Stop saying they're cute. They're not. Their squished heads are the stupidest things I've ever seen.
Basically, they're the the elephant seals of the Magic multiverse: a few people try to claim their ugliness is endearing, but we all know the truth, that we'd be better without these eyesores.
Eyeblight's Ending should read, "Destroy all Kithkin. Ever."
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
I third that. Every time i see the art, i wish a black censor block was over it. They either look that squised people, or... well any way i say it i will offend some one so yeah, they are fugly.
WOO! More people hat kithkin art! The only kithkin art I don't hate is the galepowder mage - you can't see his fat round tomato shaped head! Anyway, the point of this thread? I like it, but don't see its use.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
With all, put the same thing except with / in front of what type of tags they are (like [/card]) to close them.
Card: [card]
Hybrid: :symub: = order doesn't matter
I like the Galepowder Mage art because it looks like he is riding a pair of bongos with wings. Good times my friend, good times.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"He says he's always loved the work of Beethoven, and often thinks of him as a true O.G" 50 Cent's thoughts on Classical Music Check out the H/W List playa: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=80563 Member of the Syndicate
Syndicate Members:5
My AIM is Satriani744 (shocker, right?;))
It's a great way to get in touch with me for trades, or just chattin'. Just don't stalk me please.
Not a fan of the kithkin art, and really the kithkin in general.
If you're going to introduce an iconic white race, make sure it's interesting. Kithkin, with the possible exception of the concept of thoughtweft, aren't.
Not a fan of the kithkin art, and really the kithkin in general.
If you're going to introduce an iconic white race, make sure it's interesting. Kithkin, with the possible exception of the concept of thoughtweft, aren't.
Well, at least they're better than birds. The problem for me is that they don't fit the military angle of white very well - the idea of hobbit knights still strikes me as idiotic.
Sure most Kithkin pics looks horrible, but there are cards such as Gaddock Teeg which has one of the best arts I've seen for a long time...
What I really don't like though, is the people who love the flame-kin pics.
Flame-kin liking person: Ooooh, I like this pic.
Friend: What? Nova Chaser? It's ok I guess...
Flame-kin liking person: Ok!? Can't you see the fire!?
Friend: Well the rest of the pic isn't really that...
Flame-kin liking person: Who cares! It has fire in it!
Friend: But you can hardly even see the creature...
Flame-kin liking person: Fire I tell you! FIRE!!!
Friend: Yeah yeah, whatever...
I've had that kind of conversation with alot of my friends... I'm more into details and stuff.
I don't know about the fire, but I think most of the flamekin feel pretty dynamic. For a still to convey a sense of motion and action is pretty good. They're not just people on fire, either, which would be boring, they're intelligent and graceful people on fire, which is actually pretty cool.
What's funny is theh uge transition in the appearance of the kithkin from even Time Spiral to Lorwyn. The kithin in Time Spiral appeared less height-challenged and resembled "little people" or nomadic-type folk looking for a place to call their home. In Lorwyn it looks like someone sat on them and walked away with a bad deal.
The art feels rushed. Also I think they chose the wrong "race" to represent in white for Lorwyn. Kithkin NEVER have been a huge race in the Magic world...so why start that now?
'buster
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
The art feels rushed. Also I think they chose the wrong "race" to represent in white for Lorwyn. Kithkin NEVER have been a huge race in the Magic world...so why start that now?
'buster
What would you have suggested? Leonin? Loxodons? Birds again? None of those races would have come even close to fitting into this sets worldview. Humans were out since they would have either a huge impact on non standard formats or would have such a low power level as to be useless.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All the kids who played the blues
Would learn my licks with a bottle neck slide
Yeah, I've been very confused about the direction Kithkin have been going. Take a look at Time Spiral block - every Kithkin looks completely different. If they didn't all have the same type, I'd never know they were supposed to represent the same species. Seriously, take a look at Amrou Kithkin, Amrou Scout, Mistmeadow Skulk, Goldmeadow Lookout, Militia's Pride, Kithkin Mourncaller, Kithkin Daggerdare, Burrenton Forge-Tender. It's not just that their bodies are all different (Skulk and Mourncaller are especially weird), but their clothes all seem to be from completely different settings too. Granted, the TS kithkin are supposed to look that way, but what about Daggerdare and Forge-Tender? The guy being saved by the Daggerdare is wearing a vaguely Chinese hat, and I don't even know what the Forge-Tender is supposed to be with all those tattoos.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Xantcha, Phyrexian Reject
Jodah, Archmage Eternal
Tovolar, Howlpack Alpha
Pivlic, Orzhov Informant
Crixizix, Master Engineer
Feather, Boros Peacekeeper
Marisi Coilbreaker
O-Kagachi
Gix, Phyrexian Praetor
Karn, Father of Machines
Yawgmoth, Father of Machines
Serra, Mother of All Angels
Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools
Leshrac the Nightwalker
Jeska, the Thrice-Touched
Elspeth Returned
Crucius the Mad
Taysir the Infinite
Urza's Head (Unglued!)
