotus · 10-08-2007, 05:27 PM

I e-mailed SCG this morning asking them if it was okay if we did this. Still awaiting a response.

mondu_the_fat · 10-08-2007, 06:10 PM

Currently recipes (for cooking) cannot be copyrighted. If decklists are the same, then copying them from SCG shouldn't be a problem. I would be extremely surprised, though, if SCG says its ok.

The articles are completely different, as well as any text that shows you how to play the deck (likewise, the instructions in a cookbook are copyrighted). Copying them is most certainly a breach in copyright.

Yare · 10-08-2007, 10:24 PM

Well, I know over on TheManaDrain they post the blurb for the article and then the decklist in the post fairly often, so unless the policy has changed since that time, there isn't any policy against that.

conboy31 · 10-08-2007, 10:41 PM

It is my understanding that the decklists are fair game but all the writing/insight = premium material. This seems odd that a person who is not subscribing cannot see the decklist (giving the illusion that it too is premium), but I believe this to be the case.

Hopefully their response will clear things up.

Cyan · 10-08-2007, 10:45 PM

It's a futile effort to try and stop people from posting the decklists from those articles, because there is no way to determine whether or not they actually are they decklists from the articles. I believe this is why SCG doesn't really care. Half the time the person writing the article didn't make the deck(if it is their deck at all), thus any kind of 'intellectual property' claims because extremely sketchy.

bLatch · 10-09-2007, 09:49 AM

Whether or not it is "futile" has no bearing on whether or not it is "legal."

Case in point: I believe it is Futile for a record company tosay nobody may place their songs for free on a P2P server. I also KNOW that it is illegal.

This is an analagous situation. It may be futile because the deck will get out there eventually, but that does not make it legal for someone to copy it from the article and post it here.

tripeboi · 10-09-2007, 09:58 AM

Being a lawyer I can say a deck list cannot belong to SCG because the cards are the property of WOTC. You can not copy the article and repost it with out consent, but you can repost the actual card list in the deck being the cards are not property of SCG. It would be like Home and Garden sewing someone for having the same plants in there yard as they did in an article they had in a magazine.

bLatch · 10-09-2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripeboi

Being a lawyer I can say a deck list cannot belong to SCG because the cards are the property of WOTC. You can not copy the article and repost it with out consent, but you can repost the actual card list in the deck being the cards are not property of SCG. It would be like Home and Garden sewing someone for having the same plants in there yard as they did in an article they had in a magazine.

True, but lists and compilations of data CAN be under copyright (i.e. a phone book etc.)

The specific card titles are owned by WOTC yes, but the specific organization into a deck consisting of these exact 75 cards is NOT owned by WOTC and could be under copyright.

tripeboi · 10-09-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bLatch

True, but lists and compilations of data CAN be under copyright (i.e. a phone book etc.)

The specific card titles are owned by WOTC yes, but the specific organization into a deck consisting of these exact 75 cards is NOT owned by WOTC and could be under copyright.

It would be impossible to SCG to prove someone stole a list of the 75 best cards for a specific purpose of a deck, i.e. "red deck wins" from the worlds most popular TCG. In the content of a TCG all someone would have to do to change a deck. Would to be add or subtract just ONE card.

SCG CAN NOT copyright a list of cards owned by another company. THEY CAN copyright an article written by them or submitted to them that has a list of cards mentioned in the article. But a specific card deck? No impossible.