Well, at least they're better than birds. The problem for me is that they don't fit the military angle of white very well - the idea of hobbit knights still strikes me as idiotic.
Phil
Actually... Back in my D&D days I actually played a halfling with aspirations of becoming a cavalier Damn cool character... tore around with armour and a lance on the back of a saint bernard.
We, as an audience, can actually sympathize with the elves when they go around on their genocides because other races are ugly.
I really thought I would hate elves forever. However, when they go around killing other races for the sole reason that they're ugly, I cannot help but agree. Kithkin in Lorwyn are hideous.
Duskrider Peregrine bugged the hell out of me when they made a 3/3 bird. It wasn't a humanoid bird like the Avians. It was just a giant bird.
These Kithkin such as Wizened Cenn, their clerics are 2/2s. A human soldier is a 1/1, and these Kithkin have 2/2 clerics? Perhaps Wizened Cenn's strength comes in part from the fact that he originated from Jabba the Hutt's feces.
um... a human CADET is 1/1... a fair chunk of soldiers and knights are 2/2s... it all depends what training they have. Wizened Cenn is old and experienced, and basically nobility.
Remember Mirrodin? Vedalken had NEVER been a race before in the Magic world as well. So that isn't really a good argument.
Vedalken never had a handful or benchmark card to go up against before Mirrodin, so that retort is a bad retort
Kithkin could have been a decent race had they expanded more on them earlier rather than just bombarding us with them. In Mirrodin, Vedalken weren't the primary race. They shared it with Drones, Humans and the odd Illusion. They were present, but not a heavy centric theme like Kithkin are in Lorwyn.
Quote from Shinriko »
What would you have suggested?
Actually, I would have suggested Gargoyles. They've been around since...well...Magic's inaugeration and they've managed to build themselves as an iconic race in white. Their presence really increased in Ravnica but it's been around way before that. Gargoyles would have been a much better option to build around rather than totally go nuts with a race that, before Time Spiral, has only had two cards (one creature and one aura) with Kithkins and their overall functionality.
Birds have never been a white-centric race. Since Homelands they used to be falcons but now they;ve changed it to include Falcons as a bird. Therefore Birds have been in either white or blue, with the one exception.
I think it's too early to introduce overflood us with Kithkin as they haven't really established themselves as a quality white-aligned race worthy of a tribal theme.
As for Vedalken, they've established themselves as a blue race with a unique ability and has potential to go further. Although Merfolk have always been around and will always be seen as blue's iconic race, no matter how much they push Cephalids or Vedalken otherwise.
'buster
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
If so, flavorwise, it should have been a 1/1 and should have read: Kithkin creatures you control get +1/+1.
But it doesn't. It's just a 2/2 cleric that cares about others because it's powerful enough himself(herself?) already
There was an Ask Wizards question about this before. They don't do that purely due to memory issues. The only exception that comes to mind from the top of my head is Slivers (Sinew and Muscle mainly)
Vedalken never had a handful or benchmark card to go up against before Mirrodin, so that retort is a bad retort
Kithkin could have been a decent race had they expanded more on them earlier rather than just bombarding us with them. In Mirrodin, Vedalken weren't the primary race. They shared it with Drones, Humans and the odd Illusion. They were present, but not a heavy centric theme like Kithkin are in Lorwyn.
They did "expand more on them earlier". There were 4 Kithkin in Time Spiral block. By Aaron Forsythe's admission, this was on purpose. The reason we are "bombarded" with them now is that the set is tribal, which requires a heavy concentration of races, otherwise the set doesn't work.
Actually, I would have suggested Gargoyles. They've been around since...well...Magic's inaugeration and they've managed to build themselves as an iconic race in white. Their presence really increased in Ravnica but it's been around way before that. Gargoyles would have been a much better option to build around rather than totally go nuts with a race that, before Time Spiral, has only had two cards (one creature and one aura) with Kithkins and their overall functionality.
The traditional gargoyle is inactive during the daytime. This would kind of not work in a world set in eternal midsummer. Besides which, Gargoyles are gothic and creepy, they don't really fit the setting (especially not in white).
Birds have never been a white-centric race. Since Homelands they used to be falcons but now they;ve changed it to include Falcons as a bird. Therefore Birds have been in either white or blue, with the one exception.
The Aven introduced in Odyssey block were certainly intended to be an iconic white race (with some bleed into blue). This was a rewriting of the general haphazard placement of birds in random colors. Aven also were only technically birds due to the grouping of creature types.
As for Vedalken, they've established themselves as a blue race with a unique ability and has potential to go further. Although Merfolk have always been around and will always be seen as blue's iconic race, no matter how much they push Cephalids or Vedalken otherwise.
'buster
What unique ability do Vedalken have? Even the Ravnican and Mirrodin Vedalken differ significantly. It's not a stretch to have Dominarian and Lorwyn Kithkin differing as well (especially given how much variance there is between Goblins inter-plane). The main difference is that Kithkin are more humanoid than Goblins are, and we're hardwired to reject things that are similar to being human but are non-human. It's a very basic response.
I think it's too early to introduce overflood us with Kithkin as they haven't really established themselves as a quality white-aligned race worthy of a tribal theme.
I say it's about time white got it's own "iconic" race other than humans. Every other colour has at least one non-human race it's identified with except for white.
I'm not sure how Gargoyles would fit in the Lorwyn universe since they live mostly in large city areas. I could see them fitting in a more gothic or city style set, but I don't think they go with the Lorwyn storybook fantasy setting very well.
They did "expand more on them earlier". There were 4 Kithkin in Time Spiral block. By Aaron Forsythe's admission, this was on purpose. The reason we are "bombarded" with them now is that the set is tribal, which requires a heavy concentration of races, otherwise the set doesn't work.
.
Wow. Four extra cards gives us permission to over-extend a race that has yet to establish itself as a race in white? Ok, so in that case we can expect more Antelopes and Anteaters in Shadowmoor? There's only two, but by that mindset it gives us a definite reason to totally go nuts on the race even though there are no set parametres that sets themselves up as an iconic white race.
Birds were meant to be the race for white (and blue) in Odyssey. But then all of a sudden they changed their minds and went with Clerics in Onslaught through to Scourge.
As for Loxodon, elephants have been around for a long time and have numerous representatives to have given them that presence in Mirrodin. Foxes in Kamigawa was another wonky choice for a white race that seemed totally overdone and poorly planned out.
Kithkin are fine and dandy and all, but they chose a really inopportune time to really introduce them to us. Especially after the one's we've seen in Time Spiral *the set, not the block* as they're reminiscent of the original Kithkin. The ones in Lorwyn make me feel like I should be seeing Dorothy and Toto walking down the Yellow Brick Road hand-in-hand with the Munckins (Kithkin).
Kithkin from Time Spiral were nomads, rebels and fierce. They also didn't have height problems nor did they seem squished due to high gravity restraining their growth.
Now that I think about it, Rebels seem to be the best bet for white. Yes, they were really done over and again in Mercadian Masques and Time Spiral, but they've managed to establish themselves as a class/race with tonnes of potential outside of those two blocks. The Kithkin appear to be defiant in nature; thus the rebel theme would have fit them if they went that route. Had they put Kithkin in with the way they did in Time Spiral (itself) with a Rebel-esque functioning and some with evasion abilities, power/toughness interractions and what not, then that would have been great. But in their current design for Lorwyn, they don't fit at all
'buster
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Maybe they didn't want to fall into the problem with halflings in D&D... some of the artists draw some seriously hot Halfling chicks... which considering their comparetive size against a human, raises some awkward questions.
EDIT: what the heck do the kithkin have to rebel against in lorwyn? They're relatively happy.
.
Kithkin from Time Spiral were nomads, rebels and fierce. They also didn't have height problems nor did they seem squished due to high gravity restraining their growth.