10-08-2007, 01:46 PM	#1
intreped tedious monkey work . . . Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,010	SCG Premium Accounts EDIT: (moved to Magic General) Thanks, mods. I was wondering what people think about taking decklists from a Premium article and posting them here. There were more than a couple of requests in the Standard forums for exactly that, and I saw mixed reactions among the posts. Is it legal? Are decklists the property of SCG? What is "property" in this case? Is it ethical? Does SCG lose business by someone posting those lists here? Do they "deserve" that business in the first place? Discuss! Last edited by intreped; 10-08-2007 at 02:57 PM.
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10-08-2007, 02:15 PM	#4
ShadowBlaze Archmage Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY Posts: 953	I just made an account and tried to look at a premium deck through the deck finder as suggeted. "To view this deck, you must be a StarCityGames.com Premium member." So, apparently that doesn't work. __________________
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10-08-2007, 03:13 PM	#5
Goatchunx Level 1 Engineer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 2,081	Yes, apparently, those decks are "intellectual property," which strikes me as dumb. __________________ Gaymers,House Dimir by PurpleD Help has come in the form of a bit of basic algebra. I feel that it'll shed some light on your problem here. Basically: S + T = W ...S in this case stands for 'spam' and the T stands for 'light trolling'. And the W? That stands for 'Warning'. I love math. -- {mikeyG}
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10-08-2007, 05:27 PM	#7
Lotus Bro, do you even cloudshift? Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 2,590	I e-mailed SCG this morning asking them if it was okay if we did this. Still awaiting a response. __________________
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10-08-2007, 10:24 PM	#9
Yare Vintage Zealot MTGS Writer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Astoria, NY Posts: 3,358	Well, I know over on TheManaDrain they post the blurb for the article and then the decklist in the post fairly often, so unless the policy has changed since that time, there isn't any policy against that. __________________ Vintage Adept - TheManaDrain.com Magic Rules Advisor My Latest Article: How Creatures Die Targets \| Triggered Abilities \| Priority and the Stack \| Older Articles
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10-08-2007, 01:51 PM	#2
stu55 Archmage Overlord Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,001	I dont see why this is a problem. Some one somewhere must be working on the same deck list some where. Flores or whoever are not the only deck builders in the world that make good decks. They can just claim that they were working on the same thing and make no mention of the SCG article.
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10-08-2007, 01:52 PM	#3
Jank Golem Wizard Mentor MTGS Writer Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 710	Decklists in Premium articles are free to be released to the public, I think you can even look them up in the SCG database. The actual content of the article however is viewable by premium users only.
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10-08-2007, 06:10 PM	#8
mondu_the_fat is dansen Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 9,976 Blog Entries: 3	Currently recipes (for cooking) cannot be copyrighted. If decklists are the same, then copying them from SCG shouldn't be a problem. I would be extremely surprised, though, if SCG says its ok. The articles are completely different, as well as any text that shows you how to play the deck (likewise, the instructions in a cookbook are copyrighted). Copying them is most certainly a breach in copyright.
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10-08-2007, 10:41 PM	#10
conboy31 Ascended Mage Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 481	It is my understanding that the decklists are fair game but all the writing/insight = premium material. This seems odd that a person who is not subscribing cannot see the decklist (giving the illusion that it too is premium), but I believe this to be the case. Hopefully their response will clear things up.
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10-08-2007, 10:45 PM	#11
Cyan Iso Made Me Do It Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Chandler, AZ Posts: 21,926	It's a futile effort to try and stop people from posting the decklists from those articles, because there is no way to determine whether or not they actually are they decklists from the articles. I believe this is why SCG doesn't really care. Half the time the person writing the article didn't make the deck(if it is their deck at all), thus any kind of 'intellectual property' claims because extremely sketchy.
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10-09-2007, 09:49 AM	#12
bLatch Immortal One Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Trensilor Posts: 7,438	Whether or not it is "futile" has no bearing on whether or not it is "legal." Case in point: I believe it is Futile for a record company tosay nobody may place their songs for free on a P2P server. I also KNOW that it is illegal. This is an analagous situation. It may be futile because the deck will get out there eventually, but that does not make it legal for someone to copy it from the article and post it here.
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10-09-2007, 09:58 AM	#13
tripeboi Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Outa Space Posts: 84	Being a lawyer I can say a deck list cannot belong to SCG because the cards are the property of WOTC. You can not copy the article and repost it with out consent, but you can repost the actual card list in the deck being the cards are not property of SCG. It would be like Home and Garden sewing someone for having the same plants in there yard as they did in an article they had in a magazine.
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