That's because those are not Lorywn Kithkin, they're Amrou Kithkin. Just like Elves or Goblins can have some differences across different planes (ie Mogg, Akki, Boggarts, etc) so can Kithkin.
Gargoyles would be cool as a primary white race but not on this happy go lucky plane. There is also the issue that a flying race that is preceived as being hardy would be a bit too high on the manna curve for white for it to serve as a primary race.
As for Rebels? They are a class not a race, and they wanted to do races only this set. I would also be a bit hesitant about adding a Harbringer to the rebel search engine.
That being said I have no great love of Kithkin either and wish that another choice had been evident to the dev team.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All the kids who played the blues
Would learn my licks with a bottle neck slide
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Basically, they're the the elephant seals of the Magic multiverse: a few people try to claim their ugliness is endearing, but we all know the truth, that we'd be better without these eyesores.
Eyeblight's Ending should read, "Destroy all Kithkin. Ever."
That is all.
Guildmaster Jarad
although there are some good ones out there.
All in all though: Ewwwww....
Card: [card]
Hybrid: :symub: = order doesn't matter
Spoiler: [spoiler]
Deck: [deck]
Check out the H/W List playa:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=80563
Member of the Syndicate
Syndicate Members:5
My AIM is Satriani744 (shocker, right?;))
It's a great way to get in touch with me for trades, or just chattin'. Just don't stalk me please.
If you're going to introduce an iconic white race, make sure it's interesting. Kithkin, with the possible exception of the concept of thoughtweft, aren't.
Well, at least they're better than birds. The problem for me is that they don't fit the military angle of white very well - the idea of hobbit knights still strikes me as idiotic.
Phil
I don't know about the fire, but I think most of the flamekin feel pretty dynamic. For a still to convey a sense of motion and action is pretty good. They're not just people on fire, either, which would be boring, they're intelligent and graceful people on fire, which is actually pretty cool.
mtg - satire - photoshoppery - strategy - arcade - PMO - chat
The art feels rushed. Also I think they chose the wrong "race" to represent in white for Lorwyn. Kithkin NEVER have been a huge race in the Magic world...so why start that now?
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
What would you have suggested? Leonin? Loxodons? Birds again? None of those races would have come even close to fitting into this sets worldview. Humans were out since they would have either a huge impact on non standard formats or would have such a low power level as to be useless.
Would learn my licks with a bottle neck slide
Xantcha, Phyrexian Reject
Jodah, Archmage Eternal
Tovolar, Howlpack Alpha
Pivlic, Orzhov Informant
Crixizix, Master Engineer
Feather, Boros Peacekeeper
Marisi Coilbreaker
O-Kagachi
Gix, Phyrexian Praetor
Karn, Father of Machines
Yawgmoth, Father of Machines
Serra, Mother of All Angels
Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools
Leshrac the Nightwalker
Jeska, the Thrice-Touched
Elspeth Returned
Crucius the Mad
Taysir the Infinite
Urza's Head (Unglued!)
Actually... Back in my D&D days I actually played a halfling with aspirations of becoming a cavalier Damn cool character... tore around with armour and a lance on the back of a saint bernard.
I really thought I would hate elves forever. However, when they go around killing other races for the sole reason that they're ugly, I cannot help but agree. Kithkin in Lorwyn are hideous.
Duskrider Peregrine bugged the hell out of me when they made a 3/3 bird. It wasn't a humanoid bird like the Avians. It was just a giant bird.
These Kithkin such as Wizened Cenn, their clerics are 2/2s. A human soldier is a 1/1, and these Kithkin have 2/2 clerics? Perhaps Wizened Cenn's strength comes in part from the fact that he originated from Jabba the Hutt's feces.
//I've nothing to complain about kithkin looks.
Vedalken never had a handful or benchmark card to go up against before Mirrodin, so that retort is a bad retort
Kithkin could have been a decent race had they expanded more on them earlier rather than just bombarding us with them. In Mirrodin, Vedalken weren't the primary race. They shared it with Drones, Humans and the odd Illusion. They were present, but not a heavy centric theme like Kithkin are in Lorwyn.
Actually, I would have suggested Gargoyles. They've been around since...well...Magic's inaugeration and they've managed to build themselves as an iconic race in white. Their presence really increased in Ravnica but it's been around way before that. Gargoyles would have been a much better option to build around rather than totally go nuts with a race that, before Time Spiral, has only had two cards (one creature and one aura) with Kithkins and their overall functionality.
Birds have never been a white-centric race. Since Homelands they used to be falcons but now they;ve changed it to include Falcons as a bird. Therefore Birds have been in either white or blue, with the one exception.
I think it's too early to
introduceoverflood us with Kithkin as they haven't really established themselves as a quality white-aligned race worthy of a tribal theme.As for Vedalken, they've established themselves as a blue race with a unique ability and has potential to go further. Although Merfolk have always been around and will always be seen as blue's iconic race, no matter how much they push Cephalids or Vedalken otherwise.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
There was an Ask Wizards question about this before. They don't do that purely due to memory issues. The only exception that comes to mind from the top of my head is Slivers (Sinew and Muscle mainly)
They did "expand more on them earlier". There were 4 Kithkin in Time Spiral block. By Aaron Forsythe's admission, this was on purpose. The reason we are "bombarded" with them now is that the set is tribal, which requires a heavy concentration of races, otherwise the set doesn't work.
The traditional gargoyle is inactive during the daytime. This would kind of not work in a world set in eternal midsummer. Besides which, Gargoyles are gothic and creepy, they don't really fit the setting (especially not in white).
The Aven introduced in Odyssey block were certainly intended to be an iconic white race (with some bleed into blue). This was a rewriting of the general haphazard placement of birds in random colors. Aven also were only technically birds due to the grouping of creature types.
What unique ability do Vedalken have? Even the Ravnican and Mirrodin Vedalken differ significantly. It's not a stretch to have Dominarian and Lorwyn Kithkin differing as well (especially given how much variance there is between Goblins inter-plane). The main difference is that Kithkin are more humanoid than Goblins are, and we're hardwired to reject things that are similar to being human but are non-human. It's a very basic response.
-E
I say it's about time white got it's own "iconic" race other than humans. Every other colour has at least one non-human race it's identified with except for white.
I'm not sure how Gargoyles would fit in the Lorwyn universe since they live mostly in large city areas. I could see them fitting in a more gothic or city style set, but I don't think they go with the Lorwyn storybook fantasy setting very well.
Wow. Four extra cards gives us permission to over-extend a race that has yet to establish itself as a race in white? Ok, so in that case we can expect more Antelopes and Anteaters in Shadowmoor? There's only two, but by that mindset it gives us a definite reason to totally go nuts on the race even though there are no set parametres that sets themselves up as an iconic white race.
Birds were meant to be the race for white (and blue) in Odyssey. But then all of a sudden they changed their minds and went with Clerics in Onslaught through to Scourge.
As for Loxodon, elephants have been around for a long time and have numerous representatives to have given them that presence in Mirrodin. Foxes in Kamigawa was another wonky choice for a white race that seemed totally overdone and poorly planned out.
Kithkin are fine and dandy and all, but they chose a really inopportune time to really introduce them to us. Especially after the one's we've seen in Time Spiral *the set, not the block* as they're reminiscent of the original Kithkin. The ones in Lorwyn make me feel like I should be seeing Dorothy and Toto walking down the Yellow Brick Road hand-in-hand with the Munckins (Kithkin).
Kithkin from Time Spiral were nomads, rebels and fierce. They also didn't have height problems nor did they seem squished due to high gravity restraining their growth.
Now that I think about it, Rebels seem to be the best bet for white. Yes, they were really done over and again in Mercadian Masques and Time Spiral, but they've managed to establish themselves as a class/race with tonnes of potential outside of those two blocks. The Kithkin appear to be defiant in nature; thus the rebel theme would have fit them if they went that route. Had they put Kithkin in with the way they did in Time Spiral (itself) with a Rebel-esque functioning and some with evasion abilities, power/toughness interractions and what not, then that would have been great. But in their current design for Lorwyn, they don't fit at all
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
EDIT: what the heck do the kithkin have to rebel against in lorwyn? They're relatively happy.
That's because those are not Lorywn Kithkin, they're Amrou Kithkin. Just like Elves or Goblins can have some differences across different planes (ie Mogg, Akki, Boggarts, etc) so can Kithkin.
As for Rebels? They are a class not a race, and they wanted to do races only this set. I would also be a bit hesitant about adding a Harbringer to the rebel search engine.
That being said I have no great love of Kithkin either and wish that another choice had been evident to the dev team.
Would learn my licks with a bottle neck slide